Chevrolet Volt/Cadillac ELR Thread: 2016 EPA Ratings

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You are right in saying that there will be a small petrol engine to charge the batteries, that's how the system works. It's a plug in hybrid of sorts, which really doesn't solve the fuel crisis since it's using fossil fuel power to charge the batteries, but that's another topic.

I'm not saying the SS will have a V6 or anything, but I do expect a sports version with better suspension, tires, and an aero kit. Possibly higher out put batteries or something? I'm not really sure on how electric vehicles work.
 
Joey D
I'm not saying the SS will have a V6 or anything, but I do expect a sports version with better suspension, tires, and an aero kit. Possibly higher out put batteries or something? I'm not really sure on how electric vehicles work.
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Just making sure. I wasn't sure what you meant by an SS version, and I was mostly commenting on what JCE and Jim Prower were saying about different engines.

A sports version of the thing like you described would be really cool:tup:. It's not too often that a sportier version brings in mostly handling upgrades. As for more power, I would expect a higher power motor would do fine, but any motor can only do so much with a fixed current. I would assume GM would need to develop better batteries before performance gets too far out of hand.:p
 
Joey D
I'm not saying the SS will have a V6 or anything, but I do expect a sports version with better suspension, tires, and an aero kit. Possibly higher out put batteries or something? I'm not really sure on how electric vehicles work.
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A "sport" model would be out of the question, but it certainly won't wear an SS badge unless it has some serious sporting capability.
 
If there is not sport version of this then it is a waste. I don't care if they stuff a LARGER ELECTRIC MOTOR--it needs to have the OPTION to be cool and sporty. I mean, its got aggressive looks for christ sakes.
 
It's not meant to be a sporty car though, it's simply being made to prove that a large scale electric car can be made. It's just a stepping stone for this technology and GM thought they would put it in a car that didn't look like complete crap ala the EV-1.
 
Hm. The engine powers batteries. Batteries power drive motors.

What does that remind me of?

RPRX_2402_Green_Goat_Jacksonville_FL_021905_0979.jpg


(and that one has batteries and a small diesel to charge them. Same idea, different application.)

Unfortunately, driving with electric traction motors leaves me cold. Give me pistons driving the wheels mechanically, and we'll talk.

I always liked Steam, anyway. Steam has a soul. Like a stick-shift, petrol (or alcohol-burning) car.

((On the other hand, if the Volt sells well enough, more gasoline for meeeee....))
 
JCE3000GT
If there is not sport version of this then it is a waste. I don't care if they stuff a LARGER ELECTRIC MOTOR--it needs to have the OPTION to be cool and sporty. I mean, its got aggressive looks for christ sakes.
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How can we complain that a car looks good? I don't think GM should be docked for designing a car that looks too good. What would you want them to do, make an automotive impression of a potato or something?

And I disagree with your impression of sporty. I believe that with suspension tuning, tires and a more powerful electric system, they can make a perfectly sporting car. If they can find a way to get a decently powered motor in the thing, I would bet that it will run circles around established sports cars like the GTI, Cooper S and other cars like that. The car will have max torque starting at 0 miles per hour all the way up to it's top speed. If they manage to make the thing go and turn faster than the cars listed above, will it be sporty? Or does a car have to have a petrol engine with 6 or more cylinders to be sporty?

EDIT: On Jim Prower's choo choo reference:

This is exactly why I am very excited about the technology. Obviously there are advantages over regular locomotives or else the diesel-electric train wouldn't exist. And trains are arguably the best things at towing heavy loads. That is where I see the technology going. it will be most useful there IMO.
 
Correction: Max torque at 0mph, trailing off as it accellerates to speed.

Any Diesel locomotive engineer will tell you that the traction motors pull hardest when they start the train, and the amperage and tractive effort lowers as the train accellerates. Yes, you can build a train that'll hit 300mph, but the torque curve is the same. It's really the biggest hurdle electric cars have to being sporty: you beat the 'Vette off the line, but come the end of the straight, you run out of steam. Not to mention, you can't row your own gears, there's no soul-stirring sound, and the whole experience just feels...fake.
 
