Car Safety

[V1P3R]

Luxury cars, now there's a waste of time... If you want to talk about things that are worthless in the car don't talk about airbags talk about all the crap they put in there that could potentially distract the driver and CAUSE an accident then to be more "safe"... Then there's the added weight it brings to make the car perform worse than it could if it didn't have all that crap.

Oh and while I'm at it... lets bring up the stupid laws like Bluetooth headsets that will confuse the driver and also CAUSE an accident.

Finally, car's are like guns... cars don't kill people, people kill people that are in other cars.

Good question, and having just had a quick look at the Queensland driving regulations (god I love the internet) it would be interetsing to know what type of licence it is.

I don't know about every where else, but in Kalifornya getting a license doesn't mean squat... There are plenty of people that I wonder how they ever get by. With that said I'm no where close to saying I'm good enough to avoid ALL accidents at ALL times. I'm not a bad driver, but you take into account the days where everything is seemingly aiming at you and then add all the other things that can come your way. There's no amount of Safety or prevention that can be taken to avoid the unknown and that's why it's called an Accident.

 

[Duke]

Guess what, real accidents on the road aren't all perfectly simulated perfectly side on crashes. Also, it doesn't matter that they didn't have side airbags, the point is to look at how crushed a car becomes in a real accident, what possible advantage could side airbags have when your entire car has caved in on you? You're still dead, hence again I feel no need for side airbags and various other safety features.

Edit: Maybe I should also point out that safest cars to crash in the world a race cars, no airbags here.

You really just have no concept, do you?

You show a bunch of crashes that clearly involved very high speeds - in that 3000GT, I'll bet triple-digit speeds - and you act as if they totally invalidate airbags.

You're right - if you crash fast enough, NOTHING WILL SAVE YOU. Thank you, Admiral Obvious. I hadn't thought of that. But what about the vast majority of accidents, which occur in urban or semi-urban settings, and involve collision speeds of 50 mph or below? Do you think there's a remote possibility that an airbag might help if the car isn't destroyed to the point of looking like a used snotrag?

Here's an idea - why wear seatbelts? After all, you never intend to crash and you're a flawlessly safe driver. But please, do feel free to introduce me to all the people you know who intended to have an accident. Maybe that's why they call them "accidents", ya think?

And then you add racecars to the discussion? That's so far out in left field that I thought you were joking. Yeah, we might be safer without airbags when every street car comes with a full cage, 5-point harness, mandatory helmets, and HANS devices.

Really, look me in the eye and tell me you were serious with that racecar comment. I can't believe it. I think maybe it's time that you abandoned this line of "reasoning".

 

[Moglet]

How about a strong roof and pillars, which could be just as strong as a roll cage?

I'd love to see you hit a car with rock solid parts like that and then see the effects it has on your body.

Curtain airbags aren't designed to save you from a 70mph side on impact, they're designed to give you a bit more protection at low speed side impacts. And that's got to be a good thing, surely?

That's like saying you wouldn't wear a parachute when skydiving because if it fails you'll die anyway.

 

[V1P3R]

It's funny that the below made me think about my dad's motto when driving. I'm pretty sure he's joking to hide that he hate's the shoulder belt digging into his shoulder though... Baby boomers... Anyway, his motto has been...

I don't need a seat belt because I don't plan on getting into an accident. Mind you he actually did get a ticket for not having a seat belt on, he had a clothes pin preventing the retraction of the shoulder part. lol

That's like saying you wouldn't wear a parachute when skydiving because if it fails you'll die anyway.

Must sig. lol

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Man this is entertaining... lol

BTW, When do you get you're license nd 4 holden spd?

I've had it for 2 years now (including Learner's permit), never had an accident, never scractched a car, topped my Driver Safety education program which involved driving real cars and got complimented by both the License tester and Safe Driver Program instructors for being way and ahead of most people that ever come through.
I know accidents are bound to happen, they say every Aussie has an average of 5 in their lifetime. But I sure as hell know it's not going to be my fault when it does happen, and if I die then so be it. I'm not afraid of death, and I'd rather be dead then be a paraplegic because an airbag saved me from death.
Obviously I'm a car nut too, so airbags are in fact very dangerous for someone driving on a track.
I suppose you think that because I don't care about vehicle safety that makes me a wild driver? Quite the opposite, people get impatient with me when I'm driving because of the extra precaution I take.

