Britain - The Official Thread

[ECGadget]

The insertion of Christ and Christianity into the winter festival in Europe is very much a recent invention and one that is rapidly and thankfully dying off.

Europe has had a winter festival for millennia, around the Solstice, as a celebration of the end of nights drawing in and the new year, characterised by feasting and the giving of gifts. Because Europe was farmers and hunters for eighty thousand years and if there's one thing farmers and hunters hate and party because it's gone away it's short days and long nights - they can't get as much work done and if they try it's dangerous and they die.

The Romans had a habit of pairing existing festivals with their own deities, so when they invaded your country you could still have a party, but theirs was bigger and in someone else's name and the Pagan (well... sorta) "Yule" became attached to Saturn as Saturnalia. The Romans invaded quite a lot of countries, so quite a lot of places celebrated Saturnalia. They even made their Saturnalia last for a week, just to encompass as many Yules as they could...

Then they caught Christianity and in the 4th Century some bright spark decided that Christ was born on 25th December, right around the time of the biggest celebration on the calendar. It's like magic or an amazing coincidence or something - especially as the Gospels disagree on the year - but there you go.

So for a few hundred years it was Yule, Saturnalia, Christmas and whatever all rolled into one. There was much feasting and gift-giving as usual.

Crap didn't get really religious until the Middle Ages, when everywhere went really religious and if you think that was pious, it had nothing on the Reformation. They went nuts with the Christ stuff.

But it's had its day now and the consumerism we all bitch about every December has shunted Christmas back, ironically, towards Yule and Saturnalia. Ask people what the ten things that represent Christmas to them are and you'll get a list of stuff that Yule and Saturnalia were all about - food, drink, gifts, holly (and ivy, natch), snow, music and so on. The rest of the list is likely to be Santa or, more broadly, the colour red, which shows you just how effective the marketing department at Coca Cola really is.

Even the Nativity is a concept that predates the tradition. The Romans put on a play in Saturnalia - the Protestants just made it a play about the infant Jesus...

Thank you for that explanation. I only knew some of that actually, like the whole Jesus' birth on the 25th and Coca Cola making Santa red (when he used to be green??). I learn something new everyday!

 

[Dennisch]

The insertion of Christ and Christianity into the winter festival in Europe is very much a recent invention and one that is rapidly and thankfully dying off.

Europe has had a winter festival for millennia, around the Solstice, as a celebration of the end of nights drawing in and the new year, characterised by feasting and the giving of gifts. Because Europe was farmers and hunters for eighty thousand years and if there's one thing farmers and hunters hate and party because it's gone away it's short days and long nights - they can't get as much work done and if they try it's dangerous and they die.

The Romans had a habit of pairing existing festivals with their own deities, so when they invaded your country you could still have a party so they didn't seem like bad guys to the genpop, but theirs was bigger and in someone else's name and the Pagan (well... sorta) "Yule" became attached to Saturn as Saturnalia. The Romans invaded quite a lot of countries, so quite a lot of places celebrated Saturnalia. They even made their Saturnalia last for a week, just to encompass as many Yules as they could...

Then they caught Christianity and in the 4th Century some bright spark decided that Christ was born on 25th December, right around the time of the biggest celebration on the calendar. It's like magic or an amazing coincidence or something - especially as the Gospels disagree on the year - but there you go.

So for a few hundred years it was Yule, Saturnalia, Christmas and whatever all rolled into one. There was much feasting and gift-giving as usual.

Crap didn't get really religious until the Middle Ages, when everywhere went really religious and if you think that was pious, it had nothing on the Reformation. They went nuts with the Christ stuff.

But it's had its day now and the consumerism we all bitch about every December has shunted Christmas back, ironically, towards Yule and Saturnalia. Ask people what the ten things that represent Christmas to them are and you'll get a list of stuff that Yule and Saturnalia were all about - food, drink, gifts, holly (and ivy, natch), snow, music and so on. The rest of the list is likely to be Santa or, more broadly, the colour red, which shows you just how effective the marketing department at Coca Cola really is.

Even the Nativity is a concept that predates the tradition. The Romans put on a play in Saturnalia - the Protestants just made it a play about the infant Jesus...

Posts like this should be stickied at the top of the O&CE list.

 

[Roo]

BraceYourselfBritainFirstFacebookPostsAreComing.jpg

Speaking of which, if you can put up with the Huffington Post there's a rather entertaining article about Britain First's recent conference.

