Could the Xbox One Lose Its Disc Drive and Go All Digital Ahead of E3 2019?

Discussion in 'Console & PC Gaming' started by GTPNewsWire, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. fatkid

    fatkid

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    How did I go against my own argument? I meant options in allowing you to do both with one product. How is that not the most beneficial? The current range of consoles allow both physical and digital games to be played on one machine. The same way the new S10 allows both wired and wireless headphones. Not just one or the other. MS are testing the waters and if we go completely digital only then we are at the complete mercy of their drm policies. The cheaper second hand market, availability of a full catalogue of games, able to to swap and try out games and play an old console after support has long stopped, still stand as a massive benefit over what going fully digital will offer. Tell me what huge benefits going fully digital offer over this?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  2. ImaRobot

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    Am I the only one that uses the drive for Blu-Ray movies? I specifically buy 4K movies on hard copy for my One X, because I've never liked owning digital media like that, as well as music.
     
  3. BadFlounder

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    . Fair enough. But again, why would I want a physical drive in my console? I have purchased hundreds of games for the PS4 this generation....and I've not used the optical drive even a single time. I never will. Why should I pay for something I don't want or won't use? I can get a smaller console and a cheaper one too....without that option. I'm not saying not to offer the optical drive option.....just that having both options is a good thing. I'd still buy the console with the optical drive if that was the only option. But give me one without it and I'm definitely all in on that one. To each their own. You can buy the console that fits your gaming preferences best.

    I don't care at all about the "cheaper second hand market". I haven't bought used game since the original Xbox/PS2 days. Being able to swap games and play an old console longer after support has stopped? I think that ship sailed long ago. Every game requires a day one patch...and usually many more updates beyond that. How are you going to play the game if you can't access those? I can't say I like that it is this way these days, but that is the reality. You are wishing for a time that has long since passed.

    I already laid out the benefits of going digital in my earlier post. I've been digital this entire generation and it's been great. I don't need to store a bunch of physical media and I can instantly play every single game on my console. The only caveat is I had to add an external HDD, but as I pointed out earlier, that is still the case with disc based games too. They don't stream from the optical drive this generation on either XB1 or PS4.

    I'm not telling you that these are "massive benefits" in your situation. It's up to the gamer. For me those two points alone make digital more than worth it. I much prefer the convenience over saving money buying/selling used games, etc. But that's just my circumstance. Yours are yours.

    As for your "this is the beginning of the move to all digital". That's a trend that has been going on in the industry for many years. Microsoft or Sony don't need to do anything. IMO, that change is going to happen eventually no matter what. How many people still buy PC games on discs versus Steam? How many people still buy CDs versus digital or streaming music? This is just where the industry is headed. I'm glad that we have both physical and digital options. Hopefully we do next generation as well (I suspect we will). I just don't see the need to be threatened by simply having another option. If you want the optical drive console then buy that and continue buying/collecting game discs. As long as the sales are there, Microsoft and Sony will continue to support them. CDs are still sold after all, just not nearly as much. The section in the store is a fraction of what it once was....but the option remains. As I said, the market continues to trend towards digital.....will it ever get there completely? Who knows. Time will tell.

    I think a lot of people do! Why do people see having a digital option as a bad thing? This is the point I keep trying to make. No one is forcing you to abandon your Blu-ray Discs and use an Apple TV. You have the choice. I'd feel differently here if Microsoft were ceasing support for physical media, but I don't think they are doing that. They recognize there are a lot of folks that prefer all digital these days. There is a market for that. That said, there is definitely still a market for physical media. The larger market I'd say is definitely still for physical media. Why not have options for both?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
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  4. ImaRobot

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    Where did I say it was a bad thing? I asked because all throughout the thread it was never touched upon.
     
  5. Wolfe

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    This is true -- for a limited subsection of (usually western) games...on two of the three consoles on the market.

    Which is part of why I prefer indie titles, games made by Nintendo or their closely related studios, or the other (often Japanese) studios who don't lean so hard on that crap. I'm still on that metaphorical ship, and enjoying it. Your "reality" describes very few of the games I buy. Mostly just racing games like PCARS2 or Ride 3, which is about all my PS4 is for.

