- 9,890
- Carthage, TN
- race_emhard
Check the car suggestions section, the E30 M3 is the most liked suggestion, the M1 doesn't have as many, but it's in the #2 spot for BMWs.
Last edited:
BMW M235i coming soon to GT6?
- Thread starter Paiky
- 91 comments
- 8,642 views
Check the car suggestions section, the E30 M3 is the most liked suggestion, the M1 doesn't have as many, but it's in the #2 spot for BMWs.
- 8,698
It is when that "principle" is little more than spite, in effect. You can't hold entire organisations to the principle of the individual, much as it might help would it actually have an effect.
Obviously, the decisions that led to "disappointment" in this case were due to individuals, but you can't "punish" them directly without clear communication. Not buying something doesn't send the clear message people often think it does: the company will make up its own reasons for poor sales, or at least its own interpretations of the real reasons.
The chances are that sales are generally unaffected, thanks to the grasp of psychology involved in marketing these days. It's unclear how far that can be pushed at this point, especially since there's "one born every minute".
It's really not as simple as that. For instance, for anyone whose taste goes against the "trend" (misinterpreted from what is really an average) in this small subsection of people who will pay money for the game, they will probably not care to try to "oppose" that average. If I were making the game, I'd start my search with the cars only having a handful of votes - I bet it's a million times more interesting. That's not saying anything about which one I'd choose, of course.
They should ask the largest customer base possible for greatest variety; however I'd bet almost none of them know what E30 means in this context, unless they've been indoctrinated in the ways of being a cool car guy. If you want to play by majorities, that's the way it should be done: ask everyone.
I know about the E30 M3, and can experience it pretty much in any other "current" game if I really wanted to; I have no clue about the M235i, and it's available nowhere yet - that immediately makes it more interesting to me, even if the branding scares me. It's easy to forget that the industry moves forward constantly, and that today's disappointments will be tomorrow's gold standards, relatively speaking. Did you know the E30 M3 has an automatic fuel pump?! Whatever happened to driver involvement?
- 1,460
- England
- 16,432
- United Kingdom
One of GT's plus points has been taking the time to introduce lesser known cars as well as the more common ones, but they can't neglect the more common and historically important ones if Kaz's encyclopedic vision is to be followed.
Also,
How so?
edit: IF the M235i does come... I hope we get the Racing version too...
Last edited:
- 8,698
Yep, it's that magic word again: balance. But the perfect balance will vary from person to person, so all you can hope for is to disappoint everyone equally (and there's more than one way to do that...)
I think there's more romance than actual importance involved with the E30 M3 and its competitor on-track, the 190E. That rivalry is but one in the great tapestry of rivalries, and pales into insignificance when you think about actually historically important rivalries; it's just one that the current vocal audience remembers well enough.
Well, I might be misunderstanding, but I just don't get the ballooning of models at the moment. From a utilitarian point of view, that ballooning doesn't really offer much new. It can only (mostly) be for projecting a certain kind of "image". Maybe that's what's profitable right now (although it smacks of simply copying the competition to me), but I personally admire BMW not for its styling or general image but for its engineering ethos.
What annoys me is when that image thing starts to pervert the engineering too much - I don't know much about the 2, but the steering of the 4 series has suffered under marketing pressure (apparently, BMW only removed the "bad feedback" - but that seems to be the feedback that "enthusiasts" want!). I suppose that's why I'm interested to try it in the game, as that'll probably be heavily, er, "branded" in terms of the data supplied.
All that said, I'd quite like to see what the 2er GC turns out like. It'll be the five door version of the coupe version of the 1er. Which comes as a five-door already.
- 16,432
- United Kingdom
I'm not so fussed about the rivalries, but the E30 did win quite a bit of stuff, it does represent the peak of what a touring car had to offer at the stage in the history of motorsport. I'm not saying it was the only one btw, but I don't recall the 190E being as successful outside of DTM (I could be wrong)
Modern BMW's have been plagued complaints of a lack of feedback, owing to the use of electrically assisted power steering, rather than hydraulically assisted power steering, if anything the M235i's variable electric steering feel will probably be more accurately replicated in the virtual world than the E30s!
Me too... if they make it.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
As far as I'm aware the e30 has become so huge among the community because a few online bloggers have hyped it up so much. It became a huge fad and now you either like it or you have no place at the cool kids table.
I can almost guarantee 95% of the fanbase has never seen or driven one.
- 15,465
- Orange County, NY
- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
- 1,409
- mileret
Substance? More weight and performance doesn't mean more "substance" for me.
Whoever is in doubt with E30 should drive one. I have just 325i Coupe as a fun / second car and it's much more fun driving it than driving any later and / or higher class BMW cars. Even 316i is when you find the kind of road it has been built for...
- 8,698
Sure, I mentioned the rivalry as an example. But there have been other cars that "won a bit of stuff" and arguably are more cult: the Lotus Cortina for a start. But anyone who remembers those is an old codger now; ergo "not cool". What's cool is defined by the kids, and what's "cool" by the middle-aged denying their middle-agedness.
