Cockpit view - IMHO overated and not so useful...

[Devedander]

Tried hard to like it but I keep going back to the much more useful bumper view.

So I cannot understand all the premium/standard, cockpit/no cockpit, HUD/no HUD discussions.

Let me explain:

"theoretically" your cockpit is your own steering wheel and the chair in your living room (or whatever place you are), and your TV is like the windscreen.
If we agree to this then you do not need to see the cockpit of the car in game as well. This would be like looking inside the cockpit through another cockpit..
Positioning-wise the inside cockpit view would only make sense in theory if you could bring the TV 20 cm from your eyes and your actual steering wheel behind the tv!!! This way you would see the driver's arms without seeing yours.

Yes the dials and the cockpit details and the bell & whistles are nice (and many prefer to see all this stuff), but at the end of the day the driving matters and I bet NO ONE can drive better from the cockpit view when comparing to the bumper view.

Anyone feels like this or am I the only one??

Now flame me as much as you like you cockpit-view lovers!!!

I have heard this explanation a lot but it's just not correct to assume the windscreen should be in relation to your seating position... if so you should be a large (but constantly different) distance from your TV then for bumper cam as the cam should be on the bumper no?

What about roof cam? You should move your chair way up in the air and look down on the TV as the cameras view is tilted down from a high elevation...

In reality there is a disconnect between seat and screen and the true position of the screen is meant to represent your eyeballes in the game.

This is why the cockpit cam is located where the drivers eyes would be.

Think about an FPS... you see your hands and your gun.. does that mean you need to sit so close to the TV that your hands and arms go under it and are behind the TV so that your field of view is appropriate for seeing your hands in the game?

No...

So the fact that you see the cockpit way out in front of you, not where it would really be in comparison to your body if you were sitting in a car is simply how a game has to work... you then reference the TV glass as if it were your eyeballs and work around that adjustment.

 

[JackC8]

Personally I love the cockpit view, especially now that you can turn the HUD off and you actually have to use the car's tachometer for gear shifts. Such a wonderful variety of interiors and instruments.

I don't use it all the time (well, obviously not when I'm driving a standard car), but I prefer it if I'm on a track I'm familiar with.

 

[Gran_Turismo]

Tried hard to like it but I keep going back to the much more useful bumper view.

So I cannot understand all the premium/standard, cockpit/no cockpit, HUD/no HUD discussions.

Let me explain:

"theoretically" your cockpit is your own steering wheel and the chair in your living room (or whatever place you are), and your TV is like the windscreen.
If we agree to this then you do not need to see the cockpit of the car in game as well. This would be like looking inside the cockpit through another cockpit..
Positioning-wise the inside cockpit view would only make sense in theory if you could bring the TV 20 cm from your eyes and your actual steering wheel behind the tv!!! This way you would see the driver's arms without seeing yours.

Yes the dials and the cockpit details and the bell & whistles are nice (and many prefer to see all this stuff), but at the end of the day the driving matters and I bet NO ONE can drive better from the cockpit view when comparing to the bumper view.

Anyone feels like this or am I the only one??

Now flame me as much as you like you cockpit-view lovers!!!

This really isn't GT 5 related as GT 5 isn't the only game with a driver's view point.

The Driver's view is NOT suppose to be useful.

Only a virtual reality set-up will give you the experience you're looking for, unless you drive a real car that is.

 

[eight6er]

Lol, I kind of agree with the OP on this. The only cockpit view i use is the one in lfs, because i can turn off the distracting arms and steering wheel, which are even worse in GT5 when your trying to drift

 

[Afro1]

The bonnet view has better visability and makes you more immersed in the game in my opinion. You can really sense the speed while in the cockpit view everything looks fancy but it's much harder to judge corners and the view seems linear.
I don't know how to explain it really.

 

[TurboProp]

I use it in B-spec sometimes just for a change, it's interesting the different cockpit layouts. The Citroen GT is wild looking and the Trans Cammer looks tough, otherwise a waste of good credit (Trans Cammer that is).

 

[Racer XO]

The PS3 doesn't support multiple monitor output - this is not PD's fault! They can't support something that is not possible with the hardware. Even if the PS3 could output multiple signals, it wouldn't have the rendering power to display three different real-time 3D views.

I am not talking about outputting from 1 ps3 to 3 monitors, I am strictly talking about utilizing 3 PS3's and 3 copies of the game. PD could have given us this option but did not, It's the same way I play Forza on the 360 and not to mention my pc.

 

[Luminis]

I can't see through the A-pillar, the bonnet or the fenders in a real car. I'm not driving cars made from glass so I can easily hit every apex because I can clearly see it 100% of the time. Therefore, I won't do so in GT5.

Granted, the cockpit view isn't perfect, but as long as I have something blocking my vision of the road in real life, I want to have it in the game, too.

