Co-Driver dies at Wales

[TheCracker]

Yet their perpetual attempts to slow the cars themselves down are met with ever-faster cars. The track changes are secondary (and more preventative) to the grooved tyres (which offer less grip than slicks), reduced engine capacity (which has had no effect at all - so much so that they're lopping two whole cylinders off), reduced wing area (which reduces grip through the corners). It's true that unregulated - or at least unaltered regulation from 1994 - vehicle specs would see massively fast F1 cars today, whereas we only have awesomely fast ones. They're still faster than they were in 1994, just as today's WRC cars are faster than 1986's Group B cars...

Agree totally - you can't stop progress, not at this level of manufacturer commitment. F1 cars will be back upto +800bhp within a handful of seasons, aerodynamic progress will re-gain lost grip in a similar amount of time - its inevitable, they just learn to gain in other areas. Any changes they make to WRC regulations will have the same effect. The best thing the FIA can do for the sport is to improve safety at the circuits and on the stages so faster cars can be accommodated in years to come. Reducing power and grip can only ever be a temporary measure.

Imola outright lap record: 1'19.753 (J. Button; 2004)
Imola race lap record: 1'20.411 (M. Schumacher; 2004)
Imola 2005 race fastest lap (4.933km): 1'21.858 (M. Schumacher) - 134.8mph
Imola 2005 qualifying fastest lap (4.933km): 1'19.886 (M. Schumacher) - 138.2mph
Imola 1994 race fastest lap (5.040km): 1'24.335 (D. Hill) - 133.7mph
Imola 1994 qualifying fastest lap (5.040km): 1'21.548 (A. Senna) - 138.3mph

(check out Senna's qualifying lap... The cars are markedly faster in race trim, but Senna's average speed in qualifying is scary. Button is marginally faster though, on a track which has been "slowed down")

Sticking a chicane in the middle of a highspeed, flat-out corner is always going do that for you. Improvements in tyre technology is always the biggest factor in the lap-time equation.

 

[den brakke]

I heard the news when I got in, at Margam of all places.

Has anyone seen footage?

Surely a sturdier rollcage would be a better suggestion, Famine? (Even though they are strong already.)

I've seen 3 pictures of it, but i am not going to post them because Michael is stil in it.

 

[Tornado]

Yet their perpetual attempts to slow the cars themselves down are met with ever-faster cars. The track changes are secondary (and more preventative) to the grooved tyres (which offer less grip than slicks), reduced engine capacity (which has had no effect at all - so much so that they're lopping two whole cylinders off), reduced wing area (which reduces grip through the corners). It's true that unregulated - or at least unaltered regulation from 1994 - vehicle specs would see massively fast F1 cars today, whereas we only have awesomely fast ones. They're still faster than they were in 1994, just as today's WRC cars are faster than 1986's Group B cars...

Another good example of this is Le Sarthe. The old Group C cars went slower than the current LMPs do, despite the two chicanes on Hunadaires, the less horsepower, and the removal of ground effects from the cars.

 

[Danny]

My condolences to the family of Mr. Park.

 

[VTRacing]

Ok, I've held back from posting in this thread for a while so that my initial shock could pass. Obviously, I express my condolences to the family of Michael Park, particularly to his wife and children in this dark time.

We all know motorsport is dangerous, and that is part of the attraction for some, but no competitor has that side of the sport in his or her mind when they compete. Unfortunately, it takes an incident like this to refresh our memories and open old wounds of friends we have lost.

