Better Rallying

  • Thread starter Thread starter drift501
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Being a rally enthusiast (went to all rallies I can, being in Denmark and watching WRC since 2005) I can say the GT5 rally was actually the closest to rally since GT2 and the closest of all, despite the slow AI, lack of different tyres to provide a challenge, overly wide roads and invisible walls. The problem is PD failed to make it reach out to most people by only putting it in the special events that people don't care about (I have no proof though I doubt many have done them). When people don't have any idea about rallying they just figure it to be a normal race (rallycross) which has since become the general assuming of rally online in GT5.

The points in which PD could improve rally is:

- Different tyres. Gravel tyres ain't just gravel tyres. I could go on about this.
- Improved AI. Could be quite nice if they could analyse data from real top level drivers, past and present, and code that as rally AI. Who said something about challenge?
- Last but not least, make it a championship on par with the circuit races. Like I said, people don't care about special events. If they make it part of the general A-Spec, people certainly would become more familiar with the sport that's too hard to handle for F1 drivers (Kubica, partly Raikkonen, and I seem to remember Loeb taking Schumi for a ride on a stage and having to stop halfway to allow Schumi to relax)
 
As much as I would like this, rally racing hasn't really been the main focus for the series. Sure they have gone a long way to integrate rally simulations and a fine job they have been doing. It's sadly a thing I don't really see being done, unless if they collaborated with codemasters and fixed the licensing issues with the f1 models too. But the problem is there's always a bigger picture. There's always a budget. Trying to balance processing power/limits with the licenses to "use" rally models and tracks are quite possibly the only things that limit games in general.
 
MrMelancholy15
Sorry for not fully explaining. My Sanctioning Body (World Motorsports Association) organizes semi-professional rally events on GT5. We run stages, we run with damage repair time... We make it as close to the real thing as possible...
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Ahh, cheers for that - now I'm with you. Great idea and sounds like a lot of fun.

I agree that organising things for members from all around the globe to participate in an online event can be a pain.
 
Yesterday for my birthday I received one car that I didn´t have yet...surprisingly "the game knows" (lol) that I like rally because they gave me a Ford RS200 Rally car from 1985 (my year of birth)...so the first thing I did was to buy dirt tyres and try it out at Toscana.

I really like Rally in the game but it feels so unfinished. The FFB is great but it needs some more details in the physics and suspensions. Still for me after RBR the "feeling" that Rally in GT5 gave to me is pretty "realistic" at some point. Not even close to RBR but again FOR ME, better than Dirt series or any other Rally game.

WRC the game, now has some new physics made by ECSimracing which are great, but still not as good as it should be.

PD needs to work in the tyre model (mostly when the tyre is in contact with the surface, it is like being on ice all the time no matter which type), and suspensions (more reactive). Then the FFB.

Add tons of events like the ones in GT4 but with more tracks/roads variations and hillclimb. That will be great.
 
I would love to see the full Dakar Rally in GT6. THAT would be fun but I know it is highly unlikely
 
DiRT styled tracks, vehicles, crashes, weather, effects (water puddles, mud, splashes, debris, etc), and terrain. And less dirt plumes/clouds and smoke in general.
 
SZRT Ice
And less dirt plumes/clouds and smoke in general.
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Actually, while I've got the links handy:

8357200550_b625479f0b_b.jpg


This shows a normal rally car, on a normal rally stage. I was the photographer that took this photo, so... I can attest to the legitimacy.

There's next to no dirt plumes on wet gravel (like, the kind that was snowed on a few days earlier,) but, sandy/dusty gravel, like in Spain... It actually produces a bigger plume than in GT5; GT5's dirt plumes/clouds are horribly wrong, you're right. Interesting to think of that.

Edit:

8357199710_c21d015824_k.jpg


That's the most "plume/cloud" you'll ever see from wet gravel.
 
MrMelancholy15
Actually, while I've got the links handy:

There's next to no dirt plumes on wet gravel (like, the kind that was snowed on a few days earlier,) but, sandy/dusty gravel, like in Spain... It actually produces a bigger plume than in GT5; GT5's dirt plumes/clouds are horribly wrong, you're right. Interesting to think of that.

That's the most "plume/cloud" you'll ever see from wet gravel.
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If you've ever tried racing in a group online in a Rally course, or having a tandem drift session, you'd know that GT5's plumes/smoke are a bit excessive in both span and density. Thanks for backing me with your examples.
 
I just hate the 'fast boiling kettle' look to the plumes for wet tarmac, snow and dirt - like it's been speeded up.

Good point MrMelancholy about the different levels of plumes on different surfaces. It was one thing that got me interested in Forza Horizon the mention of sixty-three road surface types for the off-road portion. If that actually happened though, I don't know as I didn't get the game - I can't really get a console, not for just one game.
 
My biggest problem with rallying in gt5 is that tracks are way too wide and the pace notes are read way off.. The locations they have are good but the tracks need to deform like motorstorm effect. And why was there no option to make our own point to point. Rally tracks
 
R34EVO9
My biggest problem with rallying in gt5 is that tracks are way too wide and the pace notes are read way off..
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Put your track width to -5 in Course Creator on Liège. You won't say that for long. :lol: I promise you, it's good fun trying to squeeze every tenth of a second out of a track that thin.

The real problem is the lack of elevation change; we get like three jumps, in all of GT5, and then we get Eiger Nordwand K Trail; the place with the near-vertical drop... It just feels wrong.
 
MrMelancholy15
Put your track width to -5 in Course Creator on Liège. You won't say that for long. :lol: I promise you, it's good fun trying to squeeze every tenth of a second out of a track that thin.

