Can we actually call GT5 a simulator?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Raven_WET01
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Yes I would call it a sim, but I still think PD are holding back on some areas to please the casual player.
 
mattythedog
If you want a proper sim racer buy iRacing. GT5 has to cater for the masses which include people that just want a fun game. It cannot be a full sim because a lot of people would find it too difficult and they wouldn't play the game.
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This argument has being going on here in some iteration for so long it makes my head hurt :ouch:

This statement I've quoted sums it up for the xmillionth time.

GT5's primary concern isn't to sim motorsport, it's to provide a fun semi-realistic racing game for playstation users who don't have an extra cost-of-playstation stashed away for a wheel and pedals.

A racing "simulator" is like a flight "simulator." Its purpose is to "simulate" as closely as possible, and I'm not even sure they can even be classified as "games." It'd be like calling racing or flying a plane "games." You find enjoyment in it not because the company made it enjoyable with gaming aspects but because you like the thing it's simulating to begin with.
 
Technically it is a sim, not a good one, but it meets the dictionary definition.

To me, it's a casual game. If someone is looking for a good racing sim, they are not going to be playing GT5. I like racing against my friends online in GT5 because they do not want a sim, they just want to jump in a car and go racing. When I want to race seriously, I use rfactor or even F1 2011 on the PC. There are no "good" sims on consoles, this is due to hardware limitations and the target audience of console users.
 
Exorcet
Prove it.

How is it getting more realistic going to make it too difficult? Why would SRF cease to exist?
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If it was getting more realistic, hell yes SRF would cease to exist. Sims have braking and steering assistance on PC sims but I haven't seen anything like SRF which is just straight up cheating. No car on earth that I've ever heard of has this electronic safety system. I would bet a good chunk of money 90 percent of GT5 players would have extreme difficulty never having played a real sim switching over to iRacing or something similar. Like me they'd probably be off every corner at first because GT5 "trains" you to brake way too late everywhere and they'd be berated over and over for all the avoidable contact.

Now, iRacing is doable by anyone--it TEACHES you to really race, with the adrenaline of real consequences from screw ups. That's whats brilliant about it. But I doubt the age range of most GT5 users would stick around long enough to really reap any benefits from a full-on sim system. It's way too frustrating for the casual gamer and without a wheel full simulation is a pointless irony.
 
Guess that's why they call it the real DRIVING simulator. The driving physics is obviously the thing they focus most on, while things like suspension settings etc is not as detailed. So is it a driving simulator? Yes. Is it a tuning simulator? Not that much.
 
Bigbazz
Yes we can call it a sim, not the most accurate sim, but none of the simulators are actually accurate (atleast not ones we can buy) to real life.

Problems you have.

1000 cars - Nigh on impossible to get those tuning options accurate with that many cars.
Racing Soft tyres - Why are you using racing soft tyres? Test it with comfort mediums. It is not news that the racing soft tyres have too much grip, and you would never in the real world even be able to aquire comparable tyres for that car.
Track - It isnt laser scanned, you haven't got real life weather or wind conditions.
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This!
 
Tower Turn 13
If it was getting more realistic, hell yes SRF would cease to exist.
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Wrong. Realism = what the game allows not forces. You can't seriously think that if you program a SRF option in the best multi million dollar F1 sim, that it will become less realistic.

Sims have braking and steering assistance on PC sims but I haven't seen anything like SRF which is just straight up cheating.
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I know that exaggeration can be used to drive a point home. I do it all the time. But SRF is as similar to cheating as the moon is similar to cheese. Just pointing that out in case cheating is taken literally by anyone.
 
Tower Turn 13
This argument has being going on here in some iteration for so long it makes my head hurt :ouch:

This statement I've quoted sums it up for the xmillionth time.

GT5's primary concern isn't to sim motorsport, it's to provide a fun semi-realistic racing game for playstation users who don't have an extra cost-of-playstation stashed away for a wheel and pedals.

