BMW 3-Series (G20) / M3 (G80) / 4-Series / M4

15,099
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Aren't GTSs continuation of GTR?

The E92 GTS, perhaps, but not the F82.

CSL was about homologating parts for a race car in the years before "M" developed the M3 for homologation purposes.

The E36 M3 GTR would have continued this ethos, but was never sold. When the E46 M3 GTR came the same was true... it was the spiritual successor to to the E9 CSL, but was never sold in the required volumes. When the E46 M3 CSL came along, it was simply a higher spec, lighter car. Not underserving of the badge in principle, but not really equivalent to the E9. The E92 GTS came along with it's new badge and helped to homologate the 4.4 engine for racing purposes, the F82, like the E46 M3 CSL, stepped away from motorsport links to simply be a higher performance version. The CS badge, in its current iteration, doesn't have the motorsport lineage that the original CSL had, the GTR's would have had, or the first GTS had... it is simply the next step up in the M heirarchy after the competition models. It's said that the CSL name will return to replace the GTS badge above the CS, but it remains to be seen if this will a genuine motorsport related product, or simply using the badge to say "high performance".
 
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VXR

10,636
United Kingdom
Plymouth, UK
motorforum
The CS badge also came back in Europe with the 2004 E46 M3, so is fairly indentured as an improved M2/3/4.
 
3,181
Ghana
Null Island
Edit: Nothing to see here phone buttposted of it's own accord; anyway, design of the Gran Coupe fits better but can we shrink the coffin kidney grill by like 10%?
 
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7,841
United Kingdom
Wreckage, Turn 1
PrecisionXCIV
4-Series Gran Coupe Revealed
2022-BMW-4-Series-Gran-Coupe-26.jpg

2022-BMW-4-Series-Gran-Coupe-13.jpg

2022-BMW-4-Series-Gran-Coupe-23.jpg


We all know the story with the front end, but I much prefer the side profile to the regular coupe.
 
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kikie

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in the land of stupidity
Why do cars get bigger and bigger? It's stupid. Even the designer of the X5 said so in an interview.




Yeah, the additional pair of doors help to break up the acres of empty metal.
Indeed, looks much better this way.

I also like the color.
 

Keef

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Yeah, the additional pair of doors help to break up the acres of empty metal.
It's also a more aerodynamic shape than the sedan. I think most car companies will eventually just get rid of "sedans" altogether and transition them to kammback coupes. See: Kia Stinger, K5, this thing, etc. There is no reason to have a "sedan" when a coupey thing does the same job but is more aerodynamic.
 
1,287
Poland
Poland
J_Chmielinski
It's also a more aerodynamic shape than the sedan. I think most car companies will eventually just get rid of "sedans" altogether and transition them to kammback coupes. See: Kia Stinger, K5, this thing, etc. There is no reason to have a "sedan" when a coupey thing does the same job but is more aerodynamic.

Well, the sedan is just about the worst shape for a car you can have from any objective standpoint. I honestly don't understand why everyone hasn't transitioned to liftbacks at this point. Probably cost, but it sucks.
 

TheCracker

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Well, the sedan is just about the worst shape for a car you can have from any objective standpoint. I honestly don't understand why everyone hasn't transitioned to liftbacks at this point. Probably cost, but it sucks.


Don't the US's Open-Container Laws confuse matters when it comes to liftbacks and their easier access to the trunk area? - or isn't that enforced as much now?
 
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15,099
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
It's also a more aerodynamic shape than the sedan. I think most car companies will eventually just get rid of "sedans" altogether and transition them to kammback coupes. See: Kia Stinger, K5, this thing, etc. There is no reason to have a "sedan" when a coupey thing does the same job but is more aerodynamic.

3 Series Saloon has a lower Cd than the 4 series Gran Coupe, like for like.
 
44,288
Australia
Australia
Well, the sedan is just about the worst shape for a car you can have from any objective standpoint. I honestly don't understand why everyone hasn't transitioned to liftbacks at this point. Probably cost, but it sucks.
Didn't you get the memo? USA hate hatchbacks because, they let the air in on a cold day. :sly:

I tell you, if A2 GTIs weren't getting stolen all the time back in the 80s and early 90s, I would not have bought my Jettas.
Also, by choice, I opted for an '01 Accord over the '02 Mazda6 hatch because I didn't want to wait another year. Should have waited.
images (13).jpeg


Other than SUVs, I don't think USA BMW owners took to hatchbacks. Not many 5-series wagons or Ti, plus no E30 3-series wagons. Not sure about any BMW wagons is today's USA line up.
 

