DLC is ruining content of games

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Some forms of DLC is good. Some Not.
Online Pass BAD. What happens if you buy a used game that requires it???
Extra cars & Tracks/Maps are good but do they have to be so damn expensive?
Sony is getting lots of money :lol:
 
Some forms of DLC is good. Some Not.
Online Pass BAD. What happens if you buy a used game that requires it???
Extra cars & Tracks/Maps are good but do they have to be so damn expensive?
Sony is getting lots of money :lol:

That's what I was thinking. If you want to play online (which of course you would because playing offline gets boring after a while), then you have to buy the game brand new instead of used. This is intended so people pay the full price of buying a game new instead of buying it used.
 
That's what I was thinking. If you want to play online (which of course you would because playing offline gets boring after a while), then you have to buy the game brand new instead of used. This is intended so people pay the full price of buying a game new instead of buying it used.
Sounds like they are just going into our wallet and burning our money :ouch:
 
^^^ Apparently, that's the future of gaming :(

Some forms of DLC is good. Some Not.
Online Pass BAD. What happens if you buy a used game that requires it???
Extra cars & Tracks/Maps are good but do they have to be so damn expensive?
Sony is getting lots of money :lol:
True


They'd get twice as much if we got race tracks each DLC release, instead of only the first time. There are a lot of people that would prefer a new track than a few cars, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. There are so many cars to choose from to use on one track. It used to be the other way around for me. There's greater longevity/more replayability in having an added track, at least, in my eyes.
 
Some forms of DLC is good. Some Not.
Online Pass BAD. What happens if you buy a used game that requires it???
Extra cars & Tracks/Maps are good but do they have to be so damn expensive?
Sony is getting lots of money :lol:

That's what I was thinking. If you want to play online (which of course you would because playing offline gets boring after a while), then you have to buy the game brand new instead of used. This is intended so people pay the full price of buying a game new instead of buying it used.


Online pass is bad for us, but good for the publisher. Shops like Gamestop buy your used games for very little and sell them at huge markups. Sometimes the difference between new and used is only $5. And thats all profit for Gamestop the publishers don't get royalities on used games. Gamestop has been killing it with the used video game business for years, I really don't blame the publisher for wanting to stop people from buying used games. Wouldn't you rather have your money go to the publisher rather than Gamestop, it's only a few more bucks?
 
Online pass is bad for us, but good for the publisher. Shops like Gamestop buy your used games for very little and sell them at huge markups. Sometimes the difference between new and used is only $5. And thats all profit for Gamestop the publishers don't get royalities on used games. Gamestop has been killing it with the used video game business for years, I really don't blame the publisher for wanting to stop people from buying used games. Wouldn't you rather have your money go to the publisher rather than Gamestop, it's only a few more bucks?

This proves a very good point.
 
Sounds like they are just going into our wallet and burning our money :ouch:

There's nothing stopping you from buying a game used. It's just that if it requires an Online Pass to unlock multiplayer then you can't play online.

However, having a quick look at my online pass for Hot Pursuit, I noticed that if you lose it or require another online pass for that game, you can request to buy another one at the need for speed site I think (didn't read everything that was on it). But something tells me that not all game publishers are going to be this generous :nervous: . Gaming is becoming an increasingly expensive hobby.
 
Online passes are eliminating the used game sellers like Gamestop because the publishers don't make any profit on a game being resold (or re-resold).
 
Online passes are eliminating the used game sellers like Gamestop because the publishers don't make any profit on a game being resold (or re-resold).

Or re-re-re-re-re-re-re-resold 👍 .

(Sorry, just had to let that one out :ouch: )
 
I would have liked to test out Route X before I bought it. Spa was sort of like this when it was first released. People got to use it online as long as the host had it. As of right now Route X gets no playing time from me.

Same goes with the DLC cars. They already have them available in the show room and you can even start the demo on them. I wish we could do a little 5 minute test drive before we decide on if we wanted to buy them or not.