But this is a sport we love, with all its associated risks. The worst response would be to emasculate it with possibly damaging regulations. I've seen a few people advocating less power for the cars, changes to tyre regulations (yes I know you didn't advocate it Famine) and from experience I think that would be a mistake.
With two exceptions, the biggest accidents I have seen in the Australian Championship over the past few years have not been in the outright competition, which is fierce, given that it's an all Group N series. The biggest accidents are in the Subaru Challenge, which is a one-make series using the Impreza RS, a normally-aspirated 2.5 litre. They have about 120kW/220Nm. So they are not exactly fast in a straight line.
And that is the problem. Because they take so long to get up to speed you never want to let off the throttle, even when you know it would be prudent. Add to the fact that at high speed they require an enormous amount of commitment because there is no more power left to adjust the angle of the car. If your line is wrong or the car slides too much, you crash. I would hate to see the WRC in lower powered vehicles for this reason; the number of crashes would go up. And the more crashes you have, the more likely that someone will be unlucky.
Even in Group N here there have been some nasty ones, and for the same reason.

So what can we expect from the FIA in the wake of this tragedy?

I don't think tyres are the answer, unless they adopt a single manufacturer for the teams. Even that I think is unlikely, because you might then have a situation where the factory teams are forced to run ultra-hard compound tyres while an independent competitor could use this year's Michelin and blow them away. Not ideal for the factory teams.

As I said above, I don't think slowing down the cars through the technical specs is the answer.

I think we will see a reduction in the allowed maximum average speed for a special stage from the current 130km/h down to maybe 110. This is the single easiest way of slowing the cars...make them turn corners. It's hard to have a high-speed impact in Cyprus, for example.
I believe the organisers of the Rally GB were caught out by the good weather this year; many people were commenting that the roads were as fast as Finland. And with logs and trees so close to the road, and a changeable surface...

Above all, we want these guys and girls to demonstrate their skill in a car. And part of that skill is coping with tricky, slippery roads; bare metres from disaster. The worst thing we could see in response to this is a rally full of super-specials in cars with barely enough power to spin the wheels. That would mean the end of the sport that Michael Park represented so well.

Once again, my condolences to Michael's family.

Matt

 

[Roo]

Just found these.

 

[Greycap]

That's a plate in place where it belongs.

 

[ExigeEvan]

But won't the tree die now without all the bark? Suppose it's untill something abit more permanent.

 

[Roo]

Marie Park, Michael's wife, issued this press release yesterday:

"Marie, Victoria, William and all of Michael's family wish to thank everybody in the World of Rallying, in Britain, Internationally and in particular Estonia, for their kind words and messages of love and support.

It is impossible to respond personally to everybody, but we really appreciate the genuine kindness at this difficult time.

Michael Park's funeral will be held at 12.00pm on Thursday October 6 at St Bartholomew's Church, Much Marcle, Ledbury, Herefordshire.

Messages of condolence should be sent to joanna.tp@turning-point.com.pl

These will be collated, bound and presented to the family after the funeral."

For those who are interested, Daniel Carlsson will replace Markko in Japan.

 

[dropzone]

 

[den brakke]

http://www.wrcfm.com/Michael_Park_Tribute.wmv

 

[Scaff]

No.

I should point out that I'm not advocating change, merely predicting it. The FIA are renowned for messing around with rules - rarely for the better (either for spectators or safety) - following competitor deaths.

Sorry Famine, but I have to disagree with you in part here.

To say that changes to the FIA regulations are rarely for the better in regard to safety is simply not true and also a slight to the work done by Prof. Sid Watkins.

The work carried out by Sid Watkins over the 25 years he has been the chief medical officer for Formula 1 and head of the FIA safety committe have without any doubt saved the lives and careers of many drivers.

While some of the FIA changes have caused problems within motorsport, the changes brought about by Sid Watkins and his team have always been balanced with a desire to maintain the core essense of motorsport while avoiding making the drivers disposable (as seemed the case in the '50's and '60's).

I can strongly recomend any of the books written by Prof. Watkins, but would suggest starting with 'Life on the Limit'

In related matters, those who have called for a massive change in the regulations that govern the cars, including furthur limits on output, etc.

These are reactions that in my opinion go far beyond what is needed, and far beyond what Michael Park would have wanted. As was reported in 'Autosport' his wife actually wanted, and asked for Rally GB to continue, even after his death was known.

