Do you believe?

[skicrush]

And I can put infinity in my hands how?



You ARE aware of the huge gulf in difference between an advanced being arising FROM the universe and the concept of God, aren't you?

Since it's my anniversary today, and I'm already 10 minutes late leaving, this won't be as complete as I'd like it to be. What difference would it make to you from our present point of view how God became God, or how long ago?? I don't profess to understand that, and I don't think anyone can. The Bible never says, therefore no one knows--all that exists is conjecture. But, you freely admit that in this infinite universe, something with the powers we attribute to God COULD come to be. And if that already happened, then there WOULD be a God.

 

[Famine]

Since it's my anniversary today, and I'm already 10 minutes late leaving, this won't be as complete as I'd like it to be. What difference would it make to you from our present point of view how God became God, or how long ago?? I don't profess to understand that, and I don't think anyone can. The Bible never says, therefore no one knows--all that exists is conjecture. But, you freely admit that in this infinite universe, something with the powers we attribute to God COULD come to be. And if that already happened, then there WOULD be a God.

There would merely be a superior being, not the Judeo-Christian "I am the Alpha and the Omega" God of Abraham.

If "God" is OF the universe, God cannot be God, merely a superior being. Christianity says that God is not OF the universe, so it is not inherently contradictory to state that the existence of superior beings is a certainty yet God is an impossibility.

Exactly!

Exactly what?

Yet you say you comprehend an infinite universe. But how do you know the universe is infinite? An equation? A peer reviewed study? I'm really trying to understand how you say there is infinity when you can't see it WITHOUT anykind of faith.

No, yes and "Look the hell upwards, dude", in that order.

 

[Swift]

No, yes and "Look the hell upwards, dude", in that order.

You don't believe in hell, so why mention it?

 

[Famine]

That would be "Hell". Notice also how I capitalise God too.

 

[Swift]

That would be "Hell". Notice also how I capitalise God too.

You are really a mystery. First, you didn't capitalize Hell in your original post. Second, you respect God enough to capitalize the word but not acknowledge his existence?

 

[Famine]

I didn't capitalise "Hell" in my original post because I wasn't using that meaning. "Hell" only has one meaning. "hell" has several.

And no, I don't respect God and don't acknowledge His (another one!) existence. But I have been brought up to respect other people, no matter how misguided I think they might be, and to speak the language, or try, of someone who is speaking to me. So I type God and His/Him/He, and you'll never catch me saying "Bangkok" in reference to the Thai capital.

 

[Swift]

I didn't capitalise "Hell" in my original post because I wasn't using that meaning. "Hell" only has one meaning. "hell" has several.

And no, I don't respect God and don't acknowledge His (another one!) existence. But I have been brought up to respect other people, no matter how misguided I think they might be, and to speak the language, or try, of someone who is speaking to me. So I type God and His/Him/He, and you'll never catch me saying "Bangkok" in reference to the Thai capital.

I see. Well that's a good thing.

 

[Sage]

Famine: Sorry, I don't mean to muddle in like this (you know as well as anybody my thoughts on "God"), but I thought that an infinite universe with an infinite number of stars was impossible, because then light would come from every single direction (an infinite number of directions), thus there would be so much light that we'd never have "night"...?

 

[Danoff]

Famine: Sorry, I don't mean to muddle in like this (you know as well as anybody my thoughts on "God"), but I thought that an infinite universe with an infinite number of stars was impossible, because then light would come from every single direction (an infinite number of directions), thus there would be so much light that we'd never have "night"...?

That's not totally true. The light from an infinite number of stars has to travel an infinite distance to get to us, so it would never truly arrive. We'd only see the light from the stars that were close enough to us for it to arrive.

However, the universe does not have an infinite mass or infinite energy and so there are not an infinite number of stars (don't ask me how they know this but it's my understanding that they do). That doesnt' mean there isn't an infinite amount of space (which there may not be).

 

[PS]

Doesn't look like it.


Anyway, to summarise all the crap from the other thread:

The universe is infinite and contains all stuff. If God is made of stuff He cannot be infinite. If God is not made of stuff, God is not in the universe and doesn't exist. The end.

What kinda stuff?

 

[Sage]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[smellysocks12]

I believe that I don't know what higher being exists or whether one exists. I don't believe that nothing exists, outruling the possibility of something existing. But as of now I don't have a reason to assume that there is something higher out there.

 

[PS]

I don't believe any higher power exists, but I don't know if a higher power exists. Either way, until he/she/it makes his/hers/its presence known, he/she/it doesn't exist to me.

 

[Joey D]

Science has pretty much proven that God can't exsist in this universe due to the laws of physics. But I think there is something outside of our universe, but I'm still conviced that our universe is part of something bigger. Just think our universe is like an atom in a bigger world.

 

[Delirious]

"God can't exsist in this universe due to the laws of physics"

eh??? if science has TRULY done this, dont you think christianity would died down quite a bit by now?

people believed once that the earth was flat but they proved that wrong...no one believes that now (yes i can understand science proved that the earth was round) but the question i have for you is...

why cant God exist due to the law of physics?

 

[McLaren]

I don't believe in any of this god.
I haven't really seen any proof that God can exist and if he does, then why is he so afraid to show himself?

I feel there is no such thing as god.

 

[Joey D]

"God can't exsist in this universe due to the laws of physics"

eh??? if science has TRULY done this, dont you think christianity would died down quite a bit by now?

people believed once that the earth was flat but they proved that wrong...no one believes that now (yes i can understand science proved that the earth was round) but the question i have for you is...

why cant God exist due to the law of physics?