I have no problem paying for DLC. I buy DLC for most of the other games I have. But I do have to say. IMO, since the first DLC came out, the rest have been mediocre at best.
 
Who agrees that this thread should be locked up?
I agree.

This thread does nothing but create friction. Lock away!

You three aren't staff members, the mods are more than capable of making that choice without the peanut gallery. Further more, if you think it should be locked so bad but it hasn't, then why post here? If you don't like it wouldn't it be smart to just ignore this thread. It seems to me you guys are the types that just like to laugh at locked threads.

On Topic: @Nero

I agree with you part ways, what I don't agree with you upon is this idea that every game company is out to get you like some boogey man. I also don't agree the they are more likely to slack in their dedication or work. There are plenty of groups like EA that would have taken all the patches of PD and put them into a few new games to make a profit rather than free.

I agree some groups (very limited) may with hold parts of games, however we don't know if the game was green lighted for release before or after that item was built. If it couldn't make the game then DLC is the next option, but you think that it shouldn't be. What you're saying is if DLC is made after the games green light it should be patched into the game for free.

So these guys shouldn't get paid for their work after the games release, for extra content? With that thought every windows system since 98 should have been given to me for free.
 

There are many games with on-disc DLCs and it irks some customers, and others are fine with it. Perhaps it's these willing customers who are unknowningly exuberating the issue? Perhaps it's the $60 fixed price game industry? Maybe there are too many games out there, and customers want to buy all of them, but can't, so they wait for the inevitable price drop and/or ultimate edition that includes all DLCs at an even lower price?

In Japan MSRPs for high-level games are around ¥7800* (which puts it to around USD$97). Top-tier SNES games (Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger) were ¥10500 back in 1994 (which may well be $190 in 2012 dollars). Games were a luxury (and still are now), but developers got their dues and so they thanked us with bonus high quality content. But $60 in 2012 dollars means nothing to a developers and publishers. Maybe it's time to raise the price of games at the expense of sale numbers? Does it work? Will any publisher dare take such a risk?

*In most cases retailers like Bic and Yodobashi will price games close to these MSRPs. Online retailers like Amazon Japan offer prices almost 15-20% less than the MSRP, but it still totals above $60USD.

You're definitely upset about the state of things, but judging from the thread I also think you've more than made your point. The real question is: what now?
 


To be honest this is quite funny, and what I did agree with you on. I did say that companies who exploit their fans and/or buyers by releasing DLC that should probably be free are an issue. However, I also said that it's probably not the game makers that are at fault. With GT5 for example I'm sure Kaz wanted to give us a few other cars for free. However, Sony were probably a bit mad that PD didn't charge us for the cars that were given to us for free.

The problem I see is the big Sister companies that make these sort of calls in most cases. I've already said I agree, especially with GT5. The idea that we had to pay for a premium version of a car that was already standard in the game is asinine. Games that have this on a larger scale are an even bigger issue.

On a side not I don't think I ever answered your question. I do play story games, but usually I stick to MGS and others because I know of ME doing what you claim. Like I said earlier though, we don't know if this may be the case for ME 3, the first day DLC may be a number of things and not missing (yet highly required) game content needed to finish the game.
 
I've just popped into this thread, so please forgive me if I seem to be misinformed.

Content that comes with the disc for a game should just be free to the buyer. It's ridiculous for a consumer to have to purchase something to unlock a purchase from a purchase. It's just a cheap way of developers earning money.

This is most prominent game with this is Test Drive Unlimited 2. One of the biggest gripes I have with this game is that the Casino "add-on" already comes with the disc, but to unlock it, you'll have to pay at least $10, so 10+60=$70+.

On the other hand, games like Dirt 2/3 come with add-on content that simply unlocks everything in the game immediately. While this is slightly more acceptable, since you won't lose anything from not purchasing it, I still think that it's a cheap way of getting money from consumers.

