Car Behavior and Tire Temps after Patch 2.0PS4 

One thing I liked about AC is the tire heat indicator, when your tires are over heating they glow red, whereas in PC2 they stay blue for cold and green for heated, but I never see red for hot.

You take gt3s around Cataluna on softs and they should be raging after 1 lap.
 
Bealdor
I've seen red tire indicators on various occasions.
Maybe they're off for some compounds though.
AFAIK the devs are working on this also for a leter patch.
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I have seen them on all tires in the high tiers with career mode. It could be my driving style but during the race my tires always overheat and my pressures are completely different during th race compared to qualifying with similar conditions. I’m wondering if this is just an issue with Xbox one career or if everyone is having this issue?
 
Dev Nibor
Whether they are ment for qualifying only I will leave in the middle but they can certainly be used for longer sessions.
I did a 45 minutes league race last weekend on softs and they weren't even worn out by the end.
Other racers on hard slicks told me after the race they could not keep up with the pace.

Temperatures were around 20 degrees celcius.

I recorded the race so you can see for yourself
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Our league runs Accelerated (2x) Tire Wear, so I've not done any comprehensive testing on the Softs with Tire Wear at Default. I will have to test that.
 
crowhop
Our league runs Accelerated (2x) Tire Wear, so I've not done any comprehensive testing on the Softs with Tire Wear at Default. I will have to test that.
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ok, ours is not running on double tire wear so that might explain the different results.
 
Dev Nibor
ok, ours is not running on double tire wear so that might explain the different results.
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Even still, Softs should last more than a single flying lap if you're experiencing wear relative to the Hards.

The issue with the Softs was immediately apparent for us in the GT3 class. We were practicing for the Daytona race and they just didn't last. The tires were wearing more than the Hards, for sure, but they weren't getting worn out. And they weren't even getting overheated or over-pressured. They just got slippery and useless.
 
Dev Nibor
Whether they are ment for qualifying only I will leave in the middle but they can certainly be used for longer sessions.
I did a 45 minutes league race last weekend on softs and they weren't even worn out by the end.
Other racers on hard slicks told me after the race they could not keep up with the pace.

Temperatures were around 20 degrees celcius.

I recorded the race so you can see for yourself
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You’d tire indicators weren’t green at the start of the race. How did you get them to be so cold at the start and why did your pressures drop during the race?
 
F1Racer68
I run the Ford GT GTE in the league that @crowhop is part of. My starting (cold) pressures for our Daytona race were as follows:

Daytime - 1.71bar front, 1.66bar rear. Reaches 32 PSI hot and running at 165F

Nighttime - 1.79bar front, 1.73bar rear. Reaches 32 PSI hot and running at 165F.

Brake duct settings are also critical in order to retain enough heat to help heat the tires. I don't recall my exact lap times, but they were in the 1:42.8 - 1:43.3 range.

Suspension setup was default (loose) with downforce, radiator opening, brake ducts and brake pressure being the only adjustments.


In Regards to the posts about tire wear, i have not found the soft tires to wear anymore than the hards? (GTE/GT3)... I have done a multitude of online and offline 1 hour test sessions and both tires hold up till the end of the race fine. Slight loss of grip for both tires, but nothing major. I have heard a speculation that the tires aren't traditional soft and hards, but instead refer to the temperature range (similar to WEC Michelins) in that the hard is used in Warmer temp ranges, and the softs are used in Colder temp ranges. I have been using this as the tire wear doesn't seem to be very different, yet the softs are much easier to warm up in colder temps. However this is only my observation and based on speculation.


Race date on track was Oct 8th, 2017 in clear conditions.
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So here lies my issue, 165 F is 74 C which is not optimal tire temp... 80-100 C is optimal for GTE tires (at least current gen Michelins, which i viewed at this years Mobil 1 GP) so therefore the tire is still "cold"... I found the only way to get the tires into this range was to lower the cold pressure the minimum, which rises to about 28 psi when heated, creating a stable temp of around 85 C. However, this is the minimum during the day, as soon as night falls (11 C at night, compared to 40 C during the day) my tires cant retain the heat and fall to around 65 C, but i am not able to lower the pressures past 1.30 Bar, and therefore once nighttime rolls in i can no longer retain the optimal tire temps.

