BMW M3 Sedan/Saloon Debut

[forza2.0]

I've seen more M3 'verts around here than coupés, oddly enough.

poseurs. The convertible is ugly unless the roof is down on the new one.

 

[m7ammed]

poseurs. The convertible is ugly unless the roof is down on the new one.

don't diss BMW convertibles ...points to his avatar

 

[forza2.0]

don't diss BMW convertibles ...points to his avatar

You have the weather for it. In england we only get like 3 sunny days lol.

 

[V1P3R]

Sadly, I'd even get the hard top convertible coupe. That sounds funny...

 

[Wolfe]

I don't really get the hatred for sporty/sports convertibles. Yeah, okay, so they give up rigidity and gain some weight compared to their standard brethren, which means in an all-out battle of performance they won't be able to keep up as well...but why does that matter so much? It's a compromise, and nearly any modern sporty/sports car is already a compromise between comfort and sportiness.

Like most of the fancy interior amenities you can get these days, the convertible top is a nice thing to have when you're not tearing around a track at 9/10ths. Incidentally, open-air driving makes a curvy backroad that much more exciting.

 

[McLaren]

poseurs. The convertible is ugly unless the roof is down on the new one.

Um, no. Pretty sure I wasn't a poser when I had my 3....💡

 

[forza2.0]

Um, no. Pretty sure I wasn't a poser when I had my 3....💡

Well I just cant see the point of them tbh. When I was driving a renault drop top the novelty of being able to go roof down cruising wore off very quickly tbh.

 

[Jim Prower]

You know, there are advantages and disadvantages to the experiences of owning a drop-top. I think Clarkson describes them well in this piece. Sure, in the end, he takes the Coupe...but...

 

[McLaren]

Well I just cant see the point of them tbh. When I was driving a renault drop top the novelty of being able to go roof down cruising wore off very quickly tbh.

Um, maybe the point is so you can drive without the top? That's pretty much why they're made.

 

[V1P3R]

I don't really get the hatred for sporty/sports convertibles.

I know this won't make sense and I'll look like a wuss...

1. an open air car has the same stigma of riding a motorcycle here for me.
2. I'd rather drive my dad's 64 1/2 stang then I can hear it's sweet sounds.
3. If (and this is a really big if)... I roll the car some how or someone hits me and I roll I'd rather not have a soft top to protect my cranium.

That's all I got for now.

 

[YSSMAN]

Meh, its a toss-up for me. In some cases, it isn't a sportscar without that open-air feeling (see Porsche Boxster, Mazda MX-5, etc) and in others it should be required to have a fixed-roof... But then I got to thinking about it. Almost every hardcore sportscar of the past few years has had some kind of roof-removing option made available, and generally speaking, performance did not suffer all that much.

Sure, the soft top makes some of the cars look a little funny (the Volante and SLR Convertible come to mind), but they're still excellent pieces of machinery. If I were spending my money, I'd opt for the sedan M3, but thats because I'm a crazy yuppie who has friends. Otherwise, the convertible is always an option...

 

[Joey D]

Most of you know I look at practicality in cars which is really why I would like the I6 twin turbo BMW 335xi over the M3. You would get nice performance with a lot more goodies for the same price. However, if I was going to take an M3 I would probably get the drop top since I wouldn't be racing it or anything.

 

[niky]

Again. Sedan = cheapest = more money for aftermarket... more passengers to scare witless.

A drop top would be nice, though... seriously, people pay huge chunk of change for that V8 sound (I'd say power, but if you wanted power, you'd go out and get a 335 and chip the hell out of it)... so why not enjoy it?

Reference any argument I've made about sportscars on this board in the recent past... if you want a pure sportscar experience, go get an Atom or a Caterham... otherwise, whatever...

 

[Wolfe]

1. an open air car has the same stigma of riding a motorcycle here for me.

The typical convertible driver is a reckless organ donor that zips around and between cars when they aren't pulling wheelies to show off?

The typical convertible driver is a big, tough, unapproachable hardass that wears black leather and doesn't shave?

