Chevrolet Volt/Cadillac ELR Thread: 2016 EPA Ratings

[Joey D]

Except all those are good cars, they're just not selling.

They don't sell for a reason. People do not perceive them as good vehicles and really they aren't. They aren't bad but I wouldn't classify them as good. It's the same average stuff GM has put out for years and people are getting sick of unreliable vehicles that are poorly made. The Malibu is really the only vehicle that's selling decently and it's still not a knock out when compared to the Camry, Accord, or even the Fusion.

If a car doesn't not sell it should be branded as bad because it's not making the company money therefore useless.

===

On the CTS, it isn't a bad vehicle but I think I would rather take something from a pseudo-Japanese-American luxury brand like Lexus or Infiniti over a CTS. The quality with the CTS just isn't there.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

They don't sell for a reason. People do not perceive them as good vehicles and really they aren't. They aren't bad but I wouldn't classify them as good. It's the same average stuff GM has put out for years and people are getting sick of unreliable vehicles that are poorly made. The Malibu is really the only vehicle that's selling decently and it's still not a knock out when compared to the Camry, Accord, or even the Fusion.

If a car doesn't not sell it should be branded as bad because it's not making the company money therefore useless.

===

On the CTS, it isn't a bad vehicle but I think I would rather take something from a pseudo-Japanese-American luxury brand like Lexus or Infiniti over a CTS. The quality with the CTS just isn't there.

Never heard any complaints about the Alloytec/HF V6, in fact mechanics praise it down here, or at least the ones I talk to.
Really, they are good vehicles (speaking for G8, CTS and Astra). So the Astra's biggest downfall compared to competition is a lack of toque. If you're buying a car like that speed is not high on your needs list anyway.
What makes you think they're bad cars? Have you owned one for 5yrs? There are enough Commodores down here to know about them, and my step-father owns one with they Alloytec/HF V6 in it, not a single problem. Had it for a couple of years, no complaints at all.

Edit: Note- Seeing as people perceive my posts as attacks or fanboyism or what ever they feel the need to interpret, this is discussion, not argument. Thought I better clear that up.

 

[Joey D]

The Astra is the worse small car I've ever driven, it had understeer at normal cornering speeds and felt like it rode on a firm Jell-o substance. Not to mention the interior felt like I could poke my finger through it, it was so cheap and flimsy. For the price I don't know why anyone would consider it when there are better hatchbacks out there like the Mazda3.

I've heard of numerous complaints here with the G8, ask Omnis what his uncle thinks of the G8. GM aren't reliable, their electric systems are crap as are most of the transmission. Sure the engines are fine but I don't want a car that just has a reliable engine and nothing else. Everything has to be working on the car.

And I live in a place where more people own an "American" car then anywhere else in the US, just because I don't own one does not mean I don't hear the complaints of family members and friends.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The Astra is the worse small car I've ever driven, it had understeer at normal cornering speeds and felt like it rode on a firm Jell-o substance. Not to mention the interior felt like I could poke my finger through it, it was so cheap and flimsy. For the price I don't know why anyone would consider it when there are better hatchbacks out there like the Mazda3.

I've heard of numerous complaints here with the G8, ask Omnis what his uncle thinks of the G8. GM aren't reliable, their electric systems are crap as are most of the transmission. Sure the engines are fine but I don't want a car that just has a reliable engine and nothing else. Everything has to be working on the car.

And I live in a place where more people own an "American" car then anywhere else in the US, just because I don't own one does not mean I don't hear the complaints of family members and friends.

Australia and USA have very different cars then, despite being the same. My Ute is going to be 15yrs old soon, another great example as not a single thing on it doesn't work, and I have never replaced anything that wasn't a part of the engine, which were minor things.
Having understeer at normal speeds is impossible for a hatch like that, your idea of normal speeds must be tyre shredding. I sincerely hope I get a drive in an Astra soon. As for the rest of the cars, I'll just continue driving GM made vehicles without a worry in the world.

 

[Joey D]

Speed are much higher here I guess, 55 down a curvy road (it was the limit) and the car had slight understeer developing...or at least it felt like it did. The Astra wasn't planted and had the worst suspension set up of any hatchback I've ever been in. The thing is rubbish and most of the people here think so too. I've probably seen three on the road.

