C&D Z06 vs F430 vs 997TT

[Poverty]

We thought the Z06 was expensive in the UK but in many european countries its even worse. They have to pay huge taxs' on theyre cars and seeing as the Z06 is 7 litres they have to pay extra tax on that too.

 

[ExigeEvan]

We thought the Z06 was expensive in the UK but in many european countries its even worse. They have to pay huge taxs' on theyre cars and seeing as the Z06 is 7 litres they have to pay extra tax on that too.

The Z06 isn't that expensive in the UK. It's just not the complete bargain that you'd get in the US. It still offers phenominal performance for a decent price though.

 

[Poverty]

Yes thats true, but the price knocks on the door of the 997 GT3.

 

[KSaiyu]

I don't know, it's less powerful than the 997TT so it probably wouldn't be as fast. But who's to say that it still wouldn't of beaten the F430.

Aye, less power but I'm pretty sure it's quicker than the turbo on the track.

 

[YSSMAN]

Chevrolet Corvette Z06: $65,640 (base)

Lotus Exige (no special models here): $50,990 (base)

Noble M400: There isn't an offical price because it is a kit-car in the US, but most models I've seen priced go between $85K and $95K.

...So yes, the "bargain" pricing on cars in Europe is flip-floped here in America.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Chevrolet Corvette Z06: $65,640 (base)

Lotus Exige (no special models here): $50,990 (base)

Noble M400: There isn't an offical price because it is a kit-car in the US, but most models I've seen priced go between $85K and $95K.

...So yes, the "bargain" pricing on cars in Europe is flip-floped here in America.

I expected the Noble to increase in cost, but that's alot higher than I expected.

 

[YSSMAN]

The one Noble M12 I had seen for sale new was listed at $91K fully assembeled with the new engine. You can buy the kits outright for less than $60K less engine and the rest of the driveterrain, but it would be up to you to figure out what to do in that situation.

...I wouldn't mind having one with small-block power, but thats just me...

 

[Mx²]

The BMW M5 would tune those 3 on the track.

But anyways, the Corvette is the king now, the next Viper really needs to get back up, and be the king again!

 

[YSSMAN]

M5 beating a Z06? I hope youre joking, otherwise we might have some problems down the road...

BTW: Welcome to GTPlanet!

 

[Swift]

M5 beating a Z06? I hope youre joking, otherwise we might have some problems down the road...

BTW: Welcome to GTPlanet!

Very true. While the M5 is very fast, it's weight would be a huge disadvantage against the Z06.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Well then you consider cost as well, and the fact that they are completely different cars, and its like pointing at a can of soup and telling me its an Apple...

 

[Swift]

...Well then you consider cost as well, and the fact that they are completely different cars, and its like pointing at a can of soup and telling me its an Apple...

Oh come on. It's not an apple, we all know it's a pineapple. Man, sheesh.

Yep, you're quite right. not even remotely in the same class. I mean, the M5 has a usuable backseat.

 

[///M-Spec]

Meh, it probably lost with the interior. The Corvette always loses because of it's interior... I'll find out when I get mine later this week...

.. you getting a new Corvette or the new C&D?

Here's a quick summary: lack of steering feel and linear response. Lack of ultimate balance at the limit --the car will switch from understeer to oversteer under power with only a fine line between attitudes. They also complained about some snap oversteer in the wet, which sounds like it may need more shock rebound in the rear. Cheap looking interior compared to the Porsche and Ferrari --though they backpedal on this a bit as say they will cut it some slack for also being the least expensive.

Based on what I've read, I think the car might be a good candidate for some shock tuning and harder bushings. Good steering feel is almost impossible to fix without changing the rack and front geometery, though. But hey, for the money I wouldn't complain too much.


M

 

[vectradriver]

I'm sorry but when will American's realise it isn't about lap-times and ultimate performance for road-based cars? The reason why the faster Z06 lost, is because it lacks the tactility of driving experience offered by the other two. Corvette's are made by Chevrolet. Porsche and Ferrari don't make saloon cars, all of their R&D money goes into making the best cars in the World, not a portion of their budget going into hugely fast cars with all the subtlety of a punch to the face.

 

[///M-Spec]

Me and this forum are finished. Good bye all.

I thought you were done?


M

 

[vectradriver]

No instead I thought I'd try and tell you the truth, despite coming against the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations. Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars. I think the trouble of Ford and GM signifies this pretty well. BMW and Porsche make profit. What is profit to the Big Three?

 

[Duke]

Porsche and Ferrari don't make saloon cars, all of their R&D money goes into making the best cars in the World, not a portion of their budget going into hugely fast cars with all the subtlety of a punch to the face.

No instead I thought I'd try and tell you the truth, despite coming against the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations. Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars.

I liked it better when you were done with this forum. You showed promise for a little while today, but as soon as you fall back into this kind of rhetoric, you're simply forfeiting your credibility.

 

[ExigeEvan]

No instead I thought I'd try and tell you the truth, despite coming against the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations. Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars. I think the trouble of Ford and GM signifies this pretty well. BMW and Porsche make profit. What is profit to the Big Three?

Americans can, and do make good cars.

The Z06 is a great car, the Mustang is a pretty good car. They are also helped by the fact they also offer tremendous value for money.