In regards to the discussion on tire wear, i have been noticing the same wear as @crowhop in that the softs and hards do not seem to wear much different. I have done multiple 1+ hour races offline and online and can easily do the whole race on a pair of softs (GTE/GT3). I have heard speculation that the tires are comparable to WEC michelins in that they are used for different temperature ranges not distances. Therefore, the softs would be used for colder temp ranges, and the hards for warmer temp ranges. This is how i have been using the compounds as like is said: the wear isn't bad on either. This is based on personal observation and speculation but has seemed to work on most locations.
 
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ozwheels
You’d tire indicators weren’t green at the start of the race. How did you get them to be so cold at the start and why did your pressures drop during the race?
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hmm my tires seem greenish to me at race start (2:09), they get yellowgreen after 1 lap.
I have no idea about the pressure drop though
 
Jack Dulmage
So here lies my issue, 165 F is 74 C which is not optimal tire temp... 80-100 C is optimal for GTE tires (at least current gen Michelins, which i viewed at this years Mobil 1 GP) so therefore the tire is still "cold"... I found the only way to get the tires into this range was to lower the cold pressure the minimum, which rises to about 28 psi when heated, creating a stable temp of around 85 C. However, this is the minimum during the day, as soon as night falls (11 C at night, compared to 40 C during the day) my tires cant retain the heat and fall to around 65 C, but i am not able to lower the pressures past 1.30 Bar, and therefore once nighttime rolls in i can no longer retain the optimal tire temps.

In regards to the discussion on tire wear, i have been noticing the same wear as @crowhop in that the softs and hards do not seem to wear much different. I have done multiple 1+ hour races offline and online and can easily do the whole race on a pair of softs (GTE/GT3). I have heard speculation that the tires are comparable to WEC michelins in that they are used for different temperature ranges not distances. Therefore, the softs would be used for colder temp ranges, and the hards for warmer temp ranges. This is how i have been using the compounds as like is said: the wear isn't bad on either. This is based on personal observation and speculation but has seemed to work on most locations.
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Again, the temp could have been brought a bit higher by closing off the brake ducts a bit more, and by reducing to run 30 or 31 PSI hot rather than 32. It was our first race, and only 2 weeks after the game launched, so hadn't yet dialed in all the intricacies.

Also, keep in mind, Daytona is not particularly hard on the tires. They have a lot of opportunity to cool down on the oval portion. 165F was average sustained for the lap, but on the infield they are higher.

I was able to maintain the same temps both daytime and night time and the pressures worked for both hard and soft compounds, although I ended up only running the softs during the race.
 
Jack Dulmage
So here lies my issue, 165 F is 74 C which is not optimal tire temp... 80-100 C is optimal for GTE tires (at least current gen Michelins, which i viewed at this years Mobil 1 GP) so therefore the tire is still "cold"... I found the only way to get the tires into this range was to lower the cold pressure the minimum, which rises to about 28 psi when heated, creating a stable temp of around 85 C. However, this is the minimum during the day, as soon as night falls (11 C at night, compared to 40 C during the day) my tires cant retain the heat and fall to around 65 C, but i am not able to lower the pressures past 1.30 Bar, and therefore once nighttime rolls in i can no longer retain the optimal tire temps.

In regards to the discussion on tire wear, i have been noticing the same wear as @crowhop in that the softs and hards do not seem to wear much different. I have done multiple 1+ hour races offline and online and can easily do the whole race on a pair of softs (GTE/GT3). I have heard speculation that the tires are comparable to WEC michelins in that they are used for different temperature ranges not distances. Therefore, the softs would be used for colder temp ranges, and the hards for warmer temp ranges. This is how i have been using the compounds as like is said: the wear isn't bad on either. This is based on personal observation and speculation but has seemed to work on most locations.
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A better test will be Laguna Seca, which is our next race. I'm sure F1 will get it dialed in and post detailed information to help his competition soon enough. :lol::lol:
 
Regarding the minimum pressure you can set these GT3 tires at I’m almost positive the range is wrong. If you look at your pit strategy you can set the pressures much lower than 1.30 bar unlike the setup menu. Adding to this speculation SMS said the optimal is close to 1.80. That pressure is unobtainable with a default of 1.30 in certain circumstances unless you literally run your brake ducts wide open which is silly to do. @Bealdor Are you aware of the minimum and maximum range in the setup menu being changed?