    Other games are out there. Lots of them! :)
     
  6. BadFlounder

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    Fair enough. I think it seems fairly obvious I wasn't referring to you individually. "People" doesn't refer to anyone specific, but I could have been more clear there. ;)

    I know! I buy and play tons of them. :) The reality referred to is simply where the industry is these days, whether you buy the games or not. That is the practice and I don't think there is any way that toothpaste is going back in the tube. In some ways I'm not a big fan of it, but then again.....it's also good that major bugs can be patched now versus days gone. I have memories of more than one game (and Nintendo specifically) arriving with some glaring bugs that were never able to be dealt with. All in all I prefer today's situation although it's not without downsides.

    I forgot to mention the single biggest reason I have gone digital. Can't believe I forgot this one. The whole reason I went digital to begin with is because I have two PS4s. One in the living room and one in the sim-rig in the office. With digital I only needed to buy games once....and I can play them on both consoles simultaneously. That was by far the biggest reason for me going digital. I found the other pluses were nice too, but that was the original reason. To be fair, most households have a single console. I did too until I got more into sim-racing. In the end, I'm just glad we have the option for either physical or digital.
     
  7. ImaRobot

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    I realize you were speaking generally, but that was followed by a question I asked, as if it was insinuated in my statement. I have no problem with the option, but we don't know if it's an option or not yet because it's just a rumor.

    To expand on my opinion about it; While I do want my music and movies in physical form, I very much prefer my games digitally. That's largely due to the fact that no matter what version you buy you'd still have to install it in full. Also because it's just a time saver when transition between many different games throughout a day as well, even if not by much. It's a welcome convenience, but only for certain aspects fo rme.
     
  8. Crazy Taylor

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    The additional bonus of using two ps4 is that PS plus works the same way, where you can get plus for ou other ps3, without forking out for another sub. The only downside to gamesharing I know is that is you lose Internet, only the activated ps4 can play downloaded digital games.
     
  9. ctdc67

    ctdc67

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    The S model is under powered,so make it the X model and forget about the S altogether.
     
  10. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    Updates are fine; some of the recent games I love have been made even better with updates, and I'm aware of glaring bugs in older games.

    The point is that only a limited portion of the industry has fallen into that "reality" where you would not be able to get a worthwhile experience out of a game on an empty older console after updates are no longer available for download. It is invalid as a reason to discredit the value of (old) physical copies outright.
     
  11. BadFlounder

    BadFlounder

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    Except I'm not doing that. I never once "discredited the value of physical copies outright". All I keep saying over and over is that this is another option for gamers, and that some prefer it. Why so defensive? I'm not saying how you manage your collection is a bad thing. Only pointing out the industry trends, and how digital fits better for me this generation. I'm not trying to take your physical media. lol If you want the drive, and the physical media, then buy the console with the drive! I'd buy one without, which fits my situation better, but that's just me. Again, I fail to see how having more options is a bad thing, or some "discredit to physical copies".

    Yep. A good point. Personally, I find it much easier to buy a 4 TB external and just keep a ton of games installed there. That set up works with discs too, of course, but it doesn't buy you any more storage to use discs. As you said, all games are fully installed this gen. I found it funny that both KindaFunny and IGN podcasts up talking about this topic today.....and everyone missed this fact. They kept saying "you need a bigger hard drive if you don't have an optical drive". Nope. I mean, yeah, if you want to keep every single game installed you might....but that's now true of disc based games too. Games streaming from the optical drive was the PS3/360 era.

    True. That minor inconvenience has bitten me a couple times when I wanted to race and couldn't because of the licensing and my internet being down. It's rare, but it has happened.

    I agree, although I feel like Microsoft's goal here is to drive down the cost as much as possible to try and entice people onto the platform. Thus the S being the go-to console for this. But I'm with you, I'd be interested in a disc-less X console. Be interesting to see which direction they go on this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  12. Wolfe

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    You did:
    And I'm not arguing over the value of digital as an option. I buy both digital and physical, with my own reasons for each choice. :tup: You do you. I'm just tired of the notion that "every game" today is how you described them to be. Only two of the eleven PS4 games I own in physical form fit that description. On the Switch or Wii U, the number is zero.
     
  13. Dopplegagger

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    Looking at the game cases I have for the XB1(all one of them), I wonder why hasn't this happened when they released the XB1X?

    I was ready to go digital when the 7th gen was still going on. I ended up getting a XB1 and FM5 as a birthday gift, but everything else was downloaded onto the console.
     