To cripple motorsport following Michael Parks tragic death is almost without a doubt the last thing he would have wanted.

Another way of putting this into context is to look at an other sporting event that took place the same weekend, the Great North Run.

During this event four people tragically lost their lives; it should be remembered that any sport or activity that pushes the limits of the human body and/or mind carry risks. Now while any death should prompt the activity to be reviewed to see if repeats of the events can be avoided, any changes need to be taken in a measured and considered way.

Remember that this is the first death in the WRC since Possum Bourne died in 1999, terriable as any loss of life is, the WRC has come a very long way from the days of group B.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Famine]

Yes - but that's changes to driver impact protection (safety cells, HANS) and procedures. I'm talking about reactionary attempts to slow cars down.

 

[Scaff]

Yes - but that's changes to driver impact protection (safety cells, HANS) and procedures. I'm talking about reactionary attempts to slow cars down.

Nope, sorry the FIA safety committe that Sid Watkins runs advises on ALL aspects of FIA motorsport that have an impact on safety, not just driver impact protection and procedures. Sid Watkins actually refused to run the committe unless it was able to comment on all areas involved in safety.

You are quite right that changes that have been brought in 'through the back door' as techinical regulation changes generally seem to have a very negative effect on the sport as a whole, with little impact on safety.

However, I still believe that to say

The FIA are renowned for messing around with rules - rarely for the better (either for spectators or safety) - following competitor deaths.

is an oversimplification of what happens and does not ring true when you look at the reduction in serious injury and deaths in FIA governed motorsport in the last 20 - 30 years.


Regards

Scaff

 

[VTRacing]

Remember that this is the first death in the WRC since Possum Bourne died in 1999, terriable as any loss of life is, the WRC has come a very long way from the days of group B.

Regards

Scaff

Just to clarify these facts, Possum Bourne died in 2003 at the wheel of a road car while transporting down the hill at "Race to the Sky" at the same time as competitors were completing reconnaissance going up the hill. He had a head-on collision.

The last death during a WRC event was Possum Bourne's co-driver, Roger Freeth, after a high speed roll in 1993.

 

[Scaff]

Just to clarify these facts, Possum Bourne died in 2003 at the wheel of a road car while transporting down the hill at "Race to the Sky" at the same time as competitors were completing reconnaissance going up the hill. He had a head-on collision.

The last death during a WRC event was Possum Bourne's co-driver, Roger Freeth, after a high speed roll in 1993.

My appologies, and you are quite right

Regards

Scaff

 

[ExigeEvan]

Verdict on Death- Accident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4531496.stm

Atleast it hasn't been a drawn out affair.

 

[Roo]

Verdict on Death- Accident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4531496.stm

Atleast it hasn't been a drawn out affair.

👍

Glad they didn't try to pin it on Markko.

Thanks for posting that, Evan.

 

[conrm001]

Markoo would not harm Park anyway and he is a good driver, so how could it be his fault??

 

[Tornado]

They could have tried to pin reckless driving on him though, so the fact that they posted his death as an accident is merely a frivolty to aknowledge that the police understand it wasn't foul-play.

 

[red70mach1]

In rallying there are always hazards in the sport. It make us go on edge to see the cars blast down a narrow gravel road without making a mistake. I've seen horrific accidents like Dale Earnhardt's in the 2001 Daytona 500 and it still makes me feel sick inside.

 

[tigermoth737]

i feel so sorry for markko. he must be shattered. those 2 were like brothers. now we've lost markko (not competing this year), for him he must feel like micheal could'nt be replaced. admittedly rallying is still very dangerous, but the last thing they need is to slow down the cars to make the racing slower and less exciting, that would suck. look how far the safety in rallying has come. look at some of markko's crashes from previous years, remember argentina 2004, and petter solbergs crash last year in germany. crashes like that would've killed you 20 years ago.