Lastly, developers that add content to their games after they have been released should, in my opinion, get some sort of profit from it.
 
I come to this site to see about updates to GT5, and every time I see an announcement for DLC. People go crazy for and buy it blindly with out even thinking. The thing that gets me the most is this recent update they're coming out with, and people are talking about what should be in the game via a DLC? What is that? Wait for GT6, because all these cars that you're buying in these "DLCs" are going to be on there. I know some people are going to post in here, "If you don't like it, don't buy it," or "The developers need the money, this is a great service that they're doing for us!" That's not the point, developers are looking at games like Forza and the Call of Duty series and seeing what success they're having with ripping people off with content that should already be in the game, hell you can't blame them they're making a profit off people that just blindly put there money towards. I'm sure there's people out there that share the same frustrations as me. This is only going to get worse if YOU the consumer stop buying DLC.

Sign here if you think DLC is ruining the quality of games.

GT5 probably isn't the best game to argue about DLC ruining the quality of games. The first Motorstrom, where the directly said that they had left a lot out because they were going to focus on DLC stuffs, would be a good choice. Test Drive Unlimited 2 would be another good choice as they promised a bunch of DLC (again) and have run into a plethora of obstacles just to get the game running decently, and they're currently struggling to get the second batch of DLC items out.

But, then, there is the other side of the spectrum. Over there are games like Red Dead Redemption which had a GREAT main story and even better DLC. Or GTAIV...or LA Noire...pretty much anything Rockstar has touched recently has been gold with great DLC. And on that side of the spectrum, it's hard to see the validity of the "DLC is ruining game quality" argument.

However, there are some good points for the argument. But, I think it comes down to really the developer and not the gamers. Rockstar, BioWare and Turn10 have all proven that the quality of the game doesn't have to suffer for the sake of DLC, and, in fact, DLC should take a great game, and make it better. Yet, you have studios like Evolution Studios and others that rely so heavily on DLC, that the product is kinda half there. That's why Motorstorm kinda got mixed reviews. It was a great game, but....there's just not a lot of content out of the gate.

TDU2 suffers from a lot more than DLC reliance, but that is one of the big ones. The first TDU suffered from the same thing. (Although, I still think it was odd how T10 got their DLC stuffs out every month, but TDU1 was constantly delayed a month or so. Not sure who's fault that is, though.)

And those are just some examples of games from both sides of the argument.

EDIT: Sorry to micro-manage, but shouldn't this thread go in the "Other Games" forum.

EDIT 2: As for GT5, considering that Kaz himself said that they were focusing on game quality first and foremost, then additional features and then, maybe DLC if they got around to, hence why GT5 didn't get any DLC for over a year after it's release, I would actually put GT5 in the "DLC doesn't ruin quality of games" side.

To be fair, the Forza franchise is lucky it's not on the "DLC ruins game quality" side since for the past two titles at least, they've been REALLY eager to get DLC stuffs out. I mean, they've released 10 cars a month since it's launch. But, obviously, T10 knows what they're doing and their DLC doesn't ruin the game.
 
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SuperShouden
GT5 probably isn't the best game to argue about DLC ruining the quality of games. The first Motorstrom, where the directly said that they had left a lot out because they were going to focus on DLC stuffs, would be a good choice. Test Drive Unlimited 2 would be another good choice as they promised a bunch of DLC (again) and have run into a plethora of obstacles just to get the game running decently, and they're currently struggling to get the second batch of DLC items out.

But, then, there is the other side of the spectrum. Over there are games like Red Dead Redemption which had a GREAT main story and even better DLC. Or GTAIV...or LA Noire...pretty much anything Rockstar has touched recently has been gold with great DLC. And on that side of the spectrum, it's hard to see the validity of the "DLC is ruining game quality" argument.