Something can't be omnipresent because it would have infinite mass and therefore would take up the entire universe, also if god had no mass he wouldn't exsist. But for the love of god (ironic) go study in a advanced phyics course or just talk to Famine since he seems to be just like my phyics book but funnier.

Chirstianity will be just like the old greek religion, we will think of it as mythology and cool stories way back when. Asops fables offer nothing more then the bible does, they are pretty close to the same thing.

Religion had been around since the dawn of man, so that's why it's around today. If there was no religion what would please do with all their free time? Well I guess they could, you know, create new technology or maybe cure cancer or something.

 

[LoudMusic]

You are all instruments of the devil.

Oh, and arguing religious points on a forum built for a video game? About cars? That doesn't even include damage!?!

No. Stop this insanity.

 

[Swift]

You are all instruments of the devil.

Oh, and arguing religious points on a forum built for a video game? About cars? That doesn't even include damage!?!

No. Stop this insanity.

I really hope you're joking. considering the fact you're paying for your membership.

 

[Delirious]

God's presence is everywhere...

how would that eliminate the possibility of God? could it be possible for the presence of God to have a mass of zero?

 

[Joey D]

Nothing can be massless, every thing has mass and if it doesn't it doesn't exsist.

 

[PS]

So, saying that God is infinite and power and knowledge escapes you why?

There cannot be a scientific proof of the Jewish/Christian/Islamic God/Allah - their God is directly described as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. To prove their existence instantly belies all three of those things, thus disproving their existence.

Q.E.D.

That's why.

 

[PS]

Nothing can be massless, every thing has mass and if it doesn't it doesn't exsist.

Except for energy.

[edit]

Oh, crap, most energy is made of electrons isn't it? Electrical energy anyway. And those weigh about 1/2000th of an atom core, so that technically means it has weight. Crap. Guess you're right, although Famine will undeniably have something to add/correct to this post.

 

[Swift]

That's why.

Insightful. If God was about science then I could see it. But well, he's not, Famine is repeating himself and so am I.

Hey, it's cool though. Enjoy your life.

 

[PS]

Enjoy your life.

And what's that supposed to mean? Because people don't just say that out of good will.

 

[Swift]

And what's that supposed to mean? Because people don't just say that out of good will.

And that shows how much you know about christians.

 

[Green Gloves]

I am going to offend some people.

If you believe, there is. Otherwise, there isn't.

Do we have to do this once every month?

 

[Delirious]

green gloves...they are in search for THE absolute Truth

those that believe have found THE absolute Truth that is written in the bible

those that dont believe...dont believe in THE absolute Truth that is written in the bible

and for those that dont believe...if the God in the bible isnt the absolute Truth...what is, and how do you know that is the absolute Truth?

it just does not make sense the universe came to existence without being an absolute Truth behind it all, to think all this universe would be pointless...not to have an intelligent designer behind it

 

[inferno]

There is thus an infinite spectrum of life - from basic to super-advanced

I like how you say there is an infinite spectrum of life and then proceed to describe a finite spectrum of "basic to super advanced" (Waits for Famine to point out every gramatical error in the following post)

Now, My real reply. Yes I belive, but I do not follow any specific religion. none of them are perfect. The bible, as it was way back when the dudes that wrote it were still alive, is best represented by the King james version of the bible. Is it perfect? I dont know, but it's better than some religions where the Bible used is modified in very significant ways. The bible is my religion. What it says, I do. But enough about that, perhaps this should be in the creation vs evolution thread, but the thing that makes me belive, is the fact that we live in a world that is set in stone. It's like a framework of rules and theorums with a billion variables, but put in the same numbers and the outcome will be the same every time. I dont doubt evolution, or the big bang, but what intrests me is the underlying framework that governs the action/reaction world we live in. Could such an advanced (for lack of a better phrase) "Physics Model" exist by acident. Most of the universe is nothing. A vaccum of dead space, uneffected by anything. Certain parts of it however contain matter curiously grouped in a form dictated by the megnetic charge they hold. It's why 2 atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen cling to each other when ever they exist together, but by what coincedence is it that that grouping of elements form a substance known as water? Hah, you mean to tell me that these pieces of matter are charged in such a manner that they group together in this exact way, and just by coincedence when they do that, it makes something? That is how the earth below your feet came to be, the fibres in the shirt you are wearing. Even you, or more specificaly all the different organs and tissues that make up you, are the result of matter grouping together in a certain way because of it's magnetic attraction to certain other pieces of matter. I do belive that it all just "happened". But, much in the same way you put GT4 in your PS2 and it just works, It took alot of development to get it to that point. Ironicaly It's the rediculous level of perfection, of the tinyest pieces of stuf in the galaxy that makes me belive in a higher power. Ok i'm done. Famine, Go ahead. Tear me apart.

 

[Goomba]

I also belive that the belief of god is like a spiral. The more you belive in god the more benefits you will feel you recive from god. The less devoted you are to god the less benefits you will recive from god and your beleif in god will shrink. You must understand its kinda hard for me to explain but this is what i belive.

I see where you are coming from, but I think that has more to deal with ourselves. I've pretty much steered clear of bad emotions for the past couple of years. Yes, I've had my downs, but I've never dwelled on them or let them tear me apart for long. I've been very happy and content with my life as of late, and many things have come to me. The biggest is probably dealing with myself, as far as my personality, beliefs, spirituality, etc. and improving each aspect. Yes, I gained other minor things along the way, but those were mostly material and not of consequence really.

However, I haven't believe in any god for at least three years. I think that saying beneficial things will happen just because you follow a certain religion is poppycock. I think it has more to deal with your emotions and general view of life. "What The Bleep Do We Know" had a very interesting look at this sort of thing.

But thats for a later post. G'Night.