Did PD intentionally nerf the G27 to artificially favor the T500?

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ItsHim
As far as I can tell no G27 owner is worse off than a G25 owner, and it really isn't a great deal mapping some buttons on a DS controller.

There's a lot of drama for little reason. And everyone can fix this "problem" easily and with minimum fuzz.
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Until you realize that G27 owners can not even do such basic things as adjust the force feedback level. Well, sure you can adjust it, but every setting, from 1-10 feels exactly the same way. It's very deceptive.

The G27 is capable of very strong FFB. And not just with PC sims but with PS3 games like Ferrari Challenge or Supercar Challenge or Grid--all from developers that don't make baseless claims about Logitech's drivers. In GT5 it feels like a wet noodle. And there's nothing we can do about it until PD decides to fix it.

There's more to this issue than buttons that don't work.
 
Maybe its because neither the G25 or G27 are officially supported. The G25 on the other hand, when it detects a game that doesn't support it, it reports to the game as a Driving Force Pro, and is compatible that way. Hence why when you change settings on the DFP options, it affects the G25. The G27 doesn't have this same functionality built into it, therefore its left floundering.
 
It isn't something you build into the wheel, the game just acknowledges the G25 under the DFP profile, it can easily do the same with the G27, the problem is with the software not the hardware.

I am sure they are rigging it the moment I boot it up, I just didn't know it's in flavour of something from thrustmasters (it's thrustmasters god damn it!), i thought they were just trying to push the DFGT sales.
 
I think there's one explanation the OP has failed to take into account...

He seems determined to accept this as ONLY deliberate mischief. Step back a bit, look at the game in its' entirety, and another explanation becomes possible.

STUPIDITY!​

Yes, sad as the fact is, MUCH about the initial release of this game seems rife with oversight and blunders, and features that leave you scratching your head and going 'Why, for the love of God, did they do THAT..?!' And, sadly, just plain stupidity seems the only reason..! Well loved, established features from GT4 have been nixed in their entirety, replaced with far inferior features, the game's sullen grind for XP and credits JUST to even advance to the next level seems moronic, and the forum fills up with people going 'Why... why, oh why, oh why?!' to much of this.

What most of them DON'T do, though, is look for deliberate malice for them.

This one does.

Personally, I just see this as simply one MORE 'Doh:dopey:!' moment that PD have done. Were the game free of most of these, then yes, perhaps it is possible to see something sinister about it. But if you are looking at something being in GT5p and now NOT in GT5 as 'proof' that it is all deliberate, well, there's a LONG list of things missing from GT5p that simply seem to be sins of omission (or sins of stupidity). Are they ALL a vast conspiracy?

Sorry to say, but 'stupid is as stupid does', and this game is rife with it. One more example doesn't a conspiracy make, IMO...
 
Great post! Totally agree! I have a G27 and so I am a bit annoyed by this. I would never buy a T500, have you guys seen the latest videos? That thing whines like a pig on a death table (plus it costs twice as much as a G27)! I would much rather get a GT3 RS from Fanatec if for some reason I had to replace my wheel. The lack of adjustability in terms of FFB and deadzone is a shame... I've heard the Fanatec is much better in this respect.
 
OP, yes I think they did. It would have been the easiest thing in the world (for PD) to add full support for the g27, but 2 other wheel, one of which IMO is worse than the g27 had to ruin it for us.
 
Maybe if a direct competitor to GT came out on the Playstation things would change.
Cheaper to change a game than a wheel.

The stupid factor is a relevant one like the post mentioned.
Nothing surprises me any more.

Strange to have two official wheels though. I'm sure logitch must have thought they would be exclusive.

What next. F1 cars with bridgestone on the front and Michelin on the back.
 
G27 can be mapped in GT5P. And even after update 1.05, no support for G27 seems weired. Obviously, yes to your question. I would say, PD and Kaz is a bit dirty. Disappointing.
 
BigYoSpeck
I think it's pretty much a given there is an element of this being deliberate.