However, there are some good points for the argument. But, I think it comes down to really the developer and not the gamers. Rockstar, BioWare and Turn10 have all proven that the quality of the game doesn't have to suffer for the sake of DLC, and, in fact, DLC should take a great game, and make it better. Yet, you have studios like Evolution Studios and others that rely so heavily on DLC, that the product is kinda half there. That's why Motorstorm kinda got mixed reviews. It was a great game, but....there's just not a lot of content out of the gate.

TDU2 suffers from a lot more than DLC reliance, but that is one of the big ones. The first TDU suffered from the same thing. (Although, I still think it was odd how T10 got their DLC stuffs out every month, but TDU1 was constantly delayed a month or so. Not sure who's fault that is, though.)

And those are just some examples of games from both sides of the argument.

EDIT: Sorry to micro-manage, but shouldn't this thread go in the "Other Games" forum.

Im sure if it was meant to be moved the mods would have mentioned it.
 
I cringe when I read this. Can you not read? I'll spell it out for you; DLC RUINING QUALITY OF GAMES, QUALITY DROP BECAUSE OF DLC

Not really making a point, just ranting. I think the DLC is a welcome addition. I like most of the cars, I love Spa, it adds to the game, not detracts, so... yeah I don't agree with you at all, but apparently if I disagree, I'm either an idiot, or am unable to read...?

Think I summed it up nicely.👎
 
To be honest this is quite funny, and what I did agree with you on. I did say that companies who exploit their fans and/or buyers by releasing DLC that should probably be free are an issue. However, I also said that it's probably not the game makers that are at fault. With GT5 for example I'm sure Kaz wanted to give us a few other cars for free. However, Sony were probably a bit mad that PD didn't charge us for the cars that were given to us for free.

The problem I see is the big Sister companies that make these sort of calls in most cases. I've already said I agree, especially with GT5. The idea that we had to pay for a premium version of a car that was already standard in the game is asinine. Games that have this on a larger scale are an even bigger issue.

On a side not I don't think I ever answered your question. I do play story games, but usually I stick to MGS and others because I know of ME doing what you claim. Like I said earlier though, we don't know if this may be the case for ME 3, the first day DLC may be a number of things and not missing (yet highly required) game content needed to finish the game.


Oh, and Corvette ME3 does have day one DLC, I popped in the game yesterday and under the general trophies list was a DLC pack. Hell I noticed on the package it's self of the back it has all the stuff that's in the game and on the top right of the case, it said "add-on content." You can find these on almost all the games now.
 
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Yeah... see, that was already posted?

And... seeing as how GT5 has hundreds of premium cars, thousands of standard cars, a ton of tracks, free online multiplayer on release... none of this stuff is washing for me.

Maybe your just really poor and can't afford the new tracks/cars? That's cool, they haven't changed my enjoyment of the game, so you're not missing out on a lot. It's a nice option to have, and it hasn't ruined anything. If anything, I wish there was MORE content I could download. I'd love a huge track pack - you want to charge me for it? That's cool with me. Given the amount of money I paid for this game when it first came out, and the fact that I STILL play it all the time = complete and total freaking bargain.

For other games, this argument could be made - for GT5? No. You don't need any of the DLC to enjoy this massive game.
 
No.

DLC is GT5 is actual add-on content, not just unlocking content that is already in the game when you bought the disc.

You're totally disregarding my point. I'm using GT5 as an example and GT6 could turn into Forza 4 when it comes out as well. If you played the mainstream generic games that are out now, they have loads of DLC.

Yeah... see, that was already posted?

And... seeing as how GT5 has hundreds of premium cars, thousands of standard cars, a ton of tracks, free online multiplayer on release... none of this stuff is washing for me.

Maybe your just really poor and can't afford the new tracks/cars? That's cool, they haven't changed my enjoyment of the game, so you're not missing out on a lot. It's a nice option to have, and it hasn't ruined anything. If anything, I wish there was MORE content I could download. I'd love a huge track pack - you want to charge me for it? That's cool with me. Given the amount of money I paid for this game when it first came out, and the fact that I STILL play it all the time = complete and total freaking bargain.

