Danoff
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I think I'd rather not list them on the public area of the forum.
Depression and Anxiety Thread
- Thread starter JohnBM01
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I think I'd rather not list them on the public area of the forum.
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Danoff
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Yea it's not impossible for him to find Mrs. Right. But he has a bunch of really low percentile requirements. The venn diagram doesn't leave a lot of overlap. Recently whenever he has stumbled upon that magic girl who fits that description (and she by some chance happens to be single), she's not interested in him.
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The point I was trying to make earlier is that I let go of any "requirements". He should learn to not focus on these requirements to improve himself and his lifestyle. He should really try to broaden his look. If you are gifted an Mclaren 650s, how disappointed would he be if his "requirements" were a Ferrari 488. Would he just sell the 650S just to get that 488?
It is very difficult to give advice solely on a few posts. I don't know the guy, I don't his background, I have no idea what he has been through, if he has traumas, etc ... .
One need to spend time with a person, get to know this guy and try to figure out what is wrong with him mentally/psychologically.
General statement: most of the time there is an underlying problem, which is burried deep in the subconcious. If so, this has to reveal itself before it can be dealt with.
It think, and I can be completely wrong, that he has too much self pity. He has to let go of feeling sorry for himself and get over the fact that he is alone. I also think that he is, as @PocketZeven trying too hard to find a soulmate. He will radiate this and girls will feel this and react appropriate (negatively).
Feeling sorry for yourself will make you look kind of weak and that is what girls don't like. They like guy whom are very confident and self-conscious and still in touch with their feelings. A tough, confident but still a good guy so to speak.
Do you mean that he's picky when it comes to girls? If so, it could well be that he's not pleased with himself and this will related to being picky when it comes to other people. He needs to accept himself for what he is and start to like himself. If that is the problem of course.
Like yourself and other will start to like you.
So:
- Don't try too hard and let it go.
- Soul searching and try to find out if there is an underlying psychological problem
- Be more confident
- Don't be so picky
- Work on your own self-image
What I said above probably BS but that's how I see it.
As I said, it is nearly impossible to give advice when you don't know anything about a certain person, his life etc ... . One actually need to be a psychologist to find out what is wrong and how to solve the problem.
Danoff
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Ok, but back to the original question. How do I help him? What should I do for him? I recognize all of the elements of depression in him (and so does he). It's tough to get him to leave his house, it's tough to get him to engage. Everything about his life reminds him of his depression and sends him into a downward spiral. I've tried to talk him through it, but my go-to to help people is really to find the underlying cause and help them see an alternative. He's a bright guy and he knows the problem (and he knows me well). He makes arguments for why he should be depressed that I can't really refute.
Do I just leave him to it? He's seen a psychologist, he's gotten meds, he's tried dating services... all I seem to be able to do is distract him, briefly, with a chat about cars or a visit to the track.
You can't help him unless he is willing to help himself. Generally speaking he has to aknowledge what his problem is - which seems to be the case and do something about it.
As long as he get stuck in the same thought process, you won't be able to help him. As I said, I don't know the guy, I don't know what his psychological problem is but he has to change his mindset. Whatever you do, whatever you say to him doesn't matter as long as his mindset doesn't change. He has to turn a mental switch.
I don't know if you two are always talking about his problem or not. You could try to get his mind of his problems, try to find things he is interested in and talk about that. Also do stuff actively. Go out, mingle, make fun. Basically take his mind off his problems.
If you do talk to him, say the things I wrote about in my previous post. Say that he has to stop caring, stop being desperate because that has the opposite effect of what he wants. Basically ***** everything and ***** all the girls. Tell him not to dwell on things and just let go and have fun.
Knowing your problem and doing nothing about it doesn't do sh****. Doing something about your problem is the solution.
So:
- Take his mind of his problems and find some common interests and talk/do/enjoy these things.
- Tell him to let go, to say ***** everything, I'm going to enjoy myself
- Tell him not to try so hard. Stop being so desperate.
- Ask him if he likes himself (self-pity) and what he doesn't like about himself and try to change that (he), by starting to think positive about himself.
- Talk to him as a "half glass full" kind of guy. In other words be positive but also truthful.