I am not talking about outputting from 1 ps3 to 3 monitors, I am strictly talking about utilizing 3 PS3's and 3 copies of the game. PD could have given us this option but did not, It's the same way I play Forza on the 360 and not to mention my pc.

Okay, using three PS3s on three TVs for a three screen setup is a nice idea and all, but really, how many could even use it? Less than 3D I guess... No wonder they didn't bother with it.

 

[TNA996]

I purchased a Fanatec for Forza3 knowing that it was going to be compatible with GT5 when it came out. Used it in Forza with cockpit view exclusively and really liked it. I thought if it's this good in Forza, GT5 with out a doubt will be Awesome! Sadly 2 year old Forza kicks GT5's butt in cockpit view. The shaking and bouncing is absolutely rediculous and unrealistic! It's almost like they used scotch tape to hold a camera in place when getting footage for rendering the cockpit view. Also, I am sure the head shake is why the epilepsy and seizure warning was put in the very beginning of the game. Considering all the work they did to get the interiors spot on, I really think they dropped the ball with the drivers view and how it is represented.

 

[helseth]

Once getting used to the cockpit everything else feels weird for me. Roof cam is just silly, behind the car i like watching a radiocar from a straped on camera, Bumper cam( which is infact about the same height as cockpit) doesn't give me the satisfaction of driving a car, but more of a riding a broomstick at high speed feeling.

If they only could make arms and wheel optional, as I like to adjust my screen so that the dashboard is partially hidden behind my wheel like it is in a real car...

 

[novcze]

In Prologue so called "bumper cam" was basically cockpit view without rendering cockpit. And in GT5 it is same.

 

[diegorborges]

Well, I'm the only one that likes the shaking? I found it pretty immersive imho. In the standards I use the roof cam when its good enough, and when i'm cruising or doing ******** I use the exterior view because of the sounds that are louder and nicer.

 

[Afro1]

Well, I'm the only one that likes the shaking? I found it pretty immersive imho. In the standards I use the roof cam when its good enough, and when i'm cruising or doing ******** I use the exterior view because of the sounds that are louder and nicer.

Agreed I like the shaking. Also when you add the vibration with it aswell the game feels much more immersive

 

[helseth]

Well, I'm the only one that likes the shaking? I found it pretty immersive imho. In the standards I use the roof cam when its good enough, and when i'm cruising or doing ******** I use the exterior view because of the sounds that are louder and nicer.

Nope, you're not alone. The shake is quite ok. Get's even better when having mechanical damage set to heavy.

 

[RC45]

Tried hard to like it but I keep going back to the much more useful bumper view.

So I cannot understand all the premium/standard, cockpit/no cockpit, HUD/no HUD discussions.

Let me explain:

"theoretically" your cockpit is your own steering wheel and the chair in your living room (or whatever place you are), and your TV is like the windscreen.
If we agree to this then you do not need to see the cockpit of the car in game as well. This would be like looking inside the cockpit through another cockpit..
Positioning-wise the inside cockpit view would only make sense in theory if you could bring the TV 20 cm from your eyes and your actual steering wheel behind the tv!!! This way you would see the driver's arms without seeing yours.

Yes the dials and the cockpit details and the bell & whistles are nice (and many prefer to see all this stuff), but at the end of the day the driving matters and I bet NO ONE can drive better from the cockpit view when comparing to the bumper view.

Anyone feels like this or am I the only one??

Now flame me as much as you like you cockpit-view lovers!!!

I have to laugh at all the "real hardcore racers" who claim "I use bumpercam to set fast lap times" because as they (and the OP) say "The cockpit view gets in my way and I cant see everything".

Well, I am guessing you are neither a "hardcore racer" nor you have you ever set foot ina real car - street or race version.

The A pillars do get in the way, there are all sorts of obstacles and intrusions, there is poor rearward visibility, there are refective surfaces in the way, you cant really tell where the corners of the car are pther thanby instinct and experience.

In short, driving a car is full of all sorts of obstructions and imperfections that only contribute to the impact on lap times etc.

BTW, how "real' do you think the physics really is if you are driving a car from a view point ahead of the steering axle? Your pivot point, edge perception and total view advantage should disqualify all your times

If all you are after is "fastest laptime" why even bother playing the game - just get a TRON-like game andtry "go quick" - it wouldnt really matter what "car' you where piloting anyway, as the unique nature of the cockpit, the view the blindspots etc is totally lost on you if every car has the exact same perfect 12' above the road surface 3 feet ahead of the front axle view.

You answered your very own quesiton with the statement 'but at the end of the day the driving matters and I bet NO ONE can drive better from the cockpit view when comparing to the bumper view."

Interesting - does this not in fact PROVE that the "fake unreal bumpercam" is a totally unnatural and arbitrary advantage?

