Destiny: Become Legend (Now with More Iron!)

[Blitz24]

Still trying to figure out what possible nerf was necessary for black hammer. Were people complaining that it had too much ammo? Now the gun is next to useless.

 

[Frizbe]

Still trying to figure out what possible nerf was necessary for black hammer. Were people complaining that it had too much ammo? Now the gun is next to useless.

Yeah it was incredibly satisfying to just sit back and nail the walkers with BH I'm still scratching my head over here the thorn updates are nice but I would take the current state of PVP over this update any day.

 

[DurWinning]

Xur, the troll master, strikes again.

 

[Blitz24]

Yeah it was incredibly satisfying to just sit back and nail the walkers with BH I'm still scratching my head over here the thorn updates are nice but I would take the current state of PVP over this update any day.

The problem is that the update WILL again upset the game's balance. Another weapon will be used and then need to be nerfed. For example, if someone eventually sees the Bad Juju as a "game breaking gun" and creates enough fuss, then that gun will be nerfed.

 

[BAKEMISTER]

The problem is that the update WILL again upset the game's balance. Another weapon will be used and then need to be nerfed. For example, if someone eventually sees the Bad Juju as a "game breaking gun" and creates enough fuss, then that gun will be nerfed.

That would take some mighty convincing for people to see Bad Juju as a game braking gun.

 

[Aphelion]

Reading that trash (pardon the blunt phrasing) makes me all the more happy I don't play anymore.

You're going to nerf a rocket launcher because it's doing too much damange in PvE? A rocket launcher. Doing too much damage.

Unbearably stupid. The entire update is just unbearably stupid.

I don't get it... Why is that unbearably stupid?

 

[drandiiski]

I’m OK with the weapons re-balance patch for the most part. Two things though. Fusions need to be buffed and they are not addressing that. The other thing of course is the Gjallahorn nerf. There are reasons it is the most used weapon for bosses, but nerfing it is stupid. Why not buff other RLs instead and give us alternatives? And since the bosses are bullet sponges and you are nerfing the only weapon that works against them, why compensate somehow? Like reducing their HP or armor a bit?

 

[Aphelion]

I’m OK with the weapons re-balance patch for the most part. Two things though. Fusions need to be buffed and they are not addressing that. The other thing of course is the Gjallahorn nerf. There are reasons it is the most used weapon for bosses, but nerfing it is stupid. Why not buff other RLs instead and give us alternatives? And since the bosses are bullet sponges and you are nerfing the only weapon that works against them, why compensate somehow? Like reducing their HP or armor a bit?

The problem is that G-horn does so much damage that it is easier to just launch 21 rockets into a boss (from three people) and, if needed, use a heavy ammo synth than it is to actually do the boss fight. No other weapon in the game is able to do this. Buffing all other RLs would just make the game easier for everyone I guess.

 

[drandiiski]

Yes that works for some bosses, but not for all. Like you can burn Skolas all you want, but that will not help. Agreed that other bosses go down too easily with three people blasting it. May be they should re-balance bosses too.

 

[Aphelion]

Yes that works for some bosses, but not for all. Like you can burn Skolas all you want, but that will not help. Agreed that other bosses go down too easily with three people blasting it. May be they should re-balance bosses too.

If you re-balanced the bosses, then the only effective weapon would be G-horn. Anything else would just bounce off.

Look, no weapon in any game should ever be twice as effective as its direct competitors. It needs a nerf. I would say that a damage nerf is the wrong thing to do though. I actually think that G-horn is a strange exemplary, in that it is literally the perfect rocket launcher. It has no drawbacks. so instead, I think what they should have done is lowered its velocity, and removed tracking. That way it still packs a huge punch, but you have to place those rockets carefully.

 

[Terronium-12]

I don't get it... Why is that unbearably stupid?

Instead of addressing the "gating" issue caused entirely by them not having Gjallarhorn in Xur's loot table by placing it in said loot table, even if only for one week, they take the nerf hammer to it because that's their answer for everything. And what's the point in nerfing a rocket launcher to begin with? it's a high impact, high reward weapon - it's meant to lay down the maximum amount of damage in a short amount of time, it isn't designed to be a primary or even a secondary weapon as it burns through ammo rather quickly. They may as well lower the damage output of every single machine gun as well or make them all incredibly unstable.