Oh and Duke, your post is rediculous, you're just being an arse to me and making a bigger deal out of it then it really is, and making up stuff about me while you're at it. Clearly you don't understand my opinion.

 

[TheCracker]

and if I die then so be it. I'm not afraid of death, and I'd rather be dead then be a paraplegic because an airbag saved me from death.

What about not dying and not being a paraplegic either - isn't surviving an accident and walking away because of an airbag preferable?

Obviously I'm a car nut too, so airbags are in fact very dangerous for someone driving on a track.

Why is an airbag dangerous on a track?

 

[Scaff]

I've had it for 2 years now (including Learner's permit), never had an accident, never scractched a car, topped my Driver Safety education program which involved driving real cars and got complimented by both the License tester and Safe Driver Program instructors for being way and ahead of most people that ever come through.
I know accidents are bound to happen, they say every Aussie has an average of 5 in their lifetime.

So in a whole two years you haven't been in an accident. That is genuinely good to hear, but do not think for a second that makes you a better driver than others.

Think about this, given the QLD licence regulations you must still have a P plate of some type on your car, so maybe part of this is down to other road users giving you more room and taking a bit of extra care around you.

That is after all the reason those plates exist, to forwarn others that you do not have the depth of experience on the road that many may take for granted.

But I sure as hell know it's not going to be my fault when it does happen,

Stupidly arrogant to a point almost beyond words.

News flash for you.

YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING

A situation could arise tomorrow that you have never before encountered on the road, your inability to deal with could result in an accident. That accident would be your fault.

Poor drivers claim the will never cause an accident (and I've come across many people with this attitude), good drivers understand that you never stop learning on the road and the next bend could lead to a situation you have never seen before.

and if I die then so be it. I'm not afraid of death, and I'd rather be dead then be a paraplegic because an airbag saved me from death.

Pity the opposite is far more likely to be true.

Airbags and the pre-tensioners that work with them are designed to reduce the risk of injury that leads to spinal and neck damage.

Please actually do a bit of research into the area of passive safety before talking utter rubbish about it. I've taught this and to say you are wriong would be a massive understatement.

Obviously I'm a car nut too, so airbags are in fact very dangerous for someone driving on a track.

What exact relevance does that have to driving a car on the road?

As its a fact however. I'm sure you would not mind citing your source for this gem of wisdom.

Race cars don't use airbags for many reasons, danger to the driver is not one of them.

I suppose you think that because I don't care about vehicle safety that makes me a wild driver? Quite the opposite, people get impatient with me when I'm driving because of the extra precaution I take.

Which sounds a lot like hesitation through lack of experience. Combine that with an attitude that you will never be the cause of an accident and you are a risk on the road (as we all are to a greater or lesser degree), the worrying thing is that you don't accept that.


Scaff

 

[V1P3R]

I've had it for 2 years now (including Learner's permit), never had an accident, never scractched a car, topped my Driver Safety education program which involved driving real cars and got complimented by both the License tester and Safe Driver Program instructors for being way and ahead of most people that ever come through.

oOoh, I bow down... where's that smilie, oh here...

On a more serious note... I've been driving for...? 10 years? and having gotten into an accident yet and I pray I never do because I know it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when, regardless of if it's my fault or someone aiming for me.

I know accidents are bound to happen, they say every Aussie has an average of 5 in their lifetime. But blah... blah...

Oh, facts? Yeah... those don't mean squat.

Obviously I'm a car nut too, so airbags are in fact very dangerous for someone driving on a track.

I don't really give a [censored] about "on a track" because that's a lot different than on public roads. You can say "on a track" til you're blue in the face, but look at the fatality rate between race drivers and public drivers. I bet you'll find a difference... 💡

Anyway... I'm a car nut too with glasses and frankly yes I'd say they are dangerous too, but I'll take a bruised face over a dismembered face/ no head alternative... that is if my car had an air bag, It's 20 years old.

