Can a car brake into a corner with ABS like in the game in real life?

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What I want to know if in real life braking hard without ABS is really that hard. I mean, do you really don't get any kind of signal? In GT5 with the G27 pedals the only signal of tyre lock-up is that tyre screeching sound that means "Oh dear, you're already skidding out of control". I don't know where I got the idea that in real life the brake pedal hardens as it gets close to lock up, is this true? Is it a matter of lack of feedback?

You'll only get realistic answers from people who've driven on the track. Driving on the street you will never in 99.9999% of cases drive like you do in Gran Turismo.

Without ABS, yes, you can easily feel when the wheels lock up, you can also feel feedback through the pedal and wheel to tell more or less where the limit is, although it's not easy imo.

In terms of braking while cornering, imo, you never want to do it. Anytime you are braking you are reducing the cornering grip of your tyres. Depending on how hard you are braking, it will reduce your cornering power. If you are at the limit of your braking power, no, you will not be able to turn. It's pretty simple.

ABS theoretically is worse at braking than a professional driver. A professional driver can hold the brake on the very limit, whereas a car with ABS will go on off, on off the brakes, reducing braking efficiency. In this case, with ABS it's again theoretically possible to see that you have a little buffer of extra grip not being used for braking, which you could use for cornering. Although personally, I think braking in corners is madness... or at least it's ineffecient and slower.
 
You'll only get realistic answers from people who've driven on the track. Driving on the street you will never in 99.9999% of cases drive like you do in Gran Turismo.

Without ABS, yes, you can easily feel when the wheels lock up, you can also feel feedback through the pedal and wheel to tell more or less where the limit is, although it's not easy imo.

In terms of braking while cornering, imo, you never want to do it. Anytime you are braking you are reducing the cornering grip of your tyres. Depending on how hard you are braking, it will reduce your cornering power. If you are at the limit of your braking power, no, you will not be able to turn. It's pretty simple.

ABS theoretically is worse at braking than a professional driver. A professional driver can hold the brake on the very limit, whereas a car with ABS will go on off, on off the brakes, reducing braking efficiency. In this case, with ABS it's again theoretically possible to see that you have a little buffer of extra grip not being used for braking, which you could use for cornering. Although personally, I think braking in corners is madness... or at least it's ineffecient and slower.
Well, ABS shouldn't actually have any effect on cornering, because while I disagree with the blanket statement "braking should never be done while cornering", braking should be progressively lighter on corner entrance. As you turn into a corner, the brakes should be eased off, if all braking is completed before you start to turn, you'll lose gobs of time to better drivers, IRL or GT5.
 
The principles of good driving, whether on or off the track, require that you do all your slowing down - braking, gear changing - before a corner, hold your power level and steady into the corner for about 25% of the distance, and then accelerate for the rest of the way. Racing is simply a matter of being at the right speed, in the right gear, and in the case of GT5, getting clear of the pack as quickly as possible.

ABS - if you have got it, learn to use it. The A stands for anti-lock, which means you steer the car while braking heavily, but if your point of vision is as far ahead of you as sight permits, instances of heavy braking occur only at the end of straight sections of track that have a corner, bend or chicane at the end of it.

It is hard to determine whether the ABS setting in GT5 should be 1 or 10; I am damned if I can tell any difference. I set it at 10; it suits my driving style to have it there.
 
...
In my race car I removed ABS. I can use the brakes to manipulate the car, in ways that I could never do with ABS. Also, in a rainy race situation, ABS can cause problems. I'm 100% positive that I don't want a computer taking the pressure off the brakes when it feels the wheels start to slip. I want total control of my car, and I want to be able to judge when the car is slipping.

...
But I know everybody likes to think their driving skill is better than any computer aid, so I know I'm arguing against a wall right now, deaf ears, as they say.

Told ya. :sly:

It's comparable to thinking you can pull a trigger on a semi-automatic AR-15 and fire bullets as quickly as an M-16.

I don't think he was saying he is better than ABS, more that he prefers to have more direct control over the car. ABS is technically an intervention, and is difficult if not impossible to tweak. If your ABS system is giving you jip in certain corners, what do you do about it?
A simple mod can allow you to adjust the brake balance of most cars on the fly, allowing you to tailor the car for a variety of corner entries. However, ABS will nullify any brake bias shift to some extent since it will always operate to its own internal bias, so you need to adjust the ABS as well - again, this is difficult.

