"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[Groundfish]

All this talk of forward predicted cars makes me wonder how I can race so often wheel to wheel and not experience issues.
I’ve seen one red bar guy whose car teleports, but that’s maybe once a blue moon...

Re the mini it’s a 200 hp mini. It actually is a hoot once you start to get it working a little.
You can’t ask the front tires to sustain heavy lateral load and floor it lol.
Plus the weight transfer can be used to maximize mechanical grip.
I’ve not mastered the car, it is a difficult car, but imo don’t write it off until you get some idea how to use it.
It’s NOT point and shoot. I’ve only managed I think 27.4 but optimal is another 3/4 second faster, very tough to put that lap together, very tough.
Edit wheel user

 

[Groundfish]

dp

 

[thee hawklord]

Had to test that 4C. Nope could not match my gt86 time.
Put few more laps with toyota
1:16.190 BB2



small brake input helps this car to turn in..

A question please about Daily Race C.
Tire: Racing: Medium
In Pit Regulation - Mandatory Tires at Pit Stop: Racing: Hard. Does this mean you have to start race on the Mediums as I Think? Yeah I don't race much on line and heard other drivers in lobbies saying they gonna start with hards, I'm a little confused. Thanks.

 

[cosme]

As I participate in dailies only from time to time I was wondering how true were statements like "oh man, not THIS track again".

So I took the liberty of copy-pasting info from kudosprime into an excel file to find out the most common tracks and car categories.

Disclaimer - the info for some earlier weeks of 2018 was unavailable on kudosprime, so the data is actually for the period starting 13th June 2018 and till last Sunday (I did this last week and didn't add current dailies, but it shouldn't affect the results that much).

So, without further ado, here are the rankings, with numbers representing how many times the track/car were featured during the selected period.

Most frequent tracks

Most frequent tracks of 2018

Most frequent tracks of 2019

Most frequent car categories

Most frequent track+car combo

So, what do you think? Any surprises?

I also uploaded the rest of the data to google drive, so feel free to have a look. I opened the file for everyone who has the link, but in case there is an issue with access, let me know.

Would be fun to collect the info at the end of this year as well, because for now 2020 numbers doesn't tell much.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

All this talk of forward predicted cars makes me wonder how I can race so often wheel to wheel and not experience issues.
I’ve seen one red bar guy whose car teleports, but that’s maybe once a blue moon...

Predictive algorithms can work very well when the jitter is kept to a minimum. Stable lag is much easier to handle than variable lag, hence one red bar connection is not the same as another and even green connections can show stop motion behavior. You are already trained to race with stable lag, the display lag on your tv. Even with that at a minimum there's still at least a 60ms delay between your inputs and seeing the result on screen.

One bar connections are also rated as one bar for other reasons than lag. The game tests 5 parameters (unknown what they actually are) and if it's not satisfied with one or more your rating drops. Plenty one bar connections drive better than 2 or 3 bar connections. Checking the network quality of someone after a race gives skewed results as well when they use a vpn. A 1 bar connection teleporting over the screen reporting 16ms ping, that's only to the vpn server they were using.

Anyway that's why there's plenty forgiveness in small bumps now to make wheel to wheel racing possible and stop the complaints of getting penalties for non observable rubs. The sniff a bumper or door and get penalty stuff we had last year. There is likely also a threshold in the system to limit minor collision effects. Sometimes it feels as if you intersected another car at some points without a collision registering, and sometimes when you look at the replay it seems like the boundary boxes are wrong and you get a penalty while there was always a foot of air between the cars.

Last week had a lot of 'wobbly' cars, many races with yellow and orange connections. It could also depend on the time of day what mood the server and general internet stability is in.

 

[Groundfish]

Predictive algorithms can work very well when the jitter is kept to a minimum. Stable lag is much easier to handle than variable lag, hence one red bar connection is not the same as another and even green connections can show stop motion behavior. You are already trained to race with stable lag, the display lag on your tv. Even with that at a minimum there's still at least a 60ms delay between your inputs and seeing the result on screen.

One bar connections are also rated as one bar for other reasons than lag. The game tests 5 parameters (unknown what they actually are) and if it's not satisfied with one or more your rating drops. Plenty one bar connections drive better than 2 or 3 bar connections. Checking the network quality of someone after a race gives skewed results as well when they use a vpn. A 1 bar connection teleporting over the screen reporting 16ms ping, that's only to the vpn server they were using.