I suppose you think that because I don't care about vehicle safety that makes me a wild driver? Quite the opposite, people get impatient with me when I'm driving because of the extra precaution I take.

Ok, scenario time... You're coming to an intersection, you have a green light and a car following behind you. You have a car approaching on your left farther from the intersection than you but going faster than you heading toward you and they have a red light. What do you do if that person runs the red light... ? This shouldn't be hard for you since you've had 2 glorious years of experience.

people get impatient with me when I'm driving because of the extra precaution I take.

You know... driving slow/thinking slow is just as unsafe as being in a "safe" car right? What's a "safe" car again? Oh, that's right a motorcycle!

 

[Joey D]

Obviously I'm a car nut too, so airbags are in fact very dangerous for someone driving on a track.

Never heard of that before, but if your are concerned with it you can pull the fuse for the airbags and they won't go off if you are on a track.

 

[Duke]

Oh and Duke, your post is rediculous, you're just being an arse to me and making a bigger deal out of it then it really is, and making up stuff about me while you're at it. Clearly you don't understand my opinion.

You say something like "racecars are safer and they don't have airbags" and you say I'm the one being a ridiculous arse? Be serious.

I'm 43 years old. The car I first rode in didn't even have seatbelts because they were optional at the time. You can bet my father ordered them and retrofitted them. You can bet I've seen cars with rigid body shells that mauled their occupants on impact. I still drive a car with lap belts only (no buzzers!), no ABS (not even power brakes), it was built 5 years before anybody even thought of airbags, and it's a convertible! How more unsafe can you get?

But you're never going to convince me that for a daily driver, a modern car that is designed to absorb impact by deforming in the right places, and that protects its occupants from slamming around inside, is not the best choice.

Maybe I'm not being an arse - maybe you're just wrong. And where did I make up anything about you?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

So in a whole two years you haven't been in an accident. That is genuinely good to hear, but do not think for a second that makes you a better driver than others.

Think about this, given the QLD licence regulations you must still have a P plate of some type on your car, so maybe part of this is down to other road users giving you more room and taking a bit of extra care around you.

That is after all the reason those plates exist, to forwarn others that you do not have the depth of experience on the road that many may take for granted.

I got my license before those laws arrived, and by the law I do not display and plates, and can drive pretty much any car I desire if I'm given the keys.

Stupidly arrogant to a point almost beyond words.

News flash for you.

YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING

A situation could arise tomorrow that you have never before encountered on the road, your inability to deal with could result in an accident. That accident would be your fault.

Poor drivers claim the will never cause an accident (and I've come across many people with this attitude), good drivers understand that you never stop learning on the road and the next bend could lead to a situation you have never seen before.



Pity the opposite is far more likely to be true.

Airbags and the pre-tensioners that work with them are designed to reduce the risk of injury that leads to spinal and neck damage.

Please actually do a bit of research into the area of passive safety before talking utter rubbish about it. I've taught this and to say you are wriong would be a massive understatement.




What exact relevance does that have to driving a car on the road?

As its a fact however. I'm sure you would not mind citing your source for this gem of wisdom.

Race cars don't use airbags for many reasons, danger to the driver is not one of them.



Which sounds a lot like hesitation through lack of experience. Combine that with an attitude that you will never be the cause of an accident and you are a risk on the road (as we all are to a greater or lesser degree), the worrying thing is that you don't accept that.


Scaff

I should report you for the absolute crap you're giving, but it's quite obvious you're just trying to provoke me so you can ban me.
In what way could an unexpected situation be my fault then? Go on, give me an example where it would be my fault. I take everything as it comes, you really ought to get a grip before you try feeding me crap.
Hesitation for lack of experience? How about, caution through wisdom and intelligence. Obviously you drive around like a mad man because you feel you are experienced?

I learnt that airbags are unsafe for racing drivers from a qualified Safe Driving instructor. It's because if you're in a corner and your arms are crossed over the wheel as you hold onto it and the airbag goes off (say the car in front starts to lose it and at the speed you're doinf can't stop and hit him) that airbag will blast your arms straight into your face. I think I'll believe a quailified person before I believe some spiteful stranger I met on the internet claiming to be a qualified person (yet clearly having no idea at all).

