Complaints

[Divinus]

Hi,´

I think i needed to do this. My objective is to have a nice discussion about some PD in game policies.

So:


1. Many people complaint about too easy events. In the new seasonal PD already suggested hp limit. If that not suits you please try another car or change the tires and see if you have some fun with that setup. Just please dont start complaint all over the forum. You are able to decide the difficulty for each event just by choosing the car you will participate.
Suggestions: Having diferent rewards is for example a nice critic.

2. Many people complaint about this: "you have to grind in order to have cars in order to get some fun - > and thats a terrible thing"
Well here is what i think: As i've said on other thread you need to understand economics to understand this.

Scarcity is the fundamental economic problem of having seemingly unlimited human needs and wants, in a world of limited resources. It states that society has insufficient productive resources to fulfill all human wants and needs. Alternatively, scarcity implies that not all of society's goals can be pursued at the same time; trade-offs are made of one good against others

GT5 is a REAL driving simulator and more than that -> a real life managing game. Like in real life if you want many cars you have to make big efforts (and thus grinding). It's good that the game doesn´t gives you acess to all cars the easy way.
For example if i want to have a Lambo in real life i would have to "grind" my job.
And i know "but a game is suposed to be fun and grinding is not" argument. Well if you want a real simulator, GT5 fullfill this and that includes money management. You have arcade mode and other games if you dont like to earn things.
Besides you could share and trade cars and that means you could have fun with all of them without need of grinding.
And you have glitches that allow you to have cars without grinding.
So Why complaint about grinding? It's how life works. And believe me: you will have more fun if you just make an effort to get the cars.
So when PD stops the big bonus Seasonal Events they did good.
What the point of achieving money if everyone could have a 20Kcr car?
Dont tell me that you spent money for a game and expected that the game came completed and that you have acess to everything easily.

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND PEOPLE.


PS. If the discussion starts to be unclean please close the thread. I just want to have a clean discussion without insults and other things.

 

[Boycey83]

yeah man, it's almost as if people play games to escape the drudgery of the real life grind. what's the deal with that?

 

[jimbogl]

But gt5 is the real DRIVING simulator? not the real ECONOMICS simulator .?

 

[Divinus]

But gt5 is the real DRIVING simulator? not the real ECONOMICS simulator .?

So i guess you will be happy if there is only arcade mode with all cars and tracks?

 

[Vagabond]

I agree with you in general.

So Why complaint about grinding?

Specifically because there is a pitifully small number of A-Spec events to choose from, particularly in comparison to GT4, and repeating the same events over and over, which are on the whole not challenging enough either, is tedious. That makes it feel like grinding rather than productively working your way towards just rewards.

This -

So i guess you will be happy if there is only arcade mode with all cars and tracks?

- is not necessary or welcome at this point.

 

[iHealy]

Theres someoneone else in this forum who agrees with me last night everyone moaned about being no seasonal events and there better be some today ... now there is and there 12 instead of 5 to stop people moaning about the lack of seasonals ... if you get millions for all 12 of those races theres no point in having a-spec because no one would play it 👍 great paragraph by the way couldnt have put it better myself

 

[Divinus]

I agree with you in general.



Specifically because there is a pitifully small number of A-Spec events to choose from, particularly in comparison to GT4, and repeating the same events over and over, which are on the whole not challenging enough either, is tedious. That makes it feel like grinding rather than productively working your way towards just rewards.

You have a point when you say that there aren't much A-spec events. They are trying to fix that with seasonals (Im not defendind PD, i think they need to work hard to get the game right).
I don´t agree when you see they are not challenging - you have a lot of low powered cars in the game - just give it a try
I really like your last sentence. I think i could agree with you. But as far as i have seen people dont think like that - they see "the grinding" as the only way to have fun and that it should be easier to achieve all cars.

Maybe if a spec was against other players and not against ai it would solve a lot of problems....(with restrictions offcourse)

 

[snowgt]

Well put, Divinus!

I'm currently trying to get all the cars in the game, and my current task is to get all the non-race cars together, which, with the tactics I currently employ, forces me to earn about 200.000 cr per race day. (otherwise I will be missing cars in the UCD cycle)

So, believe me when I say, if anyone, I would have a reason to complain about the lack of weekly credit-boost my quest receives now. But, quite to the contrary, I completely agree with your statement, that it should be hard to get a lot of credits. Preferably with a lot of different events, yes. But isn't that EXACTLY what PD has done with the new Seasonals? You get MORE different events with MORE different possibilities of car choice and can eventually earn MORE money, because you get the money for each race you run, not only once.

