Complaints

[nik99]

In a 1982 study, Stanford psychologist Mark L. Lepper showed that any task, no matter how enjoyable it once seemed, would be devalued if it were presented as a means rather than an end. He told a group of preschoolers they could not engage in one activity they liked until they first took part in another. Although they had enjoyed both activities equally, the children came to dislike the task that was a prerequisite for the other.

- someguy on the internets

The theory goes that if on Fridays at noon, you got Free Pizza and the afternoon off! But... first , you have to finish your Free Beer! Eventually people would eventually see drinking the free beer (task) as un-enjoyable.

Everyone will have their own personal goal or reward from the game - "driving my car on my TV" or "collecting all the cool cars" or "driving the car I wish I could have on my TV - really fast" or simply "finishing all the events". (getting to maximum level?)

If your reward is 'driving', the your task is 'waiting for the darn track to load'. (Good for you - you win!)

If your reward is 'finishing game', your task is 'driving', and waiting for the track to load is eventually going to push you over the top and eventually you end up postin a 'I hate this game!" thread somewhere on the internets. (a cry out for help or just letting people know that a free copy of GT5 just went sailing out your window?)

When people are expressing frustration with the game, maybe starting a flame war isn't the best answer.

On the other hand, it can be frustrating reading all the negative comments about a game that is really, quite awesome.

I wish there was a way of getting people back to the 'drive' reward state of mind they had when they first bought the game and took it home and waited for 55 minutes for the thing to install, bought a car and some tires and went out to the Sunday Cup...

 

[amar212]

Wanna explain this how u only had 3 lmp1 cars in gt4 when you could've easily had more??

Because I was spending all money earned from two easy-money glitched races (both Costa di Amalfi and DTM Championship) to buy some other cars - which I needed for LAN parties with my friends.

BUt I never had a need to grind, grind and grind those 5 races forver in order to buy all cars.

However, we're all different I guess. And everything points out to my conclusion that majority of people that complain just want easy-money and fast way to Platinum.

 

[daan]

The "moaning" isn't about "easy" money, its the fact we have to go back to "grinding" indy 40 to 50 times (or whatever) which is boring as hell.

I'm at level 31 (I think. The one just below the level for the Nurburgring 4 hours) and haven't had to grind at all yet. I may have done the odd race a few times, but that was going back through them with different cars.

Admittedly, I do have the stealth cars which has a helped a bit, but I haven't really used them all that much.

 

[huskeR32]

Well in that case, Maybe Kaz and PD need to apply for some hard earned tax payer bail-out cash the BoE and Fed like to throw around...


Hell, the public wouldn't even know they got it That way their REP will be kept intact!

See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWv9STNNw9c

Great, now when I log into a racing video game website, I get political commentary.

 

[drivingmeinsane]

I'm at level 31 (I think. The one just below the level for the Nurburgring 4 hours) and haven't had to grind at all yet. I may have done the odd race a few times, but that was going back through them with different cars.

Admittedly, I do have the stealth cars which has a helped a bit, but I haven't really used them all that much.

I hear you, trouble is not everyone plays the game the same way. so i cant really compare my accomplishments (or lack of) with yours.
If this was a game that wasn't open ended then we can compare, but GT5 is open ended to a certain degree.
You have bought cars and upgrades that i haven't and vice versa.


I think i'm on either level 29 0r 30 (cant remember which) and have no intention of grinding the hell out of the same 2 or 3 races just so i can get 100% game completion, GT4 grind in that respect stands head and shoulders above GT5.

 

[drivingmeinsane]

Great, now when I log into a racing video game website, I get political commentary.

Hey, don't look at me!

Blame R34EVO9

 

[R34EVO9]

Because I was spending all money earned from two easy-money glitched races (both Costa di Amalfi and DTM Championship) to buy some other cars - which I needed for LAN parties with my friends.

BUt I never had a need to grind, grind and grind those 5 races forver in order to buy all cars.

However, we're all different I guess. And everything points out to my conclusion that majority of people that complain just want easy-money and fast way to Platinum.

Ok thats a pretty legit answer cause I was about to say how did you not do those two races like 10 times to get like 10 million credits.. And so thats what the big gripe is about now everyones trying to get platinum trophy...

