Conundrum - lead to cost analysis

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by Lawndart, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Lawndart

    Lawndart

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    After learning that Pcars won't support Fanatec on the ps4, and wanting to preorder Pcars, I was forced to rethink my near future gaming platform so I did a cost comparison.

    Currently I have 2 of nearly everything Fanatec has made, half I bought, the other inherited as in a game developer. So I set out to do a very quick cost analysis vs quality of experience.

    To continue racing games on console (this really could be either xbox or ps4) I would need to buy a console, and a new inferior wheel.

    That's about 900 with tax and technically a large step backwards in in peripherals quality. And that doubles if I want to play racing games on both Xbox and ps4... Many of you have thought about this and are likely just as frustrated.

    So for the full console experience across both platforms I'm looking at about 1800...

    But there is now a wild card, Pcars is on PC, along with other racers I could explore, PC games are supported by mods, and I used to be a big PC gamer... So I priced out this wild-card... And I came up with 2 results, base and splurge;

    Base:
    New box, i5 with SSD and 8 Meg's ram, recycling my Titan black (huge savings)
    650 for top self and I'm enjoying Pcars, iracing, asseta corsa, etc...

    Splurge:
    But what if I splurged using 1900 as my budget? Then add;
    Triple screen, basher box, tablet secondary screens (software), a year of iracing... All together? 1400ish...

    Now I have 2 of everything (wheels and peddles), even spare chassis... So I could do two full side by side setups for double the base price... And charge the neighborhood kids to play! (Lol no!)

    So by no longer limiting myself to GT and Forza, recycling my peripherals as they are better than anything new anyway, I'm opening up a new world! And it will be years before I need to think about GT 7 (because it will be years before its "done" even if released early)... So Pcars is a liberator!... What a strange statement.

    Is anyone else in this same boat? The cost analysts alone is saying go back to PC...

    But there is a cheat in here, I do get my video cards for free and a Titan X or Black is over kill, and does cut 1k from the PC side but the math still works, just the margins are much closer and you need to think of the additional product offerings... But if your doing the same math then downgrade to a gtx 770 or less, plenty strong enough to power your PC sims, and with Pcars able to simship on console they likely have pretty clean and efficient rendering code...

    It's still a struggle to shift platforms but the reality can't be ignored and with any cheap laptop I can simply stream any game from steam (Pcars can be added to steam even if not released on steam) to wherever I want to set up my chassis...

    Anyone else have suggestions or more efficacy approaches? Or simply in the same boat of refusing to let go of your existing peripheral setups?
     
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  2. DG_Silva

    DG_Silva

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    The 780GTX is more powerful than the Titan, so I would suggest looking at that for ways of saving money.
     
  3. DG_Silva

    DG_Silva

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    I've noticed you said you get your graphics card for free. That being the case, blag the most powerful one you can. Why not? It may seem like overkill, but it will stand you in good stead for upcoming games.
     
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  4. Lawndart

    Lawndart

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    Yeah, I have to support as much hardware as possible in my "day job" but getting a Titan X might require some convincing... Basicly an accelerated SLI Titan blacks... They are 3k retail so cost for nvidia is likely quite high... I was provided 2 Blacks instead... So if I opted for the side by side chassis with no triple screens then it's about 1400 as I'll need a decent monitor... Still cheap but heavily reliant on recycling.
     
  5. DG_Silva

    DG_Silva

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    If you can afford it, go for the best you can afford.
     
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  6. PIP_36

    PIP_36

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    I had the same dilemma as you OP, although I was a little more impulsive...

    I configured and ordered a new PC at the start of the week and hopefully should have it by next weekend.

    I acted quickly because I resented the fact that as a G27 owner I was being held dangling on a string to find out if my wheel will work on the PS4.

    Sony don't seem too bothered about me not knowing if my wheel won't work and they certainly don't seem too eager to help. So, long story short, I've turned my back on console racing and I'm diving head first into PC sim racing...I wish I did it years ago!

