Dfp? G25?

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They have to pay immersion if not there will be not FF for GTHD or GT5 ... 6, 7

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6108298.html

sony was anticipating this result - that is why they came out with the sixaxis without rumble, would be expensive after the release to stop production of rumble sixaxis and replacing them with rumble less sixaxis

... I would say damn sony & immersion :grumpy: 👎

the console has nothing to do with FF besides running the game itself and recognizing the wheel. the game and the wheel have to support FF together . hence the game and wheel maker have to license through Immersion and not Sony. think about it, FF is in NFSC by EA.. why wouldn't it be in other titles? Plus Polyphony digtal is using the Logitech G25 inhouse for the developtment of GT5. the suit had to do with hardware nothing to do with the code for FF so Sony devs or any devs can continue to write support for FF into game, this is a hardware issue nothing more. 👍
 
please read the gamespot article right

47 games which infringe immersions patent. I'm sure GT is one of them.
How do you know that you can not write a code which acts and interrupts the connection btw. FF and and turning the wheel?
Polyphony Digital is Sony
No game will have FF on the PS3 until sony does not pay - the console is connected to the controller and that is what matters

please read this article (why is sony hidding the real reason for not having rumble in their sixaxis?)

http://www.businessweek.com/innovat...964.htm?chan=innovation_game+room_top+stories
 
please read the gamespot article right

47 games which infringe immersions patent. I'm sure GT is one of them.
How do you know that you can not write a code which acts and interrupts the connection btw. FF and and turning the wheel?
Polyphony Digital is Sony
No game will have FF on the PS3 until sony does not pay - the console is connected to the controller and that is what matters

please read this article (why is sony hidding the real reason for not having rumble in their sixaxis?)

http://www.businessweek.com/innovat...964.htm?chan=innovation_game+room_top+stories

i dunno what you don't get but the lawsuit was about hardware. need for speed on the ps3 has FF and is software, did I mention it is on the PS3? the console maker does not have anything to do with the fact that both the game devs and the wheel makers support FF it's just that simple. the immersion patent is about the hardware and the motors.. not code.. not a console.. we're done. give it up already :dopey:
 
ok again: GT, Metal Gear, Resistance, Warhawk, F1 are Sony in house productions or they are PS3 exclusive ... this is where the difference is need for speed is a multiplatform game THAT is why only 47 games are in this lawsuite of all games which had the rumble in the PS2 ... u better give up, buddy ... and explain me why there is no FF option in the Japanese. GTHD v1.1 :dopey:
 
ok again: GT, Metal Gear, Resistance, Warhawk, F1 are Sony in house productions or they are PS3 exclusive ... this is where the difference is need for speed is a multiplatform game THAT is why only 47 games are in this lawsuite of all games which had the rumble in the PS2 ... u better give up, buddy ... and explain me why there is no FF option in the Japanese. GTHD v1.1 :dopey:

lol you just don't get it.. i was waiting for you to bring up the games just so I could break it to you and speel it all out once again. Sony was sued over the dual-shock controller which is hardware. The software was then added after Sony lost the first suit as in injunction at the request of Immersion. Games WERE NOT included in the suit and only added in by the injunction to simply apply more pressure on Sony until the next round. Thank you, don't come back. :dunce:

Do yourself a favor and read more then just gamespot news next time.. :dopey:
 
it would seem to me that anything Sony are affiliated with, be it hardware or software based that makes use of immersions patents, including GT (which probably includes I's coding algorithams) are a no go area until Sony and Immersion resolve there differences and the matter is finally settled in court. It seems Sony are steadfastly digging their heels in over this, and therefore there will be no movement on licensing talks until all the appeals are settled.
Its all about the money for Sony, the arrogance they have in believing it could do without FF technology in the PS3 could well be there biggest ever mistake! It also shows gamer apathy in spouting the rubbish or believing that we dont want to feel the gaming inviroment in favour of waving our controllers around. lack of feedback is a step backward Sony, Advancement is to have both!
GT5 without force feedbackwill be a white elephant!! (other titles will sorely miss rumble/ff greatly) Using a wheel would be almost pointless without any feel for the inviroment and car physics.
We should all be shouting at Sony to settle this now before its too late, Consumers and game developers alike should be making as much noise as possible for Sony to Sort this!
If Sony fail to,it could well be the issue that helps playstation fall from the number one Gamers choice, which in turn leads to developer migration.
I for one will now reconsider my PS3 purchase because of this, I have an Xbox 360 which will take the multi platform games, and if Sonys expensive kit cant give me the feel of the PS3 exclusive games to enhance the experience then i Like many others will feel cheated.
GT is my game of choice and has been since day 1 GT1, money is not an issue when it comes to my console racing but i will not spend on a PS3 and GT5 if i cant feel like a driver, and take advantage of the feel of all the subtleties that PD are painstaikingly trying to recreate.