And even for me, it's also good, because only 1 game day passes when I re-run the Seasonals to get to my 200.000 credits I need per game-day.

 

[daan]

But gt5 is the real DRIVING simulator? not the real ECONOMICS simulator .?

Well go and drive then. The money will come as a result.

---

People complain that there wasn't enough A spec events. Now they have more in that the seasonal events are just an extension of Aspec, they still find thigs to complain and moan about.

People complained that you could only get rewards from the seasonal events once. Now you can do them many times, people complain that the rewards are too low.

People complained that the seasonal events were too hard. Now they complain they're too easy.

People complained that they had nowhere to drive the Ferrari F2007/F10. Now that there is a race for them, others complain that they can't afford them.

 

[iHealy]

Daan ... a small number of us agree with you and get on with what weve got but people are still going to be picky and find something wrong ... We're fighting a losing battle

 

[Track_Veteran]

I think some people just need to ask themselves if owning every car in the game and reaching level 40 Aspec/Bspec means that they are done with the game.

If yes, perhaps they are playing the wrong game.

If no, then have some patience and realize that you might be playing this driving game backwards.

 

[snowgt]

I think some people just need to ask themselves if owning every car in the game and reaching level 40 Aspec/Bspec means that they are done with the game.

If yes, perhaps they are playing the wrong game.

If no, then have some patience and realize that you might be playing this driving game backwards.

I do want every car in the game, but that's where GT5 STARTS for me.

I'm having loads of fun though gathering them together. It takes planning to do this, and that makes it so much more worthwhile than just getting the credits for doing next to nothing and practically being handed everything on a silver platter.

 

[Vagabond]

I don´t agree when you see they are not challenging - you have a lot of low powered cars in the game - just give it a try

Oh I'm an old hand at that - racing in underpowered cars and trying to outdrive them is fun, yes... but that still doesn't give me any events in which I can use any of my more powerful cars, particularly if they are tuned (for example, I shouldn't have to race my tuned DB9 against LMP and SGT cars!) and my LMP cars are almost totally redundant in A-Spec.

But as far as i have seen people dont think like that - they see "the grinding" as the only way to have fun and that it should be easier to achieve all cars.

Well there's someone waiting to moan about every scenario I'm sure I think the problem there is a base human reaction to being given a target - most will attempt to reach that target as soon as is (humanly) possible, usually at the detriment of actual enjoyment. For this reason, I think the XP system is a "fail" of sorts since many folk simply lack the patience to not immediately "aim high". GT4, without the XP system, "allowed" you to plod along, choosing your events and cars regardless of achievement, other than to save for your next car. GT5 has exposed the human condition I will lovingly refer to as "Now Now Now".

 

[Luminis]

GT5 is a REAL driving simulator and more than that -> a real life managing game.

So, uh... Does your copy of the game make you pay for the fuel? For the tyres? Taxes maybe? Or insurance? Do you have to pay a rent for that huge garage you need to store your cars? Do you have to pay a mechanic to get the visual damage fixed after a race? Do you have to repaint your car to get rid of scratches from making contact to other cars during the race? How about selling the more expensive cars you have?

Damn, my copy sure is limited

 

[Divinus]

snowgt 👍

iHealy - Dont give up man 👍

TrackVeteran - Understand your point but you are forgetting the people who like collecting could enjoy this game too like snowgt said below. I am a collector and a driving fan so i understand you both. Both ways are legit

daan 👍

VagabonAngel - Completely with you on the first paragraph. Love your second.

Luminis - I'm sure tha you understand my point in the first post. Its just a simulator - it tends to closer to reality with time. You suggested some cool features that i think they will add in the future to get the game more realistic. When i say that GT5 is a managing game its because you have to plan your investments, save money and this sort of things. There is no need to be ironic.

 

[gambleboyen]

Well go and drive then. The money will come as a result.

---

People complain that there wasn't enough A spec events. Now they have more in that the seasonal events are just an extension of Aspec, they still find thigs to complain and moan about.

People complained that you could only get rewards from the seasonal events once. Now you can do them many times, people complain that the rewards are too low.

People complained that the seasonal events were too hard. Now they complain they're too easy.

People complained that they had nowhere to drive the Ferrari F2007/F10. Now that there is a race for them, others complain that they can't afford them.

Well, when you have a member base of thousands, there will always be tens and hundreds of vocal people in each end of the spectrum moaning about different things. But you also have thousands that get on with it and play.