    Even if I found out tomorrow that all Logitech wheels will work on the PS4 I'd still be going down the PC route, I feel now that my racing rig, my modded G27 and my time deserve more than what the consoles can offer me as a sim racer.

    I've tasted the PC sims on my laptop (very low settings) and now there's no going back.

    iRacing, Asseto Corsa, R3E, RBR, pCars are what await me...and I'm more than just a little excited!

    Will be adding triple screens and a button box in the coming months.

    For a new wheel and PS4 I was looking at around £720.

    The PC I've ordered has cost me (all in inc delivery) £940.

    Things will be tight for a month or two but I don't regret my decision one little bit, the extra expense is well worth it considering that the sims are a lot cheaper on PC and the options I now have.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  7. skazz

    skazz

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    Just to add historical perspective: at the launch of the Xbox360 and PS3 you would have had a similar conundrum, if cheaper. Back then playing Forza and GT would have required two different rigs, and support in games for wheels was also very limited: there was only the MS wheel on Xbox and only a few Logitech options on PS3 (remember the G25 and DFGT were released after PS3 launch!)

    So in reality this whole peripherals market is cyclic. At launch of consoles you go through a period of lock-in, then at some point things are likely to open up.

    Release dates:
    - Xbox360 2005
    - PS3 2006
    - Logitech G25 late 2007
    - Logitech DFGT late 2007 (ahead of GT5p release)
    - Fanatec Porsche Turbo S (first multi platform wheel, in limited run) 2009
    - Fanatec Porsche GT2 (first full production multi platform wheel) 2011

    Things will change. But anything inside the first 2 years of a new console is "early adopter". In the meantime PC is a stable platform, just like it always has been.
     
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  8. ChrisWAFC

    ChrisWAFC

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    I'm a ps4 owner with a g25 and to be honest life goes on.

    I'm going for the t300 + t500 pedals (if I can find) and gt omega art.

    Going to see if I can sell my custom rig with g25 then to help.
     
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  9. Willfred_1

    Willfred_1

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    rather than going triple screen why not oculus its like $400 dollars and will be better than any triple screen setup
    speak to @digiprost about the oculus
    its also future proof
     
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  10. Imari

    Imari

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    @Lawndart

    If you're not a current PC simmer, then moving to PC gives you years of racing before you need to think about consoles again. By which point the consoles are cheaper, most of the games you wanted to play are cheaper, and likely you save nearly as much money as it cost you to buy the cheap version of your setup anyway, should you choose to go that way.

    By going PC you miss out on GT and Forza. Nearly everything else is available, plus a bunch of other very, very good sims. Pick up GT and Forza at the end of the console cycle and enjoy them then for a minimum of cost, and use the savings to enjoy the excellent PC sims in the meantime.

    Even moving to a basic PC gaming machine is worthwhile, and the hardware it sounds like you have access to is not basic.

    =====

    pCARS will almost certainly be released on Steam, as the beta is currently running through Steam and has been for some time. It's not a guarantee, but it's strongly implied.

    =====

    I have to say, it's similar reasoning that has stopped me from buying a next gen console. I could afford it (probably), but I have Fanatec hardware and I just don't see the justification in the cost of a new console and a new wheel/pedals. On PC I have iRacing, AC, pCARS, GAS and a bunch of older sims and racing games that I picked up for less than $5 each. I have more games than I have time to play. I'd love to play Forza 5, but I can't justify the cost when I have so many more games in front of me right now, offering less diversity but still great racing.
     
  11. skazz

    skazz

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    On that subject. Let's say Rift CV1 manages each eye at 1440p. Obviously we know that you CAN'T EVER let the frame rate in game drop below 75Hz, doing so causes immediate nausea. That means you need a GPU which is sufficiently overpowered to run every game in reasonable graphic settings at dual screen 1440p above 75Hz with no frame drops whatsoever.

    Triple screens can permit frame drops, you don't immediately feel ill from watching a few dropped frames on a normal screen.

    Suddenly Rift isn't so cheap, is it?
     