Just because you vehicle hasn't had any problems does not mean it's the norm for GM. Older GM vehicles tend to work just fine but also have many problems with them. Remember a GM will run s***** longer then most vehicles will run at all. The thing is though I want my vehicle to run good for a long time, not crappy.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Speed are much higher here I guess, 55 down a curvy road (it was the limit) and the car had slight understeer developing...or at least it felt like it did. The Astra wasn't planted and had the worst suspension set up of any hatchback I've ever been in. The thing is rubbish and most of the people here think so too. I've probably seen three on the road.

Just because you vehicle hasn't had any problems does not mean it's the norm for GM. Older GM vehicles tend to work just fine but also have many problems with them. Remember a GM will run s***** longer then most vehicles will run at all. The thing is though I want my vehicle to run good for a long time, not crappy.

Hang on, so older GM vehicles run fine (which I thought in the US most didn't?), yet the new ones run crappy for longer? Well, if they're new, how do you know they run longer? I'm also quite sure that from the cars Philly listed earlier, they all run well. If you're upset over a few bumps in the road being felt a bit, I sincerely hope you have no intentions of buying a sports car. Unless it was race car hard why is a slightly firm feeling so bad? Unless of course you're injured or an elderly person.

Edit: Yes, 55 on a curvy road sounds pretty fast for average driving. I'd still really like to get my butt in an Astra.

 

[Tornado]

So the Astra's biggest downfall compared to competition is a lack of toque.

In America the Astra's biggest problem (besides being badged as a Saturn, of course) is that we were promised a world standard Euro fighter (which is laughable considering the car is substandard in Europe as well), and we got a car that is smaller, less practical, less powerful, less fuel efficient, more expensive and cheaper quality than the Cobalt that is often times sold alongside it.
Which is really what we would have gotten regardless of the hype, but the hype didn't help.

 

[Omnis]

I see, that's why it always garners such positive reviews.

Yeah, but all those reviews have the car well- or moderately-equipped. And those are 40-60k. The bare bones CTS is crap, especially when you can get a fully-equipped G8 for just under 30 grand.

 

[Joey D]

Hang on, so older GM vehicles run fine (which I thought in the US most didn't?), yet the new ones run crappy for longer? Well, if they're new, how do you know they run longer? I'm also quite sure that from the cars Philly listed earlier, they all run well. If you're upset over a few bumps in the road being felt a bit, I sincerely hope you have no intentions of buying a sports car. Unless it was race car hard why is a slightly firm feeling so bad? Unless of course you're injured or an elderly person.

Edit: Yes, 55 on a curvy road sounds pretty fast for average driving. I'd still really like to get my butt in an Astra.

It's in general, the general saying is about GM cars running crappy for longer then most cars will run at all.

 

[YSSMAN]

Pretty much... Its one of my favorite things to say about GM as well, and it something that I can confirm. Our first-generation Chevrolet Astro was a soldier, no one would question that. We had that damn thing for so long and it ran so terribly most of the time, I was SHOCKED when my Dad went about buying a new one when they changed the generation over. While there weren't exactly major problems with the van, it was the little things that you kept on having to fix that were bothersome. While there were some Toyota Previas that went in and out in that time, the Astro kept going, and going, and going and going. It was like an old person who was on the verge of death, but they just wouldn't die!

GM aren't reliable, their electric systems are crap as are most of the transmission. Sure the engines are fine but I don't want a car that just has a reliable engine and nothing else. Everything has to be working on the car.

I think it depends on what car or truck you're talking about under these circumstances. Transmission issues are usually few and far between, however, I know there was a pretty big issue with the 4T45E and the 4T60E, something with a pinion gear (as I recall) that causes it to grind, eventually wear out, and lock up the gearbox. That's while you'll hear that "berrrzzzzz" noise with a lot of older Grand Am and Impala models.

As for electronic issues, that's hit and miss as well. With the Corvette, that's always been a problem, and as far as newer cars are concerned, I haven't heard of too many complaints across the board. I know my Grandfather's '07 Yukon had an issue with the stereo, which I believe was just a faulty unit, but with all of our '03-'07 models, we haven't had any electronic ghosts at all.

RE: Saturn Astra

Its a "good car," don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people who like the look and the feel of the car. The problem is, I went in looking for a VW-style driving experience and I came away disappointed. Perhaps it was the lack of a stick, or maybe it was the fact that I had driven the Mazda3 just before, but it wasn't what I liked... With the higher price attached to it as compared to the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5, its no wonder that they've only sold about 10% of what they had originally anticipated. Beyond the FACT that most of the Saturn dealers never received proper training on how to sell the car, or for that matter, never understood how to push them out the door.