- Tell him not to look back but concetrate on the future. Knowing your past problems is a good thing but dwell on these problems, be emotional about the past problems is a big "no, no".
- Let him do relaxation and breathing excersises. Practice mindfulness.
- If he doesn't work out, tell him to start jogging. It is scientifically proven that jogging is a very powerful natural antidepressant.
- Tell him to consider girls as "one of the guys" and not a potential mate (correct spelling?). Treat girls as a friend and be casual about it.
I have no idea if these things will help.
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To be honest, I've typed out a couple of responses to your post @Danoff . It really is a tough situation for your friend to be in, and I can relate to it quite a bit, it happened to me earlier in life and is a good chunk of the reason I find myself at nearly 40 with a well serviced 20 year old alcohol problem. I didn't want to offer dating advice because as you say, he needs to solve the problem, but to be honest, I'm struggling to find a positive way to answer. It's not easy to accept something that is making your life miserable.
Put simply, he's got to reach a point where he wants to reject his sadness more than he feels he needs companionship. An all or nothing approach to getting (or not having) what he really wants, will most likely end up in the nothing scenario, which is surely much worse than accepting that the gold medal is out of reach, but the silver medal might be there for the taking.
Sadly, I don't think people can flip this switch themselves... in my experience things have to get to a point where your survival mechanism kicks in before this change can happen in a persons approach to things. The way I see it, the desire for companionship exists in humans at a very deep level - it may be over-ridden by more conscious thoughts, but it's still there - and IMHO, it needs something at a similiarly basal level to counteract it (i.e. self-preservation and our survival mechanism).
Depression isn't a place where you live, it's something trying to invade the place you live - for me that's the difference between the downward slight into self-pity, and crawling out of and taking control - it's feeling the threat of it - and then being inspired to fight against it. The out come of that is working harder for other personal fulfilment, and therefore (hopefully) and increased quality of life.
Failin' all that. I'd recommend drinkin' whiskey and listenin' to Sloe Gin by Joe Bonamassa.... and maybe some magic mushrooms to free the mind.
I'm probably talking bollocks now.
Put simply, he's got to reach a point where he wants to reject his sadness more than he feels he needs companionship. An all or nothing approach to getting (or not having) what he really wants, will most likely end up in the nothing scenario, which is surely much worse than accepting that the gold medal is out of reach, but the silver medal might be there for the taking.
Sadly, I don't think people can flip this switch themselves... in my experience things have to get to a point where your survival mechanism kicks in before this change can happen in a persons approach to things. The way I see it, the desire for companionship exists in humans at a very deep level - it may be over-ridden by more conscious thoughts, but it's still there - and IMHO, it needs something at a similiarly basal level to counteract it (i.e. self-preservation and our survival mechanism).
Depression isn't a place where you live, it's something trying to invade the place you live - for me that's the difference between the downward slight into self-pity, and crawling out of and taking control - it's feeling the threat of it - and then being inspired to fight against it. The out come of that is working harder for other personal fulfilment, and therefore (hopefully) and increased quality of life.
Failin' all that. I'd recommend drinkin' whiskey and listenin' to Sloe Gin by Joe Bonamassa.... and maybe some magic mushrooms to free the mind.
I'm probably talking bollocks now.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
One important thing is to not give up on him. Without someone making an effort he would spiral into even a deeper depression. Just keep trying and let him see even you have hope for him and hopefully he will see it in himself as well. But Like the @kikie said it is much better to find out the underlying problem. What drugs, psychologists etc. do is just treat the symptoms. The best way to help him is to try to find a solution to his problem. Him being depressed is only a symptom. I suspect he convinced himself he wants this kind of woman. Perhaps he should realise sooner then later that what he wants isnt neccesarily what he needs.
Danoff
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I think you're putting it right. Him finding ways to be happy has to be not about someone else. It's too much to put on anyone else, and it's not their responsibility anyway. My wife has been saying for some time, he needs to work through it before he can find someone.