But it's the paying customer who really loses.
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Agreed.

Spagetti69
Maybe if a direct competitor to GT came out on the Playstation things would change.
Cheaper to change a game than a wheel.

What next. F1 cars with bridgestone on the front and Michelin on the back.
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Yeah, I'd love a serious competitor to the GT series that's for Playstation 3 (otherwise Forza would be a real option). For whatever reason, I believe Kaz will eventually patch in far better support of the G25/G27 wheels in a future update, hopefully the next one.
 
"Why not nerf something big like the gas pedal then?"

They did "nerf" the brake pedal on both the G25 and G27 (well, I assume the G27 as well - I have a G25 myself). Allowing only a fraction of full pedal travel before you hit 90-100% brake pressure and lockup - only slightly helped by lowering the braking force of individual cars - is one of my main annoyances with this game.
It's pretty much a choice between ABS 1 or being way more gentle with your braking foot than you should ever have to be.
 
💡 Maybe Kaz hasn't taken the G27 out of the box yet.

KazGT5G27-1.png
 
Microsoft didn't even care to make sure it's own Wireless wheel were fully support in games. And it worst than GT5 since you can't even use a controller as a sub. If anything mapped on the right analog stick you were out of luck.

A few recent games on the PS3 didn't have Fanatec wheel support (at first) and someone thought it was some kind of conspiracy against Fanatec yet CM did finally patch this.
 
Miths
"Why not nerf something big like the gas pedal then?"

They did "nerf" the brake pedal on both the G25 and G27 (well, I assume the G27 as well - I have a G25 myself). Allowing only a fraction of full pedal travel before you hit 90-100% brake pressure and lockup - only slightly helped by lowering the braking force of individual cars - is one of my main annoyances with this game.
It's pretty much a choice between ABS 1 or being way more gentle with your braking foot than you should ever have to be.
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Fm3 was the same way. (I have a feeling PD may have copied Turn 10 here) If you use a nixim brake mod it helps a lot with g25/G27 pedals. This mod helps me brake a lot better in both GT5 and Fm3 (I use G27 pedals with X360 Wireless wheel)
 
There has been hints of PD stealth nerfing older wheels all along back to GT5P, having had a DFP at the time at the start of a race the wheel would buckle rather strongly, then i got a DFGT and none of that, was there some great change to the internals of the DFGT to the DFP to explain that? Probably not just a subtle and stealthy push for people to buy the newer official wheels.

How about the overall neutering of force feedback from GT4? I know the DFP could crank out massive FF from gt4, getting to tracks like nurburg the FF would kill your arms if you had it maxed out fighting a car on that track. Now if the DFP could do it in gt4 stands to reason the DFGT and the DFP could do the exact same in gt5. So why tone it down so greatly?

Now we get the new official GT wheel, and it promises stronger FF due to its new and more powerful motor, bigger better faster stronger, more wheel rotation, and so on. But we know the current generation of wheels can put out plenty of FF if you code the game to do it period.

It just all comes down to if you want the best experience and all the options and functions and bells and whistles you have to pay for it and you have to pay through the nose for it. But a lot of that is wholly artificial, the DFP, DFGT, g25, and g27 certainly could do much more than the game is allowing them to do.
 
Since this is our tinfoil hat thread,I wonder if any other wheels have issues with hitting 2nd gear consistently?

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Conso...d-gear-in-gran-turismo-5/td-p/522775?nobounce

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=131798
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137122
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137694

I've run into this issue a few times, it's getting better because I'm slowing down and holding the clutch longer, but in real life and other games, I've never had to do that. Can any other wheel users from other brands chime in?
 
It sounds like PD asked Logitech to modify bits for the G27 and I guess they said no as they already make a wheel specially designed for GT games. So maybe Thrustmaster contacted PD and said they would do whatever they wanted to make the wheel work 100% and the deal was done. It will be interesting to see if a new GT budget wheel option gets made by Thrustmaster or whether PD still have any tie in with Logitech.
 
