Course Maker in GT6?

[Grand Prix]

They should just let us draw any layout we want on the topography map, then the game generates the needed road surface and track scenery. They could impose a length limit if they must. How about an option to reverse the layout as well?

 

[Griffith500]

Yeah, that sort of thing is possible with a spline editor:



It says "procedural road", but given the video is about features in a 3D Animation / VFX studio, what they really mean is that the visual appearance of the road is procedural, according to its height, curvature etc. The paths are obviously hand-edited, but that needn't necessarily be the case for us and I'd still like PD to include a random mode if they can make the results more compelling.

The real issue with a hand-made course is its density in terms of graphical load (imagine an entire track made out of those suspension bridge elements, all tightly packed together), and "illegal shapes", reliably controlling self-intersection etc. Micro-management of the scenery was my least favourite part of MNR, so I'd like that to still be procedural (but there's nothing wrong with being able to edit it, within the limitations I just outlined.)

Much of that can be automated, but it's extra effort that could be, say, "put into the Premiums", or something.

 

[ProjectVRD]

I would just like the option to export the track data to the XMB so I could then upload them to a site for others to download, it is really hard to create a league based on custom tracks with the way it is now. Allowing us to export track data means people can practice on these tracks easier (no need to share and hope all players will download them before sharing the next, and then the next etc)

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

I would just like the option to export the track data to the XMB so I could then upload them to a site for others to download, it is really hard to create a league based on custom tracks with the way it is now. Allowing us to export track data means people can practice on these tracks easier (no need to share and hope all players will download them before sharing the next, and then the next etc)

There is a system like this in the Mario Kart Wii community. However, it's partially against the law, but it is generally a very popular worldwide.

On another note, something like the TrackMania editor would be nice for people who want to make their own track entirely, and just a massive "Random" button for those who don't. For those who don't know much about TrackMania, below is a simple track you can make, followed by one of the extreme ones



^A compilation of Time Trials from simple tracks by a Professional Player.



^One of the hardest tracks ever created. Pretty fun to play on

 

[analog]

I'd love something like the ModNationRacers course editor, easy and clear to use and tons of visual options to create a unique scenery (one thing the GT5 course creator teached me is that scenery is important).
Alongside the aspect of freely creating a track (as opposed to randomly generating and choosing a layout) giving us the opportunity to completely control (and finetune) the outcome, there's also the aspect of having a more personal connection to the track, instead of thinking you're just lucky to have generated a proper one (which can be done with the current system if you experiment a bit).

If this can't be done, at least give us more themes to use and please tone down the PD/GT banners or crappy modelled crowds, if I drive along a Tuscan themed road I generated I want to think I'm driving on a Tuscan road, not a rally stage.
I do think the course editor in GT5 is one of the single best additions however, without it I would be bored with the limited amount of tracks included a long time ago, one major downside (apart from the others I already mentioned) I've experienced recently when restoring my gamesave onto a new PS3 is that my previously created tracks I've come to know and love are lost forever and with how the system works, there's absolutely no way to try and recreate them.
So I'm back experimenting and hopefully get 'lucky' finding some proper new ones to replace them.

 

[Zuku]

There really should be a Poll for this asking if you want it the ModnationRacers course maker I'm all for that I never got to play the game, but did play the demo, and it was fun creating courses in it.

Like most have said we need many more themes, and the objects to put within these racetrack creations. That's what made it boring GT5 it was a welcome addition, but I could tell it was an afterthought like many other additions as well.

 

[TokoTurismo]

The course maker was PD's first time having. So hopefully it'll become better in GT6, and like Modnation Racers track maker.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Yeah, I would like a "track creator" and not a "track generator".

 

[Griffith500]

The course maker was PD's first time having. So hopefully it'll become better in GT6, and like Modnation Racers track maker.

Yes, hopefully. 👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't see a full-blown circuit editor working in GT6. Not unless it's on the PS4, and even that would depend on the console's abilities.

Perhaps as a step up from what appeared in GT5, Polyphony could implement something similar to the Google Maps Pedometer. You would receive a large area (maybe about 50 square kilometres) criss-crossed with roads. This would only appear in two dimensions, so it would not strain the system. You would then get to choose the route the circuit takes by marking points on the map. Once you have completed a loop that is within a set circuit length and chosen the background, the game would then render it into a racing circuit.

 

[Tavilha]

No course maker, thank you

 

[Griffith500]

I can't see a full-blown circuit editor working in GT6. Not unless it's on the PS4, and even that would depend on the console's abilities.