The other thing is the fact that the car can more easily (or rather, predictably) be steered on the brakes without ABS. ABS would clamp down on this because it's unstable behaviour, despite the fact the driver desires it. Sometimes it's better to overcome the tyres momentarily to achieve superior direction change than to constantly dance inside the limit. Again, ABS can be tweaked to allow this behaviour (yaw), but it's difficult.
Which raises another issue: ABS can be unpredictable in changeable conditions, or in different corner types. Ordinary brakes will feel more or less the same in any condition.

It's like firing the M16 in full auto, when all you want is a single shot.
 
I don't think he was saying he is better than ABS, more that he prefers to have more direct control over the car. ABS is technically an intervention, and is difficult if not impossible to tweak. If your ABS system is giving you jip in certain corners, what do you do about it?
A simple mod can allow you to adjust the brake balance of most cars on the fly, allowing you to tailor the car for a variety of corner entries. However, ABS will nullify any brake bias shift to some extent since it will always operate to its own internal bias, so you need to adjust the ABS as well - again, this is difficult.

The other thing is the fact that the car can more easily (or rather, predictably) be steered on the brakes without ABS. ABS would clamp down on this because it's unstable behaviour, despite the fact the driver desires it. Sometimes it's better to overcome the tyres momentarily to achieve superior direction change than to constantly dance inside the limit. Again, ABS can be tweaked to allow this behaviour (yaw), but it's difficult.
Which raises another issue: ABS can be unpredictable in changeable conditions, or in different corner types. Ordinary brakes will feel more or less the same in any condition.

It's like firing the M16 in full auto, when all you want is a single shot.
You've missed the point entirely.
You shouldn't be locking the wheels entering a corner, nor mid-corner. ABS should not have a factor.
Threshold braking can be done with any properly functioning ABS, because ABS only activates when one or more wheels start to lock.

So any statement that ABS will hinder cornering in any way means the person saying it either isn't racing, or isn't racing properly.

ABS is there for when you exceed the threshold.
If you exceed the threshold, and activate your ABS, you can't really say you're braking properly now can you?
 
I think we are quite OT. It is not to discuss the benefits of ABS or the likes of different drivers. The question is "Can a car brake into a corner with ABS like in the game in real life?"

The answer is: Yes. Only difference is that in real life You get better feedback of the front tires exceeding Kamm's circle.
 
You've missed the point entirely.
You shouldn't be locking the wheels entering a corner, nor mid-corner. ABS should not have a factor.
Threshold braking can be done with any properly functioning ABS, because ABS only activates when one or more wheels start to lock.

So any statement that ABS will hinder cornering in any way means the person saying it either isn't racing, or isn't racing properly.

ABS is there for when you exceed the threshold.
If you exceed the threshold, and activate your ABS, you can't really say you're braking properly now can you?

Except that threshold implies maximum grip, which requires slip - a certain degree of locking - about 9% depending on the tyre / surface. I would wager most passenger cars allow less than this so that by the time the brakes have reacted, you've not crossed over too far into the slippy zone. So, actually, ABS is constantly (repeatedly) exceeding the threshold. And by your own logic, if you're braking properly, you don't need ABS ;)

Besides, you missed my point: sometimes you want to exceed the limit. It's about control, predictability - even when you're technically "out of control".
ABS cannot guarantee this because its behaviour will depend on the specific conditions, although it is generally much safer on the road. Passenger car ABS is generally not optimised for circuit racing so it will do things that will frustrate the circuit racer. Ordinary brakes feel the same regardless of the corner, so they are preferable from a consistency standpoint.

Not to mention, many people race for enjoyment, and so removing ABS is simply a preference.
 
The question is not whether you should drive with ABS or without it's whether it is realistic in the game where you can slam on the brakes and brake through mid corner when with ABS. Can you also do this in real life with a car that has ABS which I personally do not know having never used ABS in a racing situation in real life since I don't race in real life.

Yes, you can brake into corners like a devil on LSD with ABS, same in real life. That´s what ABS is for: pretending the wheels from locking. So no matter, how hard you brake, your wheels never lock and you can turn in much easier, especially if you drive modern cars with improved ABS systems.