  14. Terronium-12

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    My one and only concern is over the long term. Sure, digital sales are up, as are the average internet speeds across most of the world. However, I don't think they're at the threshold to sustain all digital all the time. Hell, you need 25 Mbps minimum to use PS Now as that solely relies on streaming the game from a server. Escalate that tenfold and you're running into possible congestion and ping issues both to and from.

    I don't think we're there quite yet.
     
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  15. Calmlity

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    Modern disc slots like those on the PS4 and Xbox One are vulnerable to problems or damage and have been a common problem. My PS4's has a little problem since months ago, I have to press the disc a bit forcefully until it reaches the roller inside so it can be swallowed. But I found it can scratch the discs' edges gradually. I may do not care anymore about physical copies (debates) since the machine itself can damage the discs. What has been a bit annoying for me about digital games is the DRM, restricted to be used for several consoles only, not unlimited for one account. Hope it will be changed in the future.
    This Disc-less Xbox, if a lot cheaper, I think has a chance to sell better than its predecessors.
     
  16. ImaRobot

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    It is? This whole generation I've had absolutely zero issues at all with both the Xbox One and One X, and I've been with it since the launch of both of them.
     
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  17. Chin

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    Lol, MS and their relentless mission to completely kill off the secondhand game market any which way they can.

    All you "digital" guys do realize you wont find a fully released game for under 30-40 if everything goes digital right?.... even probably after 3yrs of its release.

    And you are only technically paying to access the game, never actually owning it...... once your sub goes down or expires you cant access your games.
     
  18. ImaRobot

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    By offering options? Thing is, this is just a rumor, so to be that damning sounds a bit ridiculous and jumping the gun because of personal bias.

    And that's because what? Your Imagination?

    I've managed to snag NFS 2015, as terrible as it was, for 15 dollars on sale from $49.99 on the digital store. A sale that wasn't happening with a physical copy at the time. Not only that, but there's constant sales all the time, especially if you have something like Xbox Live Gold.

    You don't need a sub to buy games.

    You seem pretty misinformed here.
     
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  19. DDastardly00

    DDastardly00

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    No, I do the same thing, in fact I rarely stream movies at all outside of Netflix.

    As far as games go, I'm probably close to 50/50 physical vs digital but I'm trending towards more physical copies these days. The last 4 games I bought, 3 have physical copies:The Crew 2, FH4, RDR2 and 1 has been digital: AC Odyssey .

    I'm not sure I would buy a Xbox without a disc drive, even if it saved me a substantial amount off the price, I very likely would lean towards no.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  20. Chin

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    It's nothing to do with "rumor" or "bias"..... it's because they simply tried the same trick when launching the XB1 back in June 2013'... when they tried to "restrict" the used games market with their drm crap and locking games to one system etc, that they then doubled back on.


    There will always be sales and freebies probably, but Im talking about the games on there that are yrs old that you can snag in the physical secondhand market format for dirt cheap.... and that helps if you've always wanted to check an older game out but dont want to pay that daft digital price ... Lets say I want to check out Farcry 3 for example. It can be gotten for10 tens less secondhand physically compared to digitally. Also I will own it after buying it, and can loan/sell it on etc when done, simple!!... Now, what sort of crazy person would prefer to go buy it digitally? lol..... so it's either fork out or miss out if/when everything goes digital.

    If a console ever offers 2 versions (one with disk drive and one without)... buy the one with the disk drive, you will be a complete idiot if you dont!!!!..... Totally burdening yourself to forever paying them digital prices... That's not subjective either, because you WILL lose cash over the duration of the time you own the machine by buying digitally. So for them guys saying " I'm not paying for a blu-ray drive I wont use".... you are just wasting that saving on the extra digital games cost anyhow, so its nullified basically, and you aren't saving anything, in fact you are screwing yourself over!!!

    Of course you do. How the hell do you even get the games then, let alone play them online?
     
  21. ImaRobot

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    So, it's going to kill off the second hand game market by offering a potential option? I'm not really sure how you are connecting the two at all. I do get that it was a push in the past, that didn't happen at all, but how exactly would offering a console with no disc drive along side one that does reflect that?

    I've never bought used games for dirty cheap from some random guy on the internet, nor any electronics, because of past experiences. I'm even more weary of store bought used games, but at least those have a return policy. Makes it easier to bite the bullet in that case.