I don't know how to help him work through it. Having had a view of depression, I have to say that I'm not sure there's much anyone from the outside can do except care. He's so terrible at making himself happy, I feel like he needs to take a course in it or something. "Ok bud, here's what you're doing wrong. You're trying to extract happiness out of this part of life over here, but you should have been trying in this other place".
I was thinking about it the other day, and deeper than his lack of companionship is his particular approach to happiness. This guy extracts happiness from achievement, and he knows that about himself and is comfortable with it. So, without going in to too much detail, it looks kinda like accomplishing a certain amount at work. Owning a particular item. Being financially independent. Finishing in the top whatever in a marathon. Climbing a certain mountain. Etc. Even for something like snowboarding, the approach is to be able to do every run on the mountain. Not to enjoy the run he's on. So when he's done every run he can find, the snowboard collects dust and he never goes back - because what's the point?
The goal is never enjoyment. It's to have done something. He sets these tasks in front of himself, and he genuinely enjoys busting his rear and being uncomfortable and miserable while trying to achieve them. And then when he's done he has that achievement in his hip pocket for the rest of his life. And life is a series of those things for him, an accumulation of badges.
The problem with that is that he's starting to realize that his extraction of enjoyment out of that kinda depends on other people, and people don't really care where you finished in a marathon. So, for example, he works himself into great shape to run a particular marathon that he has set his sights on. And he trains for a while, and he goes and does it. Yay! He did it... ok but unless you keep it up you're going to get out of shape again. And nobody cares that you did it. And he doesn't keep it up and loses the fitness, and nobody cares, and the event is all but erased. And he goes through this cycle over and over trying to extract fulfillment out of having done something in the past. But it's not working for him.
He's terrible, probably the worst person I know, at living in a particular moment enjoying himself. Always planning, always happy to be uncomfortable now on the basis of perceived enjoyment later. It's a particularly bad arrangement for someone who extracts happiness out of having achieved things relative to other people, to be lacking people (especially person) to share it with. His whole style of being happy is dependent on NOT being alone.
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I guess he needs to take on the idea that the idea of him+woman=happiness, just isnt correct. He really should go back and really think clearly what he wants and what makes him happy. If he really wants a girlfriend he should just keep dating and especially try to open up to women that arent according to his requirements.
Men often (subconsiously) want to find a woman that have characteristics of their own mother. It can become quite masochistic when your own mother is a terrible person or even an abuser.
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@Danoff Unfortunately I cannot offer a great deal of advice other than to say that he sounds like he needs to keep putting himself in situations where he is likely to meet new people - not so much pubs and clubs (though that does work to an extent), but may be night school, church, volunteering, sports, clubs, societies, arts/crafts groups, therapy groups etc. I used to have a good friend who sounded very similar to your friend and he suffered from depression - unfortunately he fixated on meeting someone as a solution and was suicidal for a while when it didn't seem to be working out. Eventually he did meet someone, however, through his main hobby (music, gigs etc.) and they quickly got engaged, then married, and then had a kid (which all happened in about 6 months flat... well, not the birth, but you know what I mean...). Alas, my fears that their marriage was based on shaky foundations was quickly realised and they ended up divorcing a few years later - I figured that this could be enough to drive my friend back to his suicidal depression, but amazingly it doesn't seem to bother him much and he now focuses his attentions on his child (albeit his ex has full custody and they live in a different country to him) and he now describes himself as a widower...
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Interesting.
Clearly to anyone outside the situation, the chances of him finding a soulmate are near zero.
Likewise, simply pointing this out (even if he were to accept it) isn't going to make him less depressed. Depression isn't rational.
Since he's so results focused, I wonder if you couldn't turn it away from the traditional married-type relationship and more into what he hopes to achieve from that. Instead of the relationship being the goal, make it something further downstream from the relationship.
Does he want kids? Maybe he can get involved with a Scout group or something where he can interact and teach children.
Does he want people that share his interests? There are groups for that, even within the bounds of married-type life.
Is he into *ahem* physical pleasures? There's a number of ways to go about that.
If he's super gung-ho about relationships specifically, I'd suggest the intentional failure method. He seems like someone who responds to challenges, so maybe he can take out four girls in a month with the specific knowledge that they're not going to be right for him and it's going to be anywhere from one date and done to a week long romance. I'm not suggesting that the women should be misled, but there's people out there who are quite happy to go out and meet someone new with no strings attached. He can look at this as "training" if he wishes.