A racing "simulator" is like a flight "simulator." Its purpose is to "simulate" as closely as possible, and I'm not even sure they can even be classified as "games." It'd be like calling racing or flying a plane "games." You find enjoyment in it not because the company made it enjoyable with gaming aspects but because you like the thing it's simulating to begin with.
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Even iRacing is for most part a game. If you look at real simulator- one you would find at Red Bull or McLaren- it's usually based on proprietary data using engine provided by rFactor Pro. Data acquisition and how it's used including that of the track is what separate casual sim like rFactor/iRacing to the those used by Professional racing team/driver.

And on top of that you have a properly calibrated steering wheel/pedal (calibrated in term of force/weight/feel) and motion platform to simulate g-force and movement. Like everything else it's the combination of a good software (rFactor Pro and data acquisition) and hardware (steering wheel/pedal/motion simulator) that turns it into a proper tool.

And most of us can only dream of ever owning one of those.

But as with any application it's important to know and understand their limit. But that doesn't mean you can't reap the fullest benefit from a game like GT5 or iRacing.
 
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Are you looking fot the simulation in GT5?take a premium,stock-road car(M3,Gran Turismo...) with a C2 tires(F40 with a sport tires),all assist'-OFF and ABS-Off,Hud-Off,use the kockpit view then drive in Green Hell with your Logitech G27(No wheel No simulation)!!!
 
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mikeonthebike
As somebody else stated it would be best to take a STOCK car with STOCK TIRES no tuning at all and compare your time on top gear test track to that very same care they tested and compare.
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This, right here, is how I can tell some of you aren't reading. It's no different than being able to tell when someone is listening and when they're just waiting to interject their opinion. I wanted this to be a serious discussion on how much a simulator should cover before it gets the title, NOT fanboys (who percieve questioning as negative criticism) skimming the material and going "nuh-uh."

Before you post: Exorcet's comments are now required reading. I haven't been on to respond to a lot of you, but he's done a great job clearing up any misconceptions.
 
Everyone has to remember that this is a console game, and even though it's shown off as a "real driving simulator", it's also built for the common man that uses a controller. PD can only go so far before they put the game out of reach to the average gamer, so I think GT5 sits at a good medium.

As far as tuning goes, yes I also wish it was more indepth as far as parts go, but I don't know anything about tuning suspension so I honestly have no opinion about that. I can say that when installing coilovers on a real car, they will sometimes lower a car even at max adjusted height. Depends on specific brands and what they designed their kits to achieve handling wise.

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ForzaFanboy360
GT5 is far to be a sim, actually forza 4 motorsport have the best physics entires created so if do you want a real sim try Forza 4
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:lol::lol::lol:

Nice first post. Troll.
 
wajdi1977
Do you want the simulation in GT5?take a premium,stock-road car with a C2 tires,all assist'-OFF and ABS-Off,Hud-Off,use the kockpit view then drive in Green Hell with your Logitech G27(No wheel No simulation)!!!
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👍 That's all I gotta say about that.
 
R1600Turbo
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that.
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It's your right, but to address something before dropping this off topic subject: all I said was that FM4 is more realistic than GT5. Not that GT5 is far from a sim, I was disagreeing with that part.
 
Exorcet
In GT, when you throw race tires on a car, it basically becomes a race car. There is no need to optimize suspension to get max grip.
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Are you serious, trolling, or not consistent enough to notice the difference between a good and a bad suspension setup on RS tyres? It's measured in seconds per lap on any car that is fast enough to reach the tyres' limits.
Exorcet
The point was, RS tires are crazy in GT5 because they (like all tires) supply magic grip just by being put on the car.
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Err, that's what slick tyres tend to do. Putting slicks on a normal street car and then driving it hard would produce first seriously increased cornering speeds and then either a rollover or snapped suspension parts due to sheer grip, which one comes first depends on the car.