Jim Prower
Correction: Max torque at 0mph, trailing off as it accellerates to speed.
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Thanks for correcting that.:)

Any Diesel locomotive engineer will tell you that the traction motors pull hardest when they start the train, and the amperage and tractive effort lowers as the train accellerates. Yes, you can build a train that'll hit 300mph, but the torque curve is the same. It's really the biggest hurdle electric cars have to being sporty: you beat the 'Vette off the line, but come the end of the straight, you run out of steam. Not to mention, you can't row your own gears, there's no soul-stirring sound, and the whole experience just feels...fake.
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Do you know how the curve is compared to a petrol engine? Is it so steep that the low end grunt won't account for what a similarly powered gas engine makes up for later in the rev range? I'm not too up on the workings of electric motors.
 
Well, it depends on gearing, too, but generally electrics trail off at the top end where many gasoline engines still pull strong. That low end torque is mega fun around the city, but at highway speeds, it probably won't be as strong at WOT as a high-performance gas or diesel engine of similar output would be. Many of those videos of little electric cars beating exotics in drag races have to do more with Power-weight ratio and gearing (and the torque curve) than acutal performance.

The reason diesel locomotives use electric traction motors is for mechanical simplicity, as mechanical transmissions for such vechicles would be incredibly complex: and they have been tried.

On another note, If freight locomotives are any indication, Direct-Current motors have less trail-off than Alternating-Current motors, but the AC motors put forth more tractive effort (For given horsepower) at those low speeds.
 
So should we see some pretty low gearing? I don't really see any reason to get a Volt going over 100 miles per hour. If GM can make the gearing so that the car can pull well in highway traffic with a "low" top speed, I would be happier than if the car was incredibly dull on the highway yet could go 140 mph. In order to use the speed, you have to be able to get there.

I guess that's good to know about the freight train transmissions. So maybe there isn't much hope for the technology in heavier applications? Maybe some heavy truckers would be happy not having to row through 18 gears using two different transmissions at once.

Anybody know what type of motor we will be seeing? I would guess a DC jsut so the performance is more similar across the board or would GM go for the AC and try to use that low end power to it's advantage?
 
The thing I really like about the Volt is that it gives you a choice: If you live 20 miles or less from work, you can use it as a pure electric car everyday and charge it up at night. If you need to go on a much longer trip, the combustion engine generates electricity for it, and the engine is always running at max efficiency. It's brilliant. Make it cheap enough and it'll sell like hotcakes.
 
Grand Prix
The thing I really like about the Volt is that it gives you a choice: If you live 20 miles or less from work, you can use it as a pure electric car everyday and charge it up at night. If you need to go on a much longer trip, the combustion engine generates electricity for it, and the engine is always running at max efficiency. It's brilliant. Make it cheap enough and it'll sell like hotcakes.
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And if you live 40 miles away, you can get to work only on electric power and return on electric power if your work happens to have a plug in spot.:)

And I never thought about having the engine running at maximum efficiency the whole way. Good point.👍 All of a sudden that 150 mpg seems even more real.
 
The AC motor trails off TOO quickly for automotive purposes. Furthermore, to convert battery power to tractive power would require an inverter, equipment that's not that practical when batteries store power in DC. Locomotives use a giant alternator, which creates AC power, but converts it to DC (or runs it straight to the traction motors.) Thus AC traction motors are convenient for railroads to use when loads are heavy and speeds are slow, such as in coal drags. DC locomotives tend to be used in fast freight.

I could see Hybrid technology applied in big rigs, but I'd more likely see something like hybrid synergy drive, with the diesel providing some power when needed. Big diesels are difficult to start and stop, though. Perhaps CAT's working on something to that effect, but the big thing right now is the strict emissions.
 