Anyway that's why there's plenty forgiveness in small bumps now to make wheel to wheel racing possible and stop the complaints of getting penalties for non observable rubs. The sniff a bumper or door and get penalty stuff we had last year. There is likely also a threshold in the system to limit minor collision effects. Sometimes it feels as if you intersected another car at some points without a collision registering, and sometimes when you look at the replay it seems like the boundary boxes are wrong and you get a penalty while there was always a foot of air between the cars.

Last week had a lot of 'wobbly' cars, many races with yellow and orange connections. It could also depend on the time of day what mood the server and general internet stability is in.

Yeah, I mean I just don’t ‘get’ an algorithm forward predicting my braking point in particular though.
Frequently I follow cars closely (on my end) with no observable negative results to either car. I’ve never had complaints from other players like you hit me when it didn’t appear so on my end...
My pings stable but about 90 ms.
I just don’t ‘get’ it
I probably never will, and that’s ok. I mean we have all raced dodgy connection guy and that’s annoying I get that.
I wonder if all these issues are a reason PD seems to want 120 or 240 FPS on PS5?
Maybe more FPS could help all this stuff including pens? Tbh I’ve no idea...

 

[KosmoKazi]

This happened in my last race in Monza, WTF?

It's happened to me before too, at the Race C at Brands Hatch a couple of months ago was last time.

 

[bone_tone]

Forza Horizon 4

A question please about Daily Race C.
Tire: Racing: Medium
In Pit Regulation - Mandatory Tires at Pit Stop: Racing: Hard. Does this mean you have to start race on the Mediums as I Think? Yeah I don't race much on line and heard other drivers in lobbies saying they gonna start with hards, I'm a little confused. Thanks.

You can start on hards or mediums, but you must use both types at least once in the race

 

[KosmoKazi]

Ahem.....cough cough a "friend" .............cough..... told me......... ahem............. about this ....... cough ahem cough cough...

Tried to be a smartass and start at the back on hards, when race starts go straight into pits to change on mediums (before you cross startline) and do the whole race on mediums - GENIUS!

Ummmmmm, until you drive straight through the pits and come out 10 seconds behind last place on same hards you started with...

Ahem... like I say, a friend told me about this, ahem, cough cough.....

LOL I tried that trick when at Brands Hatch a couple of months ago, to throw off the Hards, and race on the M and S for the rest of Race C, but yeah, pits are closed until the end of lap 1!

 

[ferreira]

Tire temp.. if you do warm up and swing side to side to heat them you car goes more straight before countdown in the race so apparently tire temps transfer from warm-up.

Wait, what?!?!

The warm-up actually warms the tyres and carries over to the start of the race?? This is big news to me. PD really need to do something about the tyre indicator on the HUD and make tyre temps more obvious. I've never seen tyre temps mentioned anywhere in GTS that I was beginning to think it was a myth when people talked about it.

I haven't touched GTS in a while and thought I was losing my mind, wondering why my car wouldn't brake, turn or accelerate at the start of a race! It would also explain why T1 at Monza has been such a bloodbath!

 

[Famine]

A question please about Daily Race C.
Tire: Racing: Medium
In Pit Regulation - Mandatory Tires at Pit Stop: Racing: Hard. Does this mean you have to start race on the Mediums as I Think? Yeah I don't race much on line and heard other drivers in lobbies saying they gonna start with hards, I'm a little confused. Thanks.

No. You only have to use each of the mandatory tyres - which are hard and medium in this race - once in the race.

 

[ststav01]

Wait, what?!?!

The warm-up actually warms the tyres and carries over to the start of the race?? This is big news to me. PD really need to do something about the tyre indicator on the HUD and make tyre temps more obvious. I've never seen tyre temps mentioned anywhere in GTS that I was beginning to think it was a myth when people talked about it.

I haven't touched GTS in a while and thought I was losing my mind, wondering why my car wouldn't brake, turn or accelerate at the start of a race! It would also explain why T1 at Monza has been such a bloodbath!