The real problem is the lack of elevation change; we get like three jumps, in all of GT5, and then we get Eiger Nordwand K Trail; the place with the near-vertical drop... It just feels wrong.
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ohh I know that im sorry I didn't specify but o ment the point to point tracks .. I don't really consider circuit race on dirt rallying because im not racing someoens time its more like rallycross to me. But on another note i agree with what u said about lack of elevation changes or the weird elevation changes like the k trail
 
R34EVO9
ohh I know that im sorry I didn't specify but o ment the point to point tracks .. I don't really consider circuit race on dirt rallying because im not racing someoens time its more like rallycross to me. But on another note i agree with what u said about lack of elevation changes or the weird elevation changes like the k trail
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We don't run circuit racing, we run point-to-point stages, made from the circuits.
 
I would like better rallying to.
No more circuit rallying but just some realistic point to point rallying.
And drop the stupid waiting in line!
Yes, it's realistic but so boring
 
R34EVO9
My biggest problem with rallying in gt5 is that tracks are way too wide and the pace notes are read way off.. The locations they have are good but the tracks need to deform like motorstorm effect. And why was there no option to make our own point to point. Rally tracks
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It will be fantastic if PD adds HAVOK physics to their graphics engine. It will improve lots of aspects, mostly with the terrain in contact with surface, deformation of terrain, tyre deformation, suspensions...etc.

This is a demo of what Havok does...also this was used in MotorStorm games:



By the way I have this on my PC too. It is called "Spin Tires-Level Up 2011 demo". Free.
 
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At -5 road width on Liege it's loads of fun. I did have quite a few good tracks before losing my game save last year. I managed to get some good elevation changes in there too but it took a fair amount of cycling through the generated versions and testing them to find these.
 
I do want more rally stages and maybe a more challenging rally challenges. I love rally, but mainly I tune my own cars for rally just for fun, which is why I want more rally stages rather than any of the other things talked about. And the thing about traffic coming at you, sounds a little Need for Speedish to me. Not really a fit for Gran Turismo.
 
Just got an idea, and I figured creating a new thread would be unnecessary. Here goes:

Have a rally mode added to the track selection screen. This means the room host will get to place a number of start/finish points on the track. Time will only count between start and finish and going from one "stage" to another the car will autodrive and lineup similar to the special events start. To make it even more realistic the game will also recognize at which seconds the cars will start. In the special event it's about random, but here the cars would start say every 30 seconds with the 3-2-1-go and first by then you take control again.

How does that sound?
 
rallymorten
Just got an idea, and I figured creating a new thread would be unnecessary. Here goes:

Have a rally mode added to the track selection screen. This means the room host will get to place a number of start/finish points on the track. Time will only count between start and finish and going from one "stage" to another the car will autodrive and lineup similar to the special events start. To make it even more realistic the game will also recognize at which seconds the cars will start. In the special event it's about random, but here the cars would start say every 30 seconds with the 3-2-1-go and first by then you take control again.

How does that sound?
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I like this idea. This could also extend further than just rallying because you could do something like the Mercedes special event does on the Nurburgring. This way if you split up the track into sections you could learn one part of the track at a time.
 
drift501
I like this idea. This could also extend further than just rallying because you could do something like the Mercedes special event does on the Nurburgring. This way if you split up the track into sections you could learn one part of the track at a time.
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And you can also add in the ability to compete with other players for the best time on one sector of a course and have competitive turn based or heat based sector time attacks.
 
I've noticed that both in GT5 and GT6 Rally racing is not very popular, there isn't even a thread for it, like the drag, and drifting community. Is this because there aren't too many WRC cars or is it the lack of rally tracks. Why is this? I'd really like to know!
 
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I love the rally cars and enjoy doing the dirt and snow tracks but it's not rallying.

No real variation in surface on any one track. Would love some rally cross tracks and some point to point proper rally tracks, mixed gravel and tarmac etc.

I can understand the lack of interest in GT due to the heavy tarmac bias of cars and tracks.
 
I think the lack of rallying circuits is the reason. We only got Toscana, Chamonix, and Eiger Norwand as our current-gen off road circuits. With GT5 we also have Liege and Alaska, however with a variant-lacking course maker generator, all those tracks seem dull for any good rally action.

If GT6's course maker is improved, and they have environment themes that are suitable for off-road conditions, we can see more and better tracks that way. However course maker has no indicator when it's coming to GT6, so we might have to rely on dedicated DLC off-road courses in the meantime.

Interestingly GT6's newest cars are Pikes Peak legends, hopefully hinting the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb route can be driven in the game.

Admittedly I personally think the off-road physics are strange. Take a rally car around Eiger Nordwand and you can't contain any grip with the dirt tires, even with TCS turned off, however driving on snow seems the closest to real life physics you'd expect on rally cars in snow. Perhaps the new tire physics have not taken full effect on dirt courses.

Or maybe it's just me.
 
I remember jumping for joy when I saw the first GT5 trailers and it showed WRC cars! But was very disasspointed when I saw there wasn't much content. There was the Seb Loeb challenges and it ended there. Not many cars too! Only a handful of them are Premium too. Right now I am waiting for a next gen version of the DiRT series. My hopes lie there...
 
I loved the dirt circuits in GT2 and GT3, it at least gave the rally cars and dirt tires a reason to be in the game; and a couple of the tracks did have some paved sections (the Tahiti courses come to mind). More rallycross than pure rally, but still lots of fun. Did any of you guys put dirt tires on the GT40 MkI in GT2 and go play around in the gravel?
 

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