BMW 120d

[T13R]

You people don't seem to understand, or maybe you will never understand that Gran Turismo started off as a racing game where you had a chance to actually drive your own car, or other cars you normally see on the streets on a race track. So having diesel powered cars is more than normal. If you don't think its normal, just don't play GT4 when it comes out, and please stop posting useless junk.

 

[911_gt3_rs]

I think that hyaving a diesel in the game is good, it is at least one extra car and the more cars the better is what i say. for worried about it being too slow theres going to be much slower cars in the game such as the original VW Beetle and other historic cars.

 

[Neuromancer]

Diesels typiclly have great torque that allows great 0-60 times than your typical petrol. So a low horsepower is well compensated by the high torque. The Golf TDI is a great example, go to vwvortex.com and anyone there will tell you to buy a TDI over a stock GL any day. That extra torque makes a huge difference when your at a light. the 100-110hp TDI will own the GL (120hp) any day of the week.

I'm excited about the 120d mostly because its going to be the only way the US will be able to experience a rear wheel drive compact car and the diesel is just a bonus. The 120d is supposed to be debuted in Geneva in September so its awesome that we'll be able to experience it in GT4 in late nov-dec. I'm just stoked PD got so many great BMWs in the game. That GT-R M3 is begging to be driven hard.

So far I'm looking forward to M5 Concept, S6, E55.

 

[Razo]

Quite a few anti-diesel posts, many of which are absolute rubbish.

Diesel cars have come a long way since the oil burners available 20 years ago. At that time, diesels were generally slow, and noisy.

Today, diesels haven't changed much, but they've improved greatly. Torque has always been an advantage for diesels when it come to towing. Now, today's diesels are faster than they were 20 years ago and, in some cases, they're on a par with their petrol counterparts.

Diesels were always popular with those who required torque and low fuel consumption, now they're catchiing up with petrols on speed, and noise too. Diesels today may sound the same as they did in the '80s (like delivery vans and tractors), but there's less of the noise to be heard.

This isn't just an opinion grabbed off motoring journalists. I'm currently learning to drive in a Toyota Yaris (Vitz/Echo) 1.4 diesel. It's no sports car in performance terms (0-60MPH in 12.9 secs), but it's adequate. The engine noise isn't too noticeable, so much so that you'd probably have to look at the badge to discover that it's a diesel.

Having looked at performance stats for the BMW 120D, I'm very impressed. It has the sort of performance that you'd expect from a hot hatch. This simply shows that diesels have come a very long way indeed.

 

[kinigitt]

Diesels are also quite competent in autocross events and others centered around small, tight tracks with short straights (motorsports land).

 

[revaddict]

Originally posted by Famine
Except that diesel is 1p per litre more expensive than 95RON Unleaded.

Way to generalise, geni-ass.

maybe you should try getting off that little island of yours and see how much diesel costs in relation to gasoline. geni-ass!

 

[Dev_Zero]

My dad drives a Golf IV TDI (all red) It has over 150 hp and a rediculous amount of torque. It's faster then most petrol cars. You should see the faces of the punks with their 1.6> 16v hatches who are left standing in front of the stopping lights.

 

[35mm]

Originally posted by Dev_Zero
My dad drives a Golf IV TDI (all red) It has over 150 hp and a rediculous amount of torque. It's faster then most petrol cars. You should see the faces of the punks with their 1.6> 16v hatches who are left standing in front of the stopping lights.

Please stop this nonsense, ok?

 

[Dave A]

The fact is, some diesels are better performers that the petrol equivelent's. diesel's generally have much higher toque but lower Bhp, some like the 120D have higher bhp as well as torque.

 

[35mm]

live4speed, but what is "equivelent"?

The turbo has to come into equation, you see?

And I'm sure you know how much hp you can easilly get from a 2.0 litre engine.

BMW itself made a 2.0 litre NA engine with more power than that 120d!
And that was some years ago.