What I don´t understand it, why you are talking about driving with ABS, while you have set it to 0, which means, that it is deactivated.

On my DFP, I almost always set ABS to 0 and brake balance to 4:2 or 3:1. And my pedals are so sensitive, that I never can push the pedal to the bottom at middle to low speed without locking the wheels.

So how can you drive with 7:4 and ABS=0?
 
So how can you drive with 7:4 and ABS=0?

I started with 7:4 and it's doable but you just have to be very gentle. I don't know how the pedals are on the dfp but on the g25 the brake is quite stiff so it's easy to be gentle.

But nevertheless I've found you get the same result with 4:1 but you can push the pedal further giving you more control.
 
On ABS, do people use it for the GT-R trophy or leave it off? I find that no ABS can be a pain when I want to hit the cars limit.
 
I've driven race cars both with and without ABS. my conclusion is that total stopping distances (in an "oh crap look what I just did" type of situation) is much better with ABS, but I also understand the preference of wanting to do it yourself. I know guys with 600 hp corvettes that have taken ABS completely off. (nuts). However in general I agree with CS. Especially if u don't have R compound tires. ie autocrossing.
 
But I know everybody likes to think their driving skill is better than any computer aid, so I know I'm arguing against a wall right now, deaf ears, as they say.

THIS!

I spend a lot of time on the road (driving for work and then driving for fun) and from what I see, the "average" driver is abysmally bad. And it seems everyone is really good when you browse forums (here, or any car club).

I do know a couple of real good drivers for the road (a pleasure to ride with them on roadtrips) and on the track (some amateur, some pros) and most of them (all except one in fact) trust ABS and computers to do the work better than them.

but the average driver is better...:)
 
Before GT5 (and indeed this forum) I left driving aids untouched, so was probably using a lot of TCS, ASM and whatnot in GT4. For GT5 I got used to switching everything off, but I still leave the ABS at 1 as I use a DS3 and whilst I can just about deal with throttle control without always using the dab/pump method (I still struggle with power oversteer though particularly in some of the seasonals), it's a different story with the brakes and I keep locking them up.

However I know this is wholly unrealistic and if I had a wheel/pedals I would switch it off. In a real life scenario if you slam the brakes on fully without ABS the wheels will lock and you will skid, so it's kinda funny that it's generally seen as acceptable in these parts to leave it at 1, even for old cars that never had such technology.

EDIT - That said, i would never call anyone out for using it, different strokes for different folks, people can use what they want, that's what the variable settings are there for.
 
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What I want to know if in real life braking hard without ABS is really that hard. I mean, do you really don't get any kind of signal? In GT5 with the G27 pedals the only signal of tyre lock-up is that tyre screeching sound that means "Oh dear, you're already skidding out of control". I don't know where I got the idea that in real life the brake pedal hardens as it gets close to lock up, is this true? Is it a matter of lack of feedback?

So, I think you forget to think about your G27 pedals. There isn´t any hydraulics or similar which simulates the force while braking.

A real car brake pedal system interacts with your car while braking and gives you a lot of information about what you tires and brakes are doing. It hardens, it rumbles, it gets stiff or soft...whatever.

That isn´t comparable with your video game pedal, which is just a metal and plastic construction with a cable to signal, when your are accelerating or braking.
 
Except that threshold implies maximum grip, which requires slip - a certain degree of locking - about 9% depending on the tyre / surface. I would wager most passenger cars allow less than this so that by the time the brakes have reacted, you've not crossed over too far into the slippy zone.
Some ABS systems can cycle up to 15 times per second. :sly:

So, actually, ABS is constantly (repeatedly) exceeding the threshold. And by your own logic, if you're braking properly, you don't need ABS ;)
Are we talking once you enter a corner, or just full-blown stopping distance?
Typically, no, if you're driving like a professional you might never need it.
If you're going straight and trying to stop as quickly as possible, well, show me a non-abs equipped car that out brakes a new Vette or Viper.
Hint: you ain't gonna find it.

Besides, you missed my point: sometimes you want to exceed the limit. It's about control, predictability - even when you're technically "out of control".
Unless you're referring to intentionally bringing the rear around in an under-steering car, no, no you don't want to exceed the threshold.