 

[Johnnypenso]

British cinema chains have said that they won't show an pre-yule advert for prayer, specifically the christian lord's prayer. BBC. Personally I agree that cinemas and all such-like should steer clear of political or religious commentary of any kind.

BraceYourselfBritainFirstFacebookPostsAreComing.jpg

Whilst I agree that cinemas should be free of any religious/political commentary, when has a prayer hurt anyone? Sure everyone believes differently, but isn't Christmas completely revolved around a religion, so if they are banning prayer adverts etc, would the next step be banning xmas adverts? That would be really sad.

Why should they steer clear of political commentary of any kind? Why should they be free of religious/political commentary? Should they then not have shown the film Iron Lady? Should they have shown Selma, a politically charged movie around the American Civil Rights Movement, which contains historical innaccuracies, among them making it look like LBJ was against the Voting Rights Act when he was actually for it? Should they also not be allowed to show an enhanced version of Miracle on 34th Street? What about It's a Wonderful Life?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Why should they steer clear of political commentary of any kind? Why should they be free of religious/political commentary? Should they then not have shown the film Iron Lady? Should they have shown Selma, a politically charged movie around the American Civil Rights Movement, which contains historical innaccuracies, among them making it look like LBJ was against the Voting Rights Act when he was actually for it? Should they also not be allowed to show an enhanced version of Miracle on 34th Street? What about It's a Wonderful Life?

I think there's a difference between allowing an audience to decide what they think of a film that they've paid to watch and a cinema taking money to show adverts for things.

 

[ECGadget]

Why should they steer clear of political commentary of any kind? Why should they be free of religious/political commentary? Should they then not have shown the film Iron Lady? Should they have shown Selma, a politically charged movie around the American Civil Rights Movement, which contains historical innaccuracies, among them making it look like LBJ was against the Voting Rights Act when he was actually for it? Should they also not be allowed to show an enhanced version of Miracle on 34th Street? What about It's a Wonderful Life?

Like @TenEightyOne said, it is about the adverts, not the film itself. Personally I love Christmas films and would love to watch them in cinema. Or films that highlight politics of the past or present. But adverts that are religious/political? No thank you. That being said, is there any harm in a small prayer at certain times of the year? I don't think so.

At least every film does not start with a lovely rendition of God Save The Queen anymore...

 

[ExigeEvan]

Strategic Defence Review 2015 is trickling out today. Lots of big money projects hitting the headlines, but how does that impact everything else?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Strategic Defence Review 2015 is trickling out today. Lots of big money projects hitting the headlines, but how does that impact everything else?

We've gone from having no money for schools, libraries or the elderly to being able to afford 130+ F-22B Raptors (not to be confused with Tornado Raptors) and two carriers to put them on. And a jolly good lunch to boot, pip pip.

 

[ExigeEvan]

We've gone from having no money for schools, libraries or the elderly to being able to afford 130+ F-22B Raptors (not to be confused with Tornado Raptors) and two carriers to put them on. And a jolly good lunch to boot, pip pip.

The reality is a lot of these things have been on the table since 2010 but have been pushed out to the right .

F35 numbers were always contentious but like to be in triple figures, a maritime patrol vessel was always needed and a rapidly deployable force has been recycled at every defence review for decades.

 

[Liquid]

I thought we were building aircraft carries with no aircraft to put on them, no? And we had to build them regardless because reasons.

Something has changed.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I believe we still are, there's still a gap between QE2 IOC (2018?) and F35B IOC (2020?). Nothing has changed in that regard as we were always going to have F35B at some point, but we didn't know if there would be enough to crew both carriers at once.

 

[ECGadget]

A UK would be bomber has been jailed for 40 years. Good. I hope he stays there for every one of those 40 years.

 

[Lizard]

So Corbyn's bench. They have a habit of making gaffes even if their ideas are solid. The latest idea to quote Mao and claim the Tories are comrades etc when this is the furthest left Labour party in years was stupid.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So Corbyn's bench. They have a habit of making gaffes even if their ideas are solid. The latest idea to quote Mao and claim the Tories are comrades etc when this is the furthest left Labour party in years was stupid.

Sadly Osborne's comeback was very funny; he picked up the LRB and noted that it appeared to be McDonnell's own signed copy. Now the Shadow Cabinet are revolting.