 

[Dave A]

The petrol version that's priced at the similar level and has a similar size engine ect. Even if it's only got higher power due to a turbo, it still doesn't stop it from having much more torque, and pulling a hell of a lot better.

 

[Martinmaxx]

Both diesel and gasoline engines are good in their own ways. Turbo diesels are better performers in city driving due to a very high pulling power (torque) at very low revs. Equivalent gasoline engines (even turbocharged) cannot match that low end grunt. A good example is the Golf GTI 1.8 turbo vs Golf GTI Diesel PD 150hp. Even the 180hp gasoline turbo engine has much less torque that the 150hp turbo diesel.

When it comes to track racing, it is a whole different story, as the equivalent gasoline engined cars are generally much lighter at the front wheels than their diesel counterparts, thus helping handling and reducing understeer. Also, the torque at low rpms is not an adavantage under this conditions, as much higher revs are used and on those conditions, gasoline engines are more efficient. Diesels literally go "out of breath" at higher rpms.

P/S : For your info, I own a BMW 330Ci and have thoroughly tested a 330d, which no one can deny are equivalent cars (due to their similar power and price).

 

[Martinmaxx]

By the way, don´t you think that including a petrol and diesel version of the same car (120i and 120d) is suggesting a fuel consumption element for GT4? Thanks to their lower consumption, diesel engined cars are very popular on endurace racing.

BMW even won the Nürburgring 24 hour race with a diesel engined E36 320 touring car some years ago.

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by revaddict
maybe you should try getting off that little island of yours and see how much diesel costs in relation to gasoline. geni-ass!

The "little island" (9th largest island on Earth) is actually IN Europe, so your assertion that "europeans [...] are too cheap and compromise their driving experience for 20cents a litre less" is false. Oh, and of the 300 million population of the European Union, 20 percent of them are Brits - so regardless of your claims, 20 per cent of European drivers pay MORE for diesel than petrol. I'd estimate that less than 30% of cars sold in the UK, and less than 40% in the EU, are derv-burners - but no you must be right that we all drive diesels.

Generalisations are ALL wrong. Including that one.

 

[Dave A]

The one in question was very wrong.

 

[Eagle]

Sigh.

Who cares? There's another car in the game? Great. It uses a different type of fuel does it? My god.

On a side note petrol vs diesel here is in the manner of 97c/L for petrol vs 101c/L for diesel. As you'd expect, it fluctuates a lot, but the difference is rarely more than 4-5 cents, and occasionaly diesel is actually cheaper. That's collusion for you.

 

[Schrodes]

On a side note petrol vs diesel here is in the manner of 97c/L for petrol vs 101c/L for diesel. As you'd expect, it fluctuates a lot, but the difference is rarely more than 4-5 cents, and occasionaly diesel is actually cheaper.

Diesel used to be far cheaper than petrol not too long ago, but the truckies went on strike over the tax included in their rego and insurance, so the government put more tax on diesel. There is more to the increase in diesel prices than that but that's part of it.
We have bugger all diesel cars in Australia (1st largest island on earth. Population of 19million or thereabouts. Widespread urban areas. Long distances to travel). The trucks, tractors and diesel four wheel drives are the main consumers of diesel here. The closest thing to a diesel car I have driven is a 2.5t truck. When it is empty, it's pretty quick to 60kph for what it is although the gears are very close. When it's loaded it does 0-100kph in about ten minutes unless you are facing downhill!

 

[Eagle]

Diesel 4WDs aren't bad, I've driven one or two of those, but not in the most ideal conditions. I think we broke 20 million people back in March or so as well. Go Australia.

 

[P2C]

Putting this new 120D into GT4 is only a way for BMW to advertise it's new car. And this is what GT is becoming now..

This is not a sport car and should not be in GT4... that's all.

Diesel car will never give the same feelings a normal sport car provide. If you do not agree, this is your problem guys...

when I see some Golf GTI with tdi engine inside I find that stupid... if GTI means something for you, you should agree. just a way to remember old people that they used to have a real GTi .. but now it's better to have a compfortable and few consuming car...