When you can identify users that moan about both ends of a problem (i.e. first about events being too hard, and later events being too easy), then you have a right to crack down on moaning for moaning's sake.

 

[Luminis]

Luminis - I'm sure tha you understand my point in the first post. Its just a simulator - it tends to closer to reality with time. You suggested some cool features that i think they will add in the future to get the game more realistic. When i say that GT5 is a managing game its because you have to plan your investments, save money and this sort of things. There is no need to be ironic.

Well, I'd be fine with it, actually, if PD made you be more careful with spending of your credits.
Problem is, if they actually want to do that, they'd need a more realistic system to calculate how much credits you'd be earning...

Which would probably mean you'd have to run a load of sponsor stickers or even a full livery on most of your cars to get a decent income - which would probably put a lot of people off.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like GT5 tries to replicate any real economy or anything. It does its own thing... Whether that's for the betetr or the worse is for everyone else to decide, in my opinion...

Either way, I, personally, don't mind the lower payout that much, but that's more due to my financial situation ingame than the amount of credits awarded

 

[Dave_Panic]

@Divinus
I don't mean any offence by this but, I don't think anyone has the right to tell people what they can and can't complain about. Forums like this are here to let people discuss the game and that includes voicing their opinions, whether you agree or not.

 

[pay2021]

...You are able to decide the difficulty for each event just by choosing the car you will participate.
Suggestions: Having diferent rewards is for example a nice critic...

This, "other" games reward you like that, for ex. if you race with a stock civic against a sgt grid get more cr. instead race with a sgt.

...Which would probably mean you'd have to run a load of sponsor stickers or even a full livery on most of your cars to get a decent income - which would probably put a lot of people off...

And this, i remember "other" game that allow you to sign with a sponsor (without put stickers on the car) and that sponsor just give you extra cr. for each race.

That 2 things come to my mind reading this, instead a complain, a good option to hypothetically implement.

 

[huskeR32]

@Dave_Panic
I don't think he said nobody has the right to complain. And he was just voicing HIS opinion, the same thing you just said everybody needs to be able to do. His opinion is that people complain too much, and he made a reasonable attempt to support that opinion.

@Divinus
Right on. SE7 is a nice extension of A-Spec: similar payouts and xp rewards, ability to use different cars and the option to re-race as many times as you want. Sounds to me like exactly what everybody's been begging for!

 

[drivingmeinsane]

There are legitimate gripes with not only the latest round of SE's but with GT5 in general which everybody has mentioned time and time again but very few people have actually addressed head on. Instead those of us who do have a bone to pick with Kaz and PD are told things like "play online" or "stop moaning" or "blah blah blah", What all of those people fail to realise is that MANY of us bought the game to play the game and what we got was less than half the game that GT4 was as far as tracks and events are concerned.

VagabondAngel sums it up very nicely when s/he said:

I agree with you in general.

Specifically because there is a pitifully small number of A-Spec events to choose from, particularly in comparison to GT4, and repeating the same events over and over, which are on the whole not challenging enough either, is tedious. That makes it feel like grinding rather than productively working your way towards just rewards.

SE for me have gone along way to addressing the overall problem of lack of events, and the extra boost in cr/xp was also very nice since i play GT5 for the events and the rewards those events offer and couldn't careless about the online side of the game. I play my bro online once a week or so. I have absolutely no wish to fill up my PSN account and GT5 community bar with "friends" or people from all over the world just so i can get message after message of who has signed in or out or useless other messages from people i don't even know. So for me, online is not welcome at all.

This game is HEAVILY biased towards the online gamer and that needs to change!

 

[amar212]

People complain that there wasn't enough A spec events. Now they have more in that the seasonal events are just an extension of Aspec, they still find thigs to complain and moan about.

People complained that you could only get rewards from the seasonal events once. Now you can do them many times, people complain that the rewards are too low.

People complained that the seasonal events were too hard. Now they complain they're too easy.

People complained that they had nowhere to drive the Ferrari F2007/F10. Now that there is a race for them, others complain that they can't afford them.

I agree 100%.

As I said in another thread earlier today:

We got:

- more races,
- more choice
- variety of cars
- ability to repeat the races
- very fair amount of XP in those races

We didn't get:
- proper restrictions (suggestions) - so nothing here for more demanding players

We lost:
- huge, insane and crazy credits payout

So, basically, all whine comes solely from the fact that people are pissed of because their easy-money is gone.