For other games, this argument could be made - for GT5? No. You don't need any of the DLC to enjoy this massive game.

I play for 100%, and when I see those cars in the dealership, I feel I don't have 100%. Why is it PD releases new NASCARs and a Toyota 86 free of charge, and the standard Jaguar gets upgraded to premium at a cost?
 
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I play for 100%, and when I see those cars in the dealership, I feel I don't have 100%. Why is it PD releases new NASCARs and a Toyota 86 free of charge, and the standard Jaguar gets upgraded to premium at a cost?

Licensing.

And who cares about 100% if you're having fun driving. I've been playing since this game came out, and due to me mainly sticking to online and seasonals, I'm still not @ 100%.

Do I care? NOPE.
 
Wait, wasn't the DLC released a year after the game got released? This means there is no way the DLC content could of been in the main game. I don't mind this DLC, it's supporting the game way after release, which I like. The DLC I don't like is when they start removing content from the game to sell to you. Forza 4 for example had a muscle car pack as DLC on day one, and then sold pre-order cars as DLC too. This is true DLC content which is made way after the production of the game to increase longevity. Shame about the price mind.
 
Wait, wasn't the DLC released a year after the game got released? This means there is no way the DLC content could of been in the main game.


Exactly. Why do you think we always have had big updates the past few months right before DLC hits? So they can add the DLC content now and then you can have a "smooth" install when it comes time to release it to the public. Or at least, that is how I reckon it works.:sly:
 
You're totally disregarding my point. I'm using GT5 as an example and GT6 could turn into Forza 4 when it comes out as well. If you played the mainstream generic games that are out now, they have loads of DLC.

If GT6 came out more like FM4, DLC wise, I'd be only too happy (though I'd miss the lack of track updates, as FM4 has had none so far).

GT5's Collector/Signature Edition bonus cars, extras for those willing to give extra money to both Sony and PD? Cars already in the game, just with some gaudy stripes and slightly better performance stats. Add 10% power, take away 5% weight... roughly.

FM4's Limited Edition? Five exclusive cars that are only available with that edition (but are not at all needed to complete any portion of the game), as well as a BMW design car pack, plus all versions of the game made during the first production run came with a voucher for five more bonus cars and the 2012 M5. The Muscle Car pack was a freebie if you purchased either the LCE or the Season Pass.

The DLC packs after release, in both games? Same price and car count each month for Forza, with large variety each time, and one free two-car pack with the Veloster Turbo and rally car (the upcoming Porsche pack, while more money, is still slightly cheaper per-car than the norm). GT5's had the new tracks, but the car packs have been spotty (though I will definitely recognize the free cars we've so far been given in updates). The only one on a cheaper-per-car basis was the first, which was all just fantasy Touring Car versions of existing cars. Then there's the paint and racing outfit packs...

I've now spent roughly similar amounts on both games' DLC, and while it's pricey, it's worth it as I spend more time playing racing video games than any other kind, and in the grand scheme, that's a pretty cheap hobby. It's hard to say which one has more value, to me, though - for $30 more on GT5, I've got one great track, and a handful of interesting cars. For $30 in FM4, I've received 50 cars so far, with another 10 covered by my Season Pass for April, and I've enjoyed far more of them (though not all).

I bring up FM4 strictly for the DLC aspects, but I fail to see how either of the leading racing games of this generation are exactly awful exploiters of the DLC trend. It's not like the game can't function perfectly fine without the DLC packs.
 
Actually, the racing genre DLC wise falls into similar catagorys as say Rockband or Singstar.

Obviously Rockband, Singstar can't add every song on disc but the option to pick and mix is a good one.

Similarly GT, Forza can't offer every Car/Track combo known to Man either.

Not all is needed, just cater to your tastes.

Hope some understand my logic.
 
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