Difference between GT6 and LFS

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IHaveNoXbox88
What exactly is the difference between GT6 drifting and LFS drifting?
I use a wheel in both games, but I just can't drift with my DFP in GT6, but in LFS it is way easier!
Video of me back then (LFS).....
 
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GT6's physics seems VERY inconsistent while drifting, you get snap back and over-steer thrown at you constantly whatever you do with the car's set-up :/. After three years of GT5 drifting it's a real shame, and I am very tempted to head back to GT5 for some awesome drifting. I also have played a fair bit of LFS and it's awesome! I just get annoyed at how fast the tyres wear and become super slidey. [DFGT USER]

 
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GODfreyGT5
GT6's physics seems VERY inconsistent while drifting, you get snap back and over-steer thrown at you constantly whatever you do with the car's set-up :/. After three years of GT5 drifting it's a real shame, and I am very tempted to head back to GT5 for some awesome drifting. I also have played a fair bit of LFS and it's awesome! I just get annoyed at how fast the tyres wear and become super slidey. [DFGT USER]

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True, there is a lot of snapback. When I try to straight it out after a corner, I spin out!!!! I quit GT6 drifting and just waiting for 1.04...
 
GT6 drifting is really hard ,but after handred of circuits practice i adapt it .
i don't know whether GT5 or LFS drifting much more like real life , i will now get back to it ,because i can handle GT6 drifting now....
 
ZorroIsHere
GT6 drifting is really hard ,but after handred of circuits practice i adapt it .
i don't know whether GT5 or LFS drifting much more like real life , i will now get back to it ,because i can handle GT6 drifting now....
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GT6 drifting is just too hard for me, any tips?
 
i don't know whether 1.04 fix it or i drift better...i feel the snap out bug that don't bother me now in 1.04...
and i don't think PD will tell us if they really fix the snap out "bug" what made them looks stupid.
 
driftnick13
LFS is realistic, GT6 is not, that's all you need to know :P
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Except it ISN'T LOL All you have to do is watch a replay and look at how the front wheels behave to see that GT6 has much more accurate physics. People say GT6 is bad because they can't do it, well I'd be willing to bet the same people couldn't do it real life either :) It's got far more to do with people's egos than it has to do with actual facts.
 
TwinturboCH
Except it ISN'T LOL All you have to do is watch a replay and look at how the front wheels behave to see that GT6 has much more accurate physics. People say GT6 is bad because they can't do it, well I'd be willing to bet the same people couldn't do it real life either :) It's got far more to do with people's egos than it has to do with actual facts.
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can you explain what the front wheels are doing that is wrong? btw i can drift just fine in GT6, doesn't make it realistic and by just fine I mean having to change the way I drive to work around GT's weird FFB/physics.
 
Convergent
GT6 drifting is just too hard for me, any tips?
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I believe the snap oversteer issue has been fixed, either that or i've tuned it out. Try comfort soft/medium tires if you are still struggling, they seemed to get rid of the issues when I was having a hard time at the beginning
 
driftnick13
can you explain what the front wheels are doing that is wrong? btw i can drift just fine in GT6, doesn't make it realistic and by just fine I mean having to change the way I drive to work around GT's weird FFB/physics.
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The front wheels in LFS don't always point in the direction of travel while on throttle, this indicates that there is some 'flexibility' in the physics which would cause a mistake in real life.
When you say that, do you mean that you change your driving compared to real life? Or change your driving compared to LFS? I only ask, as I film myself drifting regularly at our Academy, and I don't see any difference between my inputs in a 450bhp M3 in GT6 compared to my inputs in my M3 in real life. The same inputs garner the same response from the vehicle. I can't find a difference, and I'm doing my best to find one, but this really is as 'true-to-life' as I've managed to find. It requires the same amount of precision as drifting a lightweight/high-power car in real life. I'm always happy to listen to reason and debate as, contrary to popular belief, I'm not a fan boy, just a real world competition drifter looking for the best training tool I can find. I DO NOT feel like either RFactor or LFS can teach me anything about my driving, the same is NOT true of GT6. :)
 
One thing I don't understand...

I enter a corner and feel I'm going to over rotate, so I chuck some extra lock on and lift off... The car keeps rotating and spins!


This doesn't always happen, it seems to happen more with bone stock cars.

I can only think that it's weight transfer and I've been slightly too late with the countersteer.

I also encounter it sometimes when mid-drift, part - full throttle holding the angle nicely round the right line, then I want to extend the drift out of the corner into the straight, so again, add some lock and lift slightly to get the front to move away from the apex, and the weight transfer just sends the back round as the front loads up and takes weight off the rear.

I've been Drifting on gt5 and lfs for a few years now, never encountered such behaviour.