ABS cannot guarantee this because its behaviour will depend on the specific conditions, although it is generally much safer on the road. Passenger car ABS is generally not optimised for circuit racing so it will do things that will frustrate the circuit racer. Ordinary brakes feel the same regardless of the corner, so they are preferable from a consistency standpoint.
ABS only activates after the wheel is slipping, so even if your abs activates at 8% slip, it would then save you tire wear at the least, this is assuming abs on any circuit driven cars activates that early.

Not to mention, many people race for enjoyment, and so removing ABS is simply a preference.
I don't have a problem if people deactivate their abs, I just have zero evidence it will improve any lap times on a road course.
 
So, I think you forget to think about your G27 pedals. There isn´t any hydraulics or similar which simulates the force while braking.

This I do know, and I've thought about it. No need to be harsh :crazy:.

A real car brake pedal system interacts with your car while braking and gives you a lot of information about what you tires and brakes are doing. It hardens, it rumbles, it gets stiff or soft...whatever.

That's what I wasn't sure about and what I was asking for, thanks 👍. So, it isn't realistic the level of difficulty you get driving GT5 with ABS off given that you don't have enough feedback. Am I right?

Read a lot. Get on track, learn from guys who are much better than you (there are a lot of guys much better than me... :grin: ) and drive as many different kinds of cars as possible. Thankfully, my second job allows me the chance to drive dozens of different cars I would never have had the chance to drive in the first place.

I've had less track time over the past three or four years than I'd like, but that can't be helped.

There's no better teacher than experience... and I've had the unique opportunity to sample everything from the most primitive of ABS systems up to the most sophisticated and modern ones. Some ABS systems on modern cars are so good that they can actually stop you much quicker than threshold and cadence braking by allowing just enough lock-up to ensure wickedly short stopping distances.[/B]

Well, I guess it's not to late yet for me and the road to learning surely sounds fun 👍. Thanks a lot Niky :gtpflag:.
 
That's what I wasn't sure about and what I was asking for, thanks 👍. So, it isn't realistic the level of difficulty you get driving GT5 with ABS off given that you don't have enough feedback. Am I right?

Correct. Not even close. It's 100 times easier IRL.
 
OK8
I always race with abs0 if I'm driving my own cars but from time to time I drive a car where I can't adjust the brake balance so I have to use it and it sure makes a difference. It's soo easy to turn in while still having the brake to the floor it's ridiculous and you can push your braking points later and later.

I very much doubt there is an abs system this good in any real car.

Yh but if ur gonna brake that l8 then ur corner exit speed is compromised...wen tackling a corner, the important things are entrance speed and exit speed speed..this is important for a fast lap...however wen overtaking, braking l8 as l8 as possible is the best option...
 
Some ABS systems can cycle up to 15 times per second. :sly:

Are we talking once you enter a corner, or just full-blown stopping distance?
Typically, no, if you're driving like a professional you might never need it.
If you're going straight and trying to stop as quickly as possible, well, show me a non-abs equipped car that out brakes a new Vette or Viper.
Hint: you ain't gonna find it.

Unless you're referring to intentionally bringing the rear around in an under-steering car, no, no you don't want to exceed the threshold.


ABS only activates after the wheel is slipping, so even if your abs activates at 8% slip, it would then save you tire wear at the least, this is assuming abs on any circuit driven cars activates that early.

I don't have a problem if people deactivate their abs, I just have zero evidence it will improve any lap times on a road course.

OK. You're barking up the wrong tree. Stop trying to win an argument that isn't even happening. I never claimed that driving with ABS is slower than without it.

GT5's physics engine operates at well beyond 15 Hz, that I can guarantee. Hence, its ABS is far superior to anything on any car ever made. Real ABS does upset the car slightly, but obviously far less than having no ABS at full braking power. I remember the first time I experienced maximum deceleration in an emergency in a car with ABS (as a passenger, incidentally); the way the ABS threw the car around was shocking, and I remember that more than I do the feeling of having my face pulled off by the deceleration force itself. Granted, the ABS slowed us down much quicker on the terrible, pitted, crumbling off-camber road surface than if the car had none, but that's not the point.