 

[Touring Mars]

Either Labour is in total disarray with a leader that is completely at odds with the rest of the party, or they are playing a very clever game of 'officially' disagreeing with the Tories (i.e. Corbyn is against them) while actually agreeing with them (the rest of the party).

 

[ExigeEvan]

The issue with Corbyn is simple, he has a mandate from his members, but none within parliament.

 

[Touring Mars]

Brilliant speech from Hilary Benn tonight, garnering an ovation from across the House (albeit mostly Tories, but never mind) with Jeremy Corbyn looking biscuit-arsed behind him, after he himself (JC) delivered a limp defence of his own stance earlier in the day, in which he wasted most of his potential impact on a frankly embarrassing and pointless attempt to extract an apology from David Cameron (for apparently insulting his opponents yesterday) instead of launching an impassioned argument of his own. Hilary Benn - Corbyn's own Foriegn Secretary - delivered a blistering and impassioned speech tonight, convincing, thorough and utterly devastating to Jeremy Corbyn's position as party leader. RAF jets are being primed as we speak - the vote is currently underway and the result will be known within minutes. I'm not sure what will happen first - RAF bombs to hit Raqqa, or Corbyn to resign.

 

[ECGadget]

Have to admit I am not in favour of bombardment (though I fear it may be the only option we have left) but that speech by Hilary Benn was fantastic. I think no matter what your stance is, you had to be impressed with that at least somewhat.

Edit: I didn't agree with it though.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Brilliant speech from Hilary Benn tonight, garnering an ovation from across the House (albeit mostly Tories, but never mind) with Jeremy Corbyn looking biscuit-arsed behind him, after he himself (JC) delivered a limp defence of his own stance earlier in the day, in which he wasted most of his potential impact on a frankly embarrassing and pointless attempt to extract an apology from David Cameron (for apparently insulting his opponents yesterday) instead of launching an impassioned argument of his own. Hilary Benn - Corbyn's own Foriegn Secretary - delivered a blistering and impassioned speech tonight, convincing, thorough and utterly devastating to Jeremy Corbyn's position as party leader. RAF jets are being primed as we speak - the vote is currently underway and the result will be known within minutes. I'm not sure what will happen first - RAF bombs to hit Raqqa, or Corbyn to resign.

I thought it was 🤬. You don't bomb people because they hold you in contempt, or think they are superior to yourself. He sounded like some damned crusader that was keen to show the locals how superior his way of life was.

Cameron hasn't got a plan, he's barely got past writing step 1. We already have numerous assets in Syria that are assisting our Western allies, we don't need to be letting loose missiles in another country where there's no ground plan, no restructuring and no political future.

We quite literally bombed Libya into the stoneage and left them to rebuild from the dirt. What for Syria with Assad still in place?

 

[Lizard]

Brilliant speech from Hilary Benn tonight, garnering an ovation from across the House (albeit mostly Tories, but never mind) with Jeremy Corbyn looking biscuit-arsed behind him, after he himself (JC) delivered a limp defence of his own stance earlier in the day, in which he wasted most of his potential impact on a frankly embarrassing and pointless attempt to extract an apology from David Cameron (for apparently insulting his opponents yesterday) instead of launching an impassioned argument of his own. Hilary Benn - Corbyn's own Foriegn Secretary - delivered a blistering and impassioned speech tonight, convincing, thorough and utterly devastating to Jeremy Corbyn's position as party leader. RAF jets are being primed as we speak - the vote is currently underway and the result will be known within minutes. I'm not sure what will happen first - RAF bombs to hit Raqqa, or Corbyn to resign.

If that is your criteria for when someone should resign then I guess governments should be restricted to 3 month terms.

 

[Liquid]

When was the last time something went to a national referendum or plebiscite? UK wide.

Obviously this wouldn't have had that because (I believe) the government would have been defeated by the very people they're supposedly representing but it seems like the sort of issue that ought to be decided by the people; "Do we want to bomb other countries?"

Edit:

Incidentally, my MP (Alyn & Deeside) voted against the motion as did the four MPs in other near constituencies (Delyn, Wrexham, City of Chester).

397 For
223 Against

12 Abstentions
13 Did Not Vote

No SNP, SDLP or Plaid Cymru voted for.