And the shotgun nerf is completely unnecessary; you want to make encounters more engaging because you felt there wasn't enough risk involved? A weapon that I have to run up to multiple enemies to use all the while risking my character's life isn't involving enough? Every single time they nerf a weapon or an activity it reeks of nothing more than "You're not having fun the way we want you to have fun, thus we're removing, nerfing, gating, or placing it behind a wall of some kind".

I've grown tired of being told how I should play a game, what weapons I should be using, why I shouldn't benefit from grinding that doesn't grow tiresome after 30 seconds, and why my strategy isn't what was intended. To make matters worse, none of this is levied on information gathered from both PvP and PvE, no, it's levied entirely on PvP alone.

Hence why it's no longer on my PS4 or One.

 

[DurWinning]

I'm just sad they're not buffing Dragon's Breath.

 

[Aphelion]

Instead of addressing the "gating" issue caused entirely by them not having Gjallarhorn in Xur's loot table by placing it in said loot table, even if only for one week, they take the nerf hammer to it because that's their answer for everything. And what's the point in nerfing a rocket launcher to begin with? it's a high impact, high reward weapon - it's meant to lay down the maximum amount of damage in a short amount of time, it isn't designed to be a primary or even a secondary weapon as it burns through ammo rather quickly. They may as well lower the damage output of every single machine gun as well or make them all incredibly unstable.

And the shotgun nerf is completely unnecessary; you want to make encounters more engaging because you felt there wasn't enough risk involved? A weapon that I have to run up to multiple enemies to use all the while risking my character's life isn't involving enough? Every single time they nerf a weapon or an activity it reeks of nothing more than "You're not having fun the way we want you to have fun, thus we're removing, nerfing, gating, or placing it behind a wall of some kind".

I've grown tired of being told how I should play a game, what weapons I should be using, why I shouldn't benefit from grinding that doesn't grow tiresome after 30 seconds, and why my strategy isn't what was intended. To make matters worse, none of this is levied on information gathered from both PvP and PvE, no, it's levied entirely on PvP alone.

Hence why it's no longer on my PS4 or One.

Interesting. I have never even thought about this point of view.

So the problem is that bungie is telling you what you are supposed to do? Well i thought the entire point of this update was to give players more options, instead of the only option ever being the G-horn.

And also, it isn't necessarily true that G-horn was removed from xur's loot table. Thunderlord wasn't sold for ages, and G-horn has been sold already. people just think it has because they want one.

 

[Blitz24]

I find it funny actually that the only non-exotic that was nerfed was one that became completely unusable. Even at it's best, Black Hammer was situational, and was not always the best gun. Black Hammer is quite useless in any fight where the enemies don't have a weak point or the shooter isn't steady.

 

[Aphelion]

I find it funny actually that the only non-exotic that was nerfed was one that became completely unusable. Even at it's best, Black Hammer was situational, and was not always the best gun. Black Hammer is quite useless in any fight where the enemies don't have a weak point or the shooter isn't steady.

Yeah, that was the only thing I disagreed with. I think in a perfect world they should have made it an exotic or something, not just make it completely useless.

 

[Terronium-12]

Interesting. I have never even thought about this point of view.

Neither have they. The only difference is you shouldn't have to think about this point of view unless you're in a discussion like this one, they should have seen this from the get-go.

So the problem is that bungie is telling you what you are supposed to do? Well i thought the entire point of this update was to give players more options, instead of the only option ever being the G-horn.

You want to give players more options? Make the other weapons better. Don't sacrifice the effectiveness of weapons that are used for a specific purpose just to make the other weapons appear attractive by comparison. This also shines on another issue that they're apparently too ignorant to realize or even address: Gjallarhorn was used as much as it was to speed up tedious encounters. Tediousness is the actual issue, not Gjallarhorn's outright DPS.

So the problem now becomes if the DPS isn't significantly affected then they'll gate the community even further by virtue of "forcing" LFG posters to demand every member in the group have Gjallarhorn, or it'll be affected so much that no one will even care about it anymore.

And also, it isn't necessarily true that G-horn was removed from xur's loot table.

