Briatore gets banned, Renault given suspended sentence and the fallout begins!

Maybe it's not so much paving his return back to F1, as much as his other sport endeavors, which are hindered by his lifetime F1 ban.
Maybe, but the problem with his lawsuit is that it's based on the FIA failing to follow due process. It doesn't addess his innocence or guilt, so even if he gets the lifelong ban overturned, he won't have actually been proven innocent and I think people will be averse to dealing with him.
 
Maybe, but the problem with his lawsuit is that it's based on the FIA failing to follow due process. It doesn't addess his innocence or guilt, so even if he gets the lifelong ban overturned, he won't have actually been proven innocent and I think people will be averse to dealing with him.

Unfortunately... if he's right, and he wins...

I would like to see the FIA taken down a peg or two due to their irritatingly inconsistent judgement and application of rules.

(oh... I know there are sound political reasons behind every decision... boo-hoo... Renault... bad fiscal year? That's like a Ponzi schemer claiming he shouldn't go to jail because he's got a bad back...)
 
Unfortunately... if he's right, and he wins...
Formula One won't miss him, I should think. It's entirely appropriate that he's been booted out over Singapore, but there are other things in his tenue as a team principal that need to be looked at. His relationship with the drivers he manages, for one. And then there was the accusations Bennetton of using traction control in 1994 and 1995. Given that he (at least allegedly) told Piquet to crash, then for all we know, it was he who put the idea into Schumacher's head in Adelaide.

And there's other stuff, as well. Before he was Bennetton's team principal, he was the head of their franchising operations, and there were some rather unusual business practices there: franchisees had to pay large sums to acquire the rights and then sign very tight contracts that often required them to set up in high-rent regions of towns because they were in the best parts. Bennetton took their money, gave them their rights and offered them next to no support from then on. A lot of people suspected the company may have been a front, or that the franchising was some kind of scam.
 
The traction control... nah... that's part of the sport... along with Renault's mass dampers, Ferrari's flexible wings and the "double-deck" diffusers.

The other stuff... well... I am glad to see him go, but if he can hang the FIA up on this technicality... well... that'll make this whole mess even worse...
 
Just read this, I don't know anything more specific yet:

Flavio Briatore has won his case against FIA according to Alan Baldwin of Reuters, who broke the news at 14:05 today
 
This is an absolute disgrace...

Hope the FIA win the appeal against the appeal...

Ridiculous decision overturning this.

C.
 
Seems that the only argument is whether Briatore was allowed to defend himself properly in the FIA court.

Leave it to the FIA to botch procedures on an open-and-shut case.
 
An interesting overview of the effects:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/01/briatore_verdict_leaves_f1_in.html

Andrew Benson
The decision by a French court to overturn the bans imposed on former Renault bosses Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds for fixing the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix leaves Formula 1 in a state of limbo.

The judgement effectively means that, for the time being at least, F1's governing body, the FIA, cannot hand down any punishments to members of F1 teams if they are found guilty of any wrongdoing.

The FIA has characterised the decision as "procedural not substantive", but I'm not so sure it's as simple as that.

What we're talking about here is that, following a scandal that the Times newspaper described as "the worst case of cheating in the history of sport", there has effectively been no punishment handed down by the governing body in question.

Judging from the FIA's statement on Tuesday - which talked about ensuring "no persons who would engage, or who have engaged, in such dangerous activities or acts of intentional cheating will be allowed to participate in F1 in the future" - new president Jean Todt does not intend to let that situation stand.

Briatore's ban stands for now while the FIA decides whether to appeal against the decision. If the FIA does appeal, it might win, and it might not. If it does not, Briatore and Symonds are free to do as they wish - although, having been found guilty of cheating, it would probably be wise to leave it some time before they go back to F1.

But even if it does appeal and wins, Todt clearly needs to change its administration of the sport to ensure the FIA can pass judgement on all participants. Given that Briatore won his case on the grounds that, as he was not an FIA licence holder, the FIA had no right to punish him, the most obvious way would be to extend the list of those who require licences.