Spoiler: MPs Who Voted FOR

Conservatives:

Adam Afriyie (Windsor)
Alan Mak (Havant)
Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire)
Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell)
Alex Chalk (Cheltenham)
Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire)
Alok Sharma (Reading West)
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan)
Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase)
Amanda Solloway (Derby North)
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye)
Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood)
Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire)
Andrew Bingham (High Peak)
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire)
Andrew Griffiths (Burton)
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough)
Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield)
Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire)
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole)
Andrew Rosindell (Romford)
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire)
Andrew Stephenson (Pendle)
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe)
Anne Main (St Albans)
Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot)
Anne Milton (Guildford)
Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury)
Ben Gummer (Ipswich)
Ben Howlett (Bath)
Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North)
Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex)
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire)
Bob Blackman (Harrow East)
Bob Stewart (Beckenham)
Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth)
Byron Davies (Gower)
Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne)
Caroline Dinenage (Gosport)
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North)
Caroline Spelman (Meriden)
Charles Walker (Broxbourne)
Charlie Elphicke (Dover)
Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West)
Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham)
Chloe Smith (Norwich North)
Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire)
Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell)
Chris Green (Bolton West)
Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry)
Chris Philp (Croydon South)
Chris Skidmore (Kingswood)
Chris White (Warwick and Leamington)
Christopher Pincher (Tamworth)
Claire Perry (Devizes)
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West)
Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet)
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire)
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley)
Craig Williams (Cardiff North)
Crispin Blunt (Reigate)
Dame Angela Watkinson (Hornchurch and Upminster)
Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe)
Damian Green (Ashford)
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire)
Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham)
Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich)
David Amess (Southend West)
David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate)
David Cameron (Witney)
David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford)
David Gauke (South West Hertfordshire)
David Jones (Clwyd West)
David Lidington (Aylesbury)
David Mackintosh (Northampton South)
David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale)
David Mowat (Warrington South)
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale)
David Nuttall (Bury North)
David Rutley (Macclesfield)
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth)
David Tredinnick (Bosworth)
David Warburton (Somerton and Frome)
Derek Thomas (St Ives)
Desmond Swayne (New Forest West)
Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)
Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton)
Edward Argar (Charnwood)
Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich)
Edward Vaizey (Wantage)
Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk)
Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar)
Fiona Bruce (Congleton)
Flick Drummond (Portsmouth South)
Gareth Johnson (Dartford)
Gary Streeter (South West Devon)
Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central)
Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire)
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds)
Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon)
George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth)
George Freeman (Mid Norfolk)
George Hollingbery (Meon Valley)
George Osborne (Tatton)
Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire)
Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West)
Graham Evans (Weaver Vale)
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness)
Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield)
Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells)
Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham)
Guto Bebb (Aberconwy)
Guy Opperman (Hexham)
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire)
Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire)
Heidi Allen (South Cambridgeshire)
Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald)
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent)
Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk)
Henry Smith (Crawley)
Hugo Swire (East Devon)
Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle)
Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green)
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South)
Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset)
Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke)
Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset)
Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen)
James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton)
James Brokenshire (Old Bexley and Sidcup)
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk)
James Cleverly (Braintree)
James Davies (Vale of Clwyd)
James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East)
James Gray (North Wiltshire)
James Heappey (Wells)
James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis)
James Wharton (Stockton South)
Jane Ellison (Battersea)
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley)
Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey)
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford)
Jeremy Quin (Horsham)
Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam)
Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire)
Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds)
John Glen (Salisbury)
John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings)
John Howell (Henley)
John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare)
John Stevenson (Carlisle)
John Whittingdale (Maldon)
Johnny Mercer (Plymouth, Moor View)
Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon)
Jonathan Lord (Woking)
Joseph Johnson (Orpington)
Julian Brazier (Canterbury)
Julian Knight (Solihull)
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon)
Julian Sturdy (York Outer)
Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon)
Justine Greening (Putney)
Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands)
Karen Lumley (Redditch)
Karl McCartney (Lincoln)
Keith Simpson (Broadland)
Kelly Tolhurst (Rochester and Strood)
Kevin Foster (Torbay)
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton)
Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire)
Kris Hopkins (Keighley)
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne)
Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury)
Liam Fox (North Somerset)
Lucy Allan (Telford)
Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire)
Luke Hall (Thornbury and Yate)
Maggie Throup (Erewash)
Marcus Fysh (Yeovil)
Marcus Jones (Nuneaton)
Margot James (Stourbridge)
Maria Caulfield (Lewes)
Maria Miller (Basingstoke)
Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster)
Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford)
Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest)
Mark Harper (Forest of Dean)
Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North)
Mark Menzies (Fylde)
Mark Pawsey (Rugby)
Mark Prisk (Hertford and Stortford)
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin)
Mark Spencer (Sherwood)
Mary Robinson (Cheadle)
Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness)
Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk)
Matthew Offord (Hendon)
Mel Stride (Central Devon)
Michael Ellis (Northampton North)
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield)
Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks)
Michael Gove (Surrey Heath)
Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole)
Michelle Donelan (Chippenham)
Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green)
Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead)
Mike Wood (Dudley South)
Mims Davies (Eastleigh)
Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon)
Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire)
Neil Carmichael (Stroud)
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton)
Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford)
Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs)
Nick Hurd (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner)
Nicky Morgan (Loughborough)
Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon)
Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty)
Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley)
Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire)
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley)
Nusrat Ghani (Wealden)
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport)
Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere)
Oliver Letwin (West Dorset)
Owen Paterson (North Shropshire)
Patrick McLoughlin (Derbyshire Dales)
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys)
Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam)
Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire)
Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North)
Peter Aldous (Waveney)
Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
Peter Heaton-Jones (North Devon)
Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden)
Philip Davies (Shipley)
Philip Dunne (Ludlow)
Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge)
Phillip Lee (Bracknell)
Priti Patel (Witham)
Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire)
Rebecca Harris (Castle Point)
Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane)
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham)
Richard Bacon (South Norfolk)
Richard Benyon (Newbury)
Richard Drax (South Dorset)
Richard Fuller (Bedford)
Richard Graham (Gloucester)
Richard Harrington (Watford)
Rishi Sunak (Richmond (Yorks))
Rob Wilson (Reading East)
Robert Buckland (South Swindon)
Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby)
Robert Halfon (Harlow)
Robert Jenrick (Newark)
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst)
Robert Syms (Poole)
Robin Walker (Worcester)
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border)
Royston Smith (Southampton, Itchen)
Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove)
Sam Gyimah (East Surrey)
Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth)
Sarah Wollaston (Totnes)
Scott Mann (North Cornwall)
Seema Kennedy (South Ribble)
Shailesh Vara (North West Cambridgeshire)
Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall)
Simon Burns (Chelmsford)
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)
Simon Hoare (North Dorset)
Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown)
Sir Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton)
Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden)
Sir Edward Garnier (Harborough)
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot)
Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire)
Sir Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex)
Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire)
Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley)
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West)
Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet)
Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire)
Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon)
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock)
Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham)
Steve Baker (Wycombe)
Steve Brine (Winchester)
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay)
Stewart Jackson (Peterborough)
Stuart Andrew (Pudsey)
Suella Fernandes (Fareham)
Tania Mathias (Twickenham)
Theresa May (Maidenhead)
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet)
Therese Coffey (Suffolk Coastal)
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham)
Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East)
Tom Pursglove (Corby)
Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling)
Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford)
Victoria Atkins (Louth and Horncastle)
Victoria Borwick (Kensington)
Victoria Prentis (Banbury)
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills)
Will Quince (Colchester)
William Cash (Stone)
William Wragg (Hazel Grove)
Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park)

