Do the wealthy, the businesses, abandon rioting, virus infected and indebted cities?

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Dotini

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Forum members are invited to post their own thoughts and evidence on the subject matter. If they have any.
 

Joey D

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Without regurgitating an editorial or article from some site, how do you explain how cities have endured for thousands of years, through war, famine, disease, tyrants, etc? Just because there's civil unrest in Seattle and there's a pandemic sweeping the globe doesn't mean Seattle will just disappear. Will some businesses close or leave? Sure. Will every business? No. Urban areas evolve, change, and adapt. There's no better place for an economic center than a city, it's been this way since humans quit being nomads and decided to lay down roots somewhere (thanks in part to beer I might add).

Once we're through COVID-19 and once the civil unrest dies down, people will pick right back up, after all, they need to live and work somewhere and rural areas just don't have the infrastructure to support it.
 

UKMikey

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Can you please rename this thread "Dotini's Echo Chamber" then? It would be more accurate.
"The CDS Thread", although lately I'm beginning to wonder whether this is "The CDS Forum".

Screenshot_20200605-034632_Chrome.jpg
 
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UKMikey

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God, I loved that movie when I was younger. Re-reading the synopsis, 6th-grade me really had garbage taste. :lol:
The CG is good for the time I guess. The thing I like the least is how the sassy girl character is magically Disneyfied into a sweet submissive "nice" girl at the end.
 

Dotini

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One million protesters are expected in the nation's capital this weekend. Trump will be bunkered somewhere. Evangelical Christians, VP and top generals, will be somewhere else in case it all goes south.

EZuFfLpUYAAKLje


Opinion
Are we on the brink of revolution?
Christine Adams, The Washington Post

The protests that have erupted across the U.S. following the brutal deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and others at the hands of the police fit a pattern of long-term structural problems meeting sudden crises that historically have shaped revolutions in the past.

As we grapple with what might change in the wake of covid-19 and unrest across the country, the case of the French Revolution of 1789 reminds us of the contested nature of social change. Revolutions do not necessarily erupt at the moment when people are most oppressed. Rather, revolutions have more often been the result of "rising expectations." Periods of progress followed by crushed hopes can be especially dangerous, leading to rage and violence.

In fact, those parts of France that had experienced the greatest improvement saw the most pronounced popular discontent in the late 1780s and these became centers of revolutionary activity. Tocqueville attributed this to King Louis XVI's (r. 1774-1793) relatively light hand over the country, and his desire to lessen the weight of absolutist rule: "For it is not always when things are going from bad to worse that revolutions break out. On the contrary, it oftener happens that when a people which has put up with an oppressive rule over a long period without protest suddenly finds the government relaxing its pressure, it takes up arms against it."


However, historians have identified other factors. Yes, the lives of many French people were improving in the second half of the 18th century as epidemic disease and food shortages became less common, allowing for a decline in mortality. Overseas and domestic trade increased over the course of the century, making consumer goods such as sugar and coffee more widely available; the slave trade and the labor of enslaved people on plantations in France's Caribbean colonies fueled the availability of these goods as well as French prosperity more generally. And Louis XVI, influenced by Enlightenment philosophy that called upon kings to rule in the interest of their subjects, did take into consideration the well-being of the French people. But things were not, in fact, going well in France in the years immediately preceding the Revolution in 1789.

The economy was in a downward spin. The Eden Treaty of 1786, negotiated to open trade between France and Great Britain, created terrible pressure on French industry and many thousands of textiles workers lost their jobs. The year 1788 was a terrible one for agriculture, and led to food shortages throughout the country, pushing many to leave home in search of employment. These roving bands of men triggered fear among the broader population already living close to the edge.

At the same time, the French government was grappling with bankruptcy, a legacy of its 18th-century wars, including its assistance to the American revolutionaries. The dire state of French finances was made public in 1786 when the last of the wartime taxes expired and it became clear the government was running a serious deficit. The controller-general tried to impose reforms to solve the fiscal crisis, including a broad-based tax, but was met with stiff resistance. The decision to call the Estates General to bring about financial and political reform, including a new constitution for the country, provided the catalyst for social unrest and violence, including the storming of the Bastille and the Great Fear, a series of peasant riots fueled by panic and conspiracy theories that spread across the French countryside in the summer of 1789.

