Correct Errors

[cerbman1]

For example, my son and I drag raced 2 Jags, the XFR and S type R, in reality this should be a no contest, however to 100mph the STR was ahead of the XFR.

 

[Famine]

For example, my son and I drag raced 2 Jags, the XFR and S type R, in reality this should be a no contest, however to 100mph the STR was ahead of the XFR.

What's the error that needs correcting?

 

[cerbman1]

What's the error that needs correcting?

I would've thought that was obvious if you read my post. The XFR is the faster car.

 

[Famine]

I would've thought that was obvious if you read my post. The XFR is the faster car.

Okay, but you've not described an error. In order to correct an error, the individual doing the correcting needs to know what the error actually is. A person beating another person in a drag race in what should be a slower car doesn't describe an error, it describes an outcome.

 

[cerbman1]

Okay, but you've not described an error. In order to correct an error, the individual doing the correcting needs to know what the error actually is. A person beating another person in a drag race in what should be a slower car doesn't describe an error, it describes an outcome.

The XFR accelerates slower to 100 than the STR in GT5 and GT6. So the fault is an old one. This was just an example, I could go on. The sound of the STR is wrong, where is the supercharger whine? The modelling is wrong, the lists are endless.

 

[NJ72]

It's not necessarily going to be a no contest as you say.

The XFR has much more torque (461lb/f) compared to the STR (408lb/f); dependant on the tyres you are using the XFR would (in theory) generate more wheelspin and less actual traction off the line, thus potentially resulting in a variable 0-100 time potentially in the STR's favour.


Equally they have different engines in (5 litre and 4.2 litre respectively) which would likely have different shift points. It may be that one driver was shifting at (or closer to) the optimum shift point whereas the other driver may not have been.

I have not driven either of these cars, so cannot say, but it could be a million and one different things and not an error.

With regards to the sounds, we all know the sounds aren't great, PD already said that they are hoping to included updated sounds at a later date - is that really worth creating a whole new thread?

With regards to the model, I believe the STR is a standard? it's the same model that was in GT4, hence why it doesn't appear as accurate and pretty as the XFR

 

[Kitten]

With regards to the model, I believe the STR is a standard? it's the same model that was in GT4, hence why it doesn't appear as accurate and pretty as the XFR

Same one from GT4

 

[NJ72]

Same one from GT4

I miss GT4. Hong Kong and New York were awesome tracks

 

[Kitten]

Im assuming both of the STR and XFR are stock.

XFR - 513 HP | 1960 kg | 636 Nm Torque

S-Type R - 406HP | 1800 kg | 563 Nm Torque


The S-Type R is lighter by over 160KG but is down 107HP on the XFR.

Now im assuming both are stock.? My question is what tires were you guys using? And was the ST-R was using Nitrous? Thats the question... Its kind of like questionable. Because you didnt give us any detail... If both were fully tuned. That would be a different story...

 

[NJ72]

Im assuming both of the STR and XFR are stock.

XFR - 513 HP | 1960 kg | 636 Nm Torque

S-Type R - 406HP | 1800 kg | 563 Nm Torque

The S-Type R is lighter by over 160KG but is down 107HP on the XFR.

Now im assuming both are stock.? My question is what tires were you guys using? And was the ST-R was using Nitrous? Thats the question... Its kind of like questionable. Because you didnt give us any detail... If both were fully tuned. That would be a different story...

Are they the stats from GT? As that may actually be an error - Although not one that should affect the drag as I believe the S-Type is also out.

According to Parkers.co.uk (http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/jaguar/xf/r-2009/51599/) the XF-R weighs 1890 and has 500Bhp. Torque is slightly lower at 625 as well. Not massive differences, but a difference none-the-less

 

[Kitten]

Checked another site the XFR 2010 weight is 1953KG at 510HP.

 

[NJ72]

Checked another site the XFR 2010 weight is 1953KG at 510HP.

Must be incorrect data from Parkers then. Sorry

 

[Kitten]

Must be incorrect data from Parkers then. Sorry

You were checking the 2011 Model

 

[Famine]

The XFR accelerates slower to 100 than the STR in GT5 and GT6.

That's still an outcome, not an error. The outcome may be dependent on a whole slew of errors - or just one - but you haven't described what the error actually is.

You need to go back and test to narrow down the error. The error could be that the S-Type R has more power or torque than it ought (and is too fast), or the XFR has less than it ought (and is too slow). It might be that the power/torque curves are incorrect or that the gearbox ratios are wrong (and bear in mind that both are full auto, with paddle shift manual override in the XFR - something not modelled in the game at all). It could be that the tyre modelling doesn't allow for the difference in friction coefficient between the two real cars - the OE Pirelli P6000s on the S-Type R are decade-old tech compared to the Continental SportContact of the XFR.