 

[V1P3R]

I still drive a car with lap belts only (no buzzers!), no ABS (not even power brakes), it was built 5 years before anybody even thought of airbags, and it's a convertible! How more unsafe can you get?

💡 uhh... a Motorcycle, wait... no, a motorcycle without a helmet!

nd 4 holden spd, you should try it... it's just as safe as a car without airbags.

 

[Joey D]

You are still human and therefore still going to make mistakes. By being as careful as you can you are going to avoid many but there are still to many factors which might cause you to hit someone. You could be having a bad day, stressed out, or tired from work and you concentration could slip for just a moment and you rear end another car. It happens, and it doesn't make you a bad driver.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

This is going no where, instead everything I say is falsely being made to look like something else. Eg. VIP3R saying that because I drive slow I must think slow as well. But please moderators go ahead, keep violating your own AUP just to try and ban me.

Edit: For once Joey D is the only one not trying to be an arse to me.

 

[V1P3R]

I got my license... blah... blah...

It was entertaining, but damn... I gotta go to bed soon. It's 5a.m.

 

[Famine]

I should report you for the absolute crap you're giving

Find an AUP violation in there and I'll happily look over that Report.

I learnt that airbags are unsafe for racing drivers from a qualified Safe Driving instructor. It's because if you're in a corner and your arms are crossed over the wheel as you hold onto it...

... then you're not in proper control of the car.

If you installed a full FIA-spec cage in a road car, then drove it round without a helmet, wearing an ordinary seat-belt, you've upped your risk of dying in an accident by quite an impressive margin. Racing cars aren't safer because they have a cage, or people wear helmets, or they have harnesses. They're safer because they have all of those things. What this has to do with road safety, or you posting images of 100mph+ accidents to argue against airbags is... mystifying.

But please moderators go ahead, keep violating your own AUP just to try and ban me.

Find an AUP violation.

The notion that the moderating staff are all ganging up on you really is rather old now. If it were true, you'd be gone. Only one member of staff has ever taken action because of comments made by you - and you can't tell me that calling someone a moron who loves being dumb and a "c**k end" are friendly and reasonable, rather than plain abusive.


You need to learn that questioning what you say and questioning your character are two wholly different things. This is how people like Duke, Danoff, Touring Mars, Swift and I can debate topics on which we don't necessarily agree and remain friends at the end.

 

[Moglet]

In what way could an unexpected situation be my fault then? Go on, give me an example where it would be my fault. I take everything as it comes, you really ought to get a grip before you try feeding me crap.
Hesitation for lack of experience? How about, caution through wisdom and intelligence. Obviously you drive around like a mad man because you feel you are experienced?

Nobody is saying an unexpected situation would be your fault, but you really cannot predict the behaviour of other road users. A friend of mine recently witnessed an accident where a driver coming the other way took a corner way too quickly, hit the car two cars infront of him, flipped into the air, hit the car behind that one and then landed in a ditch next to my friend.

There is no way you could EVER predict something like that. And don't say you could because you couldn't unless you can break the laws of physics.

I've been driving for almost 5 years now and I've not has so much as a scrape or near miss, I've never gotten cocky about it so I'm still very cautious but you couldn't predict something like that.

 

[Duke]

I got my license before those laws arrived, and by the law I do not display and plates, and can drive pretty much any car I desire if I'm given the keys.

Just like every American teenager ever.

I should report you for the absolute crap you're giving, but it's quite obvious you're just trying to provoke me so you can ban me.

And here it is, your favorite tack: everyone that disagrees with you is just trying to piss you off. Because (of course) you couldn't possibly be wrong.

In what way could an unexpected situation be my fault then? Go on, give me an example where it would be my fault. I take everything as it comes, you really ought to get a grip before you try feeding me crap.

And you ought to be prepared for every eventuality when you are driving - including the eventuality that your perfect driving skills will not save you in some situations.

 

[V1P3R]

Can you imagine this thread if we were in a George Jetson time with flying cars? I don't know how much more hilarious it would get, but I know I wouldn't get full on it.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

... then you're not in proper control of the car.