Well heres my reason why i complain about money. I feel like gt5 is still in game and in a game i shouldn't have to work sooo hard to get what i want because i already went to work and work hard to pay for it.

So somethings should be a lil easier ( more a spec events with better payout and xp)

And they still wouldn't get platinum because not too many people have time to do both 24 hour races unless there is a way around that

 

[R34EVO9]

Hey, don't look at me!

Blame R34EVO9

lol that was a joke when i posted it

 

[R34EVO9]

Well in that case, Maybe Kaz and PD need to apply for some hard earned tax payer bail-out cash the BoE and Fed like to throw around...


Hell, the public wouldn't even know they got it That way their REP will be kept intact!

See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWv9STNNw9c

Lol pd needs to go get some funds from forza 3/4 and shift 2 to help boost gt5's economy

 

[huskeR32]

Hey, don't look at me!

Blame R34EVO9

R34EVO9 was making a joke, trying to lighten the mood a little. Saying that a video game economy is facing a recession is obviously facetious. You didn't need to take that and turn it into actual political conversation with that YouTube link. No hard feelings, just sayin' I didn't expect to see it in this particular part of the forum.

But I suppose an argument about the FED makes more sense to me that endlessly complaining about the game

 

[drivingmeinsane]

R34EVO9 was making a joke, trying to lighten the mood a little. Saying that a video game economy is facing a recession is obviously facetious. You didn't need to take that and turn it into actual political conversation with that YouTube link. No hard feelings, just sayin' I didn't expect to see it in this particular part of the forum.

But I suppose an argument about the FED makes more sense to me that endlessly complaining about the game

I know that i was going along with it...


Sheesh!

 

[carlosy]

I wish there was a way of getting people back to the 'drive' reward state of mind they had when they first bought the game and took it home and waited for 55 minutes for the thing to install, bought a car and some tires and went out to the Sunday Cup...

Well, there is a difference between driving and racing!
If GT5 would have a free roam area like TDU (I know TDU2 is horrible in the physics etc.), driving could be a very rewarding thing imho.

 

[drivingmeinsane]

Lol pd needs to go get some funds from forza 3/4 and shift 2 to help boost gt5's economy

I bloody well hope not otherwise GT 6 will be in serious trouble

 

[DocDock]

Like somebody else said if the game had more A Spec races there wouldn't be a need to grind races repeatedly to gain XP and credits. The problem i have with the new seasonals is they've gone too far the other way. It's all good and well having more races but when the total payout for both XP and Credits is lower than the previous seasonals how does that benefit the player? All it means is you have to grind the seasonals or races such as Indy on Dream Car Championship. It doesn't address the problem of grinding.

For a game that took 6 years to develop and release i expect a little bit more polish, to be fair.

 

[huskeR32]

I know that i was going along with it...


Sheesh!

I guess the jump from GT5 to an actual video about Bernacke didn't seem to be a joke to me. Maybe I just don't get that Brit humor

 

[VTiRoj]

Excluding the prize money and experience since that's been covered 9001 times already, my main complaint is that these events just feel like I'm running the FF, FR and 4WD races again, which I've already done in the main A-Spec game. The Ferrari F1 events are nice though, no complaints about those. Just need to find a Ferrari F1.

If they replaced FF, FR and 4WD with something like "Honda FF", "Italian RWD" and "Rally Cars", I think this new structure would be much more fun. 👍

 

[drivingmeinsane]

I guess the jump from GT5 to an actual video about Bernacke didn't seem to be a joke to me. Maybe I just don't get that Brit humor

Don't worry, the governor at the BoE told the same thing to our parliament


But seriously, the reasoning behind the "brit humour" was that Japanese are VERY protective of their honour, i was just proving that Kaz can get some of the bail-out (if cash really is the cause behind all these GT5 problems ) cash without losing face because nobody at the fed or the BoE will fess up 💡

 

[huskeR32]

Like somebody else said if the game had more A Spec races there wouldn't be a need to grind races repeatedly to gain XP and credits. The problem i have with the new seasonals is they've gone too far the other way. It's all good and well having more races but when the total payout for both XP and Credits is lower than the previous seasonals how does that benefit the player? All it means is you have to grind the seasonals or races such as Indy on Dream Car Championship. It doesn't address the problem of grinding.