I just hope GT4 sound will be good enough to render the crap diesel engine noise... and PD will have to improve it's graphics to be able to show us dark clouds exhausting from this great race car !!!!

I'm really not happy with this in fact...

 

[Famine]

Greenland is the largest island. Australia is classified as a "Continental Land Mass" - you may as well say that Eurasia/Africa is the largest island on Earth.

And I agree with Eagle. Although I think the BMW 1 series is almost the crappest car of the modern automotive era - and two of them is practically insulting.

 

[l33tc4k30fd00m]

Originally posted by P2C
Putting this new 120D into GT4 is only a way for BMW to advertise it's new car. And this is what GT is becoming now..

This is not a sport car and should not be in GT4... that's all.

Diesel car will never give the same feelings a normal sport car provide. If you do not agree, this is your problem guys...

when I see some Golf GTI with tdi engine inside I find that stupid... if GTI means something for you, you should agree. just a way to remember old people that they used to have a real GTi .. but now it's better to have a compfortable and few consuming car...

I just hope GT4 sound will be good enough to render the crap diesel engine noise... and PD will have to improve it's graphics to be able to show us dark clouds exhausting from this great race car !!!!

I'm really not happy with this in fact...

*putters past in his Midget II*

Don't mind me.

 

[Schrodes]

Greenland is the largest island. Australia is classified as a "Continental Land Mass" - you may as well say that Eurasia/Africa is the largest island on Earth.

It has actually been classified as the largest island and the smallest continent.

MAJOR ISLANDS (by size) locator map
Australia, (7,617.930 sq km) is widely considered part of a continental landmass, not officially an island. But without doubt it is the largest island on the planet, and when combined with Oceania, the smallest continent on Earth.
Greenland (2,175,600 sq km)
New Guinea (792,500 sq km)
Borneo (725,500 sq km)
Madagascar (587,000 sq km)
Baffin (507,500 sq km)
Sumatra (427,300 sq km)
Honshu (227,400 sq km)
Great Britain (218,100 sq km)
Victoria (217,300 sq km)
Ellesmere (196,200 sq km)
Celebes (178,650 sq km)
New Zealand (south) (151,000 sq km)
Java (126,700 sq km)
New Zealand (north) (114,000 sq km)
Newfoundland (108,900 sq km)

CONTINENTS OF THE WORLD

CONTINENTS (by size)

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)

 

[Scaff]

Been a while since I saw a subject split opinions this much and some very partisan views as well.

Most diesels bought in the UK are purchased by fleet companies for business/fleet drivers (who acount for over 50% of the UK market).

The main reasons being as follows:

1. Diesel is more expensive (by a few pence per litre) than 95ron unleaded and diesel cars on average carry a £1000 premium over the same petrol model. Therefore the benifits of improved fuel consumption will only begin to pay you back after approx 30-40 thousand miles.

This is a point often 'forgotten' when car salesmen are pitching a diesel car to a private buyer.

2. Company car tax is lower on diesel cars compaired to similar petrol models in the UK; particularly if the engine is 'Euro 4' compliant and not subject to the 3% surcharge.

For example someone paying tax at the normall 22% rate in the UK would have the following company car tax charges per year.

BMW 320d SE - £912
BMW 320i SE - £1,332
BMW 330d SE - £1,308
BMW 330i SE - £1,608

On average £300 a year different, now also remember that company car drivers also pay tax on the amount of fuel they use. The tax argument is a strong push in the direction of diesel for a lot of company car drivers.

Now on the subject of 'sporting diesels'; some work, some don't (much like petrol cars - what a surprise). It depends on how the car as a whole has been engineered, not just the engine that powers it.