Have you ever watched anyone drive a a car with sporting intentions? The only time you don't cross over and shuffle instead is for drifting and obviously on average daily driving.

Quoted from Mazda and Motor Performance Driving Booklet(Published 2007)
These days, crossing your arms over while always aiming to place your thumbs into their respective cutaways- or the "crossover technique"- is considered the best method.

If you installed a full FIA-spec cage in a road car, then drove it round without a helmet, wearing an ordinary seat-belt, you've upped your risk of dying in an accident by quite an impressive margin. Racing cars aren't safer because they have a cage, or people wear helmets, or they have harnesses. They're safer because they have all of those things. What this has to do with road safety, or you posting images of 100mph+ accidents to argue against airbags is... mystifying.

Well instead of telling me I'm an ignorant bastard why don't you try telling me this in the first place?
Also, I'm sure that a Taurus in a suburbian street was an accident over 100mph.

Nobody is saying an unexpected situation would be your fault, but you really cannot predict the behaviour of other road users. A friend of mine recently witnessed an accident where a driver coming the other way took a corner way too quickly, hit the car two cars infront of him, flipped into the air, hit the car behind that one and then landed in a ditch next to my friend.

There is no way you could EVER predict something like that. And don't say you could because you couldn't unless you can break the laws of physics.

I've been driving for almost 5 years now and I've not has so much as a scrape or near miss, I've never gotten cocky about it so I'm still very cautious but you couldn't predict something like that.

That is exactly what Scaff said.

A situation could arise tomorrow that you have never before encountered on the road, your inability to deal with could result in an accident. That accident would be your fault.

So I round a blind corner and there's a cow in the middle of the road. When I crash trying to avoid it it's my fault the cow was there?
I'm not cocky about it, I'm proud, but cocky and proud are very different things. I'll be cautious until I'm an old man and stop driving, it's in my nature to do everything cautiously.

 

[Famine]

Have you ever watched anyone drive a a car with sporting intentions?

Yes. I've been in some.

The only time you don't cross over and shuffle instead is for drifting and obviously on average daily driving.

Or if you want to retain control of your car and, in the event of an accident, not have both of your wrists snapped like tinderwood.

Well instead of telling me I'm an ignorant bastard why don't you try telling me this in the first place?

I don't recall calling you an ignorant bastard. Clue: My words are in indigo.

That is exactly what Scaff said.

So I round a blind corner and there's a cow in the middle of the road. When I crash trying to avoid it it's my fault the cow was there?

Yes, it is. In fact that's a clear violation of commonsense rule #1 (and Roadcraft rule 1) - Always be sure you can stop in the distance you know to be clear.

 

[Scaff]

I should report you for the absolute crap you're giving, but it's quite obvious you're just trying to provoke me so you can ban me.

Feel free to do so.

In what way could an unexpected situation be my fault then? Go on, give me an example where it would be my fault. I take everything as it comes, you really ought to get a grip before you try feeding me crap.

I quite clearly explained that, any situation that a driver fails to anticipate or does not have the experience to deal with could result in them not being able to react in the correct manner.

The end result may well be an accident that the driver in question is at fault for.

Please keep in mind that I am not the one claiming that I will never have an accident that I am at fault for.

I have had an accident that I admit was my fault entirely, and it happened after I had been driving a damn sight more than two years.

Hesitation for lack of experience? How about, caution through wisdom and intelligence. Obviously you drive around like a mad man because you feel you are experienced?

So your two years have brought about a degree of wisdom that is so great that you will never, ever be the cause of an accident.

You seem to be forgetting that I am not the one making this claim, you are. I don't feel that I am an experienced driver, I know that I am am. However what that has also taught me is that you are always learning. a driving licence (full or open ao what ever a country calls it) is simply a piece of paper that states you are just about safe enough to carry of learning on your own.

Lets look at two situations.

A - Driver of 20+ years experience, having driven a wide range of vehicles, covered in excess of 350,000miles but who admits that the possibility that a situation may occur that they could be the cause of.

B - Driver of 2 years experience who claims they will never, ever cause an accident.