No wonder PD are gonna be able to take so long with this!
Im sure Kaz is Hoping mad that at this time, that no one would be able to appriciate the new Physics engine to its full effect, he would probably feel like why do i bother.
I read an interview with Kaz in a PS3 mag issue one here in the UK where he expressed suprise at the lack of FF support, and also sorrily confessed to being the one who suggested the motion sensing to Sony, as he wanted to incorporate it into the game, but he merely wanted this so he could tell if a gamer was holding the controller ready to play, or if it was on the table so he could have the game do something different, I dont think he ever expected to loose the most vital ingredient of Force feedback!

I have to wonder if Sony really understand just how big an issue Rumble/FF is to a gamer, or whether there blinded by the own arrogance.
 
Lack of FF will be the end of great game series.
I dont understand why sony cant use code from gt4 to get FF?(they own rigths to to their own products)
 
So is this right, because I'm a little slow.

-First released Japanese demo had FF technology
-Second version of Japanese and American demo doesn't have FF tecnology
-Lawsuit between Immersion and Sony prevents FF technology on PS3 (and not 360, WII etc) indefinetly until it is settled.

Is that right?
 
-Lawsuit between Immersion and Sony prevents FF technology on PS3 (and not 360, WII etc) indefinetly until it is settled.
The reason why the 360 has it (I don't know of anything in the Wii using FF) is because Microsoft paid Immersion for teh rights to use it.

Sony is still in their lawsuit because they either believe they did nothing wrong and it is about the priniciple of the thing or they hope their lawyers can pull a quick one and they can get away with using licensed technology without paying for it.

Honestly, it would probably be best for us if Sony just coughed up some cash and moved on like Microsoft did, but if they honestly believe they did nothing wrong then I can understand their wanting to prove it.
 
The reason why the 360 has it (I don't know of anything in the Wii using FF) is because Microsoft paid Immersion for teh rights to use it.

Sony is still in their lawsuit because they either believe they did nothing wrong and it is about the priniciple of the thing or they hope their lawyers can pull a quick one and they can get away with using licensed technology without paying for it.

Honestly, it would probably be best for us if Sony just coughed up some cash and moved on like Microsoft did, but if they honestly believe they did nothing wrong then I can understand their wanting to prove it.

Ahhh I see, hope it's sorted bloody soon then.
 
No force feedback? Then no GT for me. 👎
No GT? Then no PS3 for me either. :yuck:

Sony can't drag this one through the courts like they did with Lik-Sang till they close up shop. Immersion aren't going away. If they've infringed - then they have to pay up.

Typical Sony arrogance.

Interesting timing of the lawsuit though? The PS2's been out for 6 years - countless 'dual shock' controllers on the market - yet no lawsuit from Immersion till recently. Seems to be 'timed' somewhat around the development and launch on the PS3 - possibly to try and increase pressure on Sony...
 
I've been trying to get on the servers to get the demo, but no luck. I can verify that when I use my DFP for GT4 on the PS3 I am having similar lack of force feedback response. Especially noticable in the countersteering feedback. Like what Sky did, I hook my ps2 back up with GT4 to make sure my wheel was still functional and it was. Some kind of driver updates probably will be needed to fix the DFP's lack of force feedback on the GT4 and possible GTHD as others here have already somewhat confirmed. Hopefully tomorrow the demo is back up on the servers for download.

Responding just to add confirmation to the FF issue.

I've completed my download of the US version and I've done my research of the option menus and there is no force feedback option. Very disappointing!

I've played all the GT series since GT3 using a FF wheel and has been the only way I've enjoyed this game. The DFP is recognized and responds to the same input steering amounts that would have worked on GT4 for the PS2, but there is no feedback with the wheel when you are steering or countersteering. The wheel sometimes has resistance when plugged in and sometimes has non at all. I have to plug it in and out until it calibrate with a load of resistance so that I can use the wheel...even without the FF. This really blows not having FF.
 
i'll respeond to the sludge in this thread later but to correct a few things now:

Nintendo holds the patents on their own rumble technology and have for a while now just like Sony did. For whatever reason Immersion hasn't gone after them "yet" so they say.. Nintendo's rumble is slightly different but then again so was Sony's.. Their patent is alot clearer then Immersion on what exactly it does and how it's used but then again so was Sony's.