I can only imagine it's more realistic, and the reason most professional drift cars are tuned to 'understeer' at the natural limit, but makes them stable and controlable when sideways.

Am I thinking along the right lines or am I being silly?
 
FussyFez
One thing I don't understand...

I enter a corner and feel I'm going to over rotate, so I chuck some extra lock on and lift off... The car keeps rotating and spins!


This doesn't always happen, it seems to happen more with bone stock cars.

I can only think that it's weight transfer and I've been slightly too late with the countersteer.

I also encounter it sometimes when mid-drift, part - full throttle holding the angle nicely round the right line, then I want to extend the drift out of the corner into the straight, so again, add some lock and lift slightly to get the front to move away from the apex, and the weight transfer just sends the back round as the front loads up and takes weight off the rear.

I've been Drifting on gt5 and lfs for a few years now, never encountered such behaviour.

I can only imagine it's more realistic, and the reason most professional drift cars are tuned to 'understeer' at the natural limit, but makes them stable and controlable when sideways.

Am I thinking along the right lines or am I being silly?
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The tires are to blame, hahaha...
 
It happens with various compounds.

I've pretty much convinced myself it's to do with setup.

I can powerslide these cars, but it's when I'm trying to actually drift them that I get issues. It happens a lot less in cars that have a bit of a setup going on..
 
L.S.D makes a car drift easier .
But, is a stock car in real world really hard to drift just like in GT6 without L.S.D ??
I don't think so...
 
As I say, it doesn't always happen. Sometimes I get snap back because I've over corrected, or lifted off too much, or both. But it seems to happen when I'm expecting the opposite.
 
FussyFez
One thing I don't understand...

I enter a corner and feel I'm going to over rotate, so I chuck some extra lock on and lift off... The car keeps rotating and spins!


This doesn't always happen, it seems to happen more with bone stock cars.

I can only think that it's weight transfer and I've been slightly too late with the countersteer.

I also encounter it sometimes when mid-drift, part - full throttle holding the angle nicely round the right line, then I want to extend the drift out of the corner into the straight, so again, add some lock and lift slightly to get the front to move away from the apex, and the weight transfer just sends the back round as the front loads up and takes weight off the rear.

I've been Drifting on gt5 and lfs for a few years now, never encountered such behaviour.

I can only imagine it's more realistic, and the reason most professional drift cars are tuned to 'understeer' at the natural limit, but makes them stable and controlable when sideways.

Am I thinking along the right lines or am I being silly?
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You are exactly correct. The problem is caused by something called 'ackerman' which most people don't understand. It is the difference in turn rate between the inside and outside wheel. This increases as you increase the amount of lock applied and so causes more 'drag' or 'braking effect' on the front as you go more and more sideways, making a 'normal' car more and more unstable as you get more sideways, hence why most road cars like M3's etc are most stable at about half a turn of opposite lock. To counter this in a drift car, we reduce ackerman by modifying our hubs (some even run 'zero' ackerman, but I'm not a fan as it totally changes the way a car drives), running more front camber and increasing track width. In GT6, the only option available to us is to use camber, so if you are finding the car is not very stable on big angle and keeps 'getting away from you' try increasing you front camber slightly (I run 4.0 minimum on all my cars, both real and GT6) but this may require you to soften the front slightly to stop the increased camber causing turn-in understeer.

If that doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain in more detail. :)


ZorroIsHere
L.S.D makes a car drift easier .
But, is a stock car in real world really hard to drift just like in GT6 without L.S.D ??
I don't think so...
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No, but you are oversimplifying it. A PROPER diff will improve a real cars handling, just like it will in GT6. A stock diff will drift in GT6, but transitions and breaking are harder because the diff is not as consistant, just like in real life ;)
 
TwinturboCH
You are exactly correct. The problem is caused by something called 'ackerman' which most people don't understand. It is the difference in turn rate between the inside and outside wheel. This increases as you increase the amount of lock applied and so causes more 'drag' or 'braking effect' on the front as you go more and more sideways, making a 'normal' car more and more unstable as you get more sideways, hence why most road cars like M3's etc are most stable at about half a turn of opposite lock. To counter this in a drift car, we reduce ackerman by modifying our hubs (some even run 'zero' ackerman, but I'm not a fan as it totally changes the way a car drives), running more front camber and increasing track width. In GT6, the only option available to us is to use camber, so if you are finding the car is not very stable on big angle and keeps 'getting away from you' try increasing you front camber slightly (I run 4.0 minimum on all my cars, both real and GT6) but this may require you to soften the front slightly to stop the increased camber causing turn-in understeer.

If that doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain in more detail. :)



No, but you are oversimplifying it. A PROPER diff will improve a real cars handling, just like it will in GT6. A stock diff will drift in GT6, but transitions and breaking are harder because the diff is not as consistant, just like in real life ;)
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That makes perfect sense, Thankyou for explaining. I have heard of ackerman, just never had it explained.

