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Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by prisonermonkeys, Aug 30, 2009.
Please enter Campos, please enter Campos...
Now that Flav's gone, I just hope Alonso doesn't end up in trouble with the WMSC for whatever reason.
Hang on, let's not go over our heads here. Piquet didn't have it all against him. There is an element of him being a bit rubbish too, there's only so much a manager can do, he can't drive the car.
It obviously helps to have a team thats a bit more open and helpful, but even so, Piquet didn't do anything to help improve the situation with only a few notable drives (France, Japan, sort of Germany).
Lets also not forget some of his more arrogant remarks either.
Piquet's just a spoiled kid. I hope both him and Briatore don't come back to F1.
Briatore is still Alonso's manager isn't he? We've not seen the last of him in F1.
I don't think so. Alonso's manager is some Spanish guy. Though Briatore is manager for other drivers as well.
Indeed, Alonso's manager is spanish, his name is Luis García Abad.
Hold on... While I don't think much of Nelsinho as a driver, being honest is never a bad thing.
Especially considering many professional sports have a shady, seamy underside that could stand exposing to light... (note the drug scandals in many professional sports...) When an athlete comes out and exposes how deep the crap goes, it's often game over for them... and rightly so, as their knowledge comes from deep participation in such things... but at least they go out by coming clean.
To bad he's only coming clean out of spite. His F1 career was over way before this... anyway... so it's not going to hurt him much. I'm disappointed, though, that he actually agreed to such things.
"Cheating" is an inherent part of F1. Whether it's trying to find that last 10th of a second by exploiting a loophole in the rules (double-diffuser, Renault's mass damper, Ferrari's "flexible" wings, McLaren's twin paddles (engine mapping controls under shifter paddles)), which is relatively benign, to sneaky attempts to sabotage other team's qualifying runs (Schumi, famously... plus that driver last year who slowed down in the middle of the track then swerved into the pit entrance in front of another qualifier... which, disappointingly, didn't cause a penalty) to "creative use of the track"... (Hamilton... ...some of it was clearly illegal under the rules... others... well... it would have been nice if they actually applied the Hamilton rule to absolutely everyone, but they don't).
But crashing on purpose... that's another thing altogether... it was horrible when Schumi did it... and it's even worse that Piquet was requested to do it and that he actually did do it.
And with the extra concern this year over debris-related injuries and fatalities, I wouldn't actually be surprised if Renault get the book thrown at them... literally. Stripped of points for one or two seasons.
He should have been honest...but he should have done it at the time, not after trying to race for them anyway and being sacked.
And being honest in this situation doesn't exactly make him an angel either because he's admitting he has no problem with risking the safety of everyone else in order to please his team. Not the kind of driver we want in F1.
He should have said "no". That's what matters. Once he said "yes", there was no going back ... only going down.
However, I must say I believe he was in a terrible, stressful position when all this happened. It's a known fact of life that employees often accept and obey illegitimate orders (even if presented as suggestions) from their employers, because they are afraid of what might happen if they say "No".
If you compare a rookie driver crashing on team request and to no personal gain (except keeping his job), to a multi-champion veteran crashing (because he decided to or was instructed to do it by his team) to keep his rival from getting a pole position, who do you think is worse?
EDIT: To make it clear, I'm talking about Michael Schumacher in the 2006 Monaco GP. Didn't bother to look for the best link about it (for those that don't remember this) , so here's the first that showed up in my google search:
He may have been compromising his own morals and been tossing up his career as an F1 driver verses the truth. This may have been hanging over his head for every race since the incident.
This does not however, relieve him of guilt.
Perhaps, but regardless he shouldn't have done it in the first place and its getting silly with people suddenly changing their opinion of him just because he was right about it all.
Indeed, this is a completely different matter altogether - it has taken the previous lows in F1 history and made them look absolutely trivial in comparison. It's a horrible irony that they chose to abuse the safety car - designed to protect drivers - and sought to win a race by asking a young driver (in only his 15th F1 race) to risk his life by crashing on purpose. I reckon Renault will have their points stripped from last year, banned from this year's competition, given a fine commensurate with the amount of revenue their points will have gained them, and given an even bigger fine for bringing the sport into disrepute, on a scale larger than McLaren received for the 'Spygate' affair. Briatore and Symonds will possibly find themselves in court for wrecking Piquet Jr.'s career too, and I'm sure that Renault and their sponsors will not be happy that their behaviour will end up costing them millions. On top of that, Symonds and Briatore should never work in sport again.
It seems to me that Briatore and Symonds have "bent" the rules on a few occasions. There were 2 instances in 1994 alone with the traction control software still on the Benetton even though it was banned and the removing the filter on the refuelling rig. Right up to a couple of years ago when Renault had data on that years McLaren on their server.
I know all teams are trying to "bend" the rules, but they just seem to take it too far.
Edit: woops actually read the post
Yeah, Benetton/Renault are repeat offenders when it comes to bending the rules further than most.
Edit2: yet another twist:
If this rumour is true that means Prodrive/Aston Martin will be on the grid next year...
Renault sticking the knife into Briatore and Symonds.
I'd like Piquet to get another chance in F1. Unlikely fair enough, but I can still remember a driver who pushed Hamilton all the way in F3000 and I can't believe he's forgotten how to go fast since then. Perhaps a different Management style that supports him rather that the bullying tactics of Briatore might do the trick.
I was discussing this with my wife last night and she made what I think is a good point... I was saying that he was under pressure, Flav was both his employer and his manager and he probably had no where to go.
My wife says 'Wasn't his dad a F1 driver? Why didn't he ask his father's advice when Flav and Symonds suggested the idea?'
Surely Nelson would have told him to tell them to get stuffed?
I think the idea is that it was suggested just before the race, where I think he might not've had time to ask for a second opinion.
Sorry if it's been pointed out already, but I've just heard Ferrari are investigating lost said points in Singapore...? Not sure how it would've affected things?
FIA say: Void game, reset chips.
It's gonna be pretty hard proving they would've won if Piquet hadn't crashed...
Ferrari have no case - there are too many variables that determined the championship, Massa and the team made many mistakes of their own in other races.
I doubt Massa would be very pleased to have taken the championship almost a year later under these circumstances.
I'd expect they might be after money, if they expect Renault are making a departure?
Only speculation, I'm sure it'll result in nothing, but with F1 politics assuming never really pays off.
They can't get any money off them - what can they take them to court for? Being cheated out of points? It can't be proven that Ferrari would 100% benefitted from the whole incident never happening, the fuel rig may have still got stuck or whatever.
If its taken to the courts I'll be very surprised.
Full report of the stewards investigations: A very long read, but very interesting also:
I don't know about Kimi, but Massa didn't finish the race.
About the comparison with Schumacher, in Schumy's case it was a split second decision. Piquet actually sat down with his team and decided beforehand all the details about it. I'm Brazilian so I'd be expected to cheer for Piquet, but I think of it as something disgusting and I hope he stays far away from F1.
And I can imagine the pressure on Piquet on that ocasion, but that doesn't even justify him putting his life and career on the line. And whatever he's doing now isn't because of his conscience, it's about getting revenge. Pretty disgusting from both sides.
The only possible advantage is that we'll get rid of Briatore. Hopefully the rumours about Prost going to Renault are true.
It's impossible to prove they would have won. After all, it wasn't Renault who screwed up Massa's stop ...
I found the money line!!!
Best summed up indeed!
And THAT, my friends, is going into my sig....
... Hamilton loses 6pt for a 3rd place finish, Massa wins WDC by 5pt.
Mosley has already said that the final standings of the championship will not be changed.