The typical convertible driver is a gray-haired old-fashioned geezer who enjoys taking his machine out on Sundays to go for a leisurely drive with his wife?

2. I'd rather drive my dad's 64 1/2 stang then I can hear it's sweet sounds.

Uh...what does this have to do with convertibles?

3. If (and this is a really big if)... I roll the car some how or someone hits me and I roll I'd rather not have a soft top to protect my cranium.

I don't think there are any recent convertibles that don't have rollbars of some kind. Nor is it impossible to install rollbars yourself if your car doesn't have any.

I know this won't make sense...

You've got that right.

 

[m7ammed]

A drop top would be nice, though... seriously, people pay huge chunk of change for that V8 sound (I'd say power, but if you wanted power, you'd go out and get a 335 and chip the hell out of it)... so why not enjoy it?

A chipped 335i would be nothing like an M, ask anybody who drove an ///M , ///M is just a whole other level of experience its not just the power its the handeling , the suspension the diff the whole package.... Plus I know that the new E92 M3 can push 460 BHP when chipped

 

[forza2.0]

Um, maybe the point is so you can drive without the top? That's pretty much why they're made.

Ye but with all the converts I have driven it really doesnt feel at that different from driving with the roof up. All I see is a car that is hindered performance wise, and seems to be a cooler idea than it really is.

 

[Dougboy]

A chipped 335i would be nothing like an M, ask anybody who drove an ///M , ///M is just a whole other level of experience its not just the power its the handeling , the suspension the diff the whole package.... Plus I know that the new E92 M3 can push 460 BHP when chipped

That i'll agree with. I have driven an e46 M3 and an e46 330. Two completely different machines. PLus, if you are considering a 335xi as an M3 substitute, then you are not exactly in the M3 target market.

Its like them boys at novitec tuning up a 430 to keep up with an enzo

 

[Jim Prower]

Hint: Just because the 335i has a twin-turbo Inline six does not mean it is a Nissan Skyline GT-R, nor a Toyota Supra RZ: a relatively normal car that can be tuned to the sky.

 

[Joey D]

No the 335i would be more comfortable and probably be higher quality.

 

[forza2.0]

On another note carry on from conversation earlier in the thread the next S4 is gonna be a 3 litre biturbo with 330hp.

Audi S cars like many people have said for ages no longer is positioned against M. RS fights M, S is just top of the line non RS model to give more exclusivety over the rest of the range!

 

[Jim Prower]

No the 335i would be more comfortable and probably be higher quality.

and the engine would break trying to make 1000+hp on stock internals, is what I was getting at. Not that the M3 could do it, either, but the idea that the 335's some sort of tuner car with that engine, that could spank an M3 with simple modifications, I feel, is a bit of a misconception. There's a reason one's positioned lower than the other. I suppose you could build up a 335 that could outrun a stock M3 at the trackday...but you'd need to do quite a bit of suspension work, as well as engine work.

 

[Tornado]

There's a reason one's positioned lower than the other.

You spend the difference on the 335 in upgrades and I wouldn't find it surprising if you ended up with a significantly faster car than the M3. I'm quite sure that I've read that the 335 engine rivals early '90s Camaros in ease of extracting not-insignificant amounts of power for cheap.
Will it outhandle it? Probably not, unless you dip into the "car needs power" fund. But how many engine tuners care about handling? Simply put, the 3.0 twin turbo is the BMW equivalent of a RB26, especially in comparison to BMW's previous engines.

 

[Wolfe]

Ever since "tuner cars" became really popular, BMWs have always been a German alternative to the Japanese mainstays. The non-M engines can't go particularly far naturally-aspirated, but they've always taken well to turbocharging. In terms of M engines, the E46 M3's S54 was very much a boost-devouring beast like the RB26DETT and 2JZ-GTE; all three had iron-blocks.

The N54's (335i) and S65's (M3) aluminum construction mean they aren't as strong as the S54, but they aren't going to blow after the first 100hp increase, either.

I suppose you could build up a 335 that could outrun a stock M3 at the trackday...but you'd need to do quite a bit of suspension work, as well as engine work.

What is "building up" without suspension work or engine work...?