For a game that took 6 years to develop and release i expect a little bit more polish, to be fair.

But having 12 new races every week or two means you have different options to grind, making it, in fact, a little less of a grind. Perfect? No. But a definite improvement.

I think that's what is bothering me so much about all the complaining. Everybody is so convinced that GT5 must mirror their own wishes perfectly, that we are failing to see that improvements are being made!

 

[drivingmeinsane]

But having 12 new races every week or two means you have different options to grind, making it, in fact, a little less of a grind. Perfect? No. But a definite improvement.

We all grind for 1 of 2 reasons, more cash for that "special" car or XP to unlock the next event, how many of these SE's will i have to either wait for every week because i dont like racing the same race twice, or grind the hell out of to get from level 29 to 40 with the current rewards?


This grind makes me feel like an oarsman chained to a ship after having been press-ganged

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Excluding the prize money and experience since that's been covered 9001 times already, my main complaint is that these events just feel like I'm running the FF, FR and 4WD races again, which I've already done in the main A-Spec game. The Ferrari F1 events are nice though, no complaints about those. Just need to find a Ferrari F1.

If they replaced FF, FR and 4WD with something like "Honda FF", "Italian RWD" and "Rally Cars", I think this new structure would be much more fun. 👍

Agreed. There are 1000+ cars in the game. I hope PD can make more interesting and creative races in the future. Maybe even implement some manufacturerer races.

 

[Olegonic]

Tis is actually not a complaint, only dreams about PERFECT Gran Turismo 5 A-Spec:
1. Every race the specified car or sort of.
2. Tires, power, weight limits
3. Beyond the limits "2" - less credits for winning
4. Racing line OFF - Bonus credits
5. TCS, ABS, ASM Off - Bonus credits.
6. Kockpit camera - Bonus credit.
7. Race finished without contact ("clean race") - Bonus credit
8. Race ivent history, hall of fame
9. Restart the race, Less credits

 

[huskeR32]

Tis is actually not a complaint, only dreams about PERFECT Gran Turismo 5 A-Spec:
1. Every race the specified car or sort of.
2. Tires, power, weight limits
3. Beyond the limits "2" - less credits for winning
4. Racing line OFF - Bonus credits
5. TCS, ABS, ASM Off - Bonus credits.
6. Kockpit camera - Bonus credit.
7. Race finished without contact ("clean race") - Bonus credit
8. Race ivent history, hall of fame
9. Restart the race, Less credits

Sounds a lot like Forza, so if that's what you want, go play that. Not trying to be an a**, just saying it sounds a lot like Forza would make you happier.

 

[DocDock]

But having 12 new races every week or two means you have different options to grind, making it, in fact, a little less of a grind. Perfect? No. But a definite improvement.

I think that's what is bothering me so much about all the complaining. Everybody is so convinced that GT5 must mirror their own wishes perfectly, that we are failing to see that improvements are being made!

Why should i have to grind the same races over and over again? Apart from it being tedious, it just seems lazy by the developers. You are telling me that they couldn't have created more offline races in A Spec to address this problem? I see your point about their being more races in the seasonals, but it still doesn't address the problem of grinding.

 

[huskeR32]

Why should i have to grind the same races over and over again? Apart from it being tedious, it just seems lazy by the developers. You are telling me that they couldn't have created more offline races in A Spec to address this problem? I see your point about their being more races in the seasonals, but it still doesn't address the problem of grinding.

These ARE more A-Spec events. The fact that they're online doesn't change that. Again, I know its not perfect. But isn't it better to grind a set of races for a week or two, and then get another set to grind as opposed to grinding the same races for months at a time? We've all been asking for PD to improve some things, and with this, they have. Let's enjoy it and hope that they continue to make improvements 👍

 

[Dave_Panic]

@Dave_Panic
I don't think he said nobody has the right to complain. And he was just voicing HIS opinion, the same thing you just said everybody needs to be able to do. His opinion is that people complain too much, and he made a reasonable attempt to support that opinion.

Well not in those words exactly but there was a plea to people to stop complaining followed by why he's happy with the game. Which is fair enough, but not everyone shares that opinion.

I should've pre-empted the whole complaining about complaining about complaining thing but I thought that was too obvious.