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  12. silverstar189

    silverstar189

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    I'm a G27 owner and also looking at how cost effective going to PC would be for me. I only play occasionally so it seems a waste for me to sell off my perfectly good wheel and stand. At the moment with the ps4 at £350, a new wheel and £50 a year for psn (which will probably amount to around another £250-300 over the lifecycle of the console), come November a PC Base unit connected to my TV may well prove a highly viable option. I'm not looking to make a decision until November at the earliest though, in case further information comes up regarding logitech support.
     
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  13. Willfred_1

    Willfred_1

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    thtas why i said speak to digiprost as he has an oculus rift and if this guy in the op has acess to free gpus then to me it makes sense.
     
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  14. Lawndart

    Lawndart

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    You really explained that well. And console is always an option later but "skipping" Forza 5 for now is about the only thing I'm giving up... And I was a massive Forza 4 fan, but going to an expensive inferior wheel and peddles does knock Forza down a few more pegs... And I've had no desire to play it. GT 6 was a hold over but now that we know Sony is also using RFID chips, the final nail has been hammered in the coffin.

    I was always a PC gamer, but started enjoying consoles around 2005... I still play Falcon 4 and Silent Hunter on PC. So it feels like returning to my roots more than anything... And I'm really looking forward to what the modding communities do with Pcars. I think both MS and Sony botched this new generation beyond our wheel issues... But it's been 9 years since they last released their boxes, so things change.
     
  15. azidahaka

    azidahaka

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    any words on expected pc requirements for 100% detail, maxed out effect, 1080p 60fps Project racing experience?
     
  16. Marqus

    Marqus

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  17. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    I'm wondering if building a PC for pCARS and maybe a few other games is a viable option as well, as I would not like to have to purchase a new wheel since my G27 has so few hours on it.

    I believe it would be a better option just to get pCARS on a new PC than to get a PS4 + Thrustmaster. However I have very little experience in building PC's.
     
  18. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    Well for me it is even more pushing to the PC. I also have two Fanatec wheels both had 360 and PS3 support and have not bought a PS4 nor XB1 at this point. I do however already have a PC that should run PCars very well, worst case I may want to upgrade the video card a bit from the 9800GT that is in it now but even that will likely only take 100 bucks and most likely will not be required as the specs say it works on a 9600GT with half the ram of the card in my current PC.

    SO in my case it is a no brainer, PC version of PCars and then wait and see about getting a PS4 when GT7 comes out. Hopefully it will support one or all of my existing wheels at that point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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  19. A1-242

    A1-242

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    I built both my son & my own gaming computer from watching YouTube, it's a lot easier than you would think. I think the hardest part was waiting for the operating system & drivers to load.
     
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  20. Willfred_1

    Willfred_1

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    I know had a faulty hdmi cable so i was tearing my hair out for 6 hrs then swapped the cable and it worked.
     
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  21. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    One of the most important things when building your own system is to make sure that the components you select are going to work well together.

    It is also important to make sure that your case is going to have plenty of air flow for cooling the components and that your PS is high quality with more than enough power to handle the load.
     
  22. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Those are some concerns for me, pcpartpicker does a good job of letting me know whether or not my pieces are compatible or not.

    My only issue is that I don't want to over-build a PC to play pCARS and end up spending money buying something that I could've held back on.

    This is the system I've put together
    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/xjvtLk
    Was hoping someone with more experience than I could offer an opinion or two on what could be scaled back. I originally had a 4670k i5 but figured that would probably be overkill. I also had a full-size ATX mother board but scaled back to a micro.

    My goals for this system:
    -Good CPU
    -Decent Motherboard
    -Good Graphics Card
    -SSD and IHD Hybrid
    -Under $1000
     
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  23. Willfred_1

    Willfred_1

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    just a few points double check the size of case and wehter it is big enough for the gpu. Some cases don't cater for long gpus
    secondly i would go for a normal sized mother board with a midi tower it will improve airflow and reduce the temp inside it might make the build slightly cheaper
    CPU seems a bit slow though judt my opinion but with the other bits 3.2 seems slow i would have put in a CPU with a speed of 3.5ghz or higher
    money could be saved on the ssd i would go for one smaller and just have the os sytem on that it will make a big difference with windows. speaking of which i would go for windows 7 but that's just preference.
    what kind of framerate do you want from pcars as a gpu could be downgraded slightly
     
  24. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Thanks for the info, I'll consider upgrading it back to full ATX then and take a look at the processor. I'd ideally like a high framerate for pCARS, no specific numerical goal, though.