Good argument OP, well thought out and developed.

machschnel
Shouldn't Polyphony/ Thrustmaster rely on superior quality to make sales rather than cheap, school yard tactics? If the T500 is the be all and end all of sim wheels, it will sell. Ofcourse, limiting other wheels would also increase T500 sales.But it begs the questions - if a quality wheel will sell, why resort to limiting the genres current top wheels?

Should we assume the T500 is not quality?
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This is the post that spoke the most for me. I know a bit about thrustmaster products from having a mild interest in flight sim games, and there is a definite opinion amongst that crowd that thrustmaster products are of dubious quality, not speaking the actual packaging of the controller, their stuff is usually nice and solid, heavy, but of the mechanical bits inside. Much of what I read about thrustmaster sticks and throttles is that they were typically bought by hardcore simmers who would be modifying them right out of the box to avert or fix known issues. I also recall seeing a few threads about controllers which necessitated being modified right out of the box or soon after, because they simply didn't work. Now, to me, for an expensive piece of equipment such as this, that is unacceptable.

I don't know if quality issues will also be seen with the thrustmaster wheels, but personally, I wouldn't have that high of expectations for it...which is aside from the fact that $600 is far too much to pay for a video game in my opinion...I almost felt silly shelling out $130 for my DFGT, and I never even considered the more expensive logitech offerings, luckily, it seems.
 
stefanOst
I don't know if quality issues will also be seen with the thrustmaster wheels, but personally, I wouldn't have that high of expectations for it...which is aside from the fact that $600 is far too much to pay for a video game in my opinion...I almost felt silly shelling out $130 for my DFGT, and I never even considered the more expensive logitech offerings, luckily, it seems.
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For me spending $2000 for a HDTV is too much but I know a few who has. Then again I spent $800 for my HDTV and there are those who tells me that is too much for a TV and they are satisfied with their SDTV. You can watch something just as easily on a SDTV that you can on a HDTV.

The exact same with wheels. DFGT does the job just like X360 wireless wheel. But if you like to have a nicer wheel ( like HDTV) you have to spend more money on it. There is nothing wrong with being satisfied with what you have as it's much cheaper in the long run.
 
To the OP, this is how business opperates, Thrustmaster obviously brought something to the table that Logitech couldn't or wouldn't.

And since PD/Sony never stated that the G25/27 would be fully supported they have done nothing wrong, pretty simple really.

Might not seem right or fair for anyone that has bought a G27 especially for GT5, but no promises or laws have been broken, although I do recall seeing a few people on here offering advice to prospective buyers that it "should work ok".

And let me ask, do the Fanatec wheels suffer these problems? If not then this whole thread is a red herring !
 
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NooktheCrook
Thanks for contributing to this thread.
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Oh I did contribute, with my opinion, to which I'm entitled as much as you are.
For the ones that can't read between the lines, lemme spell it out. This has the same solidity of the usual conspiracy theory: vague spin, lots of conjecture, and absolutely no evidence.

And in any case, I don't remember anyone of the parties involved promising full compatibility for the G27 with GT5, in any promotional or informational material. If you bought a G27 exclusively for GT5, then you can blame yourself only for buying the wrong wheel blindly.

I'm sorry if the existance of such an opinion makes you mad.

On second thought, I'm not really that sorry.
 
While there are certainly signs that point to the possibility of collusion, there are some things that would negate this.

Remember, as early as GT5P, we were having issues with the loss of force-feedback as compared to GT4. And there were compatibility issues with the G25 (covered by the system reading it as a DFGT) and other signs that Polyphony Digital and Logitech were not both going in the same direction with Gran Turismo and the Logitech wheel.

It's entirely possible for GT5 to not have the same hardware compatibilities as GT5P. They're not exactly the same game.

Do I believe it possible for the company to alter lines of code in GT5 specifically to disallow full compatibility? Yes.

Do I believe that they did? No. They didn't have to.