Todt's victory in last October's FIA elections was greeted with wariness by F1 teams who remember his divisive presence as Ferrari team boss for 15 years. But it has to be said that judging by his record so far the Frenchman's stewardship of the FIA has got off to a good start.

He has been careful to praise the efforts of his predecessor Max Mosley, who presided over the Singapore race-fixing case, but all Todt's actions have been to start a subtle but perceptible shift away from them.

Among them is a review of disciplinary procedures, which includes the setting up of a new independent body to deal with such issues (Mosley would contend that his World Council was independent; the problem was, few in F1 believed him, and credibility is all-important in these cases).

Certainly the French court decision was an indictment to some degree of Mosley's methods, with his role at the September World Council meeting that banned Briatore likened to being prosecutor, judge and jury all rolled into one.

Members of the F1 community have been expressing similar misgivings about Mosley's running of the World Council for years, so it might seem surprising that it has taken so long for someone who has fallen foul of it to challenge it in this manner.

The reason is that, in the Mosley years, F1 operated under a climate of fear - the general belief was that it was better to swallow whatever punishment Mosley came up with because by challenging it you risked it getting even worse.

This was certainly what was behind McLaren's decision not to challenge the absurdly large $100m fine levied on them for their role in 2007's 'Spy-gate' saga, and which many in F1 believed was rooted in personal vindictiveness on the part of Mosley towards McLaren boss Ron Dennis. Had they fought it, they worried Mosley would ban them from the sport, which would effectively have shut the team down.

It's true that Ferrari took the FIA to the French civil courts last summer in the course of the row over budget caps that ultimately led to Mosley's demise, but Ferrari are too powerful to have the same fears as others in the sport.

The same applies to some degree to Briatore, but clearly he was also encouraged in his fight by the fact that with Mosley gone - even if he remains on the FIA Senate - the risks of repercussions were greatly reduced; and, more importantly, having been banned for life, he had nothing to lose.

In some ways, though, the court case has distracted attention from what could be said to be the central issue here - which is that despite the high-profile investigation into the Singapore 2008 race-fixing allegations, there is still no definitive answer as to what exactly went on in one of the most shameful incidents in F1 history.

The FIA - and Renault's own internal investigation - found that Briatore and Symonds had conspired with Nelson Piquet Jr to cause a deliberate crash to aid team-mate Fernando Alonso's bid for victory. But only those three people really know what happened, and they can't agree on it.

Piquet says he was asked to crash by Briatore and Symonds. Symonds says it was Piquet's idea, but that he went along with it, a decision which he says is "to my eternal regret". Briatore, meanwhile, continues to protest his innocence, even if he does so in the strangled, practically opaque, language for which he is so famous.

So we have the three parties involved all saying different things. Faced with this contradiction, the FIA and Renault were able to come to their conclusions about the guilt for the conspiracy only thanks to the evidence of a fourth party, a whistleblower within the Renault F1 team.

The identity of this person has never been made public, but most people in F1 believe they know who it is. Whatever, this person - deemed "Witness X" in the World Council hearing - gave evidence that he had been told of the plan.

He said that Piquet had approached Symonds after qualifying in Singapore and suggested the idea of a deliberate crash; that Symonds mentioned it to Briatore; and that no-one else was involved.

This was the only independent evidence available to the FIA. The conclusion on the basis of it was to ban Briatore for life; Symonds for five years; and to let Piquet off on the grounds that he had been granted immunity for coming forward in the first place.

And here's the rub - in all the acres of coverage given to this event, remarkably little has focused on the role of Piquet.

The Brazilian told the FIA that he feared for his seat at Renault, and he thought that by going through with the crash it would persuade Briatore to keep him on for the 2009 season.

