DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

218
Slovenia
Slovenia
Jimmy's vid.


Considering this "stage degradation" bar we see at the service area, I'm wondering, if the stage actually degrades dynamically or it was all pre-modelled and there are basically only three levels.:odd:
 
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MagpieRacer

Premium
14,546
England
Wymondham, Norfolk
Seagull_Racer
Considering this "stage degradation" bar we see at the service area, I'm wondering, if the stage actually degrades dynamically or it was all pre-modelled and there are basically only three levels.:odd:

There's 150 levels of degradation. The three levels on the screen give you an idea of what to expect.
 

MagpieRacer

Premium
14,546
England
Wymondham, Norfolk
Seagull_Racer
So it is not real-time degradation.

No, it never claimed to be. It's as close as we'll get for now though. No other rally game has even attempted it so I'll take it over nothing. Events will have 20-100 cars from what I've seen so 150 levels is enough for it to feel dynamic.

Time will tell though how different each level will feel, Jimmy's video really shows how ruts can effect the car so it will be interesting to see someone drive on the most degraded stage possible to see the difference in time and difficulty .
 
939
Switzerland
Zürich
Considering this "stage degradation" bar we see at the service area, I'm wondering, if the stage actually degrades dynamically or it was all pre-modelled and there are basically only three levels.:odd:

This is probably it, and I wouldn't expect it to be more honestly.

From a mathematical point of view simulating tarmac driving is relatively easy - the ground is a solid object and when in contact with a tire there's a coefficient of friction - plug the numbers in, the resultant numbers come out and you're done - OK it's not that simple by a long shot, but the point I'm making is that the track surface is always solid, and the tire track interface can be calculated with relative ease.

Rally on snow, gravel, compacted dirt, mud etc is a completely different and way more complicated ball game. You have track surfaces that behave as solid when a little force is applied, semi solids when more force is applied, and like fluids when a lot of force is applied. To model fluid dynamics accurately still requires supercomputers, and even then it's not always possible in real time depending on the complexity of the modelling simulation. The thing about fluid dynamics is that they need to be simulated - you can't just plug a set of numbers in one end and get a solution at the other end - exactly like the n-body problem.

Consoles and PCs cannot even begin to do fluid dynamics in anything even beginning to approach real time, at all. So, every rally game that's existed so far is very much a loose approximation of what actually happens with the tire and track surface, so asking for dynamic track degradation is basically like asking for the moon on a stick, and then some.
 

MagpieRacer

Premium
14,546
England
Wymondham, Norfolk
Seagull_Racer
This is probably it, and I wouldn't expect it to be more honestly.

From a mathematical point of view simulating tarmac driving is relatively easy - the ground is a solid object and when in contact with a tire there's a coefficient of friction - plug the numbers in, the resultant numbers come out and you're done - OK it's not that simple by a long shot, but the point I'm making is that the track surface is always solid, and the tire track interface can be calculated with relative ease.

Rally on snow, gravel, compacted dirt, mud etc is a completely different and way more complicated ball game. You have track surfaces that behave as solid when a little force is applied, semi solids when more force is applied, and like fluids when a lot of force is applied. To model fluid dynamics accurately still requires supercomputers, and even then it's not always possible in real time depending on the complexity of the modelling simulation. The thing about fluid dynamics is that they need to be simulated - you can't just plug a set of numbers in one end and get a solution at the other end - exactly like the n-body problem.

Consoles and PCs cannot even begin to do fluid dynamics in anything even beginning to approach real time, at all. So, every rally game that's existed so far is very much a loose approximation of what actually happens with the tire and track surface, so asking for dynamic track degradation is basically like asking for the moon on a stick, and then some.

The closest I've ever seen to this is Sega Rally 2007 which had real time deformation, albeit in an arcade based racer which will have had plenty of physical overhead to achieve it.

Good thing is, now this is a thing, it shows promise for physical real time deformation being a possibility for next gen perhaps.
 
2,055
Italy
Milan, Italy
paulpg87
Custom championships rally mode has 12 slots even if now you can select only 6 rallies. They will Be 9 by May and i am sure up to 12 with Wales, finland and Greece by the end of the year.

However i didn't get how difficulty level works in career mode.
 