I purchased a Fanatec for Forza3 knowing that it was going to be compatible with GT5 when it came out. Used it in Forza with cockpit view exclusively and really liked it. I thought if it's this good in Forza, GT5 with out a doubt will be Awesome! Sadly 2 year old Forza kicks GT5's butt in cockpit view. The shaking and bouncing is absolutely rediculous and unrealistic! It's almost like they used scotch tape to hold a camera in place when getting footage for rendering the cockpit view. Also, I am sure the head shake is why the epilepsy and seizure warning was put in the very beginning of the game. Considering all the work they did to get the interiors spot on, I really think they dropped the ball with the drivers view and how it is represented.

Actually, the "shaking and bouncing" is 100% spot on in the absence of a full simulator chassis.

Whil eyou and others may think that because your eyes and head compensate in "real life' the view is exagerated, if youhave ever been behind the wheel of a 600bhp car that is gaining traction and pulling ahead at a rate of knots youwould understand that while you eyes do compensate for the motion and your head and neck do naturally brace yourselves, the entire experience is still immense and the car pulling one way or the other combined with the G-forces on your arms and your body moving and the whole event the ability to quickly process what is going on, manage the controls and get the "job of controlling the car' done is still a very large challenge requiring concentraiton and effort.

If the view was not shaking and requiring your to hold the wheel and concentrate on the events unfolding (manhanding a ZR1 RM through the Cork Screw) exactly how much of a "real-like challenge" would it be if you could one hand the event while reachign for your milk and cheetohs and glancing at the World Cup on the telly next to you?

High speed driving is NOT a simple or stressfree task.

 

[Kryz11]

For premium cars I use 70% bumper and for some cars hood view, and 30% cockpit view. Cockpit view is so natural and also make me care more for the car. A good example is my first car in GT5 the civic. If it only had hood and bumper views I would not care for the car at all. But in the end I use bumper cam the most because of visibility.

 

[vantage2]

I use it when I'm just driving for fun (in practice mode) or if it's pretty much impossible for me to lose because I'm way overpowered. But if I'm trying to put down the absolute fastest lap time lap after lap then I'll use bumper cam.

It's just fun to see the different car interiors.

 

[Afro1]

@RC45:
errr no. Bumper cam does give you an advantage but there are people who actually prefer the view over cockpit view. Like I said earlier, I prefer Bonnet view. Dosen't mean that I'm just trying to get the best time cause there is no body work in the way.

And yeah, Bluez is pretty much right.
A real cockpit view would be GT5's cockpit view with the Narrow setting.

 

[nerv2112]

in real life at least you can move your head a bit to look around the obstructions in the car.

I don't like the cockpit cam because of the shake and the fact that I cannot see enough of the rear view mirror and zooming out makes it hard to use the dash gauges defeating the purpose of having the dash.

A 'free view' option would solve lots.

 

[helseth]

Bumper cam is better than the alternatives, but no match to cockpit for realism.

LOL. This is in fact a bit like the assisted vs non-assisted discussions I have with some when playing FIFA 11.

Bumper cam because it make my times better = assisted controls because my passing gets better and my shots go at target easier.

I choose cockpit cam because it give me a more satisfying feel for the game. It might also come down to the fact that I've driven a go-kart 2 times in my life, but have driven a real car every day for more than 20 years...

 

[RC45]

@RC45:
errr no. Bumper cam does give you an advantage but there are people who actually prefer the view over cockpit view. Like I said earlier, I prefer Bonnet view. Dosen't mean that I'm just trying to get the best time cause there is no body work in the way.

And yeah, Bluez is pretty much right.
A real cockpit view would be GT5's cockpit view with the Narrow setting.

Well, "prefering' the view means nothing - last time I checked when a driver gets in the car they cant "select the prefered view' - the view is the view you get from the seating psoition. Now in some future of cars with bumper cams and rear view cams and side cams and no windows, that would be an accurate representation, but if you are supposedly driving a 1967 Muira, guess what, the view is partially obstructed and you can't really tell where the corners of the car are and you will be handicapped compared to some other driver who either knows the car better of has a car with a better visbility.

IOW< the "lap time' youput down is only of arbitrary value to the game and in no way shape or form reflective of the "car" and "reality" - which actually defeats the purpose of playing the 'real driving simulator' as you just countered all the complex physics in favour for a view that allows you to drive unrealisticly quickly with that car

The bottomline is if you are that unconcerned about the "entire package" of drivign the car that cockpit view is a hinderence, then you relaly are better of with the NFS Hot Pursuits, DRiFT and SHiFT's of the gaming world

All you bumper cam folks are just wannabe arcade racers I hear they are holding a OutRun marathon at the Paladium this weekend

in real life at least you can move your head a bit to look around the obstructions in the car.