Sounds like what happened with the G8, CTS, Saturn lineup, Malibu and a couple others.

"Saving GM" is a long process, and while some of those models may not be having the success that they deserve, the important part of their history will likely be that they served as "milestone" cars that benchmarked new levels of quality, performance, and best of all a competitive price. The G8, unfortunately, came at the wrong time as gas prices began to soar. While they're selling fairly well (mostly V6 models), GM never planned to have a blowout sale with them, they always remained fairly grounded in their outlook on the car.

As for the CTS, I think that has exceeded expectations for a lot of people, and consequently it has brought back a lot of positive attention to the brand. Although not all of the cars are up to par in the Cadillac lineup, they've modified enough of them to hold over until the new models come out. Given the performance of the CTS, it makes me very excited to think about what a new SRX (going Theta), Escalade (going Lambda), and BLS (Alpha) will do.

Saturn, however, continues to be a quagmire for GM. While I would regularly say that it has its own place in the lineup, they're letting it flounder again, and that won't cut it. The Aura was a "benchmark" car, and paved the way for the Malibu. The VUE continues to be a strong-seller, and I anticipate that the VUE Two-Mode will continue that trend. The Outlook unfortunately has been a casualty of brand engineering, and will likely be left to die as the Traverse debuts. The Astra is still a good car, but if they aren't going to sell it right, they may as well not sell it at all.

...They need to adjust Saturn if they want to keep it, most GM fans are in agreement there...

 

[Philly]

I did a little rearranging to get things grouped by subject a little better...

"Saving GM" is a long process, and while some of those models may not be having the success that they deserve, the important part of their history will likely be that they served as "milestone" cars that benchmarked new levels of quality, performance, and best of all a competitive price. The G8, unfortunately, came at the wrong time as gas prices began to soar. While they're selling fairly well (mostly V6 models), GM never planned to have a blowout sale with them, they always remained fairly grounded in their outlook on the car.

I would be a little scared if this was the quality benchmark that GM is supposed to ride at. It is an improvement, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's enough of an improvement. One problem is the competition. Everybody is working really hard to move every car as upmarket as they can and stay in their same class. Another issue is sales. If these really were high quality cars, people would buy them. I know me being in Seattle might not give the best representation of how the Big 3 are doing, and people don't too particularly want to go into GM dealers, but I think I would have seen far more than just 3 G8s on the road all summer if it was a really competitive car.

RE: Saturn Astra

Its a "good car," don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people who like the look and the feel of the car. The problem is, I went in looking for a VW-style driving experience and I came away disappointed. Perhaps it was the lack of a stick, or maybe it was the fact that I had driven the Mazda3 just before, but it wasn't what I liked... With the higher price attached to it as compared to the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5, its no wonder that they've only sold about 10% of what they had originally anticipated. Beyond the FACT that most of the Saturn dealers never received proper training on how to sell the car, or for that matter, never understood how to push them out the door.

Bob Lutz said that the reason they can't push them out the door is because the car just isn't economical. Hopefully the new one can be both priced more competitively and offer a bit more quality. If GM can build a good car of that size for Europe, I still have no doubts that the right car will do well here, seeing that the car market here is shifting more in that direction. It'll be interesting to see what GM can do and how it'll stack up against others like the Golf VI and Focus III.

Saturn, however, continues to be a quagmire for GM. While I would regularly say that it has its own place in the lineup, they're letting it flounder again, and that won't cut it. The Aura was a "benchmark" car, and paved the way for the Malibu. The VUE continues to be a strong-seller, and I anticipate that the VUE Two-Mode will continue that trend. The Outlook unfortunately has been a casualty of brand engineering, and will likely be left to die as the Traverse debuts. The Astra is still a good car, but if they aren't going to sell it right, they may as well not sell it at all.

...They need to adjust Saturn if they want to keep it, most GM fans are in agreement there...

What is Saturn's role, and how much does that role going to overlap with either what other brands are offering or what other brands are moving towards? The current idea of Saturn is good, but I agree that some work will have to be done. Because obviously what Gm did the first time didn't work out, aside from the Vue, which was already selling well.