Clearly, whatever the circumstances, he should never have done what he did - I still find it difficult to comprehend that a man whose job it was to drive grand prix cars chose to crash one deliberately. He says now that he regrets his actions. Yet he was perfectly happy to keep quiet about them for 10 months - until he was sacked by Briatore following the Hungarian Grand Prix in July 2009.

In its justification for not punishing Piquet, the FIA said that it wanted whistleblowers to come forward without fear of prosecution. But it seems to me that this is something different from that.

This is not an innocent bystander coming forward to reveal a sinister plot, but fearing for the repercussions for himself. This is the man who committed the offence in the first place being let off in favour of punishing the two people who, depending on who you believe, either asked him to do it, or went along with his idea. Or, by Briatore's account, knew nothing about it at all.

As Renault's new number one driver, Robert Kubica, said at the time: "Normally if you go to the police and you say you killed someone but you know someone else who killed three people, you will still go to jail."

As he is pondering his approach to any similar events in the future, Todt may want to have a think about that.

Let's remember here that its only the punishment that is being questioned, Briatore has not been made innocent by this.
 
Let's remember here that its only the punishment that is being questioned, Briatore has not been made innocent by this.
Oh, absolutely. Briatore's failure to address the question of his guilt is practically an admission of it. Whatever you think of Max Mosley, he was right on one count in this whole affair: the FIA has been incredibly lenient on Briatore over the years. They gave him the benefit of the doubt in 1994 when Bennetton were accused of using illegal traction control, but when there was insufficient evidence, they took no action. When he was in possession of Ferrari data in 2007, the FIA took him at his word when he said he knew nothing of it. And there may have been one or two other occasions when he's attracted controversy between those two episodes when the Powers That Be have done the same thing. His relationship with the drivers he manages is also odd - some reports sugest he takes as much as 20% of their earnings, more than double what other managers receive. And he has no problem with managing drivers and being their team principal at the same time, a blatant conflict of interests if ever there was one. Briatore has screwed over a lot of people - from Eddie Jordan to Jenson Button - in his time, and his comeuppance was long overdue. Hopefully the FIA can find a way to ban him again.

From the very beginning of this whole affair, Briatore blew it all off. Nelson Piquet was quite vehement about it all, and Pat Symonds fought the accusations. But Briatore rubbished them and acted as if it wasn't happening; no doubt he expected that the FIA would give him another reprieve. I think it was incredibly arrogant of him to challenge the verdict, even ifhe had the right to do it. But then, Briatore has always been like that. I get the sense that the paddock as a whole only tolerate him because they have to. His problem is that he seems to think he's a bigger star than his drivers; that his drivers are only successful because he's given them a seat. The fact that he has committed the single most despicable act of cheating not just in motorsport, but in sporting history - when was the last time someone put dozens of lives at risk in order to win? - means nothing to him. I'd say he is persona non grata in the Formula One paddock right now, and that no-one is going to want to work with him. It happened to Mike Coughlan in 2007; it'll certainly happen here. The problem is that it will not register with Briatore is unwanted and unwelcomed in Formula One; as soon as he finds a way back into the paddock, he'll take it - and he'll expect everyone to be grateful that he's back. After all, according to Flavio, the only time Formula One was not in serious danger was when Renault was winning.
 
I have no interest in defending Piquet Jr., but I don't like it when a respected news institution like the BBC is not truthful, or at least exact.

We say in Portugal (and probably the same or similar is said in other languages/countries) that if you consistently repeat a lie it becames the truth.

So, Andrew Benson, did Witness X say that Piquet had the idea of the crash and that it was him who proposed it to Symmonds? Really?

