Did PD intentionally nerf the G27 to artificially favor the T500?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Devedander
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G25/G27 was NEVER an officially supported wheel by this game. The fact that a lot of us is using it is because it just happens to work good enough for it.

T500 IS an officially supported wheel.

You are technically correct of course, they never promised anything. But then they also never promised it would be crippled beyond feasible reason (and become even worse than in GT5P). This is a legalese argument, and I do not get why you keep going at it.

Let us talk business instead of nitpicking legalese: What business sense would it make to NOT fully support one of the best and most popular wheels? And when every other game does so without issue?

Absolutely none! Unless you are intentionally crippling it.

"Officially supported" or not, it is a decision by PD to yank a great number of their most hardcore users.
 
...because they don't have to? You are essentially blaming PD for not supporting a non supported and start supporting an officially supported product?

Logitech already had an officially supported wheel designed specifcially for GT5, and now one from thrustmaster.

You DON'T have to like it and you have a choice to not buy their their product. Hey look at the bright side you CAN always start another onlie petition.
👍

you notice how silly that argument is? "It is not supported because it isn't officially supported"

when games with much smaller budget have better controller support, it is a must, for any self respected major game developer to at least do the same, if not more, let alone the staple of console racing sim development that is PD.

For a game of this scope and resources, ALL WHEELS SHOULD BE OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED, whether it bears a GT emblem is another matter, it's like those stupid case when FIFA on PC only works with the XBOX controller, it's a royal ass **** with the customers and I don't understand why you have white knight it, as a gamer, why would you prefer some hardware being not supported?

Will it piss you off if Guitar Hero and Rock Band instruments can't be shared? Will it piss you off if your mouse and keyboard must be the exact same brand with your PC? Will it piss you off if your TV, DVD and HDMI cables has to be from the same manufacturer? Something is so commonplace, so fundamental that it is a necessity.

Must a chef serve you cooked food when you enter a restaurant? it didn't say that on the menu but you damn well expect he will.

The fact that you can't provide me a logical reason for PD to drop the support besides "they don't have to" means there's only one reason, commercial favourism.
 
You are technically correct of course, they never promised anything. But then they also never promised it would be crippled beyond feasible reason (and become even worse than in GT5P). This is a legalese argument, and I do not get why you keep going at it.

Let us talk business instead of nitpicking legalese: What business sense would it make to NOT fully support one of the best and most popular wheels? And when every other game does so without issue?

Absolutely none! Unless you are intentionally crippling it.

"Officially supported" or not, it is a decision by PD to yank a great number of their most hardcore users.

So what business sense for Apple to not make OSX run on PC, the most widely used personal computer on earth??

Have you made a thread on Apple forum yet?? 👍
 
PS. My DS3 does not work inside GT5 when the G27 is attached.

Set your controller to #2. Let the wheel be number 1. Now with the 1.05 update it will now give you more usage while your G27 is hooked up. Unplug the G27 and the controller takes over as the main without you having to manually change the settings.

All in all PD has toyed with us in my ways with GT5 and they are slowly trying to get some respect back with patches and the new events being added.
 
you notice how silly that argument is? "It is not supported because it isn't officially supported"

when games with much smaller budget have better controller support, it is a must, for any self respected major game developer to at least do the same, if not more, let alone the staple of console racing sim development that is PD.

For a game of this scope and resources, ALL WHEELS SHOULD BE OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED, whether it bears a GT emblem is another matter, it's like those stupid case when FIFA on PC only works with the XBOX controller, it's a royal ass **** with the customers and I don't understand why you have white knight it, as a gamer, why would you prefer some hardware being not supported?

Will it piss you off if Guitar Hero and Rock Band instruments can't be shared? Will it piss you off if your mouse and keyboard must be the exact same brand with your PC? Will it piss you off if your TV, DVD and HDMI cables has to be from the same manufacturer? Something is so commonplace, so fundamental that it is a necessity.

Must a chef serve you cooked food when you enter a restaurant? it didn't say that on the menu but you damn well expect he will.

The fact that you can't provide me a logical reason for PD to drop the support besides "they don't have to" means there's only one reason, commercial favourism.

LOL. yeah, you should also made a thread on Apple forum and DEMAND they made the iphone in more than a hand full of colors, becuase like you said, a company with such resources can certainly made the iphone with more colors.