 

[Tornado]

What is Saturn's role, and how much does that role going to overlap with either what other brands are offering or what other brands are moving towards?

No one, within GM or not, seems to know anymore.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't even know anymore... So its a tough call. If you ask a GM person, you're likely to hear quite a few different things. I'm personally under the assumption these days that Saturn is meant to be a VW competitor, a far cry from their origional intent of being a Toyota/Honda-killer. That job has now passed down to Chevrolet, and Saturn's previous incarnation as an Acura-fighter seems to have been passed over to Pontiac, and to a larger extent, up to Buick.

With GMC likely to face the chopping block, we're going to see Saturn integrated into whats left of the BPG network... And I have no idea how the hell that's supposed to work unless Pontiac cuts their lineup down to just the G8, Solstice and maybe the G5 (which I hear will be dead soon). If Saturn becomes the direct-arm of Opel/Vauxhall, go ahead, but otherwise... I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Philly]

It does seem to make sense that Saturn is to go up against VW, at least with the Astra competing with the Rabbit. The Aura seems like it would be better suited going against the Camry or Accord. The Opel version seems to fall in that class across the pond at least. But, like you said, Chevy is seemed ever more as a Honda competitor.

Pontiac probably doesn't have to lose the G6, especially since that seems to be the only newer Pontiac I ever see around. If GM set it apart a little from everything else, I'm sure it would do fine. Although I still think a RWD one would be very cool.

 

[McLaren]

The CTS is a piece of crap unless you're looking to spend 50k.

I highly disagree. A base CTS with just a level one performance & luxury package, plus the audio system with nav. just runs over $40K, which are all pretty damn good options, esp. over the crappy interior that GM has selected for the G8.

The CTS is a very nice car, and I'd rather spend the money to get one than the G8. It's a much nicer car in every aspect, so you pay for what you get. I don't even consider the G8 to be competition to the CTS.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

In America the Astra's biggest problem (besides being badged as a Saturn, of course) is that we were promised a world standard Euro fighter (which is laughable considering the car is substandard in Europe as well), and we got a car that is smaller, less practical, less powerful, less fuel efficient, more expensive and cheaper quality than the Cobalt that is often times sold alongside it.
Which is really what we would have gotten regardless of the hype, but the hype didn't help.

New generation is due very very soon, when you think about it this Astra has been around for a long time now, and they're spneding a long time getting this next Astra right, so maybe the next one will be the one this one was meant to be. Now I just want to say one one more time.

It's in general, the general saying is about GM cars running crappy for longer then most cars will run at all.

I see, well that still sounds reliable enough to me, as running crappy implies it's only little things that ever break, and you afford to fix little things when you can afford them, not immediately because they're not urgent.
Now it won't be long until I fix my country like ride height.

 

[Joey D]

Well here is an example, ok two examples.

- My Blazer had a bad transmission and differential, it would slip all the time while driving, mostly at 70mph on the highway. The engine would leak all sorts of things, including oil and coolant (remember only 60,000 miles). The A/C didn't work and the heat worked only in the summer. The driver side front brake was bad no matter what I replaced on it. However it still started up every time I put the key in and would move forward with a clunk.

- My mom had a Pontiac Sunbird back in the early 90's (awful car) that had more wrong with it then I can ever list, broken power steering, no A/C or heat, no radio, leaked everything, etc. It still ran for well over 120,000 miles before catching on fire.

These vehicles still ran but a good deal of the vehicle was broken, that's my point. A GM vehicle will typically start up and drive along but the driver will be less than thrilled with their experience in the car. Have you ever been in winter with a 0F with a -20F windchill with no heat? I wore a snowmobile suit that day I had to go to school, but the most surprising thing was the Blazer started right up with a bit of coaxing.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Well here is an example, ok two examples.

- My Blazer had a bad transmission and differential, it would slip all the time while driving, mostly at 70mph on the highway. The engine would leak all sorts of things, including oil and coolant (remember only 60,000 miles). The A/C didn't work and the heat worked only in the summer. The driver side front brake was bad no matter what I replaced on it. However it still started up every time I put the key in and would move forward with a clunk.

- My mom had a Pontiac Sunbird back in the early 90's (awful car) that had more wrong with it then I can ever list, broken power steering, no A/C or heat, no radio, leaked everything, etc. It still ran for well over 120,000 miles before catching on fire.