BMW and Porsche are highly profitable because of one thing. Badge premium. Porsche have built up a brand image that now enables them to sell good cars, and great car prices (E.g. Porsche boxster)

BMW have built good cars for a long time, but now some of their cars are questionable in the looks department (personally I like them), but this hasn't affected them like it would other manufacturers because most people are buying the badge on the bonnet.

 

[Mx²]

vectradriver, how can we except "Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars.", when it's clear that the Z06 outperforms the F430 and the 911 but falls short of interior, and handling;reason being why it lost. If our country is not good at making cars, can you explain how an "American car" seems to outperform the F430 and 911 Turbo by more than a small margin, yet for half the price, and you complain our country isn't even remotely good?

That's a good chuckle.

 

[Tornado]

BMW and Porsche make profit. What is profit to the Big Three?

BMW and Porsche would make profit if the engineers crapped in a jewel case and sold it as "The Sounds of an Automobile." I hope you realise that this Z06 that ran so close to your precious European cars costs half of what they cost. Maybe that will explain why Porsche an Ferrari make so much profit.

 

[Swift]

No instead I thought I'd try and tell you the truth, despite coming against the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations. Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars. I think the trouble of Ford and GM signifies this pretty well. BMW and Porsche make profit. What is profit to the Big Three?

Making cars or making sports cars? Because if you're talking just cars in general then this is the wrong thread and a heck of a long discussion.

To be honest, the vette beats the other cars just because of price point. The sheer fact that they can offer a car that can, for all instensive purposes, keep up with a Ferrari and a Porsche Turbo is amazing. I don't know about you, but to me THAT is excellent engineering. You have to understand that the vette and the Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo/Bugati/Mazerati, etc are aimed at two completely different markets.

So obviously it's not going to have that absolute refinement of a Porscher of Ferrari. But it will flat out own ANYTHING in it's price range. Even the Viper is second to the ZO6 now.

 

[Mx²]

So obviously it's not going to have that absolute refinement of a Porscher of Ferrari. But it will flat out own ANYTHING in it's price range. Even the Viper is second to the ZO6 now.

Not for long. When that McLaren tuned Viper hits the road, it'll be all good!

 

[Tornado]

And then the Blue Devil comes out.

 

[Swift]

Ok guys. As much as I agree with all that's been said. Let's try not to crucify this guy(myself included)

 

[Duke]

But wait, guys, these cars are not sophisticated and refined enough to be acceptable. Since they are American cars, they are nothing but penis extensions for a nation of ignorant, arrogant boors.

And some of them even have - horrors - pushrods in the engine!

 

[ExigeEvan]

But wait, guys, these cars are not sophisticated and refined enough to be acceptable. Since they are American cars, they are nothing but penis extensions for a nation of ignorant, arrogant boors.

And some of them even have - horrors - pushrods in the engine!

*Ding ding ding*

What does he win, Jonny?

 

[JCE]

Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars.

Considering the fact that the vast majority of "American" cars are actually not American. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have started using not only Japanese influence but European influence as well. The average "American" car has improved it's quality both inside and out by leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. And it only gets better. So don't go generalizing about something you obviously know nothing about.

 

[Swift]

Ok guys. As much as I agree with all that's been said. Let's try not to crucify this guy(myself included)

Oh well, so much for that.

 

[Duke]

Oh well, so much for that.

Yeah, I saw that, but I was having too much fun. But you must admit that he brought much of it upon himself. I find it highly amusing that the person who said this:

[T]he abilities of US cars are far behind EU and Nippon vehicles. Hence fewer to choose from that are worthy of being raced.

...now finds the reaction to that (and later statements) to be:

the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations.

Perhaps we react that way because some people insist on making statements like:

Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars.

Coincidence? I think not. And for the record, sir, I currently own a BMW, an Acura, a Dodge, and a Pontiac. So please refrain from telling me my opinion is "typical Yankee who-ha".

 

[///M-Spec]

No instead I thought I'd try and tell you the truth, despite coming against the usual Yankee who-ha that always occurs in these situations. Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars. I think the trouble of Ford and GM signifies this pretty well. BMW and Porsche make profit. What is profit to the Big Three?

The truth is that most Americans aren't especially interested in handling, agility and driver involvement in their automobiles. Therefore, the US Big Three don't focus on delivering those type of products.

Of course, because YOU value these qualities in an automobile, you make an egocentric, narrow-minded presumption that these qualities constitute "the best" qualities. Therefore the US manufactuers in question who don't cater to your tastes, but to those of *gasp* average Americans must somehow be worse than the ones that do.

It's like an American complaining that the Japanese can't make a good chilli-cheese hamburger. For someone ranting over Yankee who-ha, you've sure brought plenty of your own to the table.

As for the profitability of Ford and GM, the issue is far more complex than the state of the product. It has more to do with years of mismanagment and short sighted planning than actual engineering capability. There are plenty of good threads here that detail the financial situation of these companies and most of them have nothing to do with engineering or production. I advise you do a search and read up on them.

Of course, some people will always take or assume the simple, easy to chew bite-sized explanation, rather than try to understand a larger, more complex issue.

Chinese proverb: Everything simple to a simpleton.


M