ROAD_DOGG33J

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12,986
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holyc0w1
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The problem with these coupes is that they chop the rear headroom down. It's okay though, everything will be a crossover in the future.
 

UltimateYosh

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931
New Zealand
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UltimateYosh
The problem with these coupes is that they chop the rear headroom down.
Yeah, the headroom in the back of my Dad's Stinger is not great. I'm not particularly tall, and I regularly hit my head on the sloping roofline when sitting normally.
 

Keef

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3 Series Saloon has a lower Cd than the 4 series Gran Coupe, like for like.
This I cannot explain. The kammback shape is absolutely a more efficient shape than a traditional sedan so apparently BMW took an established science and somehow made it worse.

The problem with these coupes is that they chop the rear headroom down. It's okay though, everything will be a crossover in the future.
But these crossovers will also be kammbacks, and the problem with that is because their proportions are so tall and short they're going to chop rear headroom even more. The Model X is a perfect example of how to do it well although some people think it looks like an egg and it also needs a moveable spoiler for efficiency at higher speeds. The CLE looks equally dopey. The X6 has a much more sloping roof than either of these but doesn't look much better for it.

EV crossovers and SUVs are going to struggle with highway range unless they all start looking like Model Xes. The Model Y is about as tall and short as they can get before they start looking ridiculous or need expensive retractable spoilers.
 
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ROAD_DOGG33J

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holyc0w1
holyc0w
We all know the story with the front end, but I much prefer the side profile to the regular coupe.

There's something to this design that works from front to end, like they actually took the time to make sure the overall design works. This is the best implementation of the huge grilles so far. It might be mainly the front bumper design around the grilles, and the design on the rear matches.

This I cannot explain. The kammback shape is absolutely a more efficient shape than a traditional sedan so apparently BMW took an established science and somehow made it worse.

There must be something to it. The gran coupe has to be wider or something.

But these crossovers will also be kammbacks, and the problem with that is because their proportions are so tall and short they're going to chop rear headroom even more.

Yeah, I noticed and people keep buying them.
 

kikie

I'm here
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in the land of stupidity
I saw a new 430i in dark gray today and to my surprise, it is a beautiful car. Au contraire of what I previously said in this thread. It seems that when I don't like a car on the internet, I like it in the flesh. And vice versa. The same with this new BMW. Although I have to admit that the front grill looks worse IRL than on photo.
 
14,709
Antarctica
TRAPPIST-1g
ProjectWHaT
M4 CSL spotted


Although BMW had not confirmed the existence of a CSL, people spotted a prototype with CSL branding in the interior

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On the outside, we see the same level of camouflage wrap covering other prototypes but with the vehicle stopped, changes to the front and rear fascias are easy to spot. The CSL's chin spoiler is prominently featured here, not to mention the grille structure and vents in the lower bumper.

At the rear, the spoiler literally stands above everything else, though the swirling wrap still makes it tough to spot changes in the taillights. The rear bumper with the quad exhausts looks similar to standard M4, but there could be some minor alterations to the diffuser.
 

Keef

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It could be worse. I do prefer the smaller lower grille on the current car but I also hate the weird headlight notch. Give and take. My expectations for BMW are lower than they've ever been anyway.
 

VXR

10,636
United Kingdom
Plymouth, UK
motorforum
My only real issue with the current 3-series is what they did to the Hoffmeister Kink. Compared to a lot of its stablemates, it was inoffensive.
 
44,288
Australia
Australia
Get rid of those hockey sticks, replace them with squareish foglights and make the lower air intake opening a rectangle, with slightly rounded edges.
 
10,103
United States
Marin County
I feel like it's a better looking 3 series than the last two generations. The E46 is still king (and king of that segment all time, IMO) but the new one looks fine to me. The 4 series is an abomination however, and I still have a fresh and debilitating revulsion every time I see one, particularly in that god awful electric mucus color.