 

[sesselpupser]

Hi,´

I think i needed to do this. My objective is to have a nice discussion about some PD in game policies.

So:


1. Many people complaint about too easy events. In the new seasonal PD already suggested hp limit. If that not suits you please try another car or change the tires and see if you have some fun with that setup. Just please dont start complaint all over the forum. You are able to decide the difficulty for each event just by choosing the car you will participate.
Suggestions: Having diferent rewards is for example a nice critic.

2. Many people complaint about this: "you have to grind in order to have cars in order to get some fun - > and thats a terrible thing"
Well here is what i think: As i've said on other thread you need to understand economics to understand this.

GT5 is a REAL driving simulator and more than that -> a real life managing game. Like in real life if you want many cars you have to make big efforts (and thus grinding). It's good that the game doesn´t gives you acess to all cars the easy way.
For example if i want to have a Lambo in real life i would have to "grind" my job.
And i know "but a game is suposed to be fun and grinding is not" argument. Well if you want a real simulator, GT5 fullfill this and that includes money management. You have arcade mode and other games if you dont like to earn things.
Besides you could share and trade cars and that means you could have fun with all of them without need of grinding.
And you have glitches that allow you to have cars without grinding.
So Why complaint about grinding? It's how life works. And believe me: you will have more fun if you just make an effort to get the cars.
So when PD stops the big bonus Seasonal Events they did good.
What the point of achieving money if everyone could have a 20Kcr car?
Dont tell me that you spent money for a game and expected that the game came completed and that you have acess to everything easily.

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND PEOPLE.


PS. If the discussion starts to be unclean please close the thread. I just want to have a clean discussion without insults and other things.

I think the problem a lot of people has is that the one event that has the highest credits per minute payout is hugely boring, but is so far ahead of every other event in terms of that ratio that anyone who wants to make money quickly only has one choice. If they balanced the reward of that event (either by lowering it or raising others appropriately) then I'd be much, much happier, but as it is it makes no sense that the Dream Car Championship's individual races pay out less, but are longer... I think the new type of seasonals are a good move, but I think to be truly amazing they should combine the new type with the first type (restricted, with a huge reward) and forget that the second type (free money) ever existed, so you have the harder races that pay out huge amounts alongside repeatable ones that don't pay out as much which encourage people to use cars they may not have thought of using before.

People complained that they had nowhere to drive the Ferrari F2007/F10. Now that there is a race for them, others complain that they can't afford them.

I swear this community is never satisfied with anything, and I will admit I've had a bit of a love-hate relationship with it which has resulted in me taking a few extended breaks from it in the past, but I think they have a point with the F1 cars. They cost 10 or 12.5 million, which is fair enough, but the reward is so tiny that you'd have to be mad to grind just to buy an F1 car just to do that one event for two weeks. Add to that the fact that it would take a lot of people the entirety of that two weeks to save up the money for one, you do have to wonder what's the point?

The simplest thing to do, though, would be to make the seasonals permanent instead. As it is, people who don't have an F1 car have less than two weeks to grind for one (ignoring any decent cars that may come up in the UCD in the process) and then whatever time is left between now and the 24th to repeat the races... I don't think they'll get close to earning 10 million back that way. Now if they knew the race wasn't going to expire, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I think some people just need to ask themselves if owning every car in the game and reaching level 40 Aspec/Bspec means that they are done with the game.

If yes, perhaps they are playing the wrong game.

If no, then have some patience and realize that you might be playing this driving game backwards.

I think some people need to take a step back and realize that not everyone wants to play CaRPG. I want every race car in the game. This is going to require hours upon hours upon hours of grinding to achieve this "goal". And no, I don't want them so I can take pictures of them, or feel like I'm done with the game. I want them so I can drive them all....hopefully on leaderboards that may or may not come at a later date. The problem is, some moron at PD thinks that I should be thankful to pay 60 dollars for a game, then spend the next year racing the same events over and over again just to fully access all the content. The need to protect their stupid fake "economies" has clearly outweighed what people actually want out of a racing game. Which is again, to be able to race the cars they want to race when they want to race them. Not after months of grinding/WORK.