Realistically, if you want to get good at anything the idea of "fail fast and fail often" usually works pretty well. This assumes of course that he's functional enough to actually get out and meet people. If not, he's trapped himself in a lovely little catch 22 and nothing is really going to get him out of that short of him learning to let go.
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I guess another option is something that is jarring enough to break him out of his pattern. There are such things as meditation or silence retreats. You go out to some usually wonderfully peaceful place in the middle of nature, and don't talk to anyone. They feed you, and there are usually some calm activities such as arts or walking, but mostly the idea is to completely disconnect from the "normal" world. For people who are quite goal oriented, it can be rather a shock, and can sometimes be useful to allow one to escape a certain rut that they may have been stuck in.
Mileage may vary, obviously. My father, irrepressable hippy that he his thinks that they're the best thing in the world. Me, already introverted to a fault and who regularly manages to go multiple days without actually speaking to anyone finds them kind of trivial. But maybe that's the sort of thing that might allow him to get some more perspective.
Depression can do a funny thing where it simply sticks an idea in your head and it's very, very difficult to shift it. It's dangerous when that idea is suicidal, but it can easily be damaging when it's something like this idea that all your problems would be solved if you had the ideal partner.
Brrrr 
I was doing very well until two days ago a dentist told me stuff which triggered a serious panic attack. I'm feeling some residual anxiety.
I was planning on starting a basic medical education. I think it is a bad idea considering the things I'm going to learn and find out. More stuff to worry about.
I better start a drone pilot training instead (my helicopter pilot dreams are over
).
I was doing very well until two days ago a dentist told me stuff which triggered a serious panic attack. I'm feeling some residual anxiety.
I was planning on starting a basic medical education. I think it is a bad idea considering the things I'm going to learn and find out. More stuff to worry about.
I better start a drone pilot training instead (my helicopter pilot dreams are over
).
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Maybe. Or maybe you'd find that having a clearer appreciation of the medical mechanisms behind what's going on allows you to worry less. It could go either way.
Most people aren't naturally hypochondriacs, they just rightly fear what they don't know. If you know, then there's less to fear (or your fear becomes rational). I know it doesn't quite work like that, especially with mental illness, but I wouldn't avoid educating yourself for fear that you might learn something worrying. You're worrying already about what you might learn, it can hardly be worse.
If I want to find out, it could be too late. My family doctor and psychiatrist are against it.Maybe. Or maybe you'd find that having a clearer appreciation of the medical mechanisms behind what's going on allows you to worry less. It could go either way.
Most people aren't naturally hypochondriacs, they just rightly fear what they don't know. If you know, then there's less to fear (or your fear becomes rational). I know it doesn't quite work like that, especially with mental illness, but I wouldn't avoid educating yourself for fear that you might learn something worrying. You're worrying already about what you might learn, it can hardly be worse.
- 13,737
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I guess it depends how much you trust their judgement over your own, then.
Personally, I've had some doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists tell me some ridiculous crap. I've had a doctor tell me that all anti-depressants are the same, and that I shouldn't see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I've had a psychologist tell me that I shouldn't see a psychiatrist, and that my description of my experiences and feelings was wrong (!?!). I've had a psychiatrist tell me that I'm a hypochondriac for admitting that I occasionally have fears that there could be something seriously wrong with me, but that I try to put them aside unless there's good evidence to suggest them.
I don't mean to imply that your doctor and psychiatrist are necessarily like the ones I've had, I hope yours are better. But I say this so that you'll understand where my feelings on the matter come from.
My current assessment of the medical profession is that it's full of humans, with all the problems that entails. The biggest problems I've run into have been when they try to argue from authority. The best doctors/psychologists/psychiatrists I've met have been willing to explain the reasoning and methods behind their suggestions, even if it takes quite a long time to do so and even to the point of supplying copies of studies with results that support their treatments.