As for M$ they had been doing business with Immersion since the mid 90's already.. They settled out of court, bought 10% of Immersion, AND paid 26$ million.
 
I am pretty sure that the lawsuit only prevents Sony from using Immersion's patented method of rumble into Sony's controllers. It doesn't deal with developers putting rumble effects into their games and it doesn't deal with 3rd parties putting rumble into their controllers for the PS3; but few developers will put rumble into a game when they know that all of the people who use the original Sony controllers will have no rumble.

So it seems to be a complete mystery as to why there is no Force Feedback(which uses a completely different mechanism than rumble).
 
the lawsuite is about rumble and FF ...they use the general term of "motion tactile" technology - which includes rumble and FF
 
I'm not sure that Sony vs. Immersion lawsuit has anything to do with non-FFD issue of 1.1. version of GTHD demo.

Somehow I think it has to do with Drift Trial mode. I've only played american 1.1 demo without FFD, but if current FFD-algorythms (as in GT4) were kept for physics presented in GTHD, it seems to me that drifting for serious points would be pretty much okward task.

This way or another - we'll know as soon as next demo goes public.
 
I'm not sure that Sony vs. Immersion lawsuit has anything to do with non-FFD issue of 1.1. version of GTHD demo.

Somehow I think it has to do with Drift Trial mode. I've only played american 1.1 demo without FFD, but if current FFD-algorythms (as in GT4) were kept for physics presented in GTHD, it seems to me that drifting for serious points would be pretty much okward task.

This way or another - we'll know as soon as next demo goes public.

💡

Why would the FF algorithm from GT4 hinder drifting for serious points?
I doubt your theory is right. The Force Feedback algorithm in GT4 work just fine for the wheel. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the Drift Trial Mode. If they allowed the algorithms, drifting for serious points wouldn't be an issue with the GT4 FF algorithm... I promise you that because it does just fine.

I think the lawsuit theory makes sense, as it makes sense with the japanese version removing it later on. Weren't the Demo leading up to the release played with the wheel? so I would think they had the right algorithms and ready, just that they couldn't allow it.

I'm still using the wheel regardless and I'm an avid GT drifter and really miss the GT4 algorithm!
 
Anybody else notice that when you go anywhere in GTHD and turn your wheel there is feedback....until of course you go into a trial ( G25 BABY 👍 )
 
Well i'm not sure if it makes sense as to why they took it out of the Japanese demo seeing as its an american patent system and would only prevent the use of Force Feedback devices in america and not Japan or any other country in the world.

Either way, i hope they sort this out soon, or at least in the meantime give us an official reason as to why there is a lack of Force Feedback within Sony produced/developed games.
 
Anybody else notice that when you go anywhere in GTHD and turn your wheel there is feedback....until of course you go into a trial ( G25 BABY 👍 )

I had noticed that too!

Also if you look on the G25 box, it has a licenced from Immersion Technologies logo on it.
 
From the G25 manual:

4bqynts.jpg
 
About 2 hours ago, someone in the GTRP forums mentioned that he just downloaded the Japanese v1.1 demo and force feedback works perfectly in 900° mode. Since I do have an old Japanese-Version that supports FF, I don't want to take the risk to lose FF when I update to the new version. But I would appreciate it, if someone who doesn't have anything to lose could download the current version from the Japanese online store and test this out. Thanks a lot 👍

Some hope returns for those without FF atm...
 
About 2 hours ago, someone in the GTRP forums mentioned that he just downloaded the Japanese v1.1 demo and force feedback works perfectly in 900° mode. Since I do have an old Japanese-Version that supports FF, I don't want to take the risk to lose FF when I update to the new version. But I would appreciate it, if someone who doesn't have anything to lose could download the current version from the Japanese online store and test this out. Thanks a lot 👍

Some hope returns for those without FF atm...

Post the link to that source. I remember reading somewhere that it was removed from the Japanese ver 1.1 and someone had already confirmed that.
 
I downloaded GTHD from the HK site a few days ago & it does not support FF on the DFP.
 
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