Must a chef serve you cooked food when you enter a restaurant? it didn't say that on the menu but you damn well expect he will.

No. Ever had sushi? or do you expect the sushi to be bbq'd when they serve it? or do you fault the sushi joint for not serving "cooked" food?? LOL
 
So what business sense for Apple to not make OSX run on PC, the most widely used personal computer on earth??

Have you made a thread on Apple forum yet?? 👍

Well nobody bought a PC with a reasonable expectation of running OSX on it.

Try again.
 
If PD was smart enough, they'd team up with Logitech, do what it takes and kill the wheel industry. For the price, quality and features the G27 is awesome. There is no way in hell I'd get the newest official GT5 wheel. It cost more than a new ps3 and xbox combined. And it doesn't even include the shifter.
 
PS. My DS3 does not work inside GT5 when the G27 is attached. So I can not even use that DS3 button remapping which apparently works for others. Which means I have still not been able to turn ghost cars off, honk the horn, look left/right, not to speak of RA menu. And yes, I DO blame PD.
After booting GT5 try pressing the PS button and remapping from there the controller to Player 1.
 
Set your controller to #2. Let the wheel be number 1. Now with the 1.05 update it will now give you more usage while your G27 is hooked up. Unplug the G27 and the controller takes over as the main without you having to manually change the settings.

After booting GT5 try pressing the PS button and remapping from there the controller to Player 1.

Thanks guys. The really important things are newer in the manual :)
 
Thats a problem we all have since 2008 in GT5P. PD updated the game to try and slow down clutch users and limit the advantage of the the slow auto shift of pad/Driving force pro users. You have to lift off the throttle when shifting. Also if your cars wheels are spinning you also get neutral even if you lift off throttle. It's very easy to spin the wheels in low gears so it takes time to learn and with practice becomes easy to deal with. I can imagine any newer user being extremely frustrated by this though. Drifting is a pain too.

It's an important issue but its only because PD implemented full use of a PC wheel back in 2007 to a console game. PD should add a clutch button for pad users.

There is a clutch button, its just not mapped by default, you have to map it yourself.

+++ to original post. The g27 is fully supported by the ps3. The ps3 can recognize all the buttons, and axis. This is clearly a limitation on PD's part.
If it was intentional, or a work in progress. We wouldn't know without taking PD to court and sueing them for creating an unfair marketing advantage to promote thier "officially" supported products... I'm sure PD gets royalties everytime logitech sells a DFGT, or if Thrustmaster sells a T500rs.
 
Next time, when GT6 will be out, you have to have a Sony LCD to get the full experience. Well, Samsung or Panasonic LCDs are not officially supported. So go and get a Sony LCD. GT6 will work with other LCDs but you can only watch it in black and white. But that is not a gamebreaker. It just doesn't look as good as on Sony TVs.

Right?

I bet, if this would be technically possible, Sony/PD would do it.
 
Next time, when GT6 will be out, you have to have a Sony LCD to get the full experience. Well, Samsung or Panasonic LCDs are not officially supported. So go and get a Sony LCD. GT6 will work with other LCDs but you can only watch it in black and white. But that is not a gamebreaker. It just doesn't look as good as on Sony TVs.

Hardly. There are defined, industry-accepted standards for the types of signals that a TV can accept and process.

The PS3 is a proprietary game console that plays proprietary software. Nobody other than Sony is allowed to even make a PS3. Sony chose to offer limited connectivity for third-party products. You can successfully use many off the shelf USB and BlueTooth devices with it, but there's no guarantee they'll work perfectly.

The flip-side of this is the Xbox 360 only works with approved devices. I cannot connect an excellent PC wheel like the G27 and use it, even though there's a standard USB port on the front of the console. Until Fanatec saved us from the Xbox 360 Wireless Racing Wheel ghetto, we lived in dark (racing) times. PS3 users, it could be even worse!

I bet, if this would be technically possible, Sony/PD would do it.

Sadly, this is probably true.
 
Next time, when GT6 will be out, you have to have a Sony LCD to get the full experience. Well, Samsung or Panasonic LCDs are not officially supported. So go and get a Sony LCD. GT6 will work with other LCDs but you can only watch it in black and white. But that is not a gamebreaker. It just doesn't look as good as on Sony TVs.

Right?

I bet, if this would be technically possible, Sony/PD would do it.