One of them does have a good deal of experience and the 'wisdom' to know that they can't control every situation they may face on the road, the other is quite honestly deluding themselves.

I learnt that airbags are unsafe for racing drivers from a qualified Safe Driving instructor. It's because if you're in a corner and your arms are crossed over the wheel as you hold onto it and the airbag goes off (say the car in front starts to lose it and at the speed you're doinf can't stop and hit him) that airbag will blast your arms straight into your face.

So not from a racing driver, but from a driving instructor.

Please remember that a member here who does race has already called you on this one.

Race cars have far different steering racks that a road car, most will have less than 200 degrees of travel, lock to lock. The need to cross arms is rarely a need in a full blown race car.

I think I'll believe a quailified person before I believe some spiteful stranger I met on the internet claiming to be a qualified person (yet clearly having no idea at all).

Quid Pro Quo.

We have no way of determining that the person you claim to be quoting in all of this is a qualified person, any more than you can prove or disprove what I have done. I will however stand by the posts I have made on here as evidence at the very least that I know what I am talking about. I'm more than confident that a large percentage of the membership would agree that I know what I am talking about, could you say the same?

One final question.

This skilled person you have delighted in quoting. What exactly do you think they would say in regard to your claim that you will never cause an accident?


Scaff

Edited to add

So I round a blind corner and there's a cow in the middle of the road. When I crash trying to avoid it it's my fault the cow was there?

Of course it not your fault the cow was there. However it was your fault that you drove around a blind bend without giving any thought to what may be around it, how could you avoid it if you needed to. What would be the result if you did hit something, etc, etc.

Absolutely 100% it would be your fault. I grew up in the country, I have gone around blind bends and found cows standing in the middle of the road on many occasions, never yet hit one, nor have I hit anything avoiding one. Blind bends = slow down enough to be able to stop should a cow/car/child/alien/any-bloody-thing-at-all be in the road.

 

[TheCracker]

So I round a blind corner and there's a cow in the middle of the road. When I crash trying to avoid it it's my fault the cow was there?

No, but it's your fault you crashed the car. Legally. If its a blind corner you should always expect to see the unexpected and drive at a speed where you could always stop the car in time.

 

[V1P3R]

Did you realize driving is not a RIGHT it's a privledge? A lot of young people don't know that... Among other stuff

So I round a blind corner and there's a cow in the middle of the road. When I crash trying to avoid it it's my fault the cow was there?

You know what... Just ignore us, see what happens and get back to us when it does. It's just a waste of time.

BTW, you never answered my scenario. I mean since you are an expert at driving

Ok, scenario time... You're coming to an intersection, you have a green light and a car following behind you. You have a car approaching on your left farther from the intersection than you but going faster than you heading toward you and they have a red light. What do you do if that person runs the red light... ? This shouldn't be hard for you since you've had 2 glorious years of experience.

If you want it to be a little harder add some water.

 

[Tornado]

I would just hit the cow. Free steak!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

BTW, you never answered my scenario. I mean since you are an expert at driving

.

And I can't see them? Was that what you said? If I can see them and it's clear they're not slowing down I would stop myself.

Edit: The blind corner was a bad example, let me give you this one. A far more likely one where I live. I'm driving along a straight country road at night, and a kangaroo jumps out from the tall grass on the side of the road right in front of me. I try to avoid it but given an allowed reaction time of about 2sec, I hit it at 70km/hr. Was that my fault because I didn't expect the kangaroo to jump out at that exact time, or should I drive at 10km/hr where ever I go?

 

[Joey D]

The way it works in Michigan, if you hit the cow (but probably would be a deer) you would not receive a ticket, however if you swerved to miss it and hit a tree you would be ticketed. At least that is what they told us in driver's training.

 

[Tornado]

As someone with only a couple of years myself, shouldn't you accelerate?

 

[V1P3R]

You can see them... it's a stop light intersection. BTW, you have a car following you... you sure you want to stop because they may not.

 

[Joey D]

Even if you hit someone while going through a green light while they had a red light you will still be ticketed for proceeding without a clear intersection. It's dumb I know, but you are still just as much at fault as the guy blowing the light. You should slam on your brakes as the guy behind should be at a safe distance.