The good thing about a vehicle that could do 150mpg is that you would only really need a 2-3 gallon petrol tank, which means the car would be lighter and there would be more room for other things...like passengers.
 
What about all the battery room? I think that makes up for any savings on the gas tank. at this point, anyway.
 
Give it time, they will develop batteries that aren't ridiculously huge and take up a ton of room. Since I really don't know the inner workings of the car I can't comment on how the Volt's batteries would be though.
 
Yeah. The battery will probably take up the bulk of the gas tank savings. I would be surprised if GM didn't have an especially beefy battery in there seeing that it will be constantly charging and discharging while in use, and it seems like batteries don't like that all that much.

Jim Prower
I could see Hybrid technology applied in big rigs, but I'd more likely see something like hybrid synergy drive, with the diesel providing some power when needed. Big diesels are difficult to start and stop, though. Perhaps CAT's working on something to that effect, but the big thing right now is the strict emissions.
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Are AC motors going to be impractical for big rigs? I can imagine they would be useful for the heavy loads and speeds that really don't need to be much above 60. Could it run electrically at freeway speeds and just save the mechanical diesel power for the mountains? Surely that could make trucking much cheaper.
 
But, stopping and thinking about it, if it DOES get that kind of milage in the real world, it'll have to have a small fuel tank, or otherwise your fuel could go stale!

EDIT: Addressing Philly

hm. I dont know about that. I'd guess DC (again, no inverter required, Batteries cannot store AC) but I know that truckers often run above 60...I've seen 'em do 70, 80+. ;)

You'd probably start out seeing passive hybrids in trucks, then more full hybrids as systems that can take the heavy loads emerge. Truckers would like the luxury of having regenerative brakes in the mountains, though, which Locomotive engineers have been enjoying for years. (Though, the locomotive guys have been turning the current into heat instead of extra power, as they haven't stuck big battery banks into locomotives until recently.)
 
I don't think it could go stale. Let's just say you had a 10 gallon tank meaning you could go 1500 miles between fill ups, I drive no less then 400 miles per week which means I would be filling up about once a month if I had a Volt. I think there are some old folks that don't even drive that much and their cars still work :lol:.
 
Joey D
I don't think it could go stale. Let's just say you had a 10 gallon tank meaning you could go 1500 miles between fill ups, I drive no less then 400 miles per week which means I would be filling up about once a month if I had a Volt. I think there are some old folks that don't even drive that much and their cars still work :lol:.
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When I'm driving, I usually have to hit up the gas station every 2 to three days. That would make for a huge savings on gas, at least with the amount I drive. And the performance will probably discourage my current driving style, so even more savings.

Sounds like somebody has to do the math again and tell us how long it will take for this car to break even over a standard engine:sly:👍.

EDIT: Back to Jim....

I would guess trucking companies might choose to have their drivers go a good 10 mph slower if it meant better city performance. It would be much safer too. I would be scared of a truck going 80:eek:. But I don't know much about the practicality of the inverters and such. Maybe that would be something we would see much farther down the road.
 
Meh, good point, even with 10 gallons, it wouldn't be like storing it in your lawnmower all winter.
 
philly cheese
Sounds like somebody has to do the math again and tell us how long it will take for this car to break even over a standard engine:sly:👍.
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I'll assume $30,000 for the Volt since that seems to be what most people think it will be. I will also take today's national average price of petrol at $2.99 (source:http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/).

Assuming the Volt is $30,000 and gets 150mpg average and has a 5 gallon fuel tank (I honestly can't see it being more than that). This means you would be able to go 750miles on one tank of fuel. To fill up the vehicle you would be looking at spending $14.95 if gas was $2.99.

Now to see how much I will get screwed I'll compare it to the Mini Cooper which has an average fuel economy of 32mpg and has a 13 gallon tank (I think, the internet say 10 but that is wrong). This means I can go 416 miles in between fill ups and it would cost me $42.77 to fill up (I burn premium which the national average is $3.26).