These vehicles still ran but a good deal of the vehicle was broken, that's my point. A GM vehicle will typically start up and drive along but the driver will be less than thrilled with their experience in the car. Have you ever been in winter with a 0F with a -20F windchill with no heat? I wore a snowmobile suit that day I had to go to school, but the most surprising thing was the Blazer started right up with a bit of coaxing.

Wow, never heard of cars ever being that bad, ever. My friend's early '80s Starfire 4cyl VC Commodore is a bad car, yet she still goes, and he thrashes it. There's not much broken on it to speak of though, but then again there's not much in it to get broken in the first place. Old cars always get that way though, the most I've heard of with new cars messing up is little lights behind switches playing up. That's it really.

 

[YSSMAN]

- My mom had a Pontiac Sunbird back in the early 90's (awful car) that had more wrong with it then I can ever list, broken power steering, no A/C or heat, no radio, leaked everything, etc. It still ran for well over 120,000 miles before catching on fire.

First rule about small GM car clubs:

Don't talk about the J-body.

 

[Philly]

These vehicles still ran but a good deal of the vehicle was broken, that's my point. A GM vehicle will typically start up and drive along but the driver will be less than thrilled with their experience in the car. Have you ever been in winter with a 0F with a -20F windchill with no heat? I wore a snowmobile suit that day I had to go to school, but the most surprising thing was the Blazer started right up with a bit of coaxing.

Could it be that they are designed in the country's worst climate? If you're going to design a car in a Michigan winter, it should probably be able to survive it.

We actually had similar problems with the Taurii that have been in the family. The one my parents owned was always in the shop for something or another, but I don't think we ever had trouble starting it. However, that's too much for some people as my parents have vowed to never buy another American car. Hell, my dad even got bored/mad at me for checking out the new GM vehicles at the Chicago show, wanting to go looks at "real" cars.

The other Taurus is still running fine, and I think that thing's been around longer than I have. As are the Saturn my Aunt and Uncle have. You can tell it doesn't want to run, but it does.

 

[YSSMAN]

Thats how our Grand Prix is. When the Toyota and the VW gave up last winter, that old war horse kept going hard... It even brings back memories of an old friend's J-Body (never talk about them, right?), which had lost a cylinder and had a transmission that as I recall only worked in two gears. But I'll be damned if that thing didn't start up every day, and get him around town. It took FOREVER for that car to die, but funnily enough, he replaced it with a Grand Prix.

 

[Joey D]

I think GM actually does their cold weather testing way up in Canada, I seem to remember a buddy of mine's mom going up there for two weeks in January and she it was the most miserable experience of her life with the cold weather and constant darkness.

I'm actually curious how the Volt will handle cold weather, I'm no electrical expert so I'm not sure what affect extreme cold has on batteries.

 

[Tornado]

If I recall correctly it actually makes them more efficient.

 

[niky]

Cold is good for electric motors, but I'm not so sure about batteries... depending on what type they are.

 

[Omnis]

I highly disagree. A base CTS with just a level one performance & luxury package, plus the audio system with nav. just runs over $40K, which are all pretty damn good options, esp. over the crappy interior that GM has selected for the G8.

The CTS is a very nice car, and I'd rather spend the money to get one than the G8. It's a much nicer car in every aspect, so you pay for what you get. I don't even consider the G8 to be competition to the CTS.

Again, I disagree. But, let's not go off-topic.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

If I recall correctly it actually makes them more efficient.

Cold dry conditions are certainly better for conducting electricity, and I guess there was some reasoning behind it that we used to put near flat batteries in the fridge.

 

[Philly]

Cold is good for electric motors, but I'm not so sure about batteries... depending on what type they are.

I know my cell phone has a bit of a hard time holding a charge in cold weather.

 

[Freddie]

Different types of batteries. The Volt's going to use Li-Ion batteries, right? That's what mobile phones use. Those have an optimal performance at around 20 centigrades, I think. Not exactly cold-weather friendly, but probably solved by having them insulated to keep them close to optimal conditions as often as possible.

 

[YSSMAN]

As far as I know, its the new Lithium-Ion type batteries. They're doing all the testing now to get stuff out of the way, just so we don't have problems later.

 

[Sage]

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2011-chevy-volt/

Looks pretty good. 👍 And you’re much less likely to look like a (s)wat than if you’re driving a Prius.