Body modding, custom tuning and GT5...

I agree with live4speed. Anyway, why do you need to obtain all the specific calculations to alter the technical aspects of your vehicle on Gran Turismo? GT offer limited information about the basics behind each of the settings/adjustments to enable the player to establish the purpose of that adjustment/setting. From there its trial and error. I suppose once you obtain a piece of DYNO software, you instantaneously obtain masses of knowledge about advanced engine settings..... or am I wrong (rhetorical question). The game is exactly that, a game, it gives you the resources and a bit of info and the rest of it is meant to be fun... changing a few settings and testing it on the track, then altering the settings and re-testing and so on.

I dont think PD anticipate its market on attending mechanical courses to enable them to play GT. The way GT currently have it is a good way to obtain basic understanding of car mechanics by "mucking" around with settings. For those of us who arent in a vehicle orientated career, we cant just jump on the net and search "how to make a skyline faster" and then you land in a website stating "change your 1 gear ration to 0............... etc" and us alter GT accordingly. I would assume most technical mechanics obtain their knowledge from personal experience (aswell as academic experience) so for those of us who are not (again) in vehicle specific careers, this is OUR personal experience. Surely we arent expected to buy vehicles and throw them on dyno's, throw on a few mods and learn from that.

I love the quote from the forum member a few posts above "I would know... I own dyno... software". Whipdeedoo! I own a guitar, so therefore I am as good a guitarist as Jimi Hendrix. :rolleyes:
 
I liked the racing livery upgrade in GT2, and a paintshop would be welcome....but little else.

Also, it must remain like the older games in that uprading your car should not be integral to being able to finish races.
 
I've played NFS:U...heck I even bought it. But I would never choose IT over GT any day. We all have our own likings, we all have our own opinions.....so why get mad over what someone said a game "should" have? its not like it's a bad thing, its just an opinion he is expressing. And yea we all have opinions, most of you hate NFS:U others love it, and we'll probably defend each game no matter what. But as far as GT5 having Street Mods and what not....well here's MY 2 cents.


I see it as a YES and NO thing. Yes they should have mods to the cars body's but mods that say DTM, BTCC, JGTC, WRC, WTCC use...u get me? They should NOT include "SHOW" mods, mods that are for show. All mods should be "EFFECTIVE" in providind downforce or helping in the airflow manipulation for downforce...or something like that. And as far as Neons and stickers and what not...well they should offer it, that way atleast it would be up to the person to either buy it or not. But they should look at decals that look good. And I guess this is a personal taste, but the decals should look as good as some of the ones used in GT racing, BTCC and JGTC cars. But again, that would be to MY liking. And about the use of NOS...well this is something I really dont like, but accept. I dont like it because it gives you an unfair advantage because its a mechanical device that adds power to the car and there for gives you more speed. Its nice for street racing BELEIVE ME...it is, but for GT I think it should just be limited to street racing cars or cars that are tunable to street racing tune ....say a skyline or an acura integra. Anywho, this is just my opinion on this whole thing. NFS:U is a GOOD game, again.....for those who like that type of racing. NFS:U is a BAD game, again for those who dont like that type of racing. ..... I hope I made some sense because honestly I have lost my train of thought and I think I should end it here. Plus Im sleepy and I need to get up early for work tomorow.....AGAIN!!! :(



oh yea and it sucks that most jobs....you have to work 5 days to get only 2 days off. ....what a load of S@#%!!!!!.... ok im done. take care everyone.
 
I think GT5 should have body modifications and weight reductions like Tokyo Extreme Racing 3. Stage 5 weight reduction made the body full carbon fibre....and the body kits were all functional....and could be made of FRP, and Carbon Fibre..that is the next step in turning that used car into a full time weekend race car. But thats just me..
 
I feel like Body Mods and Custom Paint are essentials for the overall success of GT5. The main reason I say that...

GT has always had one big claim to fame, the car list. I know that sounds stupid to the new school but calm down and think this through with me. (there are many other claims to fame for GT but this is the one I am dealing with at the moment)

GT1, how many cars? Same question for GT2, then GT3, and finally GT4.
For that entire time PD has been pushing more and more accurate depictions of what is out there in the real world.

How many Americans knew of RUF before GT? Or the Evos and WRXs before GT? This game series has always been about bringing international motorsports to enthusiastic gamers in a realistic fashion.

