C&D Z06 vs F430 vs 997TT

[Poverty]

so you don't like them and that should allow you to determine who can and can't drive them?

I seriously wish WE would ban SUV's

My father has a Series III Land Rover and a Disco, can you please define exactly what qualities he needs to be classed as someone who really requires them?Additionally exactly what purpose whould banning them have? Could we please see a list of possitive benefits banning all SUVs would have?

Ive had this conversation so often I cant be bothered wit it anymore. But if you wish you can tell me what he uses them for and I could tell you wheter I gthink there would be a different vehicle better suited to do the job.

PS. I have no "beef" with discos and landrover drivers, I hate drivers of barely capable grass and gravel SUV's such as X5 yummy mummies.

 

[Scaff]

Ive had this conversation so often I cant be bothered wit it anymore. But if you wish you can tell me what he uses them for and I could tell you wheter I gthink there would be a different vehicle better suited to do the job.

PS. I have no "beef" with discos and landrover drivers, I hate drivers of barely capable grass and gravel SUV's such as X5 yummy mummies.

Fitted with the correct tyres the X5 is quite capable off road (not to the same degree as a Land Rover).

However it does illustrate the laughable nature of banning a certain type of car or vehicle.

Why does it actually matter what my Father does for a living? Should he not have a free choice to drive whatever is availiable for sale in the UK? As he runs a scaffolding company he already has a number of other vehicls for than purpose.

Why would he also want to listen to your recomendations on what he should drive? What exactly qualifies you (or anyone else) to make that choice?

You also can't say that you want SUVs banned or taxed off the road and then say that Landies and Discos are OK. Well you can, but why not come along to a Land River show and say it, should be interesting. There is one at the end of August if you want details.

In closing I would also advise that if you don't want to have a conversation of this nature, then don;t post comments that invite them.

Scaff

 

[JCE]

And JCE, which nationality should we call you then? Does illegal immigrant fit? Don't take that as any offense or anything (unless you are), because if you live here permanently like I'm sure you do, you're an American. If you don't like it you can move to Canada or some third world country.

Whoa slow down, just because I wasn't born here but live here "permanently" doesn't mean I'm an American--oh quite the contrary. You really think I had a choice to live here as an infant? Give me $20k for moving expenses and I'll happily move back to Germany no questions asked (hell England or Australia would suit me just fine). So what nationality should you call me? Call me a human just like you and the rest of the world. I'd arguably call you an illegal immigrant too by the way, there is no such thing as a "legal" or "illegal" immigrant--there is "wanted" and "unwanted" immigrants. Most "Americans" came from somewhere else either by choice or not. Also, you can't tell me with a straight face that your entire genetic history started out on North America because it most certainly didn't. Not even the *cough* "Native" Americans are from North America, they migrated from Asia and or South America. Oh and what's great about immigration is there was no paperwork to fill out or procedures to undertake 100+ years ago so anyone could and did come in on boats and populate the country. Anyway I'm done with this offtopic nonesense. We're here to discuss cars not nationalities.

PS. I have no "beef" with discos and landrover drivers, I hate drivers of barely capable grass and gravel SUV's such as X5 yummy mummies.

Somehow a naughty thought popped into my head when I read "yummy mummies".

 

[TheCracker]

Why does it actually matter what my Father does for a living? Should he not have a free choice to drive whatever is availiable for sale in the UK? As he runs a scaffolding company he already has a number of other vehicls for than purpose.

So this is where the name originates then does it?

 

[Scaff]

So this is where the name originates then does it?

It is indeed

Scaff = One who scaffolds (or did on occation in the past if its me), my user name is indeed for my dad.

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Fitted with the correct tyres the X5 is quite capable off road

The X5 is a laughing stock when it comes to offroading. Even hardcore BMW fans openly admit to it being so.

Why does it actually matter what my Father does for a living?

It doesnt, it could be required for a hobby.

Why would he also want to listen to your recomendations on what he should drive? What exactly qualifies you (or anyone else) to make that choice?

No ones puttin a gun to his head, and if that is a case no one should offer advice on something they dont have a degree in.

You also can't say that you want SUVs banned or taxed off the road and then say that Landies and Discos are OK.

Your right I want them taxed out my city.

In closing I would also advise that if you don't want to have a conversation of this nature, then don;t post comments that invite them.

Alternatively I could stop conversing.

 

[TheCracker]

It is indeed

Scaff = One who scaffolds (or did on occation in the past if its me), my user name is indeed for my dad.

Scaff

I guess it beats using your dog's nickname for your username.

 

[Scaff]

Your right I want them taxed out my city.