The grim situation that the French faced in 1788 was made even worse by the fact that those suffering knew that life could be better. Why? Because they had a glimpse into a better future. The popularization of Enlightenment literature that critiqued inequalities in the social and political system along with the politicization of the French citizenry that had accompanied elections of the Estates General convinced many French men and women that political representation and a more just polity could bring about genuine change.

This fuller picture conforms to the late sociologist James Chowning Davies's theory of political revolutions, which suggests that revolutions are a response to a downturn in the economy after a significant period of growth that allows individuals to envision a more promising future. A population subjected to unmitigated poverty and oppression cannot imagine a better alternative, and consequently, is unlikely to revolt. However, as life begins to improve and a happier life is conceivable, a sudden reversal of fortune can seem unbearable and trigger revolutionary activity.

This theory offers one way of thinking about the outbreak of revolution in France in 1789. The economic crisis of the years 1787-1788 created new and insufferable hardship throughout the country while a changing political culture, informed by Enlightenment philosophy, convinced many people that a more capable government could alleviate the hardship of its citizens. Rising expectations, dashed by economic downturn and royal incompetence, meant that the people of France were ready to take to the streets.

This theory may be playing out once again today. The gains of the civil rights movement made it possible to imagine that a future of racial equality was within reach. And when Barack Obama became president, it represented to many a powerful symbol of progress. But enduring inequality and police violence, and a highly visible white backlash that emerged in response to Obama's election have been crushing. The covid-19 pandemic and the collapse of the economy have thrown into prominence the sharp disparities in this country, and exacerbated the stress and anguish of those suddenly facing economic catastrophe. These dashed expectations of a better life made recent incidents of police brutality, assertion of white privilege and other acts of racial violence all the more intolerable. It is not surprising that the murder of George Floyd was the match that lit the fuse.
https://www.thehour.com/opinion/article/Are-we-on-the-brink-of-revolution-15316674.php
 

Dotini

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With numbers like that you're on the brink of a second Coronavirus wave before the first one's even finished.
Very possible. I repeat my call for an instant $14 trillion in reparations.
 

Dotini

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That's 2/3s of the entire US economy so good luck with that.
When Carroll Shelby beat old man Ferrari, he did it with cubic inches and cubic money. That's still a good plan.

 
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PeterJB

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When Carroll Shelby beat old man Ferrari, he did it with cubic inches and cubic money. That's still a good plan.


Is this the same $14 trillion we're meant to give to African-Americans for slavery or are we compensating each of these million protesters $14 million each if they give themselves COVID-19?
 
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Riots are not nice. Oppression of people, police brutality and imbalance of distribution of power and wealth between people is not nice either, and that usually leads to trouble. Moving from one neighbourhood to another will not fix the problem. Focus on fixing the systemic flaws, that are the root causes of the problem. Because if you can't fix the systemic problems you are facing, you have bigger concerns down the road than your house depreciating a bit.
 

ryzno

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Riots are not nice. Oppression of people, police brutality and imbalance of distribution of power and wealth between people is not nice either, and that usually leads to trouble. Moving from one neighbourhood to another will not fix the problem. Focus on fixing the systemic flaws, that are the root causes of the problem. Because if you can't fix the systemic problems you are facing, you have bigger concerns down the road than your house depreciating a bit.
Why does wealth have to be equally distributed?
 

Joey D

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I repeat my call for an instant $14 trillion in reparations.

So I suspect that you have answers to this then:

Your plan isn't clear though and has holes in it that you could drive a truck through.

First off, where would the money for reparations come from? If it comes from taxes, that's a massive redistribution of wealth that equates to theft. You, or rather the federal government, are taking money from me, who had no involvement in slavery, nor my family, and giving it to someone else. If it's just going to be printed, then holy inflation.