Yes, it's possible, but not feasible because there are many LCD users of other brands and Sony dare not do so. But, to us, the number is not strong enough to have a strong protest or lawsuit and not to mention the fact that G27 can be played in GT5 just without some of the functions. Here, Sony and PD suffers a poorer corporate or brand image. If I have two brands to choose with the same quality, I will not choose SONY or PD. I boycott them, protesting for its dirty handling of this matter and SONY's mismanagment of PD. It is about subtle buying behavio(u)r or brand loyalty.
 
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And possibly by doing so the the crap doesn't go to the right direction. It's not thrustmaster here playing dirty games (if someone is) but pd. The "right way" is to buy forza3 or 4 instead of gt5.

and play the game with the branded xbox wheel, ironic isn't it?
 
I don't get it why people just don't get it...LOL

Who is being shafted here?
There is a difference between asking PD to give support to a non supported product and favoring one specific officially supported product among many.

G25/G27 was NEVER an officially supported wheel by this game. The fact that a lot of us is using it is because it just happens to work good enough for it.

T500 IS an officially supported wheel.

People who got a G27 that had buttons working in GT5P only to find those buttons turned off in GT5?

People who got a G27 only to find out the G25 is fully functional but the G27 has some artifical limitations put in place?

Again, this isn't a case of PD just never got round to it, it's a case of PD actually broke functionality that was there before and have gone out of their way to disable a specific function on this specific wheel which happens to be the biggest competitor to their new line of oficially backed wheels - so basically PD is screwing over the consumer to tilt the table in their own financial best interest.

It seems like lately consumers have been bent to a mindset of "a company can treat you as badly as they want and its fine unless they specifically said they wouldn't". What ever happened to a decent business?

Is it "business"? Yes it is.

Is it bad for the consumer? Yes it is, which is why it's ok to be unhappy about it even if PD has a technical out.

A company can pay you just barely enough you don't quit... doesn't mean it's a good company or that the employee should be happy about it.

Likewise an employee can work just hard enough not to get fired. Doesn't make them a good employee or mean the employer shouldn't work to change that.

See how that works?

To conitnue the analogy, it's one thing to say "my companies cheap and won't pay me more money" but it's another thing if the company actually pays you LESS than they did last year in an effort to make you change jobs.

Same with crippling a peripheral to push you into buying a diferent peripheral.
 
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You USED to have fully working gearboxes in GT5p. Now you don't. I guess that's just one vast conspiracy, too...?

Kaz promised the G27 update. Give him some time. What did you want first... unprotected game saves and a less crazy leveling up system, or G27 support?

G27 users are the minority. Protected game save sufferers and those grinding endlessly were the majority. No END of bollixed up things in GT5. Fixes already for some, fixes on the way for others. Maybe no fixes at all for some. Who knows. But even Sony/PD aren't suicidal enough to make the ONLY wheels compatible with the game either a DFGT or a wheel that cost twice as much as the console it works with. Sony knows how few are going to spring for one of these.

Put your tinfoil hats back on, and give Kaz a BIT of time, for Pete's sake!
 
Remember when star wars episode 456 came out? Tickets were cheap, skywalker didnt have the force powers, they didn't have CG, and it was good. Then ff 30 yrs, episode 123 came out and it was like 15$, and every jedi in the movie had supermegaforce powers, and we had high hopes and it was lame, and lucas forgot how to make quality movies but was really good at marketing big macs and slurpies?...remember that? Yeah, I remember.
 
Kaz promised the G27 update. Give him some time. What did you want first... unprotected game saves and a less crazy leveling up system, or G27 support?

I believe his actually said that he would like to get full G25/G27 support, which many around here will remind you is not a promise (as was thoroughly drilled into many members heads for being dissapointed with GT5 because apparently Kaz never "promised").

Put your tinfoil hats back on, and give Kaz a BIT of time, for Pete's sake!

So it's a tinfoil hat because in the many years since the G27 came out, during which time many other games have fully supported it and even games which came out before the G27 have support for it PD has not managed to get the G27 working and we should give him some more time?

How long is a reasonable amount of time to figure it out?

How long is a reasonable amount of time to put BACK the missing buttons that were ALREADY working in GT5P?

How long is a reasonable amount of time to stop BLOCKING the RA menu from working on a specific peripheral when it's accessible through the same method on the other peripherals?
 