Not all wheels are built the same. There is no practical reason for the button maps for new Logitech wheels to not be 100% compatible with older Logitech wheels. Yet they aren't. That's the long and short of it. Video games are made to be as compatible with as many peripherals as possible, but if a developer decides not to focus on minor button functionality for one peripheral while developing an in-depth force-feedback system for another, that's their call, isn't it?

Yes. Nobody ever promised 100% compatibility between the G27 and GT5. They didn't even promise full compatibility for GT5P. Annoying, but them's the breaks. It could be worse.

And when they do patch it... whoops... there goes that theory...
 
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No46_TheDoctor
To the OP, this is how business opperates, Thrustmaster obviously brought something to the table that Logitech couldn't or wouldn't.

And since PD/Sony never stated that the G25/27 would be fully supported they have done nothing wrong, pretty simple really.

Might not seem right or fair for anyone that has bought a G27 especially for GT5, but no promises or laws have been broken, although I do recall seeing a few people on here offering advice to prospective buyers that it "should work ok".

And let me ask, do the Fanatec wheels suffer these problems? If not then this whole thread is a red herring !
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Fanatec "PS3 mode" is nothing but "Logitech G25 mode". In fact if you use this mode on the PC the Logitech profiler (as well as Fanatec profiler) sees the Fanatec wheel as a G25.
 
Niky, if they patch it before the thrustmaster release I would agree.
 
There's no way way you can defend PD for doing nothing wrong because it didn't promise full support of the G25/G27.

It is self-proclaimed the real driving simulator and tailored to the "serious" crowd, the G25/G27 has been a staple in mid-level sim racing wheels and has been for some time, it is not the most popular wheel, but it is still very popular.

Support for G25/G27 should be mandatory, given that this game sells multi-millions and has full AAA budget, it is indeed an exception among racing sims that a wheel this popular isn't fully supported.

When even arcade titles like Grid and Project Gotham has full support and even allows some fine tuning options, GT falling short in this regard can only be a marketing tactic, or the entire team has been developing the game stoned to their eyeballs.

It is a MUST, it's the business's standard, there's no excuse. Especially when the software driving Logitech hardware already exists and they only need to create a profile for it....that's half day's work.
 
Funny thing, if Fanatec can give their wheel a G25 emulation mode, why couldn't Logitech do the same for the G27? :lol:

And just because a PC is a must-have item for the sim-racing crowd, doesn't mean GT5 has to be released on the PC, either.

A lot of people like to say "it must have this", "it must have that". Yup. Lack of a lot of "must haves" really hurt the iPad.

A product is a product. It'll do what it'll do. If it has no good points, people won't buy it. Plain and simple.

Abriael
Oh I did contribute, with my opinion, to which I'm entitled as much as you are.
For the ones that can't read between the lines, lemme spell it out. This has the same solidity of the usual conspiracy theory: vague spin, lots of conjecture, and absolutely no evidence.

And in any case, I don't remember anyone of the parties involved promising full compatibility for the G27 with GT5, in any promotional or informational material. If you bought a G27 exclusively for GT5, then you can blame yourself only for buying the wrong wheel blindly.

I'm sorry if the existance of such an opinion makes you mad.

On second thought, I'm not really that sorry.
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Of course, it would help if said opinion was stated in a manner that is conducive to further discussion, as it is here. Previous post and response deleted... because while their relation to this topic may be apparent upon reading between the lines, the lines themselves have to be on topic or the post won't stay there.

Let's not get into a tiff boys. Discuss like gentlemen.
 
niky
Of course, it would help if said opinion was stated in a manner that is conducive to further discussion, as it is here. Previous post and response deleted... because while their relation to this topic may be apparent upon reading between the lines, the lines themselves have to be on topic or the post won't stay there.

Let's not get into a tiff boys. Discuss like gentlemen.
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I would say that assembling a whole conspiracy theory to accuse people of business misconduct and conspiracy-like behavioirs without a shred of evidence is not exactly "gentlemanlike" as well.
 

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