@crowhop Hards are the way to go in the race for sure. I would of had over a second a lap advantage in my league race today if I could have actually raced. It’s all down to the tires being preheated for races. Hopefully it takes others a while to catch on. :sly:
 
Has anyone been able to deduce what flashing tire indicators mean? Not just what someone in a lobby told you, but actual factual statements from SMS employees that they do in fact mean a flat spotted tire.

And if they do indicate a flat spot, why does the race sometimes start you with 4 flat spotted tires?

Why do you get flashing tires by doing burnouts on the grass?

Why do you get flashing tires without having locked up?

I'm just wondering if anyone has got to bottom of this.
 
crowhop
A better test will be Laguna Seca, which is our next race. I'm sure F1 will get it dialed in and post detailed information to help his competition soon enough. :lol::lol:
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this is why i don't pipe in and i dont' even do time trial anymore after i did the one at daytona :D
 
I've got a question about adjusting tire pressures. I've just started messing around with it and I've seen what hot pressures and temps should be.

When you go into the setup and start adjusting the cold bar pressure, there is a number in the lower left of each tire graph that changes as you adjust, is that what the hot bar pressure is going to be?

Also I've seen the recommendation for touring cars but what about FWD touring cars? Do the same pressures apply for them? Because I made the Mercedes A45 touring car have the same pressure as a RWD car but it's front tires went up to 36psi and made it's handling feel a little funny.
 
Jezza819
I've got a question about adjusting tire pressures. I've just started messing around with it and I've seen what hot pressures and temps should be.

When you go into the setup and start adjusting the cold bar pressure, there is a number in the lower left of each tire graph that changes as you adjust, is that what the hot bar pressure is going to be?

Also I've seen the recommendation for touring cars but what about FWD touring cars? Do the same pressures apply for them? Because I made the Mercedes A45 touring car have the same pressure as a RWD car but it's front tires went up to 36psi and made it's handling feel a little funny.
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The little tire diagrams in the setup menu don’t work from what I’ve seen. I’ve posted about it a few times and it went no where. If it’s not for hot pressures and a temperature spread then I don’t know why it’s there to begin with.
 
ozwheels
The little tire diagrams in the setup menu don’t work from what I’ve seen. I’ve posted about it a few times and it went no where. If it’s not for hot pressures and a temperature spread then I don’t know why it’s there to begin with.
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See that confirms what I was thinking because I would make adjustments to the rear and then the front number would skyrocket and I was thinking that couldn't be right. It looks like you've got to just estimate it, go to the track and see what comes up then come back and make further adjustments.
 
F1Racer68
Again, the temp could have been brought a bit higher by closing off the brake ducts a bit more, and by reducing to run 30 or 31 PSI hot rather than 32. It was our first race, and only 2 weeks after the game launched, so hadn't yet dialed in all the intricacies.

Also, keep in mind, Daytona is not particularly hard on the tires. They have a lot of opportunity to cool down on the oval portion. 165F was average sustained for the lap, but on the infield they are higher.

I was able to maintain the same temps both daytime and night time and the pressures worked for both hard and soft compounds, although I ended up only running the softs during the race.
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The thread is for car behavior after the 2.0 update... not 2 weeks after release?? Car behavior wasn't really an issue before the patch... for myself anyways. I have the brake ducts at 20% front and 15% at the rear, so i still don't see how my temps aren't getting warm enough at night. There should be no reason that my tires will not gain heat. They do in LMP2 cars no problem, i only struggle for heat in GT3 and GTE cars.

Has anyone heard of any potential fixes to the issue (be it temp, pressures, or oversteer issues?) Or any patch rumors coming from SMS?
 
Jack Dulmage
The thread is for car behavior after the 2.0 update... not 2 weeks after release?? Car behavior wasn't really an issue before the patch... for myself anyways. I have the brake ducts at 20% front and 15% at the rear, so i still don't see how my temps aren't getting warm enough at night. There should be no reason that my tires will not gain heat. They do in LMP2 cars no problem, i only struggle for heat in GT3 and GTE cars.

Has anyone heard of any potential fixes to the issue (be it temp, pressures, or oversteer issues?) Or any patch rumors coming from SMS?
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You do realize that patch 2.0 came out on October 11th right? Game was released Sept 22nd. That puts patch 2.5 weeks after release.