So after reading this thread from page 1 it really makes me sad with everything I've read today. I've been doing as much research on this whole G27 support with GT5 because I like many others was anticipating it being compatible and fully working 100%.

Although I have not purchased the wheel myself yet, from the advice of everyone would it be smarter for me to just buy the DFGT wheel? I would kill to have the G27 and was planning on buying it with my income tax check but if everyting isn't 100% then why not save the 150 bucks and just get the DFGT.

I'm sure the TS500 won't fail, but I hope it does. That's a hefty price and that's two car payments in my life. I was willing to spend 1 car payment just buying the G27. Any thoughts would be appreciate it, if a patch happens by then I'll get the G27. The G27 looks too close to actually getting behind the wheel of a car and I really don't want to buy the plastic I look like a total Toy DFGT.
 
How long is a reasonable amount of time to figure it out?

How long is a reasonable amount of time to put BACK the missing buttons that were ALREADY working in GT5P?

How long is a reasonable amount of time to stop BLOCKING the RA menu from working on a specific peripheral when it's accessible through the same method on the other peripherals?

I dunno... How long is a reasonable time to do ANYTHING? Depends more on how much you want it than how long it actually takes. I wanted the game save unprotected. Got what I wanted, but it STILL felt like forever!

I want enough events that you NEVER have to repeat anything. I want AT LEAST as many A-Spec events as GT4 had (that a conspiracy, too?), and enough that I NEVER have to play B-Spec ever again. And if I don't get it in, say, four weeks, I'm gonna take off my tinfoil hat and start looking for conspiracies. After all, the lack of A-Spec events PROVES that it was only done to force us to play B-Spec, obviously!:rolleyes:

I'll be interested in how many Illuminati addicts are going to retract their words when the support for the G27 finally (eventually) arrives. Somehow, I don't think too many will step up to the mea culpa plate.

I simply don't see how anyone can connect this with a peripheral that cost TWICE as much. I'd be a LOT more inclined to agree if Thrustmaster had an officially supported wheel in the same price range as the G27. But TWICE AS MUCH? Maybe I'm not a marketing major, but that just seems too much of a stretch.

Time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Wheel manufacturers. They charge an arm and a leg for them, and then forget to allow for firmware updating. You want a REAL conspiracy, how about a look down THAT path?
 
Next time, when GT6 will be out, you have to have a Sony LCD to get the full experience. Well, Samsung or Panasonic LCDs are not officially supported. So go and get a Sony LCD. GT6 will work with other LCDs but you can only watch it in black and white. But that is not a gamebreaker. It just doesn't look as good as on Sony TVs.

Right?

I bet, if this would be technically possible, Sony/PD would do it.

don't forget, those inferior tv's will contain sony parts.
 
When it doesn't make sense, follow the money. PD blocking functionality on the G27 doesn't make sense on many different levels, yet the OP basically proved that is what is happening. Follow the $$, ¥, €, etc.., and you will find the reason. PD IS playing dirty, and as an electronics consumer I won't forget that in the future.
 
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Time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Wheel manufacturers. They charge an arm and a leg for them, and then forget to allow for firmware updating. You want a REAL conspiracy, how about a look down THAT path?
That must be the lamest argument I've heard in this entire thread.
 
I dunno... How long is a reasonable time to do ANYTHING? Depends more on how much you want it than how long it actually takes. I wanted the game save unprotected. Got what I wanted, but it STILL felt like forever!

Well since this is not something as nebulous as that, I would argue a reasonable amount of time is somewhere around how long it takes other competitive products to accomplish the same thing.

That being said, PD is WAY behind on it...

So basically what I am getting at is that a reasonable time is long past and the idea that it's reasonable to wait MORE time (as if this is a new issue that they only probably just found out about and started working on so today is day 1 or something) is literally like saying you should give your contracter more time to put the light plates on your switches 2 years after you have moved into your house...

There is no more reasonable time... reasonable time was during the build process, we have exceeded that and are now several patches deep and they haven't even unbroken the thing they broke since GT5 let alone un blocked the thing they blocked.

I'll be interested in how many Illuminati addicts are going to retract their words when the support for the G27 finally (eventually) arrives. Somehow, I don't think too many will step up to the mea culpa plate.

Some people said the same thing about when damage finally was going to get patched into GT5P...

And if anything it would be a win if people recognizing this negative action made PD reconsider and fix the issue to avoid the bad rep.