Well guess what, GT'ers today know more than they ever have. PD needs to keep up with us.
Who's heard of Best Motoring? Touge Racing? Etc Etc...

Well guess what racers want after they've seen that sort of thing- Touge cars, tuner cars, obscure racers, and evolving classics!

With body mods and a paintshop in GT5 there will be a fluid and evolving source to expand car collections beyond what PD had originally intended.

Like anything else in this world, the cars being built, raced, dreamed of, and killed off, are constantly changing. PD needs to be able to keep up with this change and a bodyshop/paintshop will make that possible.

You may think online updates will cover this element of gameplay but you are wrong.
There is simply no way to match the possiblities presented by using a basic car model and allowing modifications.

First of all you just can't supply updates fast enough. I mean, how long will it take them to update the list to show every tuner I've seen on Best Motoring? (they just couldn't do it).

However, with my memory and a basic model frame for each car I could build any car in the world. With a little effort from PD they might even be accurate! :lol:

I'm just saying... Over the past year or so I have put together a dozen or so gray R34s with black Nismo wheels and roughly 500hp. If GT5 comes around and I can't legitimately build a Z-tune R34, my money will be spent on a 360 and Forza 2. :ouch:

(that's no joke either, any of you who know me, know by now that I haven't bought a 360 and have been preaching to wait on buying any system until all of them have come out... Now I'm waiting for GT5 before a decision!) :banghead:
 
Kent
I feel like Body Mods and Custom Paint are essentials for the overall success of GT5. The main reason I say that...

GT has always had one big claim to fame, the car list. I know that sounds stupid to the new school but calm down and think this through with me. (there are many other claims to fame for GT but this is the one I am dealing with at the moment)

GT1, how many cars? Same question for GT2, then GT3, and finally GT4.
For that entire time PD has been pushing more and more accurate depictions of what is out there in the real world.

How many Americans knew of RUF before GT? Or the Evos and WRXs before GT? This game series has always been about bringing international motorsports to enthusiastic gamers in a realistic fashion.

Well guess what, GT'ers today know more than they ever have. PD needs to keep up with us.
Who's heard of Best Motoring? Touge Racing? Etc Etc...

Well guess what racers want after they've seen that sort of thing- Touge cars, tuner cars, obscure racers, and evolving classics!

With body mods and a paintshop in GT5 there will be a fluid and evolving source to expand car collections beyond what PD had originally intended.

Like anything else in this world, the cars being built, raced, dreamed of, and killed off, are constantly changing. PD needs to be able to keep up with this change and a bodyshop/paintshop will make that possible.

You may think online updates will cover this element of gameplay but you are wrong.
There is simply no way to match the possiblities presented by using a basic car model and allowing modifications.

First of all you just can't supply updates fast enough. I mean, how long will it take them to update the list to show every tuner I've seen on Best Motoring? (they just couldn't do it).

However, with my memory and a basic model frame for each car I could build any car in the world. With a little effort from PD they might even be accurate! :lol:

I'm just saying... Over the past year or so I have put together a dozen or so gray R34s with black Nismo wheels and roughly 500hp. If GT5 comes around and I can't legitimately build a Z-tune R34, my money will be spent on a 360 and Forza 2. :ouch:

(that's no joke either, any of you who know me, know by now that I haven't bought a 360 and have been preaching to wait on buying any system until all of them have come out... Now I'm waiting for GT5 before a decision!) :banghead:
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Good perspective....but I would LOVE to create my own race by adding all kinds of stuff.....but if PD gives us premade Racing Modifactions like they used to....... But they need to have more than one...
 
And about the use of NOS...well this is something I really dont like, but accept. I dont like it because it gives you an unfair advantage because its a mechanical device that adds power to the car and there for gives you more speed.
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I can see what yur saying with this statement, but the way you wrote it makes it sound like yur saying that superchargers, aftermarket cams and manifolds, and long-tube headers are also unfair because they are "mechanical devices that add power to the car...and gives you more speed". They do only give you a limited amount to use during a race, and its very helpful last minute to beat that slightly faster opponent across the finish line. Its not like someone can use it the whole race and win 2 laps ahead of the leader. Its technically not an unfair advantage cuz its readily available and isnt like using cheat codes. But yes, like you said, its yur opinion, and im not trying to bash it or anything. This is just MY opinion.
 
oh, and technically, its not a mechanical device, but more of a chemical device due to the fact that its a gas that is doing the work.
 