Gjallarhorn was removed from the loot table. Check out the Destiny Reddit and look for threads created by megaman. In fact, just last week it was reported by a dozen people that Xur actually sold Gjallarhorn before it was removed and Bungie claimed he couldn't be fixed for the week.

Which as we all know is 🤬 in and of itself. Remember the Strange Coin trade Xur just happened to have and how quickly that was resolved?

Thunderlord wasn't sold for ages

Until just before HoW launched. It was gated for that very reason.

and G-horn has been sold already.

During a period of time when no one really knew its worth.

 

[Aphelion]

Which as we all know is 🤬 in and of itself. Remember the Strange Coin trade Xur just happened to have and how quickly that was resolved?

Well if that was the case, they would have just put another weapon in its place.

Until just before HoW launched. It was gated for that very reason.

What, to spike player population? What on earth for?

During a period of time when no one really knew its worth.

Indeed. Actually, thinking about this, I would advocate for xur to not sell any weapons at all... but that's another discussion I guess.

Gjallarhorn was removed from the loot table. Check out the Destiny Reddit and look for threads created by megaman. In fact, just last week it was reported by a dozen people that Xur actually sold Gjallarhorn before it was removed and Bungie claimed he couldn't be fixed for the week.

Nah I don't really believe him. And as for the people who said he did last week, no way on earth do I believe them.

You want to give players more options? Make the other weapons better. Don't sacrifice the effectiveness of weapons that are used for a specific purpose just to make the other weapons appear attractive by comparison

Gjallahorn was not used for a specific purpose, it was used almost exclusively by anyone who had it, in almost any encounter. To buff everything else would make boss fights too easy and G-horn redundant. To nerf G-horn would make boss fights more difficult for ~35% of players, but G-horn redundant. Which is why nerfing its damage is the wrong thing to do. And also buffing other rocket launchers is also the wrong thing to do. They needed to make the gun more situational, so just the be all and end all of destiny's arsenal is only effective against certain bosses.

Another problem with the current damage model is that it does so much damage that it can be used to quite effectively skip boss mechanics all together. You can kill the PoE servitor boss without having to move at all. You can half kill Skolas before he even sends in a new wave of adds. you can solo Crotas end with any class. I don't know how you would fix those issues (or rather I could think of a way but really can't be stuffed to type one out) but they do need to be fixed in some way or another.

So the problem now becomes if the DPS isn't significantly affected then they'll gate the community even further by virtue of "forcing" LFG posters to demand every member in the group have Gjallarhorn, or it'll be affected so much that no one will even care about it anymore.

That is a very good point though... And you are probably right.

Neither have they. The only difference is you shouldn't have to think about this point of view unless you're in a discussion like this one, they should have seen this from the get-go.

Indeed. But Bungie probably did know about it, they just, as you say, want people to play their game the way they want people to play their game.



Why did I quote you completely out of order? I don't know.

 

[Terronium-12]

Well if that was the case, they would have just put another weapon in its place.

And yet they didn't. Why? Who the hell knows.

What, to spike player population? What on earth for?

You are familiar with Destiny's terrible loot system, are you not?

Nah I don't really believe him. And as for the people who said he did last week, no way on earth do I believe them.

What is there to disbelieve? He mined data from their servers; data that rang true every single week to the point where they initiated a backend fix just to lock him (and anyone else) out from having a look into future offerings.

Hell, even before then there was the time exploit, which I used, and you know what? Gjallarhorn never showed up.

Gjallahorn was not used for a specific purpose, it was used almost exclusively by anyone who had it, in almost any encounter.

Yes, to, again, make tedious encounters as painlessly boring as possible. That's where the problem begins and ends: the encounters are tedious, overly drawn out, and ultimately boring.

To buff everything else would make boss fights too easy and G-horn redundant.

The boss encounters are already too easy. The very fact you later go on to mention that a raid was solo'd is proof positive.

I'm also not really seeing how making the other weapons better would make Gjallarhorn (or any other heavy weapon) redundant as you're strengthening the loadouts of individual teams without any one person having to rely on a single weapon for dear life, but at the same time this is all mitigated by the fact it's a heavy weapon with the sole intent of laying down the maximum of damage possible in short period of time. And my comment wasn't to spite Gjallarhorn, it was to spite the boneheaded decisions made with all of these balancing updates that the advent of a lesser used weapons absolutely has to come at the expense of something else.