Labour:

Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West)
Alan Campbell (Tynemouth)
Alan Johnson (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle)
Alison McGovern (Wirral South)
Angela Eagle (Wallasey)
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge)
Ann Coffey (Stockport)
Anna Turley (Redcar)
Ben Bradshaw (Exeter)
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South)
Caroline Flint (Don Valley)
Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
Chris Leslie (Nottingham East)
Chuka Umunna (Streatham)
Colleen Fletcher (Coventry North East)
Conor McGinn (St Helens North)
Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central)
Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East)
Frank Field (Birkenhead)
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West)
Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
George Howarth (Knowsley)
Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston)
Gloria De Piero (Ashfield)
Graham Jones (Hyndburn)
Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East)
Helen Jones (Warrington North)
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
Holly Lynch (Halifax)
Ian Austin (Dudley North)
Jamie Reed (Copeland)
Jenny Chapman (Darlington)
Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge)
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse)
Joan Ryan (Enfield North)
John Spellar (Warley)
John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness)
Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
Kevan Jones (North Durham)
Kevin Barron (Rother Valley)
Liz Kendall (Leicester West)
Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside)
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree)
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central)
Margaret Beckett (Derby South)
Margaret Hodge (Barking)
Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood)
Mary Creagh (Wakefield)
Michael Dugher (Barnsley East)
Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark)
Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East)
Peter Kyle (Hove)
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield)
Ruth Smeeth (Stoke-on-Trent North)
Simon Danczuk (Rochdale)
Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden)
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow)
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth)
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South)
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland)
Tom Watson (West Bromwich East)
Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
Vernon Coaker (Gedling)
Wayne David (Caerphilly)
Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford)