Its your city now?

Oh no I've just realised who you are!!

Lives in London, hates SUVs, wants to tax people out of cars, wants to tell people what to drive.

Your Ken Livingstone!!!!

As far as I'm aware everyone who lives in London has the right to buy and drive what they wish, attempting to force choice on anyone in this regard is something that I will not agree on at all.

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Were forced on everything else, so they could atleast force something the majority of Londoners want, especially seeing as we pretty much subsidise the rest of the UK.

 

[niky]

RE: SUV issue? Not the place for it, but I've finally come to terms with it.

I don't like SUVs. I don't like the fact that a lot of people I see driving SUVs don't need them. BUT: you could make the same case against cars in general...

From a car driver's point of view, SUV owners use 100% more gas than necessary....

From a supermini owner's point of view, car owners use 50% more gas than necessary...

From a biker's point of view, any car owner uses 100-200% more gas than necessary...

And from a cyclist/runner's point of view, any gas used is sinful.

So, who are we to say what's right and what's wrong? The best argument against SUVs (pollution, fuel consumption, you don't need them, etcetera) can be levelled against anyone who uses any means of transportation... even public transport...

Or even against anyone who uses electricity generated by coal... ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

So... I don't like SUVs, but that's personal, and I don't think banning them is the solution. The solution is what's happening now... people realizing that they're too big and expensive, and just not buying them. Problem solved. The only people left with SUVs will be people who will actually use them as UTILITY vehicles. Everyone's happy.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Were forced on everything else, so they could atleast force something the majority of Londoners want, especially seeing as we pretty much subsidise the rest of the UK.

Okay you've pushed it soo far now I've got to ask...






...Did you once go by the user name Young_Warrior?

 

[TheCracker]

Especially seeing as we pretty much subsidise the rest of the UK.

In what way?

 

[Scaff]

Were forced on everything else, so they could atleast force something the majority of Londoners want, especially seeing as we pretty much subsidise the rest of the UK.

Could you please provide some hard independent data (and that means not the Lord Mayors office or Transport for London) that shows that the majority of Londoners want it?

Good to hear that you think (allegedly) subsidising the rest of us no good slackers, I could argue that in terms of taxes I am doing the same to anyone who earns less than me (and therefore pays less tax) or lives in a house in a lower tax braket than me.

Its a poor argument at best, and now very off topic.


Scaff

 

[Poverty]

In what way?

Our taxes end up all over the UK. Sporting event in manchester? Us londoners get to foot the bill etc. Supposedly £2,000 woth of taxes per head from london goes to subsidise the rest of the UK. (what Ive been told on a subaru forum by members having a tories VS labour war)

We are straying way off topic now though from the road test, and the relevance is slight to get SUV's taxed.

Good to hear that you think (allegedly) subsidising the rest of us no good slackers,

Its the governments fault for making the country so dependant on London. One major terrorist attack on our capital and we could be seriously screwed.

Did you once go by the user name Young_Warrior?

 

[TheCracker]

Our taxes end up all over the UK. Sporting event in manchester? Us londoners get to foot the bill etc. Supposedly £2,000 woth of taxes per head from london goes to subsidise the rest of the UK. (what Ive been told on a subaru forum by members having a tories VS labour war)

Taxes all go to the government. The government then uses that money to spend on whatever nationwide, the armed forces, the NHS, etc, etc. London is just a city like any other - it's residents tax money doesn't get put to one side to be spent on just 'Londeners stuff'

Your average subaru owner, from what i've seen, probably isn't the world's leading economics expert.

 

[Poverty]

Taxes all go to the government. The government then uses that money to spend on whatever nationwide, the armed forces, the NHS, etc, etc. London is just a city like any other - it's residents tax money doesn't get put to one side to be spent on just 'Londeners stuff'

I dont know how it all works, so I think I'll leave it at that, and see what some of the more life experienced members (famine?) have to say.

 

[YSSMAN]

I drive a Vectra because it is my Dad's car. Yes I do enjoy it, but while it is average, it has still been tuned to handle better than the equivalent American car. The Vectra's strength is grip, because understeer isn't really a problem on most corners. Yes it has sloppy steering, but it can get through corners with little drama.

This has to be one of the funniest things I've read on this site in a while. So when you complain about American cars that "don't handle correctly," you attempt to convince us that your Vectra only has a little Understeer?

Seriously, we know how the Vectra handles as it is sold in the United States three times over. Weve got the Malibu (a softened version of the Vectra), the G6 (about the same as the Vectra, maybe a titch softer depending on the model) and soon the Aura (A DIRECT COPY OF THE EUROPEAN MARKET VECTRA).