3,026
Netherlands
The Netherlands
MarcoM1972
Custom championships rally mode has 12 slots even if now you can select only 6 rallies. They will Be 9 by May and i am sure up to 12 with Wales, finland and Greece by the end of the year.

However i didn't get how difficulty level works in career mode.

Thanks for spotting. Makes sense really!
 
243
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I think Wrc 8 is the better choice even though it’s not out till September. I think I’m skipping on dirt rally 2.0

What's that based on, just out of interest? Doesn't seem like there's anything to judge WRC8 on (apart from WRC7) at the moment. WRC7 had more stage kilometres, but IMO it had worse stage design (bar a couple of stages), car selection (bar one class), game modes, sound (big one for me), effects, graphics/effects, FFB and handling.
 
2,055
Italy
Milan, Italy
paulpg87
I think Wrc 8 is the better choice even though it’s not out till September. I think I’m skipping on dirt rally 2.0

Imo the best option will be dirt2 after all the DLC seasons with 12 rallies, which is similar to what a full wrc season can offer.

Personally i will buy both (under the condition DLC for dirt Will Be properly integrated in career mode.
 
2,055
Italy
Milan, Italy
paulpg87
What's that based on, just out of interest? Doesn't seem like there's anything to judge WRC8 on (apart from WRC7) at the moment. WRC7 had more stage kilometres, but IMO it had worse stage design (bar a couple of stages), car selection (bar one class), game modes, sound (big one for me), effects, graphics/effects, FFB and handling.

Actually i found WRC 7 stages ti Be superb. Agree on the rest but It was overall a good game.
 

MagpieRacer

Premium
14,546
England
Wymondham, Norfolk
Seagull_Racer
Actually i found WRC 7 stages ti Be superb. Agree on the rest but It was overall a good game.

I'm with @Rodger Davies on that. Some of the stages are a master class in stage design but some just lack something. Also find some of them are very dark. But I do enjoy driving the WRC2 class cars in the game.
 

Wolfe

Physics Critic
Premium
13,549
United States
Wisconsin
What's that based on, just out of interest? Doesn't seem like there's anything to judge WRC8 on (apart from WRC7) at the moment. WRC7 had more stage kilometres, but IMO it had worse stage design (bar a couple of stages), car selection (bar one class), game modes, sound (big one for me), effects, graphics/effects, FFB and handling.
Aside from stage design, stage diversity (or an unacceptable lack of it) outweighs all those other things combined, though. For those of us critical of Codemasters' decision to return to their old stage design method, that's the whole point.
 
336
United States
Brookyln
I just got it. I was going to wait for a sale since I just want to play rally cross. And wait fir Wrc 8 for rally courses. I’m 1 hour in and I like it all so far.
 

fernandito

(Banned)
797
Spain
Spain
From the Winter Wonderland release notes:

"Here’s the rundown of other stuff that’s new this month:
  • The Group B RWD, Hillclimb and Kit Cars have been upgraded to v2 handling.
  • Now that all cars are up to v2 spec, the Self Aligning Torque has been re-balanced to support the new handling"
I really really was thinking i was still playing on the legacy physics with group A. You got me there, although I still feel there's something different to them, but at this point must be just placebo.

After this I can only help but to show the hours played on dr1 lol, as the doubt may have arisen obviously:
dwqge0.png

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On topic, anyone seen the stream yesterday?, physics don't look that bad:


as well as tarmac ain't looking that bad depending on the car. Need more rallies though, in three months ok
 
192
Sweden
Kalmar
bogani
I really really was thinking i was still playing on the legacy physics with group A. You got me there, although I still feel there's something different to them, but at this point must be just placebo.

After this I can only help but to show the hours played on dr1 lol, as the doubt may have arisen obviously:
dwqge0.png

_______________________________________________________________________________________
On topic, anyone seen the stream yesterday?, physics don't look that bad:


as well as tarmac ain't looking that bad depending on the car. Need more rallies though, in three months ok


Wasn't really aiming to 'get you' :P

In some cars tarmac feels ok, but some cars just isn't very good on tarmac at this point.

It'll be interesting to see when Germany drops as those roads are similar to the one we did the handling tests on. The cars felt fine there.
I guess the tarmac tire model isn't coping very well with the undulations and cambers of Spain for some reason.