As it is a patch to fix G27 support is anything but a certainty. Again I remind you the closest thing we have to confirmation is Kaz saying he would like to get it working in the future sometime.

In PD terms that's about the equivalent of "we cannot confirm any plans to do so at this time."

I simply don't see how anyone can connect this with a peripheral that cost TWICE as much. I'd be a LOT more inclined to agree if Thrustmaster had an officially supported wheel in the same price range as the G27. But TWICE AS MUCH? Maybe I'm not a marketing major, but that just seems too much of a stretch.

Simpe: It's a device with nearly identical functionality.

I can easily see the similarity between a Toyota and a Lexus even though the Lexus infallibly costs much more.

And I would probably get the Toyota unless it turned out Toyota decided this year to stop making it possible to put an AC in any Toyotas, stop making it possible to put an automatic gearbox in any Toyotas and stop putting automatic windows in any Toyotas.

If that happened, one would be far more likely to splurge on the Lexus to avoid the artificial limitations of the Toyota despite the price don't you think? (obviously ignore the fact that in the car industry there are hundreds of competitors to choose from since that's not true for wheels).

You literally don't have to look far to see people already saying "what?" This costs way more than a G27 and doesn't even come with a shifter? Why would I pay that?". Comparing the two is exactly what's going to happen.

Heck even the DFGT is compared to the G27 when people go shopping for wheels and the difference is far larger there.

The fact the price is twice as much is a huge reason TO compare them... I mean if you can literally get almost the same functionality at less than half the price wouldn't you be interested in it and start comparing?

Let's say I took the G25 and the G27, the are comparable products right?

Now lets' say I jack the price of the G27 up to $800.

Did the products just change all of a sudden? No, they are still comparable products, however now the G25 is CLEARLY the better value. Price does not change whether two things are comparable, it changes their relative values and what PD seems to have done is artificially devalued the product they don't want to sell so favor falls on their product. PD can't force the G27 to cost way more than the T500 (which would make the T500 the better value) but they can do things (within limits) to reduce the value of the G27 to make the T500 relatively gain value).

If I can break some small parts of the G25 and make it a little annoying to use, I potentially shift some buyers away from it who are willing to part with more money if "that's what it takes" to get the full functionality of the G27. Same thing with G27 and T500.

Time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Wheel manufacturers. They charge an arm and a leg for them, and then forget to allow for firmware updating. You want a REAL conspiracy, how about a look down THAT path?

That's some of the worst logic I have heard...

So Logitech makes a product that is completely compatible with the PS3 OS and supports all the functions necessary to work, every other game maker utilizes this properly and includes functionality, then PD comes along and breaks functionality by coding their game to NOT work right with this particular wheel and...

It's Logitechs fault.

Really? Are you even listening to what you are saying?

When a programmer makes a program for Windows that doesn't follow standards and crashes all the time and causes your mouse not to work, do you blame Microsoft and your mouse manufacturer for not changing their products around this broken product?

If a tool company starts selling some weird shaped driver that is neither philips nor flathead compatible, do you blame all the screw companies in the world for not making screws that fit that driver?

You do realize don't you that if PD makes a non standard game and logitech updates it's firmware to now work with that nonstandard game, it would probably break functionality with all the other standard games right?
 
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Time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Wheel manufacturers. They charge an arm and a leg for them, and then forget to allow for firmware updating. You want a REAL conspiracy, how about a look down THAT path?

I just don't understand how you can make this allegation. NFS:Shift, NFS:Hot Pursuit, Ferrari Challenge, Supercar Challenge, F1:2010, SSV8:NC--I can't think of a SINGLE racing game from ANY developer on the PS3, released in the last year that does NOT support the G27. Except one. And yet PD can blame Logitech for this and people accept it. It's not as if the G27 just came out last month.
 
I just don't understand how you can make this allegation. NFS:Shift, NFS:Hot Pursuit, Ferrari Challenge, Supercar Challenge, F1:2010, SSV8:NC--I can't think of a SINGLE racing game from ANY developer on the PS3, released in the last year that does NOT support the G27. Except one. And yet PD can blame Logitech for this and people accept it. It's not as if the G27 just came out last month.

And the G27 is so compatible and standardized that it works on games that even came out BEFORE the G27... Logitech have literally done everything right... to argue the blame falls on them is ridiculous.
 
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