Seen such posts and assumptions from lots of people, however, I still don't believe this is true. PD has never indicated anything about tyre temps (aside from a link in the previous page, stating that they will turn red, but as someone already mentioned - the only time they turn red is when you spin) and this is what really annoys me. I think "heating" your tyres along with the "dirty tyre" effect, right after you go off track are just placebo effects, but I might be actually wrong - anyway, haven't seen any real proof or evidence that swerving my car during warm up affect my handling and I still find it hard to believe that there is no information about this... again I might be wrong about it, but any videos/proofs that there is a difference will be welcomed

 

[barak181]

Seen such posts and assumptions from lots of people, however, I still don't believe this is true. PD has never indicated anything about tyre temps (aside from a link in the previous page, stating that they will turn red, but as someone already mentioned - the only time they turn red is when you spin) and this is what really annoys me. I think "heating" your tyres along with the "dirty tyre" effect, right after you go off track are just placebo effects, but I might be actually wrong - anyway, haven't seen any real proof or evidence that swerving my car during warm up affect my handling and I still find it hard to believe that there is no information about this... again I might be wrong about it, but any videos/proofs that there is a difference will be welcomed

Closest I've seen to confirmation from PD about dirty tires was in the karting Nations race. Having full view of the tires I could see them dirty up when I went off-track and eventually clean themselves off. Was it just an animation? Possibly but I do feel like there is a difference in grip with dirty tires.

Cold tires I noticed the first time I played this game. (I hadn't played a racing title since GT3.) When I went looking for forums to ask if cold tires were a thing in this game, Google immediately led me to threads already discussing tire temps. I got my answer before I ever asked the question.

In my time playing this game, it's apparent that PD prefers to obfuscate things. No confirmation from them about tire temps doesn't mean much, they neither confirm nor deny much of anything.

 

[crusselz]

Really enjoyed race C so far this week. Given, a few races have gone terribly.

But once you get in to a rhythm, there's a really nice flow to the track, with the high speed corners.

Guess the biggest issue I've noticed so far, is it takes a while to warm up the hard tyres. Lapping around 1:19's to 1:20's. Could just be me. Then changing on to the medium compound and straight away in the 18's.

Some quick guys out there. Last race, I was on the mediums, did a 1:17.9. All the while falling behind the car in P1. Only to realise, that he was on the hard tyres and did a fastest lap 1:17.5. Needless to say, P2 was as good as I could manage.

 

[MaxAttack]

So, while my elite mercenary stacks me some credits via the LH challenge, I've registered a US account for some racing in NA.

Did a couple of race As, forced into the mini by not having any racecars. It's an odd combo, and down in E/B starter lobbies I went from the back to 3rd and then 4th in the second race. Wheeeeeeelspiiiinn. It's more fun than I thought it might be but the banked corners are a little confusing to navigate especially in bottom rank with everyone taking a different line.

Copped an NSX gr.4 to check out the madness of race C and it didn't disappoint, qualified 10th with a sloppy couple warmup laps, two Brazilian TTs in front of me.

Saw the lot - wall penalties, punts, sideswipes, weaving and blocking. I went 10H/5M and came home 6th, so much contact and jostling with boisterous Brazilians and a poor US guy in the M4 who seemed to have invoked their wrath.

It's hilarious but no place for proper racing - expect nothing but absolute chaos. The NSX felt tidy and easy to handle. Nice to be back on track.

 

[djidane57]

As I participate in dailies only from time to time I was wondering how true were statements like "oh man, not THIS track again".

So I took the liberty of copy-pasting info from kudosprime into an excel file to find out the most common tracks and car categories.

Disclaimer - the info for some earlier weeks of 2018 was unavailable on kudosprime, so the data is actually for the period starting 13th June 2018 and till last Sunday (I did this last week and didn't add current dailies, but it shouldn't affect the results that much).

So, without further ado, here are the rankings, with numbers representing how many times the track/car were featured during the selected period.

Most frequent tracks

Most frequent tracks of 2018

Most frequent tracks of 2019

Most frequent car categories

Most frequent track+car combo

So, what do you think? Any surprises?

I also uploaded the rest of the data to google drive, so feel free to have a look. I opened the file for everyone who has the link, but in case there is an issue with access, let me know.

Would be fun to collect the info at the end of this year as well, because for now 2020 numbers doesn't tell much.

not a single Alsace daily race in the last two years , of course Suzuka and Tsukuba are wayyy overused , and the rare times a GR1 daily race is live, the fuel/tyre multipliers always favors the toyotas , geez i know PD is a Japanese company , i know they have ties with toyota but still

 

[Tea_Leaves]

not a single Alsace daily race in the last two years

There was back in June 2019 with Gr.2. Fun race and I'm surprised it hasn't returned since.