Throwing a car into a corner and riding the brakes hard does not feel like it does in GT5. That is the point of this thread. The car will jitter about as each wheel does its own thing, repeatedly locking and unlocking (presuming the brakes can overcome the grip on each wheel, given the dynamic weight distribution is going to be pretty extreme) at less than 15 Hz, and would be "slower" than doing the same thing in GT5. Obviously, this is probably a dubious racing tactic, but that's also not the point.

Yes, in some circumstances, you do want to breach the threshold - note that I don't specifically mean "locking", but nor do I exclude it (handbrake?). Ask any autocrosser how they negotiate tight, low-speed corners. Or any rally driver for that matter (even on tarmac stages, before you jump at that).
Any car is steerable (with a preferable brake bias, not normally adjustable with ABS) with the brake pedal, allowing the car to rotate faster than it could relying on grip alone - cars with DSC will categorically not allow this behaviour; GT5's ABS is like this. ABS-based DSC can be tweaked to do the same thing, but many road cars really won't have this feature - I believe the Evo X's DSC system is tied into the drivetrain's yaw control system (whatever it's called) and it contributes to yaw (e.g. into a corner) under braking, depending on steering angle, road speed etc. much like setting ABS to greater than 1 in GT5 - although not comparable, given the unreal response and lack of oscillation in GT5's ABS.

In summary:
  1. Real ABS systems allow the wheels to lock, if only temporarily during oscillation at less than 15 Hz. GT5's does not allow locking at all, and operates at well above 60 Hz.
  2. Most real-world ABS systems (and GT5's) are not easily manually adjustable for bias etc. Ordinary brakes are easily adjusted for bias.
  3. GT5's ABS acts as a DSC system; not all ABS systems do this.
  4. GT5's ABS can be made to effect a kind of "active yaw control"; very few real ABS systems do this.
Diving into a corner in GT5 with ABS on is never quite like doing the same in real life because of point 1. The other points vary from car to car.
 
The Impreza P1 in the game feels and brakes just like my Impreza P1 in real life. ABS allows more control while braking and stops the car quicker.
 
OK. You're barking up the wrong tree. Stop trying to win an argument that isn't even happening. I never claimed that driving with ABS is slower than without it.

GT5's physics engine operates at well beyond 15 Hz, that I can guarantee. Hence, its ABS is far superior to anything on any car ever made. Real ABS does upset the car slightly, but obviously far less than having no ABS at full braking power. I remember the first time I experienced maximum deceleration in an emergency in a car with ABS (as a passenger, incidentally); the way the ABS threw the car around was shocking, and I remember that more than I do the feeling of having my face pulled off by the deceleration force itself. Granted, the ABS slowed us down much quicker on the terrible, pitted, crumbling off-camber road surface than if the car had none, but that's not the point.

Throwing a car into a corner and riding the brakes hard does not feel like it does in GT5. That is the point of this thread. The car will jitter about as each wheel does its own thing, repeatedly locking and unlocking (presuming the brakes can overcome the grip on each wheel, given the dynamic weight distribution is going to be pretty extreme) at less than 15 Hz, and would be "slower" than doing the same thing in GT5. Obviously, this is probably a dubious racing tactic, but that's also not the point.

Yes, in some circumstances, you do want to breach the threshold - note that I don't specifically mean "locking", but nor do I exclude it (handbrake?). Ask any autocrosser how they negotiate tight, low-speed corners. Or any rally driver for that matter (even on tarmac stages, before you jump at that).
Any car is steerable (with a preferable brake bias, not normally adjustable with ABS) with the brake pedal, allowing the car to rotate faster than it could relying on grip alone - cars with DSC will categorically not allow this behaviour; GT5's ABS is like this. ABS-based DSC can be tweaked to do the same thing, but many road cars really won't have this feature - I believe the Evo X's DSC system is tied into the drivetrain's yaw control system (whatever it's called) and it contributes to yaw (e.g. into a corner) under braking, depending on steering angle, road speed etc. much like setting ABS to greater than 1 in GT5 - although not comparable, given the unreal response and lack of oscillation in GT5's ABS.