Jebon also made a nice breakdown here:

Pre-Seasonal Events = People complaints - Not enough events
1-3rd Seasonal Events = People complaints - Too hard to some people -
4th-6th Seasonal Events = People complaints - Too easy - Noob can level-up faster
7th Seasonal Events = People complaints - Not much rewards.

With ONE run through all 12 seasonal races you can earn approx. 570.000 credits and approx. 90000XP. Step up and repeat, use a different cars, have fun with the formulas and you're making serious Cr/XP on daily basis.

It looks like everything became crazy, with players urging to find the best way to jump straight to Lv40 and buy every damn car in this game.

I played GT4 for 4 years, I still have just 3 LMP1 cars because I needed ages to earn 4,5 million for them. I have no more than 300 cars in my garage and I have no damn problem with that.

But obviously when Trophies came into picture, face of gaming changed forever.

I wish Kazunori stood by his ground and managed to deny implementation of Trophies at GT5 in the first place. Everything would be so much better.

 

[huskeR32]

Oh I'm an old hand at that - racing in underpowered cars and trying to outdrive them is fun, yes... but that still doesn't give me any events in which I can use any of my more powerful cars, particularly if they are tuned (for example, I shouldn't have to race my tuned DB9 against LMP and SGT cars!) and my LMP cars are almost totally redundant in A-Spec.

This is my only complaint about GT5. I should be able to take a JGTC (or DTM, or ALMS, or whatever) car and race against OTHER JGTC CARS that will actually give me a race. Preferably, these events would be hard enough to force me to tune suspension/transmission to squeeze every last drop of speed from my car in order to win. Yes, it can be fun to take david and beat goliath, but sometimes I want to race Goliath vs. Goliath and have some epic battles!

 

[huskeR32]

@amar212 👍

 

[speedracer_-44]

In life you will encounter people with differing opinions than that of your own. I know this is a shock at first read but it really is ok and in no way affects you day to day life unless you let it.

 

[drivingmeinsane]

We lost:
- huge, insane and crazy credits payout

So, basically, all whine comes solely from the fact that people are pissed of because their easy-money is gone.

Jebon also made a nice breakdown here:

I don't think you guys who keep saying "people are pissed of because their easy-money is gone." are actually paying attention at all as to why some of us are moaning regarding the new payout.

The "moaning" isn't about "easy" money, its the fact we have to go back to "grinding" indy 40 to 50 times (or whatever) which is boring as hell.

I like to repeat races as much as the next guy, but come on, be serious! how many times can a guy grind indy or dream car just to get the cash to buy that super expensive car or unlock the next race 👎


You lot need to be more understanding and less quick to assume its all about greed and nothing but greed.

 

[R34EVO9]

Gt5 is in a recession man. Give it some time and the economy will surely pick back up.

Then we will all be able to just buy f10 like its our job.

 

[amar212]

The "moaning" isn't about "easy" money, its the fact we have to go back to "grinding" indy 40 to 50 times (or whatever) which is boring as hell.

Look, with new SE structure we'll be probably getting new races like this every week.

Problem "you" have is that you want everything to happen in this game in few months.

I don't know why is that, but as I said, GT4 was the game it took me 4 years to actually complete to 100%.

You have my word that if you invest many months in playing GT4, you will reach your goal.

Earning 4,5 millions in GT4 to buy yourself an LMP1 racecar was a hard grinding. It seems like many forgot that.

But than again, as Speedracer said:

In life you will encounter people with differing opinions than that of your own. I know this is a shock at first read but it really is ok and in no way affects you day to day life unless you let it.

Whatever then, I guess I should stop playing Devils Advocate.

 

[R34EVO9]

It looks like everything became crazy, with players urging to find the best way to jump straight to Lv40 and buy every damn car in this game.

I played GT4 for 4 years, I still have just 3 LMP1 cars because I needed ages to earn 4,5 million for them. I have no more than 300 cars in my garage and I have no damn problem with that.

But obviously when Trophies came into picture, face of gaming changed forever.

I wish Kazunori stood by his ground and managed to deny implementation of Trophies at GT5 in the first place. Everything would be so much better.[/QUOTE]

Wanna explain this how u only had 3 lmp1 cars in gt4 when you could've easily had more??

Not a good argument amar but i agree with everything else

 

[drivingmeinsane]

Gt5 is in a recession man. Give it some time and the economy will surely pick back up.

Well in that case, Maybe Kaz and PD need to apply for some hard earned tax payer bail-out cash the BoE and Fed like to throw around...


Hell, the public wouldn't even know they got it That way their REP will be kept intact!

See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWv9STNNw9c