Without knowing what the error is, how can anyone correct it? Simply saying that one car is faster than another with two different drivers and you don't think it should be is not describing an error. And, for reference, I've driven both of them in the real world (coincidentally on OE tyres, one a press fleet vehicle) - and I wholly agree that the XFR ought to be a good few car lengths faster with the same driver.

So the fault is an old one. This was just an example, I could go on.

You could, but if you're requesting errors be corrected you need to describe errors, not outcomes. And we're not Polyphony Digital, so we can't exactly action the corrections.

 

[ryzno]

Time for a Drag Racer to chime in on this "Drag Racing" subject...

First off, OP you give to little info for anyone to really help you. By that I mean: Stock, tuned(if so, fully, HP/PP restricted etc..) SRF TC etc... Tires...

Anyways... I did some testing. I will give my stats, setup etc...

Test runs were done at SSRX. 1:30pm. Track edge/rain: Real. All aids off except ABS1. Stock cars. Stock tires(SH). MPH(imperial).

XFR '10
510PP
528HP @6200 RPM
484.5TQ @2500 RPM
1960kg
P/W 3.71kg/HP
TS 216MPH

(All times are very close estimates)

G's: 60-65ish(conveniently no numeric value in the data logger. Thanks for screwing drag racers once again PD>>>)
0-60: 4.050
0-100: 9.515
1/4mi.: 12.500
1mi.: 30.515

Notes: I had to do a 2nd gear launch as a 1st to 2nd bogs too much to get a good test.(we will get back to this point in a few...)


S type R '02
490PP
419HP @6000 RPM
428.3TQ @3500 RPM
1800kg
P/W 4.29kg/HP
TS 194MPH

(All times are very close estimates)

G's: 60-65ish
0-60: 4.300
0-100: 10.650
1/4mi.: 12.740
1mi.: 31.975

Notes: I did a first gear launch cause the shift from 1st to second didn't bogg as in the previous test.

So my observations.

As the OP stated the XFR should be/is faster than a S type R. As my test proves it is...
I know we are not allowed to talk down of someone here. But this is clearly a problem with the drivers and not the cars.

(this last bit is my opinions and the assumption that the driver of the XFR was launching in first gear)
The only reason the S type R wins is because of the bogg between 1st and 2nd in the XFR. By that I mean the spacing between 1st and 2nd is to large of a gap to make up for the wheel spin in first. Thus stalling out 2nd and letting the S type R(which has a smooth transition between 1st and 2nd) walk away in the 0-60-100 in the OPs runs.

So I'll leave the proof in the pudding. The XFR can beat a S type R depending on the drivers knowledge of Drag Racing.
If the cars are Drag Tuned let me know and I will redo my tests. But from the stock times, I see very little chance in a difference of results(except faster times)

Final note. I'm glad he posted here and not the Drag Forum or there would probably be someone with hurt feelings.

 

[cerbman1]

Im assuming both of the STR and XFR are stock.

XFR - 513 HP | 1960 kg | 636 Nm Torque

S-Type R - 406HP | 1800 kg | 563 Nm Torque

The S-Type R is lighter by over 160KG but is down 107HP on the XFR.

Now im assuming both are stock.? My question is what tires were you guys using? And was the ST-R was using Nitrous? Thats the question... Its kind of like questionable. Because you didnt give us any detail... If both were fully tuned. That would be a different story...

Both cars are standard. Traction control on, auto transmission too. So equal playing field. The XFR seems too slow at lower speeds when compared to most road tests I've seen. Over 100 seems OK. The STR is a little too quick at lower speeds and higher speed is just wrong. eg. 0 to 150 is around 22-24 seconds for an XFR and way over 32 seconds for the STR, this difference is not shown in the game. The cars have different engines yet sound the same, OK as mentioned earlier the sounds are pretty bad on other cars too.
I've not had the game long so I'm still checking it out.

 

[ryzno]

As I mentioned, I had to do a second gear launch in the XFR to get a time that was faster than the S type R. That can not be achieved in Auto Trans. GT(any) has HUGE flaws when it comes to Auto Trans, not to mention the countless others.

So I'll say again the XFR is faster.

Super Edit. I just realized you said TC on. With the wheel spin you get in the XFR I'm not surprised it lost. More wheel spin=more throttle cut.

Edit 2: Try the settings I mentioned with your son later. You will see the XFR is faster.

Just to keep it even. I dont know how old you kid is, to understand shifting . But the S type R can do a Auto Trans run. So I suggest giving him that car and you the XFR with a Manual Trans.