Please do your job professionaly and at least give yourself the trouble to read the WMSC decision. I'll quote the relevant part:

31. With Renault’s cooperation, Witness X was subjected to detailed interview and
examination. The interview established to the satisfaction of the FIA’s legal
advisers that Renault F1’s description of the evidence of Witness X in Renault
F1’s written submissions of 17 September 2009 was accurate. As a result of the
interview, the FIA put a number of additional questions to Renault F1’s lawyers.
On 19 September 2009, Renault F1 made a third and final set of written
submissions. In those submissions, Renault F1 stated as follows:
“Renault F1 has concluded that the following had knowledge of the conspiracy to
cause a safety car: Nelson Piquet Junior, Pat Symonds, Flavio Briatore and
[Witness X]. [Witness X] was told of the idea suggested by Nelson Piquet Junior
by Mr Symonds, whilst in the presence of Mr Briatore. [Witness X] objected to
the idea. He did not know the plan was to be carried into effect until the crash
happened. As a result of the evidence, including Mr Piquet's admission, Mr
Symond's responses and [Witness X’s] evidence, Renault F1 concluded that they
and Mr Briatore must have known about the conspiracy.”

32. When the FIA’s advisers interviewed Witness X, he expressly confirmed that Mr
Briatore was involved in the conspiracy because Witness X had been personally
present at a meeting shortly after qualifying on Saturday 27 September 2008 when
Mr Symonds had mentioned the possibility of a crash plan to Mr Briatore. The
FIA’s advisers were confident that Witness X himself played no active role in the
conspiracy and that, indeed, he had objected to it and sought to distance himself
from it.

So, Witness X was told of "Piquet's suggestion" by ... Symmonds. Makes it a bit different from what Andrew Benson wrote:

Whatever, this person - deemed "Witness X" in the World Council hearing - gave evidence that he had been told of the plan.

He said that Piquet had approached Symonds after qualifying in Singapore and suggested the idea of a deliberate crash; that Symonds mentioned it to Briatore; and that no-one else was involved.
 
Andrew Benson - Hun200kmh stated that Ardius convinced interludes to murder Jordan's cat

Court findings - Hun200kmh stated that interludes told him that Ardius had convinced him to murder Jordan's cat


Do you see the difference now?
 
I don't read what Benson said that way, the key word is still "suggested". Benson didn't explicitly say he convinced Symonds at all.

Its a little different wording and I can see where the implication is found. But I doubt that was Benson's intention.
 
The judgement effectively means that, for the time being at least, F1's governing body, the FIA, cannot hand down any punishments to members of F1 teams if they are found guilty of any wrongdoing.

Does this mean that anyone who has been punished by the FIA in the past could now win an appeal and get their convictions/fines overturned?
 
The main one I'm thinking of is the $100million McLaren fine. I wander if they are outside their deadline for appeal, if it was say 3 years from the date of the ruling then they would still be able to challenge it.
 
Well, at least Symonds can hopefully be back sometime, ashamed though he should be - he was highly respected.
I've never thought much of Briatore and its a shame that the FIA/Mosley failed to deal with him in a more proper manner. Its hard to imagine he will be out of F1 long after 2013...I mean he is a highly successful team principal and businessman.
 
Thankfully 'Flabio' said he won't go back to F1, so my precious Renault F1 team is safe.
 
I prefer Coronation Street to the Formula 1 soap opera :)

F1 only interests me on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays on a race weekend; nothing in between races.

Do we need rain in China for a good race :ouch:
 
I don't know if I dare say any thing about this, I mean, who knows what could happen to me...:nervous:

What a monumental mistake. This guy should be in prison for life, the smell that follows him has a bad effect on so many people. If you don't know him, do a little research, needless to say, he is untouchable by most if not all laws in many countries. 👎
 
I wonder if any other drivers have ever crashed on purpose (although not so much by team orders)?

I have my doubts, considering the very real risk of death or serious injury up until the mid-1980s, the fact that safety cars weren't regularly used until about 1993, and that few drivers would want to potentially ruin their careers. But it makes me wonder...
 
Why do the british always always put -gate after every single scandal. God that annoys me.

Anyway, I like Flavio, but obviously I don't agree with what happened but I find any photo I now see of Piquet smile inducing. Never liked the kid anyway.
 
Back