    True, but all this cry is for naught. Partly because this is just a rumor, and even more so that it's unlikely that this will be the only console being sold. Especially considering they've already planned multiple consoles. Not just this one. Either way, it's unlikely you'd be getting a large amount of money anyways from the resell, especially for a game that old, and especially for one that was already dirt cheap when you bought it.

    The game is 5 dollars at Gamestop. You're definitely going to make a huge profit off that one right?

    I would. Because not only would I have to not have to worry about damaged disc, but I can uninstall it and reinstall it at any time I want just in case I damage or lose the disc, because hey, guess what, I own it. Easy trade off to be honest.

    You mean like they're already planning?

    Eh, no you wouldn't. Especially if you've never planned on buying physical content in the first place.

    Using your example of old games costing too much digitally, Lets take a look at Castlevania
    Gamestop, Physical, used: $19.99
    Xbox Store, Digital, Brand new: $19.99

    Um... what were you saying again? Surely you can go on craigslist and scavenge around and hopefully find something. Good luck with that though. Funny thing here though, is that if I go through and get it digitally, I'm actually saving money at this point.

    It sure is, but please do explain how you think otherwise.

    Eh, no.

    I don't need a sub to buy my games. I fire up my account, whether I paid for a subscription to PS+ or XBL Gold, and buy a game. Easy.

    Not everyone cares to play them online, so not sure what that has to do with anything. Either way, that's a separate issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  22. Dopplegagger

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    If any of the console manufacturers wanted to "Kill the Second Hand Games market", all they would have to do is let the prices of Digital fall well below the suggested retail prices of physical copies. But that is not happening, probably because of all the Gollum going to their local game stores, and stroking the game cases while repeatedly saying "My Preciousss".



    I'm not one for streaming. I would prefer to have a digital copy, where I could access the game offline if needed. It seems that streaming may be the future of gaming. If so, then I will have to evaluate what I get for what I pay. But for now, any idea of a streaming subscription sounds ugly. Especially with the current trend of turning players into payers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  23. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    The laws of physics preclude streaming from ever being an option that can properly reproduce the experience of playing a game on a device in your own home -- instead of streaming the output to your screen over a physically lengthy network, streaming your input back to the server over a physically lengthy network, and then streaming the results of your input back over a physically lengthy network, etc.

    Though it does depend on how sensitive you are to input latency. I can't imagine playing anything but the likes of a turn-based RPG over a streaming service. I get the impression that company executives who opine about streaming-only being the future have never played a videogame that demands any kind of reflexes... :rolleyes:

    I own plenty of usable, reasonably unscratched discs that are now older than digital storefronts that have since been shut down. Optical media isn't very durable, no, but with some care it can definitely outlast a digital license granting you the right to re-download a game you've bought digitally. Which isn't what I consider "ownership", IMHO.
     
  24. ImaRobot

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    I do too, ones I bought new and took care of myself. I still have my original Xbox version of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic disc that I can pop in at any time because it’s still in good condition. However, the conversation was about second hand copies that you find in stores or on sites like Craigslist, and why I think a digital copy, at that point, would have nothing to worry about in that regard., and the insignificant(to non existent) price difference wasn’t worth it in my opinion. There’s a risk in that, and that’s specifically what my point was.
     
  25. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    What? No, seriously, what?

    This is unequivocally wrong. As a matter of fact, in a world where digital is the only option you're more likely to find a sale as there's no middle man that has to then pay a distributor; you're purchasing from said distributor directly. If there's a downward trend, whether it be in sales reception, a less than stellar launch week, etc, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo/whomever can react to that almost immediately.

    Yes, that is how a subscription service works but that's often exactly that: a service, as in entailing a catalog of something. A subscription service for individual games is never going to fly under any circumstance, regardless of the national average for internet speed. If you're referring to services the likes of EA/Origin Access then you're absolutely right.

    If you're implying individual titles purchased at retail price would also be relegated to said service (whatever it may be) I can't say "no" to that enough times.
     
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  26. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    There is a risk, but personally I've bought plenty of secondhand copies of games from stores and a few over the internet and have almost never had an issue with a game being scratched up. Even with games worth less than $10. :)

    I consider digital de-listing to be a more imminent and inevitable risk, even if that takes years and assumes I've removed or lost my original installation. There are already some purchases I'll never be able to re-download again from the Wii Shop Channel, which just shut down on January 30.
     