DUP:

David Simpson (Upper Bann)
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East)
Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry)
Ian Paisley (North Antrim)
Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley)
Jim Shannon (Strangford)
Nigel Dodds (Belfast North)
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim)

Lib Dems:

Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland)
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West)
John Pugh (Southport)
Nick Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam)
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale)
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington)

UUP:

Danny Kinahan (South Antrim)
Tom Elliott (Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

UKIP:

Douglas Carswell (Clacton)

Independents:

Lady Sylvia Hermon (North Down)

Spoiler: MPs Who Voted AGAINST

Labour:

Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test)
Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North)
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish)
Andrew Smith (Oxford East)
Andy Burnham (Leigh)
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough)
Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith)
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South)
Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield)
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
Carolyn Harris (Swansea East)
Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood)
Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North)
Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green)
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central)
Chris Evans (Islwyn)
Christian Matheson (City of Chester)
Christina Rees (Neath)
Clive Betts (Sheffield South East)
Clive Efford (Eltham)
Clive Lewis (Norwich South)
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge)
David Anderson (Blaydon)
David Crausby (Bolton North East)
David Hanson (Delyn)
David Lammy (Tottenham)
David Winnick (Walsall North)
Dawn Butler (Brent Central)
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth)
Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Derek Twigg (Halton)
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North)
Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington)
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North)
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury)
Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields)
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
Gavin Shuker (Luton South
Geraint Davies (Swansea West)
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
Graham Allen (Nottingham North)
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton)
Grahame Morris (Easington)
Harry Harpham (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough)
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood)
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)
Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham)
Ian Lavery (Wansbeck)
Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South)
Imran Hussain (Bradford East)
Ivan Lewis (Bury South)
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington)
Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington)
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North)
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley)
Jessica Morden (Newport East)
Jim Cunningham (Coventry South)
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central)
John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead)
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington)
Jon Cruddas (Dagenham and Rainham)
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth)
Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South)
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde)
Judith Cummins (Bradford South)
Julie Cooper (Burnley)
Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central)
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston)
Karen Buck (Westminster North)
Karin Smyth (Bristol South)
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East)
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston)
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
Kate Hollern (Blackburn)
Kate Osamor (Edmonton)
Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras)
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North)
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West)
Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill)
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South)
Lisa Nandy (Wigan)
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley)
Lyn Brown (West Ham)
Madeleine Moon (Bridgend)
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West)
Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston)
Mark Hendrick (Preston)
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside)
Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich)
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch)
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby)
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
Naz Shah (Bradford West)
Nia Griffith (Llanelli)
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe)
Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East)
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent)
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen)
Owen Smith (Pontypridd)
Pat Glass (North West Durham)
Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central)
Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme)
Paul Flynn (Newport West)
Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury)
Peter Dowd (Bootle)
Rachael Maskell (York Central)
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West)
Rebecca Long-Bailey (Salford and Eccles)
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield)
Richard Burgon (Leeds East)
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South)
Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham)
Roger Godsiff (Birmingham, Hall Green)
Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley)
Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton)
Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow)
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth)
Sadiq Khan (Tooting)
Sarah Champion (Rotherham)
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston)
Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood)
Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West)
Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield)
Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton)
Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow)
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon)
Stephen Pound (Ealing North)
Stephen Timms (East Ham)
Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby)
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak)
Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton)
Sue Hayman (Workington)
Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
Toby Perkins (Chesterfield)
Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn)
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South)
Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford)
Wes Streeting (Ilford North)
Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East)
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield)

SNP:

Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun)
Alex Salmond (Gordon)
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central)
Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East)
Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar)
Angus Robertson (Moray)
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East)
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute)
Callum McCaig (Aberdeen South)
Calum Kerr (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West)
Chris Law (Dundee West)
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West)
Corri Wilson (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith)
Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife)
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey)
Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan)
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North)
George Kerevan (East Lothian)
Hannah Bardell (Livingston)
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber)
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West)
John McNally (Falkirk)
John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire)
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire)
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North)
Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow)
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West)
Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw)
Martin John Docherty (West Dunbartonshire)
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk)
Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South)
Mike Weir (Angus)
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts)
Owen Thompson (Midlothian)
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran)
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North)
Paul Monaghan (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire)
Peter Grant (Glenrothes)
Philip Boswell (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill)
Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire)
Richard Arkless (Dumfries and Galloway)
Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde)
Stephen Gethins (North East Fife)
Steven Paterson (Stirling)
Stewart Hosie (Dundee East)
Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South)
Stuart Blair Donaldson (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)
Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East)
Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire)
Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East)

Conservatives:

Andrew Tyrie (Chichester)
David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden)
Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey)
John Baron (Basildon and Billericay)
Julian Lewis (New Forest East)
Philip Hollobone (Kettering)
Stephen McPartland (Stevenage)

Plaid Cymru:

Hywel Williams (Arfon)
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

SDLP:

Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South)
Margaret Ritchie (South Down)
Mark Durkan (Foyle)

Lib Dems:

Mark Williams (Ceredigion)
Norman Lamb (North Norfolk)

Independents:

Michelle Thomson (Edinburgh West)
Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East)

Greens:

Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion)

Spoiler: Abstentions

Conservatives:

Adam Holloway (Gravesham)
Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight)
Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
John Redwood (Wokingham)
Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe)
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes)
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)

Labour:

Jo Cox (Batley and Spen)
Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr)
Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
Steve Reed (Croydon North)
Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall)

Spoiler: Did Not Vote

Conservatives:

John Bercow (Buckingham) - Speaker
Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) - Deputy Speaker

Labour:

Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) - Unable to attend
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) - Unable to attend
Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley) - Deputy Speaker
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) - Unable to attend
Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) - Deputy Speaker
Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) - Unable to attend
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) - Unable to attend

Sinn Fein:

Francie Molloy (Mid Ulster)
Mickey Brady (Newry and Armagh)
Pat Doherty (West Tyrone)
Paul Maskey (Belfast West)

 

[ExigeEvan]

@Liquid - It'll never happen because often MPs are briefed on intelligence that is restricted above public consumption.

 

[Liquid]

@Liquid - It'll never happen because often MPs are briefed on intelligence that is restricted above public consumption.

I know, but I find the way referenda work in other countries to be quite interesting.

 

[Lizard]

What confuses me now is why Gainsborough has a Tory MP.

 

[Touring Mars]

Interesting to note that no Conservative voted against

There were 7 Tory MPs who voted against, including the chief of the Defence Committee Julian Lewis.

This is despite the fact that the Conservatives used the whip, and Labour didn't. I think everyone should have been allowed a free vote last night, and for that Jeremy Corbyn should be applauded.

Cameron does need to apologize for his disgraceful comments in the run up to yesterday's debate, but yesterday's debate was marred by the time and energy wasted by the opposition on trying to get one out of him, rather than staying focused on the debate at hand. Corbyn missed a great opportunity to rise above the playground taunts and instead delivered a limp performance, in sharp contrast to the passionate and forceful arguments of a number of colleagues on both sides of the debate.

 

[Liquid]

There were 7 Tory MPs who voted against, including the chief of the Defence Committee Julian Lewis.

My mistake. Retracted.

 

[ECGadget]

Okay, so Commons voted for with quite a majority. Fair enough. If my information is correct though, was there not a UK public majority who were against? Once again, I feel democracy has failed us because I feel that the 65 million or so of us were not fairly represented last night.

On another note, Jeremy Corbyn didn't do the best of jobs. Whether that is due to inexperience, the pressure of having a number of his party against him or the fact that he wants to change how things happen, I do not know. But in the future he really needs to do better.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Obviously this wouldn't have had that because (I believe) the government would have been defeated by the very people they're supposedly representing

If my information is correct though, was there not a UK public majority who were against?

According to YouGov's polling there isn't a majority for air strikes but nor is there one for opposition either, and for has led against over the past year or so, but with a marked drop in support recently:

Given the amount of don't knows a referendum could be a close call, but it seems more likely than not that there wouldn't be a clear majority against the government.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Made me laugh

 

[Dennisch]

Are you guys blown off the island yet?

Just read that they declared a code red for the most of Britain.