So excuse me for being off by a few days with my "2 weeks after release" comment. Like you've never made a generic statement in your life.....

Now try reading my post again so that you can realize my point in giving that timing statement was that there was still much learning to do. The car was far from "dialed in". Tires on GTEs will heat very well even at night (at least on PC). It just takes more than 2 laps to do it. And it's not just a matter of "drop pressures".
 
F1Racer68
You do realize that patch 2.0 came out on October 11th right? Game was released Sept 22nd. That puts patch 2.5 weeks after release.

So excuse me for being off by a few days with my "2 weeks after release" comment. Like you've never made a generic statement in your life.....

Now try reading my post again so that you can realize my point in giving that timing statement was that there was still much learning to do. The car was far from "dialed in". Tires on GTEs will heat very well even at night (at least on PC). It just takes more than 2 laps to do it. And it's not just a matter of "drop pressures".
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Easy man, not being hostile just thought you were talking before 2.0, which was not really relevant... But alas, i see i simply misunderstood, not reason to get hostile with each other as it doesn't solve anything.

Like i stated above, i am doing 1-2 hour races with these cars, not just 2 laps, and they have been unable to stay warm into the night, regardless of pressure, however dropping pressures seem to increase temperature as the less pressure i apply, the more heat i receive. The issue is that i cannot produce enough heat at Daytona with the lowest pressures for optimal temp to be held at night. Other tracks are fine, for example Indy Road Course, however i'm sure this is just due to the shorter lap and less "breaks" for the tires. I'm pretty adept at tuning, and i have a good basic understanding of Tire Thermodynamics, my issue is: no matter the 'logic' the tire model does not enable me to keep heat in the tires during low (but realistic) track temperature experienced at night. I have asked for other people to share their tire pressures that they use for a GTE car at Daytona at night, and all i receive is "I keep my pressure at 32 PSI" which doesn't work. I have the car dialed in, i'm setting fairly competitive lap times, i have placed hours into testing for my league, yet no pressure i have tried yet has worked at night...

If im wrong ill be happy, id love to get an answer for my issue and im sure it most likely is personal error and not a 'bug' however i have yet to find any answer.
 
From my experience and after talking to others who've extensively tested and driven other Classes of GT cars, this is my definitive advice on the subject:
  • If you get the Pressures to within the working range, the Temps will follow suit. Tuning for Temps before Pressures is ineffective; you are only chasing your tail.
  • If the tires are within the working Pressure range, but the Temps are too low, then use the Soft Tire Compound, if available.
  • If the Pressures are right, you are using the softest compound tire, but Temps are still too cold, then it is cold outside. Difficulty in building and maintaining the heat in tires is a real-world phenomenon common in racing when it is cold outside. Deal with it as best you can.
 
crowhop
From my experience and after talking to others who've extensively tested and driven other Classes of GT cars, this is my definitive advice on the subject:
  • If you get the Pressures to within the working range, the Temps will follow suit. Tuning for Temps before Pressures is ineffective; you are only chasing your tail.
  • If the tires are within the working Pressure range, but the Temps are too low, then use the Soft Tire Compound, if available.
  • If the Pressures are right, you are using the softest compound tire, but Temps are still too cold, then it is cold outside. Difficulty in building and maintaining the heat in tires is a real-world phenomenon common in racing when it is cold outside. Deal with it as best you can.
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Like i have stated, i understand and have tried all of this. The temperature isn't unrealistic, and that's what i have been doing is just dealing with it the best i can. However, i am simply wondering whether this issue is realistic or not...
 
Jack Dulmage
Like i have stated, i understand and have tried all of this. The temperature isn't unrealistic, and that's what i have been doing is just dealing with it the best i can. However, i am simply wondering whether this issue is realistic or not...
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One of the guys in our league works for a real racing team. He's confirmed it to be the case in real life. He's even posted about it here in this thread.
 
I haven't experienced tires not heating up, but the GT3/GT tires in this game have some odd characteristics for sure.
 
I too know a few drivers.. although not at the top tear of GT racing, they have never found tires impossible to warm... yes heat is hard to come by at night, but there are ways to get the tires to the low end of the optimal temperatures... trading balance usually... but thats why the compounds are designed and why certain compounds are used in certain parts of the world...
 

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