What's worse is only 2 races at Sainte-Croix. When the track first released and appeared in daily races, I thought I'd see it often considering there's 6 different layouts, it aesthetically looks beautiful and was well-received by the community. But nope, only once since, lol.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yeah, I mean I just don’t ‘get’ an algorithm forward predicting my braking point in particular though.
Frequently I follow cars closely (on my end) with no observable negative results to either car. I’ve never had complaints from other players like you hit me when it didn’t appear so on my end...
My pings stable but about 90 ms.
I just don’t ‘get’ it
I probably never will, and that’s ok. I mean we have all raced dodgy connection guy and that’s annoying I get that.
I wonder if all these issues are a reason PD seems to want 120 or 240 FPS on PS5?
Maybe more FPS could help all this stuff including pens? Tbh I’ve no idea...

I don't get it either that you don't see it in your races

Maybe I'm more prone to what to look for. It doesn't predict your braking point, which is why laggy cars seem to jump slightly backwards when they slam on the brakes, stall a bit mid corner (delayed throttle input) and initially seem to have sudden extra acceleration before it's smooth again. They also turn in a bit sharper than seems possible since sudden steering input also arrives late on your console.

Or maybe you always have the pleasure to drive against people that gradually brake, steer and accelerate

More FPS doesn't matter. 60 fps currently is about 17 ms per frame, while overall response time between controller and screen is about 60 ms. Going to 120 fps will reduce the render time to 8 ms. That shaves at most 16 ms off the 60 ms return trip from input to screen.

However that has zero bearing on forward prediction, that's all based on internet connection stability. A stable 90ms ping is fine to race with. However with jitter and sudden lag spikes it can get bad. Suppose your connection stalls for 250ms, right at the time you hit the brakes on Sarthe going 360 kph. Your brake input is now not processed on the other console until your car is already 10 meters further on the track. If you were following another car closely who also started braking on time, he will have received a bump from your car while to you it simply looks like he started braking a bit later and you never had contact.

I've seen a certain A+ driver use this tactic on the Nord. Drive bumper to bumper with 3 bar connection resulting in tiny bumps at the braking zone bumping the car ahead slightly wide to create an opening to overtake. Maybe he's just oblivious to the lag factor and thinks everyone in front of him is a bad driver easily intimidated. To him it never looks like there was contact, and those little bumps don't trigger penalties anymore. It's there, I've called people out on it and they claim they never hit me, yet their car bumped me about a dozen time while they were drafting close behind me. No wonder I can't get away when I get slightly bumped off my line every corner... Slow in, slow out, thanks to all the bumps.

In corners the same, little contact usually doesn't have bad results, but enough to slow the other car down to create an overtake opportunity. Rubbing is racing... However GTS claims to be a contact free sport and really should give both cars some SR deduction for any contact.

 

[NosOsH]

Wait, what?!?!

The warm-up actually warms the tyres and carries over to the start of the race?? This is big news to me. PD really need to do something about the tyre indicator on the HUD and make tyre temps more obvious. I've never seen tyre temps mentioned anywhere in GTS that I was beginning to think it was a myth when people talked about it.

I haven't touched GTS in a while and thought I was losing my mind, wondering why my car wouldn't brake, turn or accelerate at the start of a race! It would also explain why T1 at Monza has been such a bloodbath!

I dont think the warmup actually translates to the conditions at the start of race, they should though. What I think you're actually seeing is that during qualy and warmup, you're driving around with perfect tires (and warmed up) with no fuel weight as well. That's why most people dont get within 1 or even 2 seconds of their best hot lap times in q or in race.

This might be changing though, after the update, at least in fia races. Not sure exactly how though yet.

 

[05XR8]

Only things is, Suzuka is a Honda circuit. I don't see Hondas being used often in this game. I used to use them plenty, when I started the game. Haven't used any since the Civic Type R Time Trial. Not even my favorite S660.

 

[viper al]

@sturk0167 =1:27.560 Excellent lap I'm not even going to try

 

[sturk0167]

@sturk0167 =1:27.560 Excellent lap I'm not even going to try

Thanks. I dropped the time down a little when I switched from TCS 0 to TCS1. 👍
The biggest advantage I saw was that it allowed me to use 2nd gear exiting the hairpin.
Oh, and I also started entering turn 1 from a lower angle.