I have no doubt that the E30 is "great", I just don't see why it should be held over many other great cars that also aren't in the game, which isn't to say I don't want to see the E30 M3 in the game. It's just that an artificial hierarchy dictated as objective fact annoys me somewhat.
Electric assist is a hard starting point for "feel" compared with previous systems: more friction, more inertia. You can design out the former down to "classic" levels relatively easily, and the latter can be partially reduced by design, and then almost eliminated (to a given response time) using feed-forward controls or physical models / complex look-ups. Both the increased resistance and the increased inertia lower the "cutoff" of the equivalent passive low-pass filter that the physical steering assembly represents: this naturally eliminates high frequencies, which are critical to the "liveness" of the steering, whether that actually constitutes "feedback", or otherwise.
What's worse is that manufacturers are going to all that effort to improve the passive response (requires less "assistance" by default) and then are deliberately filtering out the consequent extra headroom in software. Because anything above ~10-15 Hz is "bad feedback". I'm sure there's a middle ground, and apparently the NSX was close over 20 years ago!
One thing to bear in mind is that the electric assist is more sensitive to alignment issues, because the software model is inaccurate in that situation (although you can supposedly effectively tweak the model by adjusting the alignment, if you know what you're doing; aftermarket software tweaks can't be too far off, either).
Of course, none of this has any real relevance to GT, although my G25 in GT6 seems to suffer from the usual EPAS complaints: numb around the centre, weighting up only off-centre (artificially so), missing all the high-frequency detail, and a slight perceptible lag felt as "slap-back". So you're probably right!
Yeah, that's why I'm "worried" about the ballooning.
- 4,089
- Utah
I like the E36 M3 better. I know the race history that the E30 has, but it's just not a BMW that I find interest in. I would rather have a regular 325i E30 than a E30 M3. I simply don't like 4 banger BMW's no matter how good they are, and no matter who tries to convince me of the contrary.
And it's not like the E36 is a bad car; as a matter of fact back in its days it was praised for being one of the best handling sportscars ever made.
I guess it's a matter of taste. I rather go with my own likes than to follow the bandwagon. I could enter in a same argument with E46 lovers, since I still prefer the E36 over it.
- 1,206
- South Africa
- 15,465
- Orange County, NY
- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
- 2,143
- The Track
- youngun_great
see, i couldnt even put them in an order. Well i could but for different reasons. E30 had the engine from the M1 with 2 cylinder cut off and based for racing.....win win right. E36 had a nice straight 6 with a better lookin presents and bit more room. E46 kept the 6 but had better quality and style (strap and superchargerto it and win win win). Now the e90 had that awesome v8 but a slightly laid back design, softer. But the F80 is leagues above the rest.
- 1,206
- South Africa
- 242
- New York
- Devilb0yAce
True, but these are notable waste of resources.
- 11,332
- The 51st state of america
- sparkytooth50001
- 16,432
- United Kingdom
- 10,917
- Sweden
- eran0004
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
I've driven an e30 m3 and that's why I can't wrap my head around its following. If you've driven anything remotely exciting and fun, the e30 is nothing special and because of the huge hype, it's a let down.
Like I said before, I can almost guarantee that 95% of all e30 lovers have neither driven one nor seen one.
Only reason I have any interest in it is because it's a late 80s/early 90s german car.
- 16,432
- United Kingdom
So you're suggesting the E30 M3 is neither remotely exciting or fun? I guess that depends on how you derive pleasure from the experience of driving, or what your benchmark is - but either way, there is quite a lot said (written before the blogosphere even existed) about the M3, and how good it was as a drivers car. It proved it's worth against it's contemporary peers and competitors on the road and on the track and that's pretty well documented, if it didn't meet your expectations - then that's unfortunate, but then what were you expecting?
Personally, even though I've never driven an E30 M3, I've owned a number of 3 series', including an E30, an E36 and an E46 (I've also owned E24, E28 and E34 BMW's), and whilst none have been of the M variety there is a characteristic feel to each of them. Something that's a combination of lot's of small elements, something that add's up to deliver the overall driving experience. Getting back behind the wheel of an E30, or any older BMW to be honest, for me, is like meeting an old friend... there's an ease of communication that's on another level, its the feel through the wheel, the stick, the pedals, the driving position. As cars get newer certain things are improved, but I feel it's at the loss of feel... so whilst the E30 M3 might not necessarily blow the doors off every other car on track in a cloud of tyre smoke and the deafening roar of some thunderous engine, it may well deliver the kind of precise tactile sensory experience that some drivers look for, but not necessarily all.
FWIW, in terms of old BMW's I'd rank the E30 behind the E28 5 series for driving pleasure, as well as my favourite BMW, the E24 6 series, which I found also fell short of the E28's handling, though the 3.5l engine helps make up for it.
And I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of <insert generic supercar> lovers have not driven them either, but that doesn't mean they can't derive pleasure from talking about them, looking at them and indeed piloting them in GT6...