I have an idea that would also be good in Gt5.Howa bout some visable exhust systems.No no no no for the flamers im not talking bout puting coffee cans on every Honda or whatnot.Jus like a mild mannered exhust where u can see it on the car hear it and feel the power change <which u already can.I got this idea from driveing the Camaro SS in Gt4 with its pethtic looking dual exhust come on now wouldnt it look and sound much better with 3in Dual exhusts? thing about it
 
I think when you change the exhaust it should show a visual change too, I tihnk that as you tune your engine, you need to change to an exhaust that isn't too small. I think you should be able to choose the size, but I also think that the size of the exhause should affect performance, choose one too small and the exhaust won't release the gasses fast enough, choose one too big and the gasses will expand in the exhaust and slow down building up pressuse and causing your car to lose power. It should be down to you to pick the size that let's enough gas out but isn't too big for your current state of tune.
 
Two things DEFINITELY(!!) needed for gt5!

1)being able to choose the size of the wheels, and the profile of the tyre.

2)Carbon fibre bonnets. Not nececarily with huge vents and scoops in them, just plain carbon.
 
well they already have the carbon fiber hoods as part of the lightweight upgrade packages. i think you are saying that you want the carbon fiber hoods to be a visual as well, in other words you can see it on the car.
 
Suspension modifications, such as changing Mustangs standard rear suspension into a multilink or similar. in addition, even mirrors could be swapped for more aerodynamic ones etc, and then you could also add a canal that directs air from the front bumper to the front brakes to help them cool down quickly.
 
well i see what you're saying, that is quite excessive in terms of body mods. id never wanna have a car like that.
 
Let's not lose our heads, guys. Remember, GT is only a video game, and always will be. Go outside once in a while, if you don't already.
 
what is this "outside" you speak of? ive never heard of it....can you explain why you decided to throw that in exactly? haha its confusing to say the least
 
Hm... I don't get, why everybody starts whining and talks about NFS when it comes to bodykits... When GT5 has Bodykits, (Tuned Lancer EVO X in American GT 5 Prologue) it will own Forza so bad... BODYKITS are the most important part for me!! (Besides physics) :-P

I mean, look at my FM2 Babies: S14
M3
 
I would like to see the Racing Modifications back again. To me, the appeal of GT is the career aspect. You get your license, buy a crappy car, win a little money. Buy more parts so you can beat better cars, win some more money. Buy a better car, race, money, parts, better car, race, money, parts, etc... Racing Mod was like the final step to that car's career. It wasn't allowed until you had a lot of parts installed, and to me, it meant that I had become a "professional" driver. I would love to see RM available for every car. The first thing I do when I get a new GT game is to go see if my car (03 Civic Si now) is in there, buy it, and run it through the ranks, buying performance and decorative parts until I had it maxed out. I have like 6 Civic Type-Rs in my GT4 garage, in all the colors and different levels of tune. We definitely need a more robust modification system. In my opinion, here are the mods we need:

Internal engine mods (eg Port and Polish, Displacement Up, Compression changes)
External engine mods (Turbos, SCs, exhausts with different sounds!!!)
All drivetrain changes
Motor swaps (within reason, like Auto Modellista had)
Wheels (The more choices the better - nothing sets off the look of a car like a good set of wheels. This is very important to me. I like plus-sizing too, trade in those 14" stockies for some mucho-macho 17s or 18s. Or bigger on the big cars)
Suspension (more details than Sport, Semi-Race, and Race. Let me choose spring/shock combos, coilover, update the old cars with new subframes and modern suspension tech)
Brakes
Body Color (for me, only within that manufacturer's color palette)
Aero (reputable manufacturer's and OEM kits - no "Stre3t Fyght3R" or rip-off crap like that)
Racing Modification (Let me see that roll cage added in, put the numbers and driver name on there, give me stripes and other classic race paints, and make that car look like it rolled out of a pimped-out race trailer, not out of the mall parking lot on a Friday night.)
 
TTownEP:
I think that as far as colors go, they should allow manufacturer's paints basically for free and then have the rest of the color pallete cost credits and allow for different finishes because you rarely ever see race cars and such in factory colors, plus most vehicles don't have much of a range of good factory colors to begin with. Heck, even if they offered a range of colors that they had for the Dodge Charger in GT4, I'd be happy.
 