 

[meekrab]

Seen such posts and assumptions from lots of people, however, I still don't believe this is true. PD has never indicated anything about tyre temps (aside from a link in the previous page, stating that they will turn red, but as someone already mentioned - the only time they turn red is when you spin) and this is what really annoys me. I think "heating" your tyres along with the "dirty tyre" effect, right after you go off track are just placebo effects, but I might be actually wrong - anyway, haven't seen any real proof or evidence that swerving my car during warm up affect my handling and I still find it hard to believe that there is no information about this... again I might be wrong about it, but any videos/proofs that there is a difference will be welcomed

There's definitely a "dirty tire" effect, in that your tires visually look dirty after driving around in the grass. Take the shifter kart or SuperFormula for a lawn mowing expedition and you can see it first hand. Whether it actually lowers grip once you're back on the circuit I have no idea.

 

[Pigems]

There's definitely a "dirty tire" effect, in that your tires visually look dirty after driving around in the grass. Take the shifter kart or SuperFormula for a lawn mowing expedition and you can see it first hand. Whether it actually lowers grip once you're back on the circuit I have no idea.

It does. 👍

 

[meekrab]

It does. 👍

How did you verify?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Seen such posts and assumptions from lots of people, however, I still don't believe this is true. PD has never indicated anything about tyre temps (aside from a link in the previous page, stating that they will turn red, but as someone already mentioned - the only time they turn red is when you spin) and this is what really annoys me. I think "heating" your tyres along with the "dirty tyre" effect, right after you go off track are just placebo effects, but I might be actually wrong - anyway, haven't seen any real proof or evidence that swerving my car during warm up affect my handling and I still find it hard to believe that there is no information about this... again I might be wrong about it, but any videos/proofs that there is a difference will be welcomed

The cold tire and dirty tire effect is very real.

After I come out of the pit (with the same tires yet now fresh) I have to adjust my braking point (ever so slightly) for the first couple turns before getting back in the rhythm. I have also seen plenty people come out of the pits to go off in T1 right after.

The dirty tire effect is even more pronounced. After taking a little detour over the grass you better brake a bit earlier for the next turn. I use it to my advantage when a car in front of me goes wide and takes a little tour over the grass. I close in, and go along their inside in the next turn as they invariably go a bit wide leaving the door open and I can out corner them through the turn.

Definitely not placebo effects, the loss of grip is very real.

 

[deviln3]

Looking for some input on brake balance. What are you guys using for Race B?

When there is no tire wear, what kind of brake balance do you use? I have it set to 0 atm for my porsche.

 

[barak181]

Looking for some input on brake balance. What are you guys using for Race B?

When there is no tire wear, what kind of brake balance do you use? I have it set to 0 atm for my porsche.

BB varies quite a bit car to car and even then it varies some from track to track. Generally for MR cars I set the BB towards the front, however the Porche is more stable than most MR cars. Do a few practice laps and play around with it. If I had to guess -1 maybe?

 

[NosOsH]

Honestly if there is no tire wear i usually try to go bb 0 as I think that nets you the best overall stopping distance. It can depend on car, some mr cars i go -1 or 2 or vice/versa in fr cars if Im trying to calm the tail down or loosen it up, depending on car.
In a no tire wear situation I tend to keep it as close to zero as I can using that logic. That's just my opinion though, some may know better.

Also, i find the handling model pretty stable these days, in the past i would have gonne to more extremes.

 

[Rexracer702]

I've only raced one race this week, at Tokyo. I started 3rd in the 86 on medium tires. After reading some posts here, I gave it a good run, and ended up faster and more consistant than I was in the 4c, so I raced it. I got a good launch, but tapped the wall coming out of the first turn. Not being a blocker, I had a stream of cars come by, and most weren't gentle about it. Once back in the pack, it was pretty brutal. I finished 12th. Tires seemed alot slicker than in practice, and I couldn't maintain corner speeds anywhere near what I did in practice. I think racing here on my alt will be the norm this week. There really are no good passing zones, and if running laps near what's possible (say 17's and even low 18's) there is really no way to pass unless someone makes an error, or you put someone into a wall. So you wait for someone to brush the wall, but top guys usually are "conservative" enough to stay off the walls. Sometimes you'll get clean guys up front, and it will be lots of manuevering but no passing. Most often you'll get the bump and pass. If you're lucky, you just go a bit wide and loose one spot. Maybe a "sorry" after the race. Other Tokyo layouts are better for racing.