Perhaps as a step up from what appeared in GT5, Polyphony could implement something similar to the Google Maps Pedometer. You would receive a large area (maybe about 50 square kilometres) criss-crossed with roads. This would only appear in two dimensions, so it would not strain the system. You would then get to choose the route the circuit takes by marking points on the map. Once you have completed a loop that is within a set circuit length and chosen the background, the game would then render it into a racing circuit.

I honestly don't see how that is any different; you still have the same level of control over complexity and resources (from the developer's perspective) in either case. The only difference is, with the "full" editor, the player will bump up against seemingly arbitrary limits and will have to get used to those, whereas they will be implicit / explicit in the "predefined-map" method, so to speak. If both are generating scenery on the fly, both are dependent on algorithmically controlling scene complexity, which means both methods will potentially be boring to look at / run inconsistently.

I don't personally expect a full-on MNR-type deal, either, but I do expect the level of control to be increased over what we currently have, whilst still retaining the openness. I don't think PD want to constrain the feature by having only a small section of pre-made road layouts to choose from. Although, if they could author a high-quality area for, say, free-roaming purposes (and for plotting your own courses on; also autocross editor for any track) in addition to a more open course creator, that would be close to ideal, I think.

 

[diegorborges]

Just add point-to-point, more flexibility and control... time/weather change for all themes, and add 10+ themes = WIN

 

[A_Higher_Place]

If they gave us pre-made sceneries and let us shape the corners, straights and elevation ourselves that would be great. We should also be able to place pre-made bridges and starting grids, and other landmarks.

 

[avens]

First thing to be considered is most probably PD won't implement a perfect track editor due to potential legal issues (recreating real life tracks and locations). Companies don't have balls anymore.

With that said, I don't expect much.

 

[analog]

First thing to be considered is most probably PD won't implement a perfect track editor due to potential legal issues (recreating real life tracks and locations). Companies don't have balls anymore.

ModNationRacers does have an almost perfect track editor and I never heard they suffered from legal issues, whether it's an arcade game or sim doesn't matter, legal issues are legal issues and don't differentiate between physics or visual style.

 

[avens]

It's a business decision, not technical. There are plenty of track and map editors in other games. If a company decides to include a good one then it's their choice.

Thing is I'd bet money on that GT6's editor will be subpar. PD is not the type of company that takes the slightest risk, whereas others go overboard (lfs for example).

 

[analog]

It's a business decision, not technical. There are plenty of track and map editors in other games. If a company decides to include a good one then it's their choice.

You first argue one thing and when I respond to it you argue it's due to something completely different, it all becomes pretty clear now though, thanks.

 

[avens]

I obviously knew about that game's editor. It is on this very thread....

 

[another_jakhole]

ModNation Racers's track editor won't even be possible on the PS4. By then, GT6/7 will be way too graphically superior for that possibility. I thought that was obvious.

Yeah, I would like a "track creator" and not a "track generator".

I hope it can be a mixture of both. I want to be able to generate a track quickly enough, then be able to fine tune it some and in separate, specifically chosen sections. It would obviously help to speed the process up and for people like me, who don't know completely what makes a track good, to have a amateur/beginners process so it feels more welcoming.

Basically, have it so that you can create a track from scratch and precisely choose all that's possible right off the bat, or have it be like the way I explained above. It wouldn't even need to be labeled "For Beginners" since it's more of a way to speed up the whole process and more efficiently for a lot of people.

 

[analog]

I obviously knew about that game's editor. It is on this very thread....

Then you already knew the legal issues you brought up were irrelevant then.

ModNation Racers's track editor won't even be possible on the PS4. By then, GT6/7 will be way too graphically superior for that possibility. I thought that was obvious.

Forgive me my ignorance perhaps but why is it possible in ModNationRacers on the PS3? I don't expect it to offer all the options as in MNR but something like it, albeit far more basic or essential perhaps couldn't work on current hardware (something to do with all the other content?)?

 

[avens]

They aren't irrelevant as every company has to consider them before adding an editor. Google can help, because this is not me theorizing but an issue that made it to mass media about several other games.

 

[Zuku]

ModNation Racers's track editor won't even be possible on the PS4. By then, GT6/7 will be way too graphically superior for that possibility. I thought that was obvious.


I hope it can be a mixture of both. I want to be able to generate a track quickly enough, then be able to fine tune it some and in separate, specifically chosen sections. It would obviously help to speed the process up and for people like me, who don't know completely what makes a track good, to have a amateur/beginners process so it feels more welcoming.