I don't like the cockpit cam because of the shake and the fact that I cannot see enough of the rear view mirror and zooming out makes it hard to use the dash gauges defeating the purpose of having the dash.

A 'free view' option would solve lots.

Once they sort out head tracking you will have that solved.

 

[UK-Gamer]

1. The shaking. I don't care what anyone says, that much visual shaking is just wrong on a game display. In the real world, your brain takes input from several sources and creates the reality you experience. In the case of a moving car, that includes the inner ear and vibrations felt through the moving car chassis. With only the visual cues and no other sensory input to validate it, the brain can become confused...causing vertigo, motion sickness, or headaches, or at the very least an overall unpleasant experience.

The cockpit shake isn't that bad, look at these two... GT5's is much more subtle
rFactor

NFS:Shift

 

[Racer XO]

I can't see through the A-pillar, the bonnet or the fenders in a real car. I'm not driving cars made from glass so I can easily hit every apex because I can clearly see it 100% of the time. Therefore, I won't do so in GT5.



Okay, using three PS3s on three TVs for a three screen setup is a nice idea and all, but really, how many could even use it? Less than 3D I guess... No wonder they didn't bother with it.

But yet it was implemented on the Ps2 with gt4 , the need is there but PD/Sony decided to go the 3d TV route instead

 

[calan_svc]

...Actually, the "shaking and bouncing" is 100% spot on in the absence of a full simulator chassis.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, this is completely wrong. As I said before, without the other sensory inputs feeding the same information to your brain, the experience can be either "fun" or downright painful to the point of inducing siezures, depending on the observer. Either way, it's not realistic.

For GT5's shaking to be realistic and tolerable to everyone, there needs to be ways of conveying those other necessary sensations and tactile feedback. Since that is impossible for most people, there should be an option in the game to turn the visual effects off or on.

Just because you and/or 1000 other people find the visual shaking "immersive", it does not make it realistic without the other sensory inputs.

The cockpit shake isn't that bad, look at these two... GT5's is much more subtle
rFactor

I'm very familiar with rFactor. I've done a lot of modifications for it.

In fact, that's my point...rFactor's cockpit is totally configurable, as GT5's should be.

 

[Puzom]

Always cockpit, just like it

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I used cockpit view a few times prior to last night and didn't really like it, the view was very restricted. But then the new update allowed me to remove all on-screen data; I drove a few laps of Nurburgring in an Audi R8 4.2, using cockpit view and no HUD. With my home cinema set-up this was an immense experience and how I will drive from now on, when using Premium cars at least.

Shame about standard cars though

 

[MK500]

When I'm focused on winning the race; it's all about the bumper cam. But sometimes I really enjoy turning on the cockpit view. It really does make you feel like you are driving that car. I remember going for rides or driving friends exotics, and a lot of time was spent just checking out all the crazy things they do with gauges and computerized dashboards these days. Some interiors are really like an art form. From the stitching of the leather to the shape of the panels and design of the gauges and controls.

Anyway, I agree that I'll never be as good of a driver with the cockpit view; and it does kind of feel like a duplicate of my actual cockpit. But I also would be very unhappy if it didn't exist in the game. It's a really nice feature from the "experience the car" side.

 

[Jacob6875]

Ya I am not a big fan of GT5's cockpit view. When its on wide view its like you are driving from the back seats and when you zoom in it zooms in to far and for most cars you can't see the dials.

Not to mention almost every car has the steering wheel on the right side instead of the left. (i know its "realistic" but it is annoying and hard to drive sitting on the wrong side of the car, from where I am used to driving in RL)

 

[Rocket Punch]

I'm very familiar with rFactor. I've done a lot of modifications for it.

In fact, that's my point...rFactor's cockpit is totally configurable, as GT5's should be.

Also the amount of head shake and FOV is adjustable.

I guess for a game like GT5 that won't even allow us to adjust tire pressure, short comings like those are expected......

You excited about RF2?

 

[Tenacious D]

I tried cockpit cam, it's still wrong. It's too low and too far back, as if you're doing every car Lambo style. The horizon should be up near the rearview mirror, meaning so should the camera, and should be more forward so you can JUST see the gauges. Forza is worse, and most of the interiors are ugly.

I'm surprised though how many don't like the shaking. I found that to be pretty darn right. In any case, roof cam for me all the way. The view of the road is what I need, and I get some peripheral view of the sides of the car, which makes up for the lack of the real life corner of the eye glimpse lobbed off by the camera. I found roof view very easy to get used to and now I can't drive without it. Sometimes I do use chase cam, often when rallying or when I'm just not getting a racing line for some reason. Or in the NASCAR races because the bots are all Dale Earnhardts. But any other time, I'm lying on the roof.

At some point, there does need to be a patch feature that lets us place, aim and fix or float the camera as we want.