In summary:
  1. Real ABS systems allow the wheels to lock, if only temporarily during oscillation at less than 15 Hz. GT5's does not allow locking at all, and operates at well above 60 Hz.
  2. Most real-world ABS systems (and GT5's) are not easily manually adjustable for bias etc. Ordinary brakes are easily adjusted for bias.
  3. GT5's ABS acts as a DSC system; not all ABS systems do this.
  4. GT5's ABS can be made to effect a kind of "active yaw control"; very few real ABS systems do this.
Diving into a corner in GT5 with ABS on is never quite like doing the same in real life because of point 1. The other points vary from car to car.
But GT5's ABS does allow locking.
How you can't hear the tires screeching when fully braking with ABS is beyond me.
I can make a car with ABS on plow straight ahead under braking, and I can make one spin out under braking.

The answer to the OP is yes.
It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.
 
But GT5's ABS does allow locking.
How you can't hear the tires screeching when fully braking with ABS is beyond me.
I can make a car with ABS on plow straight ahead under braking, and I can make one spin out under braking.

The answer to the OP is yes.
It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

No, it doesn't. Not to the extent that real ABS does. This is because locking is undesirable, but cannot be totally eliminated in real cars due to the relatively slow response of the mechanical parts. GT5 has no such limitations, so it can "catch" locking quicker and can react instantaneously. "Locking" is exceeding the threshold, squealing occurs up to as well as beyond the threshold. GT5's ABS never breaches the threshold, real ABS does.

How exactly, in GT5, are you making this ABS car plough ahead or spin out under braking alone? If you're referring to ABS values greater than 1, then I've already covered that.

The fact is, if you drive in real life in the way you can get away with in GT5 with ABS, you'll consistently miss apexes because you will have less grip on average due to the ABS exceeding the grip threshold. It might well feel the same for gentle trail braking, but full-on braking e.g. into a hairpin is a bit different.

I should probably clarify that I'm not complaining. Then again, I rarely use the ABS in GT5 because I don't like the DSC effect.
 
I've had an 04 Volvo v70r in the past and I can say it did a fantastic job with a hell of a lot of abs related ESP and adaptive suspension of controlling 1700kg of car in the wet...

Got a s14 atm with no abs and I it's quite tricky in the wet when you need to stop in a hurry (sweet for dorri dorri tho), I like having to constantly concentrate on my grip now so that's why I have it but I do miss the confidence of spanking the Volvo around in the wet sometimes, even tho it got a bit boring in the end (v70r 4wd was fwd 90% of the time, and ****.)
 
Threshold braking is braking on the threshold of locking the wheels, and is quite a difficult skill to master. I've done it, but with my road experience it's rarely needed, so I'm certainly not an expert, I've never unintentionally crossed the line though, so +1 for me. :lol:
The main trick is not locking the wheels, once this happens, your grip level plummets, you start skidding, can't steer at all. To add difficulty, once they lock, you have to release to even less pressure than (I) ever imagined.
Basically, to master threshold braking, you either need to break laws a lot, or have access to a race track. Really no different from mastering a good launch, throttle control exiting corners, or steering, you have to keep the tires from sliding to much, while keeping them sliding enough to go fast.

In the FF cars I've owned, (all I've had yet:grumpy:) ) In the times I did it the back-end shoots out like a rocket, presumably due to the overly light weight of the rear.
In GT5 and real life, proper brake modulation is key to fast corner entry, with or without ABS.

The single most incorrect and foolish statement I've heard in some time. ABS systems stop cars in any weather faster than humans can without ABS, the pulsation time and corrections to each wheel are things a driver cannot do as fast, and the portion of ABS that delivers more power to different wheels is something a driver cannot do at all.

ABS allows the steering wheels to continue to steer whilst under full breaking load, in a situation where they would otherwise be locked up, thus creating a skid. This is done by the brakes releasing the wheels just before they are about to lock up (which by the way is when you have maximum breaking effect) and then re-applying the breaks to that same pressure and repeating until the break pedal is released.
Humans cannot do this fast enough, sure we can cadence break which is "ABS" but in real slow time, if you drive for real, you most probably will use cadence breaking atsome point, usually when youve entered a corner, (on the approach) realise you are to fast slam on the breaks skid crap yourself (and if you have the right mindset and are concentrating) release the breaks trust your tyres and turn into the corner, the power out feeling alive and smug in the knowledge that leeser motorists would by now be nose in to the armco that you just avoided by doing something alien when you want to avoid a crash and that is release the breaks.
 