Second, if you're going to give out land, where does that land come from? Federal land isn't exactly where most people want to live. Utah is something like 80% federal land and it's mostly just dry and desolate wasteland.

Third, how would you determine who gets it? If it's based on the color of your skin, that essentially gives some people from the Caribbean, Central, and South America the ability to claim reparations. It would also cancel out anyone from North Africa since North Africans skin color is rarely "black". If it's based on whether you're an African American or not, that also doesn't work. I used to work with a guy who was, quite literally an African American. He was whiter than me and from Zimbabwe. Hell, Elon Musk is an African American.

And you want to see cities have a bad time when it comes to businesses and people with means, then give out reparations. If the money comes from taxes, that will not sit well with a majority of people since it's forced wealth distribution based on, well I'm not sure what you're basing your plan on it, but it'd probably come down to skin color. That's quintessential racism, and government-sponsored racism at that. If the money comes from magic, like the COVID-19 stimulus checks, then businesses will suffer because of rampant inflation. Suddenly you have 37 million people with a significant amount of money, this increases the demand for good and thus increases the price of them. It'd ruin the economy.
 

GranTurNismo

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From what I understand, I don't think Seattle is anywhere close to "dying". The city proper, as well as the metro area, are some of the fastest growing in the United States, and tech jobs are continuing to grow. At worst, the population of the city proper will slow as a result of COVID-19 and more growth will happen in the suburbs, but by no means is Seattle on the downswing. I do know that the Seattle metro area (as well as almost every metro area in the pacific region) has an extreme affordable housing crisis that's only worsened as more and more tech jobs open up, causing a high rate of homelessness. Yet no one seems to know how to solve that.
 
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One of the most consistent themes on Fox is how the "Democratic controlled" cities in the US are ****holes & so expensive that nobody wants to live there. This flies in the face of the most basic law of economics - supply & demand.

Why does wealth have to be equally distributed?

Wealth has never been equally distributed but a cursory glance at world history will demonstrate that extreme levels of wealth inequality frequently lead to cataclysmic social unrest & often a complete breakdown of society.
 

Joey D

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I do know that the Seattle metro area (as well as almost every metro area in the pacific region) has an extreme affordable housing crisis that's only worsened as more and more tech jobs open up, causing a high rate of homelessness. Yet no one seems to know how to solve that.

We have the same problem in Salt Lake. A booming economy, lots of jobs, big families, and a huge influx of people moving here from out of state. It's created a housing shortage and made prices skyrocket. I have a good job, my wife has a good job, but we can't afford a house to save our souls anywhere within an hour of SLC, even in the less desirable parts of the valley.

The only way I can see to address it is simply to build more places to live, especially high-density living areas. The problem is that the old people here don't want that and have actively campaigned and lobbied against the building of high-density residential areas. About two miles from me is a defunct mall that was torn down and there's now a huge piece of land that's owned by a development company that's close to the freeway and in a desirable area. It was put to a vote as to whether the city should allow a high-density complex to be built that included a mix of condos, apartments, restaurants, shopping areas, and green spaces. It passed pretty handly, but the older population of the area threw a massive fit and threw money at legal action until the city overturned it. So now there's this massive piece of property that's just a big ass asphalt slab. Nothing is going to be built on it, at least not for the time being. This is happening all over the valley too. Young, or younger people as in under 65, want places like this and it would go a long way into helping ease the stress of our high cost of living. But you have a few wealthy older people that absolutely do not want it and cite BS reasons like "it'd obscure the view of the mountains".

We do have places outside the valley that plenty of places could be built, but the problem there is that they're either in an area that's polluted beyond belief or will burn down every summer.
 

Danoff

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What, you think there is less crime and more focus on human rights in countries where the inequality is higher?

What? How is this responsive to what I wrote?

Wealth has never been equally distributed but a cursory glance at world history will demonstrate that extreme levels of wealth inequality frequently lead to cataclysmic social unrest & often a complete breakdown of society.

Correlation is not causation.