If using grippier tyres resulting in better cornering performance with no other modifications is unrealistic I can only draw the conclusion that in that case GT5 in indeed unrealistic but so are LFS, rFactor, iRacing, and real life... because that's how it works. No, those tyres alone won't give everything they have in them unless the extra grip is taken into account on the car setup but that's how it goes in all those games (and in real life) so the point is ridiculous unless there is a serious miswording in the explanation.
 
I've been reading other comments from other sites from users saying FM4's physics surpassed GT5's physics is this true? If it is then GT needs to step it up.
 
Greycap
Are you serious
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Yes. Have you ever been able to lower your lateral grip through suspension settings? I've never seen it happen. Cars always have the same lateral grip, and it depends only on tires.

Putting slicks on a normal street car and then driving it hard would produce first seriously increased cornering speeds
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And those speeds would be sensitive to the suspension set up. Not completely independent of them. It seems that all suspension does in GT5 is affect stability.
 
eran0004
Guess that's why they call it the real DRIVING simulator. The driving physics is obviously the thing they focus most on, while things like suspension settings etc is not as detailed. So is it a driving simulator? Yes. Is it a tuning simulator? Not that much.
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See that's the thing the box says driving sim but also talks about the great racing the game produces. So it promotes both really. The thing is, if they wanted a solely driving sim then why not just do a midnight club with out the theatrics. We all know that GT is a racing sim/game and the argument to say it isn't to cut GT slack is one that is laughable.
 
shurnster
I've been reading other comments from other sites from users saying FM4's physics surpassed GT5's physics is this true? If it is then GT needs to step it up.
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The short answer is: "debatable". The long answer is this thread here. GT5 feels a bit simpler now going back to it, and the tire model in FM4 is astounding, but it really is a "horses for courses" situation. Your best bet is to find a way to try it yourself (for a significant amount of time) to figure out which you prefer 👍

As for the topic at hand; sadly, it's always been the case with GT, as the further you modify a car, the less realistic it seems to be, as its capabilities far surpass what's usually possible in real life. It's not always the case, of course, but GT seems to work as a better simulator when you're running stock or near-stock cars. The single biggest thorn in its side, in my view, is the amount of grip the higher-level tires provide, but if you keep a road car on stock tires, or only go one grade up, while pairing it with only some light mods in the other categories, it really can be quite impressive while still feeling "analog" enough :)
 
SlipZtrEm
...but if you keep a road car on stock tires, or only go one grade up, while pairing it with only some light mods in the other categories, it really can be quite impressive while still feeling "analog" enough :)
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This.

My favorite car in the game right now is a Lexus IS-F on Sport Hard or Sport Medium tires with a Sport Filter, Sport CAT and an ECU tune. Everything else completely stock. Awesome car to drive.
 
based on the definition ... it would be more of a sim if you are using the proper interface, a wheel.
 
Exorcet
Everyone has missed the point. The point was, RS tires are crazy in GT5 because they (like all tires) supply magic grip just by being put on the car.
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I'm not really sure. What time should these cars run with the best tires money can buy simply thrown on them?
I for one don't have the slightest clue. Of course the real-world vs gaming world lap time difference comes in too, whether it's people driving harder in the game, or the games own errors in making the cars to fast, I have no current data to base any assumptions off of.

The only thing I know of that's been "proven" is that tires have to much grip, and even that is debatable IMO.
 
The issue isn't so much the lap times, but the fact that every car benefits as much as the next. Tires work best under a specific load/temperature/slip angle. If a tire is used in such a way that all of these are way off, it won't work very well. You shouldn't be able to use LMP tires on a stripped down featherweight hatchback that has no downforce. It won't be able to heat tire tires or compress them enough to get a decent contact patch.

If GT5's tuning was more realistic, we would need to have dozens of tire options for each class of car and mismatching tires and cars would produce negative results. Though to be honest, I don't expect that level of complexity to be modeled because of how complex tires are. However, throwing RS tires on a Mini should create a very different result from placing those same tires on a Corvette.
 

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