This I do know, and I've thought about it. No need to be harsh :crazy:.

It wasnt meant to be harsh. It was just a sentence :dunce:

That's what I wasn't sure about and what I was asking for, thanks 👍. So, it isn't realistic the level of difficulty you get driving GT5 with ABS off given that you don't have enough feedback. Am I right?

Exactly. 👍 If you train and have a pro pedal system, you have a lot control in the game and can be a great no assist-driver, especially in combination with your wheel-FFB. But a car pedal has more information to offer than a car pedal.
 
niky
ABS isn't going to kill you in slippery conditions unless you're going way too fast to stop, in the first place.

The one problem with ABS in emergency situations is that people will have more control under braking than they're used to... in other words, they MAY tend to over-exaggerate steering motions, which means they will veer out of control under ABS... whereas they would simply slide with no ABS... but that only goes for people who are used to locking brakes. People who are used to ABS will have no such problems.

On the race track, ABS allows you to carry more speed into a corner and to turn under braking with less understeer. Instability can arise if the car's brake bias is incorrect and if the rear tires come too far unloaded, but when properly set, ABS can lead to faster laps simply because they make trail-braking that much easier. We're taught on the race track to take full advantage of ABS, but only after being taught the "proper" way to brake for a corner, as not all cars have it, and most race cars don't.

However, they're banned from competition only partly because they lead to faster laps and less tire wear. The big reason sporting bodies don't like ABS is because clever engineers can use ABS to actively tune out oversteer or understeer, much as electronic stability systems do on road cars... with computer-controlled ABS and traction control, a car can be programmed so all a driver has to do is keep his foot pinned to the throttle and steer. I remember this was demonstrated in Indy or FedEX CART before, and rumors were that one F1 team also did it, but I can't recall which one.

They accused Ayrton Senna and Ferarri of using it in the early 90's. Might of been just something similar. Engine management TCS type thing.

I agree with you guys IRL. The GT5 ABS is too much IMO, allows braking that no IRL ABS system on a Production car is capable of. Coupled with the fact its not allowed in most forms of racing, I feel the goal is to get good enough to turn it off.

I've been back and forrh while on a DS3. It was hard but doable. Since picking up a DFGT, I keeps it at 0 unless I'm tired or the car is just insaine without it, I then try to tune the car to drive well without it if possible.

Crushing fast laps ABS free feels so much more rewarding IMO.

What would be cool is if they added controled resistance to the brake pedal to simulate the feedback you get IRL undder braking conditions through the pedal.

Introducing "Fade"...
 
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I don't mean to drag a thread from nowhere guys, it's not my style but I didn't want to make yet another new topic on something we basically already have one for. Anyway:

What's the most realistic brake bias for cars? I've got 2:1 and you can go about 85% maybe 90% full on the brakes but anymore and you'll shake and go straight.

On 3:2 I'd say 70% to 75% on the brakes and then you've cooked it. What sounds more like it? I'm driving an Enzo and make no mistake braking is much easier at 2:1 but you can still over do it.

I know weight comes into it but...I'd have to trial and error there.
 
ABS is great in that it allows people to steer and brake at the same time.

ABS will stop a car faster than non-ABS car driven by a regular Joe(sephine) in *MOST* situations. The exceptions are dirt and snow - where the buildup of dirt and snow in front of the tires will actually stop the car faster than not locking up with ABS. The caveat here is that locking up will rendering steering inputs futile.
 
With the ABS off you also have to take into consideration the handling on the car. Try steering very slightly while braking. The car shouldn't spin or show exaggerated oversteer.

With a stock premium Nissan Fairlady 300ZX a brake bias of 9:3 (front tires will lock at about 60-65% of the total range) seems the most natural to me.
 
newbielives
The question is not whether you should drive with ABS or without it's whether it is realistic in the game where you can slam on the brakes and brake through mid corner when with ABS. Can you also do this in real life with a car that has ABS which I personally do not know having never used ABS in a racing situation in real life since I don't race in real life.

In the Australian Mini championship the Mini's run with abs and I have heard in interviews the race drivers complaining about the abs cutting in on hard braking. But I believe this was before turning into the corner
 
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