  27. ImaRobot

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    And you’re definitely not wrong in any way, thinking that. I was simply offering my subjective experience to someone who said it’s not subjective. I just haven’t had that experience, but I also never went out and tried to do it too often either. Like I said, stores have a return policy, so for me it was always easier doing that if I ever wanted too.

    The thing is, we aren’t likely to see that even remotely soon, especially so if I can still play and/or rebuy a 16 year old copy of the aforementioned Star Wars game. Some games, certainly so. Just like Forza Horizon 1, but that doesn’t represent it as a whole. At the same time though, it’ll also be extremely difficult to even find a copy of that Star Wars game in the first place Especially since the discussion is about actually finding those second hand copies. So am I really losing out either way? I don’t think so, so I’ll go for convenience.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  28. BadFlounder

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    Guy spends several posts arguing the same point that I'd already made several times. :lol: "You do you." Exactly. Been saying that in every post. Each situation is unique. I simply laid out why digital works better for me, and what the drawbacks are to physical media. But to each their own and all that. Honestly, bud, it doesn't diminish your physical media. You go on and fly that flag if it suits you. All good! :tup:

    Btw, probably not a great call to use Wii U (or even Switch) digital products as examples of de-listing or other poor digital delivery practices. Nintendo has many pluses, but digital delivery, online networking....really anything in the digital space, they are painfully slow to adapt and remain very far behind their peers. As you know, it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison when talking about Wii U versus PS4/XB1 with regards to digital content.
     
  29. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    Mid-term, yeah, maybe a physical copy is cheaper. I know that's currently the case for the PS4 remaster of Final Fantasy XII. I'm ordering a physical copy for $20, but it's still sitting at a regular retail price of $65 on PSN.

    Long-term? Eh, it varies. I also just bought two games I never got a chance to check out way back in the PS1 days: Blood Omen and Soul Reaver. They're $1.20 each right now, which is way less than I'll find them at any used games store. Not to mention I know they'll work perfectly.

    You keep stating this as a fact, when it isn't one.

    You may lose money going all-digital versus physical. You may not. There are a whole heap of variables at play:
    • Sale prices
    • How long you wait to buy a game
    • Whether or not you ever plan on selling a game off
    • Related to the above: how well you've kept your physical games
    • Backwards compatibility
    I still buy physical games, but the majority of my purchases this gen have been digital. I'll admit, a good chunk of that is down to convenience, but it also has to do with the visibility of sales on the digital store fronts versus hunting deals down at brick-and-mortars.

    There's a flip-side to that: for a short time there I got a little sucked into buying a lot of games that were cheap that I still haven't even got around to playing. It's a potential issue that I recognized after I started counting unplayed games. I've never been one to really sell games — I tended to only buy the games I really wanted, and just ignored the ones I was only mildly interested in. Digital sales made buying a cheap game easy, but the catch is that if I don't really love it, I can't sell it off. At least, not yet: there are rumbles about digital buy-backs, but I have no idea how that would work.

    Of course, programs like Xbox Game Pass trade off that. For a small price per month, people have access to far more games than they could reasonably play. If they like something, cool, they can buy it. If not? There's something else to try, for 1/6 the price of an actual copy, every month.

    Er, what?

    You can buy games from both PS and Xbox Stores without having a subscription to Plus/Gold.
     
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  30. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    I think I was clear in making a specific objection to a specific part of your argument to @fatkid. Not spending several posts to make a point I already agreed with in the first place. :rolleyes:

    De-listing and shutdowns are inevitable. There's no use denying it by deflecting it as something unique to Nintendo. Whether it matters enough to dictate how you purchase games (and how it compares to the degradation of physical media) is subjective, but it will happen to the PS Store and Microsoft Store.

    As for the other "poor digital delivery practice" of shipping an unfinished game and fixing it up post-release, I don't even need to point to Nintendo-published games or indies as (abundant) exceptions to your rule. Again, only two of my eleven blu-ray PS4 games "[require] a day one patch...and usually many more updates beyond that." The others have received updates, but they are not as critical as the updates are for PCARS1 or PCARS2.

    To remind you, that was the crux of my disagreement with you. I don't know why you've framed my replies to you as something different.
     
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