Obviously I'm a bit gun shy of taking people at their word, so if it was me I'd say as long as they can sit down and explain to you why it would be damaging to learn more to the point that you agree, then sure. If their argument is that they can't explain why to you because it might be damaging if you understood your treatment, or because you wouldn't understand, then find someone who is willing to give you a little more credit for having a brain of your own.
IMO, a doctor should be able to bring you up to speed such that you're able to at least follow the logic as to why any particular treatment or behaviour is positive for you. If they can't, that's a massive red flag.
- 29,588
- Thailand
I don't want to bore anyone with my current situation but I do want to say BE CAREFUL WITH ANTIBIOTICS!
This week I've had my mind in dark places and wondered why my antidepressants weren't working. When I put two and two together a quick Google search showed that some antibiotics can suppress or block SSRIs. I had an ear infection and the doctor gave me some macrolides (I have an allergy to penicillin) and some amphetamine based meds so between the two of them I've been up all night this week cleaning the house while contemplating whether or not it's worth living.
I guess I should have considered the side effects before taking antibiotics, but at least now I know not to.
This week I've had my mind in dark places and wondered why my antidepressants weren't working. When I put two and two together a quick Google search showed that some antibiotics can suppress or block SSRIs. I had an ear infection and the doctor gave me some macrolides (I have an allergy to penicillin) and some amphetamine based meds so between the two of them I've been up all night this week cleaning the house while contemplating whether or not it's worth living.
I guess I should have considered the side effects before taking antibiotics, but at least now I know not to.
- 26,261
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
There was something I was going to post in the NHL 2018-2019 thread, but I felt it was better to discuss it here. So here is an article about one NHL player named Robin Lerher, who suffered from depression:
https://sports.yahoo.com/robin-lehner-opens-addiction-depression-wanted-kill-183516805.html
The most common feeling in regards to depression is feeling like you have no one to turn to. Or at least, feeling like you have nobody to look to or nobody to share your feelings with. More importantly in all of this is trying to deal with both depression and addiction. You are never too young or too old to experience the full impact of both depression and addiction. I know there are times where I feel like on GTPlanet that I don't have as many allies and friends to share issues with. I am mostly reserved for the most part. Still, you need to get any kind of help that is available to you. If you have to go it alone, try as best as you can to deal with your issues without doing something you knowingly will regret.
Life is tough, but hopefully you will make it through. Keep your head up and keep good faith. 👍
https://sports.yahoo.com/robin-lehner-opens-addiction-depression-wanted-kill-183516805.html
The most common feeling in regards to depression is feeling like you have no one to turn to. Or at least, feeling like you have nobody to look to or nobody to share your feelings with. More importantly in all of this is trying to deal with both depression and addiction. You are never too young or too old to experience the full impact of both depression and addiction. I know there are times where I feel like on GTPlanet that I don't have as many allies and friends to share issues with. I am mostly reserved for the most part. Still, you need to get any kind of help that is available to you. If you have to go it alone, try as best as you can to deal with your issues without doing something you knowingly will regret.
Life is tough, but hopefully you will make it through. Keep your head up and keep good faith. 👍
- 5,141
- Nicest part of hell
Shem, do you have any hobbies? I feel depressed at times since I turned 15, what always helps me no matter how bad I feel is spamming myself with things to do. Lately I'd feel really bad if I did not drown my sorrows, fears and feelings of bitterness with excessive computer gaming, building models and lifting weights 15 hours / week. I simply make myself too busy to be depressed, and I am too tired to get those bad thoughts you get when you lay wide wake in your bed. It really works better than any medication or treatment ever invented.
- 29,588
- Thailand
I cycle and swim a lot and try to keep busy. Work keeps me occupied most of the time but that’s also where some of my misery resides.
I’ve upped the dose of my meds and it helped a lot yesterday, I was feeling pretty cheery. There are just certain times when I dwell on things and I know my mind shouldn’t be there but it’s like a void that drags me it.
- 5,141
- Nicest part of hell
Yeah those feelings sound all too familiar.
You always have to keep in mind those feelings will go away to be replaced with more positive, more rational feelings every time. Its only a temporary setback, depression is like weather, sometimes it just rains.I hope you'll be happier soon and your logical, rational thoughts will prevail.