Pulse Rifles came at the expense of Auto Rifles.
Auto Rifles are being rebuffed to an extent at the expense of Pulse Rifles.

Just... what the 🤬 are they doing that any one archetype can never come into its own without being tampered with nonstop? The real kicker isn't even this, it's the comment DeeJ made at E3 which was something to the effect of "Every weapon has their day in the spotlight" so all of this seems incredibly insincere as they're goading you into using a specific weapon archetype because it's better than anything else at current.

I can balance weapons better than this and I have absolutely no coding knowledge whatsoever!

you can solo Crotas end with any class.

And this is the prize point right here. The fact you can solo a 6-player activity marketed as "difficult" speaks more to that difficulty than the effectiveness of any one weapon.

 

[Aphelion]

And this is the prize point right here. The fact you can solo a 6-player activity marketed as "difficult" speaks more to that difficulty than the effectiveness of any one weapon.

No it does not, it speaks only of how broken that bit of content is. My mistake.

 

[Terronium-12]

No it does not, it speaks only of how broken that bit of content is. My mistake.

If that's your interpretation than that speaks more to their inability to fix something that persisted across one entire year in three different iterations than the effectiveness of any one weapon.

 

[Aphelion]

If that's your interpretation than that speaks more to their inability to fix something that persisted across one entire year in three different iterations than the effectiveness of any one weapon.

Yeah, that is a weird thing about bungie. Why on earth are they only rebablancing this stuff now? They have known about all these problems for so long, and most of them haven't even been adressed.

...than the effectiveness of any one weapon.

That is why I said my mistake...

 

[Blitz24]

Crota's End is horribly broken, but the weapons being nerfed/buffed have nothing to do with it being broken or not being broken.

 

[Aphelion]

Crota's End is horribly broken, but the weapons being nerfed/buffed have nothing to do with it being broken or not being broken.

Yes, of course, my mistake... thanks for telling me again.

 

[Blitz24]

Yes, of course, my mistake... thanks for telling me again.

Gjallahorn is used most but it's because it has the most power. I'm more surprised Bungie didn't go and nerf the Vex again, an anomaly to begin with.

 

[Aphelion]

Gjallahorn is used most but it's because it has the most power. I'm more surprised Bungie didn't go and nerf the Vex again, an anomaly to begin with.

Really? The vex is fine right now, isn't it?

 

[drandiiski]

Vex is still OP IMO. And talking about nerfs - my GOD that Fist of Havoc in PvP…….&%$#@$!!!!

 

[Blitz24]

Xur this week: Starfire Protocol 133 I (47 off maximum), Armamentarium 140 D (40 off maximum), Young Akhimara's Spine 108 D (12 off maximum), P&T, Body Armor Engram:
Best way to buy (in order)
P&T if needed
Engram
Spine
Armamentarium
Starfire Protocol.

Spine has best roll of 3 but is probably least desired so the Body Armor engram is better. P&T is a nice gun that grants camouflage to user upon firing a shot as it's perk. Useful if you don't have a 365 Arc Sniper.

 

[Aphelion]

I was looking at some PvP stats of mine and all seems normal...

Yeah, okay, lots of headshots, right yeah okay I snipe people... wait rocket precision kills... I have a precision rocket kill??!?!?!? What?

 

[Blitz24]

I was looking at some PvP stats of mine and all seems normal...
View attachment 423743

Yeah, okay, lots of headshots, right yeah okay I snipe people... wait rocket precision kills... I have a precision rocket kill??!?!?!? What?

You are terrible at aiming with the rocket. Stop just firing it haphazardly into the sky and hoping it hits a person.

 

[Aphelion]

You are terrible at aiming with the rocket. Stop just firing it haphazardly into the sky and hoping it hits a person.

Well im sorry that grenades and horseshoes completely removes any skill involved with rocket launchers!


And also, this seems to be the result of some kind of interview. Planet Destiny Are to be trusted; http://planetdestiny.com/20-reasons-taken-king/