It's a bad idea to make any game resemble the bad parts about life. Which this game (and Forza is no different) does. In my real life, I spend quite a bit of time each week budgeting out my money, carefully planning how I spend it so I can live comfortably. It's not enjoyable way to spend time, but necessary. Then I get on a racing game to try and enjoy some free time and what do I end up doing? Spending half my time worrying about how much money I have and whether I should spend it or keep saving it.

 

[JeffKill]

I think some people need to take a step back and realize that not everyone wants to play CaRPG. I want every race car in the game. This is going to require hours upon hours upon hours of grinding to achieve this "goal". And no, I don't want them so I can take pictures of them, or feel like I'm done with the game. I want them so I can drive them all....hopefully on leaderboards that may or may not come at a later date.

Agreed. Which is why I will continue to back up my save before buying expensive cars. I might only be able to buy 1 a day, but it's better than repeating the same races over and over to build up the amount of credits you need for the race cars. Im at level 33 A-spec and 24 B-spec. Pretty much done with A-spec cause I don't have time to do the endurance races, but I still do the seasonals just for fun.

 

[grumblecat]

People never think past the minute and wonder about the long term.

I saw a couple things in these seasonals. 1st they appear to be an extension of A-Spec more than others before them have. I can't count how many times I've seen the complaint that there isn't enough A-Spec races. 2nd they offered a first attempt at saying here is how many HP you will be running into maybe to be competitive you should think about that. One of the big things people around here said time and time again was I wish they would give me a suggestion of HP to make it competitive. Now none of these things are perfect but to me it shows maybe someone is reading and trying to adapt.

But none of that is what is really on my mind. Based on some of the posts we have seen from Kaz or PD we know they are planning an update that will add the B-Spec anywhere and some new form of online racing club. We know that it was targeted originally at early Feb. We also know that there is an update planned to assist in fixing the GT Academy issues. So I don't think it is too far a jump in logic to assume that the planned update was pushed in order to accomplish both with one update.

I think it is entirely possible they had planned a new seasonal model as part of the update and were forced to scramble a bit when that update got pushed. Only time will tell and as for me I am willing to wait and enjoy these for what they are. So far I am having fun with them. My only wish is that the competition was a bit more even top to bottom just so I am not forced to overpower 10 cars to beat the one that is above the rest.

 

[Holyman]

Well there's someone waiting to moan about every scenario I'm sure I think the problem there is a base human reaction to being given a target - most will attempt to reach that target as soon as is (humanly) possible, usually at the detriment of actual enjoyment. For this reason, I think the XP system is a "fail" of sorts since many folk simply lack the patience to not immediately "aim high".

That's a good point.

A simple solution might be to just remove the level cap altogether (though for coding reasons, it might need to be set at 999,999 or similar).

I think the fact that "Level 40" sits there, tantalisingly out of reach, is like a red rag to many people, particularly those encultured to RPG's.

If it was (effectively) open-ended, with perhaps the final game functionality unlocks (custom coloured X2010's and the 24hr 'Ring event) available at a lower, more easily achieved level (say 30 or 35), then I don't think we'd see the rabid compulsion to achieve something (level 40) that ultimately and currently means there can be no further measure of progress.

Those players who feel like they want to have full and unrestricted access to all of the Game's features would reach that point relatively quickly. And those who wish to demonstrate/display their abilities/commitment by climbing up a Level Ladder will still be able to do so.

I hit level 40 on B-Spec a couple of weeks ago, but am still level 33 A-Spec. I've had the 9hr Tsukuba Endurance open to me for a while, but am in no great rush to complete it (neither are my wife or kids rushing me to do it either...). So apart from the two 24-hour A-Spec Endurance races (again: no rush...), I now have complete access to all the Game's features and functions.

And consequently, I'm quite pleased with these new Season 7 Events (particularly as I had a Ferrari F1 car gathering dust in my garage), since they've (slightly) expanded the number of events to play around with.

Of course that human part of me that compels me to reach any target laid before me as soon as possible means I immediately took to the events with a car guaranteed to fill those empty boxes with gold trophies... But that didn't take very long, and I can now revisit them with cars that enable the AI to supply me with a challenging race.

I really do feel that eliminating the level cap (and might as well eliminate the credit cap while they're at it) will soothe a lot of those (possibly borderline OCD) players who feel compelled to hit the level 40 target as fast and as hard as possible.