    And the goal of the SSD was to also have a couple of games on it for minimum loading times. Could I still shrink the size?

    EDIT: You have succeeded in making my system significantly more expensive. But that's okay, I think I'm happier with it this way.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6WPkHx
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  25. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    @Snaeper

    I think this build will give reasonable performance and is under $800: Link

    If wanted extra performance on a budget then only thing I would change with extra money would be to get a GTX 760 instead for less than $70 extra although I don't think it is really worth that much more.
     
  26. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Thanks for the recommendation. I altered my list with your insight to make a system I'm happy with at a price I could live with, too. I could probably come down on the graphics card a bit, but I'm not really sure. I'm happy with the specs on the current card I have listed.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Vzs7sY

    @Willfred_1 going to a full size motherboard and case did not help pricing, and looking at the case I've picked for a Micro ATX desktop, I don't think cooling should be much of an issue. I'm not planning on overclocking the system so I would hope that would alleviate cooling concerns. How much will the 3.5ghz improve system performance over 3.2?
     
  27. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    The RAM I chose is a bit cheaper and will give you a bit more performance too. I would stick with Windows 8.1 too just in case Windows 7 does not get DirectX12 support. The Rosewill 650w PSU is rated quite well with a very long warranty too so I personally would get that and up to you if you want a Blu-Ray writer for a bit extra or not. GPU wise, you will not get much more FPS going with GPU you picked (Seems a waste of nearly $70) but might get a considerable increase if gone with Nvidia card as pCARS seems to get much better framerate with Nvidia cards at the moment although remains to be seen how performance will be at final release.

    By the way my i5 4430 at only 3.0GHz does not struggle with pCARS on Ultra settings.
     
  28. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

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    I also would go with a Nvidia GPU and most likely one that is about $50-$100 cheaper than that ATI card.
    PSU 550 watt sounds a bit weak, I would go to at least a 650 and make sure that it is a good one. Lately I have been buying mostly Ultra due to the lifetime warranty on them and have had excellent luck with them, when one failed it was no hassle at all getting it replaced.

    My system that I plan to use at the moment is

    AMD Phenom 1100T 6 core CPU
    nVidia GEForce 9800GT 1gb
    8gb ddr3 ram
    Windows 7x64 Ultimate
    DVD RW
    Dual Sata HDDs
    750 watt PSU

    I think this should run the game pretty well with worst case being that I need to bump up the GPU a little but I would expect to get a card that can more than do the job for around $100
     
  29. skazz

    skazz

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    That 9800GT is about 3 years older than minimum spec for pCARS.....
     
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  30. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    This was something I was curious about, perhaps I'll wait even until Windows 9 comes out before making a decision to see how that software performs. I had originally selected 8.1 for that reason, because I didn't want to get caught out using an older (if better) OS.

    And about that ram, the motherboard doesn't mention 1866, won't that downgrade the performance of the memory to essentially 1600?

    Lastly, If the system does end up being a little over the top in certain areas, I'm okay with that. I will most likely use this for other purposes and games, and I'd ideally like to future proof it a bit so that my equipment is still capable a year or so from now. I don't want to get into the habit of buying new PC parts all every year. My wallet would hate me more than it already does.

    EDIT: Alright, I think I'm happy with this system:
    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FFKmNG
    I could sleep well if I upgraded the CPU, but with your input, I feel like the 4570 would be a safe bet moving forward. I went with a nicer motherboard to fully take advantage of the RAM you suggested and am happy with just about everything. Could maybe pick up an Internal Hard Drive if memory becomes an issue.

    Also, that PSU is way overkill for the estimated wattage this system will need, but could certainly future proof it in the event I add more pieces to the pie.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014