Basically, have it so that you can create a track from scratch and precisely choose all that's possible right off the bat, or have it be like the way I explained above. It wouldn't even need to be labeled "For Beginners" since it's more of a way to speed up the whole process and more efficiently for a lot of people.

Okay that first part either doesn't make any sense what so ever or I might be reading it wrong.

 

[analog]

They aren't irrelevant as every company has to consider them before adding an editor. Google can help, because this is not me theorizing but an issue that made it to mass media about several other games.

All I'm saying is that if a game like ModNationRacers can do it (and maybe they've implemented something which makes creating an existing track impossible somehow, although I doubt it) then the same applies for GT.

 

[avens]

lfs rips off real life cars without licensing, but that doesn't mean PD will do the same.

Rfactor2 is all about modifying the game while not caring the slightest bit about legal issues, but they do it. Doesn't mean the GT series will get complete customization.

If someone starts killing people that doesn't mean you are entitled to do it.

 

[analog]

lfs rips off real life cars without licensing, but that doesn't mean PD will do the same. Rfactor2 is all about modifying the game while not caring the slightest bit about legal issues, but they do it.

Probably because the cars in MNR aren't meant to be real cars, just cartoon versions or a parody of existing cars for which I think there are different laws or rules applying than the need to obtain a license, since they don't pretend it's the real thing and they don't name it as such.

Modding an existing PC game is done by individuals and therefor games like Rfactor don't need a license for each modded car since they don't control that aspect and which might indeed be technically illegal (don't know).

If someone starts killing people that doesn't mean you are entitled to do it.

Okay, thanks for reminding me I don't waste time again thinking I'm having a mature discussion.

 

[avens]

A rip off is a rip off no matter if the name is different. It's not like it is legal that I start selling an imitation of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" and put it a different name, even if I copy just a part or do it as a tribute without getting a permission first (led zeppelin). Maybe I won't get sued but it's a risk nonetheless.

Have you played lfs? all cars are a blatant copy of a real life counterpart. Less than 10% of them are licensed, and can get sued anytime.

Tracks in a track editor are made by individuals. Companies can get in trouble if they provide them the tools to do it, and that's why nowadays big games don't have good integrated track/level/song editors.
Just like in the led zeppelin example, they decided to rip off songs and made it to the top with them, but that doesn't mean it is legal so other bands don't do that because of risks involved.

And as you said, you don't know. You are discussing about things you have absolutely no clue, so why you are on it in first place. It's like a plumber discussing with a doctor about a diagnosis he didn't like.

 

[analog]

It's like a plumber discussing with a doctor about a diagnosis he didn't like.

Yeah, tell me about it.....

 

[another_jakhole]

Okay that first part either doesn't make any sense what so ever or I might be reading it wrong.

The reason why the track editor in ModNation Racers is possible is because of how not amazingly detailed the graphics (and a whole lot of other factors that I won't be able to explain) are. With LittleBigPlanet, that kind of level editing wouldn't be possible if it was Metal Gear. Some people, not analog, expect GT5 and future GT's to be able to handle ModNation Racer's track editor taking into account all that's possible to do with it.

Forgive me my ignorance perhaps but why is it possible in ModNationRacers on the PS3? I don't expect it to offer all the options as in MNR but something like it, albeit far more basic or essential perhaps couldn't work on current hardware (something to do with all the other content?)?

Well, that. If GT had it exactly the way MNR has it, it wouldn't be possible.

The YouTube replay uploader was taken out of GT5, because it took too long to...do what it needs to do. If THAT was a problem, I guess you can imagine why it'd be impossible to have MNR's track editor in a game like GT5 that's as graphically taxing on the PS3 as it already is. GT4 on the PS3 with MNR's track editor is a whole lot more possible.

I can't elaborate on the technical side of it. There are a lot of other people here that can though.

 

[ProjectVRD]

They aren't irrelevant as every company has to consider them before adding an editor. Google can help, because this is not me theorizing but an issue that made it to mass media about several other games.

A track editor is not illegal no matter how complex, no court cases will be brought upon PD or Sony if somebody made a replica track. It has been tried several times before, all failed to even make a court room because the judges instantly threw them out as the tracks were not being made by company and to try and ban a track editor is in contravention of the law surrounding the right to innovation under the W.I.P.O Agreement which is signed by over 150 nations.

IF Sony and PD decide not to include a better track editor, then it is because they cannot be bothered to develop one. Legal issues will not factor in their decision.