So don't go on about how the Vectra outdoes it's American competition, as clearly, its allready here!

Yes there may be cars that can hang with Ferrari's in America, but thats in America. When it comes to corners, the Ferrari would be able to handle its power output far better than some of these cars that could hang with it in a straight line. Ferrari isn't a company about outright speed. They have an understanding of what makes a car great beyond its sheer speed.

You do realise that the Z06 pulls more latteral G's than the F430, right? I mean we are talking about 1.01g versus 0.97 here. Added to that, the Corvette out-brakes the F430 too, 146 feet in 70-0 as compared to the Ferrari at 162 feet.

The Corvette came out on top at the track (Papenburg Handeling Course in Deutschland) not because of it's ability to go really fast in a straight line, but also because it did everything the Ferrari and Porsche could do, but better as well. We are talking about a 1:15:85 lap for the Z06 as compared to the F430 at 1:18:20. THATS THREE SECONDS!!! THATS AN ETERNITY ON A RACETRACK!!!

Chevrolet knows what they are doing with the Corvette, as they have been doing it for 53 years now. The car is pretty well balance, and offers up world-class performance at a bargain price. I've driven Corvettes, Vipers, and even 911s, and by far the Corvette is the best option there. It offers real-world driveability for a price that isn't too bad, and performance that can match the best of Europe and squash the best from Japan.

...So I'm confused by your assessment that a Corvette doesn't handle correctly. Power oversteer happens when you have 505 BHP on tap, and quite frankly, be a man and suck it up if it happens. Thats part of the fun when driving, IMO, so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

BTW: How can you make an assessment on a Corvette when it is pretty clear you haven't driven one?

 

[Dave A]

Really? - i see thousands on a daily basis, and i'm only on the other side of the 'hills' to you.

Yep, there's pretty much no Jeep's in Manchester and when I go over to Mansfield I'm not normally looking out for the cars, I'm normally in a pub or something wth the familly. I may have seen a few around there but not taken any notice.

So I'm confused by your assessment that a Corvette doesn't handle correctly. Power oversteer happens when you have 505 BHP on tap, and quite frankly, be a man and suck it up if it happens. Thats part of the fun when driving, IMO, so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think he needs reminding that the M3 is more than capable of power oversteer too, a hell of a lot of rwd cars are, so I don't see any of vectradrivers logic here.

 

[TheCracker]

Yep, there's pretty much no Jeep's in Manchester and when I go over to Mansfield I'm not normally looking out for the cars, I'm normally in a pub or something wth the familly. I may have seen a few around there but not taken any notice.

Really? - no Cherokees or Grand Cherokees?

 

[Duke]

Re: The Corvette's interior sucking.

Actually, the Corvette has an optional interior far superior to the Porsche's or the Ferrari's. For the price of an F430, you could buy a Z06 and an interior of an Audi A8L. This is handy because the interior also comes attached to a car. With the leftover money you can also have a BMW 325i for your grocery runs at Costco and a Yamaha YZF-R1, which you can use to suck the headlights right out of both the Corvette and Ferrari.


M

Oh. My. Gosh. That's the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a looooooong time. Thanks, ///M! If it wasn't so long, that would become my new sig.

 

[1X83Z]

I'm not quite sure how accurate it is:

Ferrari F430 = $168000

Chevrolet Corvette Z06: $64900
Audi A8L: $72100
BMW 325i: $30900
Yamaha YZF-R1: ~$14000 (total: $181900)

And that doesn't include the markups on the Z06s. Still - it'd certainly get you an F430 Spider - with about $11000 left over. Point well taken though - hard for anyone to argue with that. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

^ WORD

Meh, I dunno. After reading the article I do agree with C/D by the end of the day that the Z06 should finish last on a few things, but the performance of the car combined with the cheap price speaks for itself. It finished seven points behind the 1st place Ferrari, six points behind the 2nd place Porsche. Thats still good news for America, as it proves we can build a truely kick-ass car that can nearly wipe the floor with cars that cost twice as much.

 

[Duke]

Thats still good news for America, as it proves we can build a truely kick-ass car that can nearly wipe the floor with cars that cost twice as much.

Let's put it another way: I could buy a pair of Z06s, leave one bone stock for a daily driver, go to performance driving school, and build the other Z06 into a track day beast that would slaughter the Ferrari and the Porsche... or I could buy the Ferrari.

 

[Poverty]

or a ultima and have arguably the fastest car in the world

 

[Dave A]

Let's put it another way: I could buy a pair of Z06s, leave one bone stock for a daily driver, go to performance driving school, and build the other Z06 into a track day beast that would slaughter the Ferrari and the Porsche... or I could buy the Ferrari.