The argument that no diesel can be a sporting model because its a diesel is as invalid as saying that all petrol cars are sporting because they petrol engined. Sorry but that is pure c**p, if one car proves that point it is the BMW 330d, it handles as well as the petrol model, is as fast (in the real world), attracts lower tax (in the UK at least) for the company car driver, with better fuel consumption.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that diesels are better than petrols, because that statement is too vague. Judge the car by itself and not by the engine its fitted with.

Now as for racing, as has been posted above various diesel powered cars have competed and won in a range of motorsport events, but here is one from the US.

The 2002 SCCA ProRally Production Champion was a Golf TDi

link to the story here

http://speedarena.com/news/publish/features/article_3876.shtml

In closing I drive a petrol car as does my wife, but I have owned diesels before and would again (a BMW 320d or 330d for example).

 

[DelBoy]

I'll take any modern deisel, but that 20 odd year old PUG deisel that i see pottering around can stay well away. Sounds a bit like a tank, looks uglier and goes slower. Anybody been in the 5 litre V10 VW Phaeton thing? No. Well i have its CRAZY fast and actually sounds pretty cool.

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by Schrodes
It has actually been classified as the largest island and the smallest continent.

It cannot be both an island AND a continental landmass. It is simply a continental landmass - otherwise you could happily include Antarctica in the definition of an island, and then only get more and more ridiculous.

 

[Dave A]

Originally posted by Schrodes
It has actually been classified as the largest island and the smallest continent.

Greenland is only part of a continent, Greenland isn't the continent.

 

[Eagle]

He was referring to Australia.

 

[Schrodes]

It cannot be both an island AND a continental landmass. It is simply a continental landmass - otherwise you could happily include Antarctica in the definition of an island, and then only get more and more ridiculous.

I'm sure you did a thorough study on Australian and Pacific region geography in years 7-12 and as part of your HSC equivalent so you should know.

quote:
MAJOR ISLANDS (by size) locator map
Australia, (7,617.930 sq km) is widely considered part of a continental landmass, not officially an island. But without doubt it is the largest island on the planet, and when combined with Oceania, the smallest continent on Earth.
Greenland (2,175,600 sq km)
New Guinea (792,500 sq km)
Borneo (725,500 sq km)
Madagascar (587,000 sq km)
Baffin (507,500 sq km)
Sumatra (427,300 sq km)
Honshu (227,400 sq km)
Great Britain (218,100 sq km)
Victoria (217,300 sq km)
Ellesmere (196,200 sq km)
Celebes (178,650 sq km)
New Zealand (south) (151,000 sq km)
Java (126,700 sq km)
New Zealand (north) (114,000 sq km)
Newfoundland (108,900 sq km)

quote:
CONTINENTS OF THE WORLD

CONTINENTS (by size)

#1 Asia - (44,579,000 sq km)
#2 Africa - (30,065,000 sq km)
#3 North America - (24,256,000 sq km)
#4 South America - (17,819,000 sq km)
#5 Antarctica - (13,209,000 sq km)
#6 Europe - (9,938,000 sq km)
#7 Australia/Oceania - (7,687,000 sq km)

 

[wdb]

There has been some debate over the BMW 120d, apparently the first diesel car in GT.

But there was no debate over the inclusion of the Mazda Kusabi concept which, as it features in GT4P, appears before the lil Bimmer.

The Kusabi is a diesel too and, as anyone who has played GT4P should be able to attest, really hauls for such a little car.

No probs with diesel here.

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by Schrodes
I'm sure you did a thorough study on Australian and Pacific region geography in years 7-12 and as part of your HSC equivalent so you should know.

Okay then. You're a geography expert. Answer me the following questions.

Why, in your opinion, should Australia be classified as an island?
Why, in your opinion, should Antarctica (or, for that matter, the Americas and Eurasia/Africa) NOT be classified as an island?

Assume that I can understand any technical or scientific terms you may wish to include.


Anyone can quote stuff from the internet. Look:

Australia isn't an island.

Please quote your sources in future. I'm sure they taught you correct referencing in year 7-12 of your HSC.