Its an "enthusiast" game, also it is a "simulator". Im sure PD has no intention of having a custom paintshop. I hope there spending there time on more important things likes making the tuning aspect more deeply involved and complex. Hopefully this will repel some of the "big wheel, bodykit & sticker set crowd".

And am I the only one that doesnt get what GT40 is saying? I know it was posted a while back. Both those cars hes showing were in GT4 and both are factory. The red one is not a SRT 10 with a body kit its a Competiton Coupe with the factory aero package theres nothing custom about that but the stickers.

Note: There is a difference between body kits, and front/rear diffusers, canards, splitters, aero kits etc.
 
Well, my 2 cents

Spinners and neons and the other nfs stuff might be too far. But as mentioned I'm ok with the body kits for down force and such. But if there would be spinners and other unnecessary "bling" I hope there would add more weight to the car (so that it would be really a simulation). I'd like the idea of light weight rims/mags as well. But I think they should include re-paints and the choice that carbon fiber parts be painted body color (nothing fancy, just the normal paint. and that the hood could be seen as carbon fiber). Sponsorship stickers wouldn't be bad either.

my 2 cents

*prepares flame shield*
 
Soprano 3 1 3
Its an "enthusiast" game, also it is a "simulator". Im sure PD has no intention of having a custom paintshop. I hope there spending there time on more important things likes making the tuning aspect more deeply involved and complex. Hopefully this will repel some of the "big wheel, bodykit & sticker set crowd".
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Why do both of thoes things atuomatically = bad. What don't you get about the idea that bodykits can be functional and that custom liveries are not a bad thing?

And am I the only one that doesnt get what GT40 is saying? I know it was posted a while back. Both those cars hes showing were in GT4 and both are factory. The red one is not a SRT 10 with a body kit its a Competiton Coupe with the factory aero package theres nothing custom about that but the stickers.
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Okay that was a factory model, but it basically is an SRT-10 Coupe with a bodykit and there is no reason you can't modify a standard SRT-10 Coupe into the same car or one with a similar level functionality. If you take away the fact that that was a factory show car the point still applies. Let's give you another example, why shouldn't you be able to turn the standard road car into a race car like these...
DTMe30.jpg

D147546_JMartin.jpg

real.jpg

img_000036A.jpg

Spa%20Beetle.jpg

Beetle_Cup_car_front.jpg

05-22CRS1404.jpg

All of thoes can be made by modifying the base road car and they all have body kits and they are all functional. That's not to say all body mods on all race cars are, the rear wings in the current BTCC spec cars are completely useless, the cars are just as fast without them. They are only there for show. But still, if someone wants that, why not. If you don't then you don't. Besides that, it looks like body mods will be in GT5, I just hope custom paint jobs are in too.

Ofcourse no one is saying that you can turn your standard R34 GT-R into a NISMO GT-R GT500, thoes are silhouettes, they arn't actually based on the R34 GT-R in any way but name and resemblence. But if the road and race cars share the same chassis and subframe then the road car can be modified into the race car with the right parts.

Note: There is a difference between body kits, and front/rear diffusers, canards, splitters, aero kits etc.
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No there isn't, a lot of race and rally cars have body kits, thoes parts you mentioned are all parts of what can make up a body kit. The term body kit doesn't = what you see in Need for Speed and Fast and Furious and nothing else. Bodykits can be extremely functional and people that say they can't don't know jack about bodywork and aerodynamics and peple that refuse to think of anything more than Need for Speed Underground when talking about body kits are very narrow minded. Not knowing is one thing, refusing to accept is another, the next line of debate is yours.
 
Im not understanding the point here. Those are racecars, lets for example say those will be available in GT5. If you can buy or when the race car what is the point of putting a body kit on the factory. Let me break it down.

In GT we all know there are limitations to many races. For example there are production car races. Theres a reason there are production cars and non-production cars. A non-production car will more than likely be a race car. Race cars usually have aero dynamic kits on them and other visually recognisable body enhancements that make them corner/maneuver better than a production car. Once again this is why there are production limited races. If you have a production car and a race car on the same track competing, one of them is going to have the advantage.

You just proved my point by displaying race cars. Not production cars with "bodykits". If these were available in GT5 they wouldnt be able to compete in production car races now would they. So im asking my self: If I put a full "aerodynamics kit" with widebody fenders and all, like on that Bettle with the full weight reduction will my car still be production? Sense ive completely altered the physical attributes of this vehicle? No it would be a race car.

Im going to put closure on this by not returning to this thread.
 