You couldn't over here, though the Z06 is still notably cheaper.

 

[speed_demon]

firstly the z06 has a much bigger engine that produces only slightly more than the european cars so thats round one to the european engineers

secondly both of the european cars handle much better than the american

thirdly the build quality and realiability are much better in the european cars

the european cars look much nicer

the Z06 is the top of the range car for america whereas the porsche and ferrari are the cheaper versions of european top end cars and so althougth they all might be in the same power band they really shouldnt be compared as the Z06 should be compared to the ferrari enzo, pagani zonda f, porsche carrera GT, maseatti mc12, buggati veyron etc as these are the european top end cars so this is what the Z06 should be compared to

yes finaly a point to the americans the Z06 is cheap but then again its cheap because its made out of plastic and will break down so often youll end up spending about the same amount of money on repairs as just buying the ferrari or porsche in the first place

 

[Tornado]

firstly the z06 has a much bigger engine that produces only slightly more than the european cars so thats round one to the european engineers

And, of course as a rule European cars are so much cheaper to maintain, right?

secondly both of the european cars handle much better than the american

Already debunked in every possible way.

thirdly the build quality and realiability are much better in the european cars

I introduce you to Alfa Romeo and Land Rover, not to mention the Ferrari 348.

the european cars look much nicer

Completely and totally subjective. I personally think that the current Ferrari's were designed by a blind man. I would say Bangle but they don't have his trademarks. And the Porsche isn't exactly a ground breaking car style-wise.

the Z06 is the top of the range car for america whereas the porsche and ferrari are the cheaper versions of european top end cars and so althougth they all might be in the same power band they really shouldnt be compared as the Z06 should be compared to the ferrari enzo, pagani zonda f, porsche carrera GT, maseatti mc12, buggati veyron etc as these are the european top end cars so this is what the Z06 should be compared to

That is just so asinine it doesn't make sense. Not only is the Z06 not the fastest American car, it is also just a stupid plan. Compare the Z06 to the Enzo because they are both the fastest cars developed by their countries? What speed are you talking about with your avatar?

yes finaly a point to the americans the Z06 is cheap but then again its cheap because its made out of plastic and will break down so often youll end up spending about the same amount of money on repairs as just buying the ferrari or porsche in the first place

Oh, I've figured it out now. Your an idiot. Good day.

 

[speed_demon]

never said they are the fastest cars produced by their countries as the enzo isnt the best itallian car imo secondly i never said the new ferraries were nice i said the 430 and 997 looked nicer
land rover isnt a sport car maker alfa romeo are more luxury cars
i didnt say as a rule but in general porsches rarely break down same as ferraries and american cars arent exactly known for their build quality

And the Porsche isn't exactly a ground breaking car style-wise.
and what the Z06 is or somethin

the porsche and ferrari are alot easier to handle unless your somne kind proffesional driver who can keep the rear wheels in check on the Z06(this isnt because of its "power" its because of its differetial) and so for the normal people who will be buyin them they will handle much better

the Z06 may not be the fastest american car but it is one of the top end ones and i was just mentioning a few of the top end cars in europe but if you like then compare it to other euro cars such as the gallardo (cant remember how to spell it) because this isnt a top end car it costs less than the porsche and the ferrari has more power than both and can keep up with both on the bends

 

[Duke]

firstly the z06 has a much bigger engine that produces only slightly more than the european cars so thats round one to the european engineers

secondly both of the european cars handle much better than the american

thirdly the build quality and realiability are much better in the european cars

the european cars look much nicer

the Z06 is the top of the range car for america whereas the porsche and ferrari are the cheaper versions of european top end cars and so althougth they all might be in the same power band they really shouldnt be compared as the Z06 should be compared to the ferrari enzo, pagani zonda f, porsche carrera GT, maseatti mc12, buggati veyron etc as these are the european top end cars so this is what the Z06 should be compared to

yes finaly a point to the americans the Z06 is cheap but then again its cheap because its made out of plastic and will break down so often youll end up spending about the same amount of money on repairs as just buying the ferrari or porsche in the first place

Wow, if Toronado hadn't alrady done such an excellent job responding to this post, I'd have to do it myself. This wins the prize for "Least Accurate and Most Poorly Considered Post On the Automotive Board".

Really, think twice before posting blather like this again. Save yourself the embarassment.

 

[87chevy]

Just accept that your country isn't even remotely good at making cars.

wow, and your from the UK? that's hilarious.