I hadn't been using any camber as of yet as I have felt the lack of grip it gives to some cars.

Have you not experience the grip fall off when running even mild camber ?

I used to run similar amounts of camber to you on my drift cars in gt5, but I'm not having the same result in 6.

I don't currently have my copy of GT, but when I get it back from my friend, I'll have a play around and see what 1.03 is like...

ETA

Did a quick Google and found this interesting piece on wiki

Modern cars do not use pure Ackermann steering, partly because it ignores important dynamic and compliant effects, but the principle is sound for low-speed manoeuvres. Some race cars use reverseAckermann geometry to compensate for the large difference in slip angle between the inner and outer front tyres while cornering at high speed. The use of such geometry helps reduce tyre temperatures during high-speed cornering but compromises performance in low-speed maneuvers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry
 
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LFS would be THE game, if it had licenses for many cars and if the tyre wear was different, i.e. slower and the tyres wouldn't heat up way too fast. GT5 atlest had consistant physics, GT6 will just constantly screw the handling during drifting with random grip changes and such things.

I'm just dreaming of GT6 with LFS physics except for the tyre wear and the world would be a bit better.
 
I drive a GTS Skyline in real life - it has a viscious LSD and no rear sway bar and yet I can drift it all night long - however in GT6 as soon as weight transfers fully onto one side the tyres immediately give in and the car spins.. if my car did this in real life I'd demand the previous owner refund me my money!

Now there are ways around this - namely focusing on minimalising sudden and/or extreme weight transfer but it makes drifting much slower because you need to take it so much more gingerly - even extremely firm suspension set ups have this problem as I've been experimenting with all manner of different set ups.

I've just about given up on GT6, drifting in real life is getting very expensive for me but at least it's more enjoyable..
 
What does your setups look like?

I ask because all my cars are 1500kg and heavier, and on tracks with quick switchback sections (final turns at willow) I clutch kick transition (Ueo), which snaps the car in the opposite direction but I don't spin. This is done on ch, realistic alignment and springrate, full weight 330-450hp cars.
 
FussyFez
I hadn't been using any camber as of yet as I have felt the lack of grip it gives to some cars.

Have you not experience the grip fall off when running even mild camber ?

I used to run similar amounts of camber to you on my drift cars in gt5, but I'm not having the same result in 6.
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Camber and the amount of roll your car has are directly linked. The stiffer your front end is, the less camber you can run. I like to run a soft setup usually (again in both GT6 and real life) because you can get more traction and be more aggressive with the car. However, as you stiffen, you have to run less camber. For instance, a lot of competition drift cars run no front anti-roll bar, this allows more roll, meaning you can make use of much great camber. So in GT6, if I have to run the car too stiff to use good camber, I soften the anti-roll bar on the front :) Every tuning parameter has an impact on another, so you can't just say 'run 4 degrees camber on any setup' because you will have to tune springs and arbs to match camber on any given car. It takes a lot of practice to get a car perfectly dialled and this is another reason I love GT6, the realism is insane. Unfortunately, because people are struggling, their ego's would rather let their brain think it is a problem with the game and not a problem with their inputs.


monsterGAUZ
GT6 will just constantly screw the handling during drifting with random grip changes and such things.
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I've not found this at any point, I found it a pain to start with, but the simple fact is that it is a perfect match for real life except for one thing.
In GT6 you have two sets of feedback. 1) your eye and ears 2) the feedback through the wheel
In real life you have three sets of feedback. 1) your eyes and ears 2) the feedback through the wheel 3) g force.
Being able to drift in real life first means people learn to rely on the g-force aspect, once that is taken away, everything feels alien and wrong. I did it the other way, learned in games and then went to real life, so I do far more with the two which we use 'in-game'. Basically, if you can learn to drift in GT6, drifting in real life is EASY. The inputs are all EXACTLY the same as real life, except you have added feeling from the g-force, meaning that suddenly you have a huge amount more awareness of what the car is doing.

UrieHusky
I drive a GTS Skyline in real life - it has a viscious LSD and no rear sway bar and yet I can drift it all night long - however in GT6 as soon as weight transfers fully onto one side the tyres immediately give in and the car spins.. if my car did this in real life I'd demand the previous owner refund me my money!
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See above :) It's because you can 'feel' the car and chassis behavior in real life, everything else is the same :)



I am seriously contemplating trying to run a GT Academy style competition for drifting in Europe through my drift academy. To try to take some of the best drifters on GT6 and see if I can find one to make into a drifter in real life........ It would be awesome to see if I'm right or not. I just can't work out how to make a quantifiable and fair qualifying format.
 

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