Assuming we both drive 12,000 miles per year the Volt drive would have to fill up 16 times and would be spending $239.20 in fuel costs. Where as me in the Mini would have to fill up 29 times in a year and would spend $1240.33 in fuel cost. That's a difference of $1001.13 per year!

The Mini costs about $19,000 base, $11,000 cheaper then the Volt for all you math whizzes out there. So you really would be breaking even in about 11 years, which isn't bad compared to the huge price difference in the cars. If you compare it to a $23,000 Prius or $25,000 Jetta TDI then you really see how the Volt can pay off rather quickly.
 
Joey D
I'll assume $30,000 for the Volt since that seems to be what most people think it will be. I will also take today's national average price of petrol at $2.99 (source:http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/).

Assuming the Volt is $30,000 and gets 150mpg average and has a 5 gallon fuel tank (I honestly can't see it being more than that). This means you would be able to go 750miles on one tank of fuel. To fill up the vehicle you would be looking at spending $14.95 if gas was $2.99.

Now to see how much I will get screwed I'll compare it to the Mini Cooper which has an average fuel economy of 32mpg and has a 13 gallon tank (I think, the internet say 10 but that is wrong). This means I can go 416 miles in between fill ups and it would cost me $42.77 to fill up (I burn premium which the national average is $3.26).

Assuming we both drive 12,000 miles per year the Volt drive would have to fill up 16 times and would be spending $239.20 in fuel costs. Where as me in the Mini would have to fill up 29 times in a year and would spend $1240.33 in fuel cost. That's a difference of $1001.13 per year!

The Mini costs about $19,000 base, $11,000 cheaper then the Volt for all you math whizzes out there. So you really would be breaking even in about 11 years, which isn't bad compared to the huge price difference in the cars. If you compare it to a $23,000 Prius or $25,000 Jetta TDI then you really see how the Volt can pay off rather quickly.
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Awesome. 👍
 
If this car is priced right I can see it selling quite well and taking away quite a few sales from those who are already buying hybrids.
 
I'm going to just say I still think it needs a sport model, even if the only thing they do is stiffer suspension and some aero kit. And my impression of sporty suits me just like everyone else's suits them.
 
Joey D
The Mini costs about $19,000 base, $11,000 cheaper then the Volt for all you math whizzes out there. So you really would be breaking even in about 11 years, which isn't bad compared to the huge price difference in the cars. If you compare it to a $23,000 Prius or $25,000 Jetta TDI then you really see how the Volt can pay off rather quickly.
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All of a sudden, I feel less enthusiastic about the car. With such exceptional fuel mileage, I wouldn't be surprised if it payed off over the Prius before the MINI. You will probably make up at least $500 in gas over the Prius and the smaller difference in price to the Prius will probably be cut down much faster.

I might need to get one just to laugh at all the poor Prius driving Seattleites who think they are saving the planet with their Earth muffin mobiles and have a bumper sticker saying "My hybrid is greener than yours" and then hit the gas blowing by them with a finger out the window asking if they can do that while staying on battery power.
 
...Lest one forget that Toyota is trying to out-Volt the Volt with its own plug-in model. Problem is, it doesn't use nearly the same system as seen in the Chevrolet, and the Volt will end up beating the next-gen Prius to market by more than a year.
 
Also if GM prices it right it will be a huge win for them, hopefully they can see that.
 
YSSMAN
...Lest one forget that Toyota is trying to out-Volt the Volt with its own plug-in model. Problem is, it doesn't use nearly the same system as seen in the Chevrolet, and the Volt will end up beating the next-gen Prius to market by more than a year.
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I wouldn't consider the Prius to be much of a competitor to the Volt, seeing that the Volt uses such a different system and gets far better mileage. I guess you could say that they are competing but it is between two different segments that are so sparsely filled they can compete.

Anything on that plug-in Toyota? Unless it somehow incorporates a petrol engine, I'm going to say failure:tdown:. Just maybe I could see people in Seattle, Portland, LA and NYC buying a few.
 
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