Few tips for the XFR. It will do a burn out and drop RPM a hair with a 2nd gear launch. As soon as it goes back up shift to 3rd. After that, shift every gear when the light comes on.

Other then that I cant help prove to you the XFR is faster in the game.

 

[YZF]

XFR '10
510PP
528HP @6200 RPM
484.5TQ @2500 RPM
1960kg
P/W 3.71kg/HP
TS 216MPH

BTW do you have any info what is the real top speed of this car in reality? I suppose 216MPH is definitely NOT?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Don't do any top speed test at SSRX, it has different track attributes than the rest, mainly drag is non existent there. If want realistic top speed test, do it at SSR7 ( tunnel )

 

[ColinH96]

Don't do any top speed test at SSRX, it has different track attributes than the rest, mainly drag is non existent there. If want realistic top speed test, do it at SSR7 ( tunnel )

Isnt the tunnel downhill on SSR7, I personally use Le Sarthe with no chicanes.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Isnt the tunnel downhill on SSR7, I personally use Le Sarthe with no chicanes.

There are 2 tunnels, if you start a race, it's the 1st tunnel that roughly level, the last tunnel that leads to finish line is the one that has a bit of downhill angle. You should notice when the car is slower to reach top speed on the 1st tunnel

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Both cars are standard. Traction control on, auto transmission too. So equal playing field. The XFR seems too slow at lower speeds when compared to most road tests I've seen. Over 100 seems OK. The STR is a little too quick at lower speeds and higher speed is just wrong. eg. 0 to 150 is around 22-24 seconds for an XFR and way over 32 seconds for the STR, this difference is not shown in the game. The cars have different engines yet sound the same, OK as mentioned earlier the sounds are pretty bad on other cars too.
I've not had the game long so I'm still checking it out.

The XFR won't get off the line nearly as fast as the S Type, especially if you just mash the throttle and go. With TC on it'll restrict most of your power, and with TC off it'll be hard, but not impossible, to get the optimal amount of wheelspin. If I were you, I'd do a run in each with the same driver, manual transmission (so you can be consistent in your shift patterns), and with traction control off (along with all other aids turned off, except for ABS). You'll likely find the XFR has a lot more wheelspin and is harder to launch quickly, but that when you get it right it's quicker.

 

[ryzno]

BTW do you have any info what is the real top speed of this car in reality? I suppose 216MPH is definitely NOT?

The top speed is limited to 155MPH and The real 0-60 is 4.7 sec.

Though just for a good read. Read this. It hit 225 at Bonneville, a build by Jaguar.

 

[YZF]

The top speed is limited to 155MPH and The real 0-60 is 4.7 sec.

Though just for a good read. Read this. It hit 225 at Bonneville, a build by Jaguar.

The car in that Bonneville test had 'some' modifications, so not so stock....

Much of the high speed credit goes to the XFR's revised supercharged engine, which has only received a remapped ECU, a less restrictive air intake and exhaust system, and updated supercharger settings

Who knows what company engineers have done to that engine and how much the boost was raised, etc.

 

[gordongt]

-sigh- another complain thread

 

[Mad Matt]

True but as the thread has developed we've got some useful information coming out. It's not as bad as the "I don't like X in GT6 so I'm not playing any more" and nor is it a subject that I've seen repeated thousands and thousands of time in every thread on almost any subject.

 

[NJ72]

True but as the thread has developed we've got some useful information coming out. It's not as bad as the "I don't like X in GT6 so I'm not playing any more" and nor is it a subject that I've seen repeated thousands and thousands of time in every thread on almost an subject.

I agree, I think it started as a 'GT6 sucks because X' thread, but has turned into more of a discussion around vehicle physics and capabilities beyond the "MOAR POWER!" argument.

I don't think it is being progressed as the OP has moved on...

 

[jimipitbull]

For example

Was there already a member called cerbman?

 

[twitcher]

There are 2 tunnels, if you start a race, it's the 1st tunnel that roughly level, the last tunnel that leads to finish line is the one that has a bit of downhill angle. You should notice when the car is slower to reach top speed on the 1st tunnel

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both tunnels on SSR7 have the exact same grade....

Regardless of which tunnel you are in, if you are heading towards the toll booth turn-around, you'll be going up hill. If you are heading away from the toll booth turn-around, you'll be going downhill.

 

[NJ72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both tunnels on SSR7 have the exact same grade....

Regardless of which tunnel you are in, if you are heading towards the toll booth turn-around, you'll be going up hill. If you are heading away from the toll booth turn-around, you'll be going downhill.

I think he was referring to the tunnels on SSRX not SSR7?