Soprano 3 1 3
Im not understanding the point here. Those are racecars, lets for example say those will be available in GT5. If you can buy or when the race car what is the point of putting a body kit on the factory. Let me break it down.

In GT we all know there are limitations to many races. For example there are production car races. Theres a reason there are production cars and non-production cars. A non-production car will more than likely be a race car. Race cars usually have aero dynamic kits on them and other visually recognisable body enhancements that make them corner/maneuver better than a production car. Once again this is why there are production limited races. If you have a production car and a race car on the same track competing, one of them is going to have the advantage.

You just proved my point by displaying race cars. Not production cars with "bodykits". If these were available in GT5 they wouldnt be able to compete in production car races now would they. So im asking my self: If I put a full "aerodynamics kit" with widebody fenders and all, like on that Bettle with the full weight reduction will my car still be production? Sense ive completely altered the physical attributes of this vehicle? No it would be a race car.

Im going to put closure on this by not returning to this thread.
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Man, you're just being stubborn here, c'mon dude.

Those "Race Cars" as Dave said, can be reproduced by any bystanders with money (Aka: gamers). You take the base car, add a bodykit and a nice paintjob, and you get the exact same looking car. If you want to argu about details like that, you are clearly missing the whole point of liveries and custom paintjobs... And to be fair to this discussion... here's a fact: Of all the AAA racing games out there, GT is the only game that doesn't support custom paints and liveries... For any racing fans out there... if you've played Live4speed or another one of those PC racing games.. you'd know that mostly everyone playing, at one point or another, customize their car in some way or another. Its just a very welcomed feature, which adds a lot of the experience.
 
Soprano 3 1 3
Im not understanding the point here. Those are racecars, lets for example say those will be available in GT5. If you can buy or when the race car what is the point of putting a body kit on the factory. Let me break it down.

In GT we all know there are limitations to many races. For example there are production car races. Theres a reason there are production cars and non-production cars. A non-production car will more than likely be a race car. Race cars usually have aero dynamic kits on them and other visually recognisable body enhancements that make them corner/maneuver better than a production car. Once again this is why there are production limited races. If you have a production car and a race car on the same track competing, one of them is going to have the advantage.

You just proved my point by displaying race cars. Not production cars with "bodykits". If these were available in GT5 they wouldnt be able to compete in production car races now would they. So im asking my self: If I put a full "aerodynamics kit" with widebody fenders and all, like on that Bettle with the full weight reduction will my car still be production? Sense ive completely altered the physical attributes of this vehicle? No it would be a race car.

Im going to put closure on this by not returning to this thread.
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No, you are not getting my point. All of thoes are races cars derived from road cars. As I said in the last post, you can modify the road car versions of each and every one of thoes cars pictured to be just the same as the race cars shown. The TVR Cerbea Speed 12 road car is probably the only one you'd have to de-tune to get it to the same level, but the point remains the same. Irl people race modified road cars, irl manufacturers build factory races cars from stock chassis, sometimes they don't, sometimes when the race series allows fo it they might modify the chassis but most race series don't allow for that. Other times they might build a race car around a specially designed chassis or carbon tub, thoes are known as silhouettes. I'm not talking about being able to turn a road car into a silhouette, that is impossible since the silhouette is not based on the raod car. But the TVR T440R is a TVR T440 modified, the race and road cars have the same chassis, nothing the race car has can't be installed on the road car. The same can be said for the BMW touring car, the Ford Puma 1600 rally car, VW Beetle Cup car etc. You are completely not getting what I said in that post.

And I have no idea what your going on about, a production car modified to race not being a production car, no ofcourse it isn't. The whole point of Gran Turismo is to turn your car into a track machine. At the end of the day it would still be upto the player if he/she wanted to turn their road car into a race car, no one would force you.

In GT1 and GT2 you could turn your cars into race cars, bodykits and paint jobs included. In GT3 and GT4 you couldn't, thanks to the time it would take to have re-designed all the cars bodywork. GT5's cars have been modelled differently, wherea GT1-4's were all designed as a single piece barring the badges and a few minor details they would chance to differentiate the R34 GT-R to the R34 GT-R V-Spec and then the V-Spec II, they were essentially one piece models. GT5's cars are being modelled piece by piece, this way PD don't need to re-model the whoe car to give you a car with a body kit, they simple model the new bumpers, skirts and what not seperately. Save time, effort and disk space.
 

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