Do You Countersteer?

Discussion in 'GT5 Drifting' started by Jesus, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. StangBanger302

    StangBanger302

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    Yeah...ME! :D
     
  2. TakeshiSkunk

    TakeshiSkunk

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    Anybody ever tell you you're really obnoxious? You're very confident asserting something contrary to all information readily available anywhere.

    You're the only person I've ever seen say that a kansei drift is exclusively a racing technique. Any description you find anywhere online, including those from Tsuchiya himself, are going to describe it as a high speed drift initiated via lift off oversteer. There's no reason it cannot be used to initiate a high speed, high angle drift on a high speed corner (like the final corner of Tsukuba.)

    I welcome a correction from TTCH or Rufus or anyone else who has proven their competence and can correct me in a civil manner if I am indeed mistaken here, but what your saying is quite contrary to what I've known for quite some time.
     
  3. Jesus

    Jesus

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    Go back to FM3 then. Only joking :sly:. Just keep practising, keep things slow as well don't rush into the corner, take things slow at first. Once you get the hang of it you will soon realise you made a big mistake wasting your time on FM3.
    GT for life :tup:
     
  4. RufusGonePunk

    RufusGonePunk

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    Woahh, I'm flattered, but my knowledge pails into insignificance when compared with TTCH's. Haha :)
     
  5. DC2CircuitHero

    DC2CircuitHero

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    NEVER!!!!!!! lmao but yea me and forza go wayyyyyyyy back. I started on FM1 and kept going to FM3 but honestly the kids on that game just make it aggrivating. Always complaing and being wayyyy toooo competitve. Like all the forums are filled with hate in every thread dude its unreal. But yea man back on forza i was a beast, i still am but i just like GT5 sooo much better. I basically got a PS3 for GT. but w/e maybe some of u guys can add me so we can clutch drrrft. lol u guys seem mad chill so yeaa add me. once i get better at this game ill sign up for a team and get sexxay tandemssss lol
     
  6. Jesus

    Jesus

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    Yeah you'll find GTP forums are very friendly and most arguments are resolved HINT HINT to you other guys. Practice like crazy mate thats all I can say. :tup:
     
  7. TakeshiSkunk

    TakeshiSkunk

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    Hey now, doesn't mean you can't teach me anything!

    You have this habit of not talking out your hind end that I appreciate :p
     
  8. RufusGonePunk

    RufusGonePunk

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    Ahaaa, I think most people appreciate that! But seriously, TTCH and other decent drifters are the guys to go to for actual first hand knowledge. Most of mine comes from forums, going to events and the occassional late night passenger ride.
     
  9. nk4e

    nk4e

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    From our own D_D break ohio.

    For a short experience, it seems that everyone on FM3 online uses S classes and has done this long than I have. Please follow the AUP and use proper language. Yes, I did miss some. Especially, the misspelled word.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  10. DC2CircuitHero

    DC2CircuitHero

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    Yea man cool. im at work right now but add me bro.
     
  11. Warren4649

    Warren4649

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    Now don't make me say what I haven't said.

    Yes, kansei drift initiations can be used to perform hi angle drifts at "high speeds".
    Tho when I was refering to "high speed" drift, I meant a drift with a really low angle (hence the 0 counter steer) during a race, which will always be faster than an high speed drift performed in a drift competition (for eg).

    By the way no one initiate with a lift off technique during a drift comp simply because nowadays every one is initiating far away from the corner.
     
  12. DaveM-sport

    DaveM-sport

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    Thats a sweet looking R32 :)
    The comment about it being an R32 GTS-t is gas!!!



    As mentioned there are alot of times where you go for periods within the corner where you don't counter-steer as much or if at all sometimes but this is just a correction in getting alittle too deep into the corner and trying to pull yourself back in abit or you have just got your entry alittle wrong.

    The best drifts are where you get the entry perfect so that you are up against the lock-stops with the car with enough angle as possible and the right entry speed to be off the power as much as needed in entry and then progressively on the power until exit.
     
  13. Warren4649

    Warren4649

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    NK4E, you can't be serious with that video from BreakerOhio.
    I mean, first off, the only thing I see on that video is understeer (well, mostly), blame GT4 physics for that.
    And all the corners on that track are not what I call fast corners. A video from reality would have been more legitimate.
    Like that.



    The reason why lift off (or kansei or accel off) is mainly used in racing is because you don't need to apply any brakes to initiate it which avoid an important loss of speed.
    Still you can use that technique if you want to practice the discipline of drifting, the difference will just be how hard you throw the car in the turn, how much throttle you apply and the line you take.
     
  14. TakeshiSkunk

    TakeshiSkunk

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    "technique which generally used in racing (not by all the drivers tho)"

    The way this was phrased, I took the word "generally" as in 'racing drivers that do vs. racing drivers that don't' rather than 'racing drivers vs drifting drivers', if that makes sense.

    Earlier you specifically said, quite emphatically, that a Kansei drift is only a high speed, low angle racing drift. You just conceded that a Kansei technique can be used to initiate a high speed, high angle 'show' drift. Is this not contradictory? Maybe I wasn't quite as stupid as you seemed to think I was when I put forth that Kansei refers to a specific type of initiation rather than a very specific entire drift, beginning to end, as you insisted?

    I'm more than willing to be corrected but there's a civil way to do so that leads to productive conversation, and an immature way that makes you look like a jerk.
     
  15. FULL_THROTTLE

    FULL_THROTTLE

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    Drifting without counter steer?, do you mean no counter steer at all or just correction steering?
     
  16. pergatory

    pergatory

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    As far as I know, the 'kansei' technique has to do with how the drift is initiated, as both sides have pointed out. I believe it's what is referred to as "accel off" in the Drift Bible. It is merely a way to initiate the drift. It has nothing to do with the follow-through or whether the driver counter-steers or whether they're driving for speed or show.

    The only reason it's referred to as a high-speed technique is because it requires being hard on the throttle right before the corner, and entering the corner without using brakes. Quite often its use is determined not by whether the driver is trying to drive for speed or show, but the layout of the track and whether there's a huge straight before the corner or not.

    The kind of technique Warren is referring to, I've only ever heard referred to as a "no-counter drift." I'm not aware of a proper name for it. Pro racers might not even call it a drift, just utilization of slip angles. It's very difficult and you see it in pro racing. It is literally the absolute fastest way through a corner. Faster than grip, faster than a full-on drift. Watch Schumacher drive his F1 and you'll see him doing it fairly regularly, especially in qualifying. The man is a god.
     
  17. Warren4649

    Warren4649

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    Was I insulting when I talked to you?
    If you felt like it then I'm sorry, it wasn't the purpose.

    I don't understand the red part. Maybe generally have a slightly different meaning/usage than in french. I used it as "in a lot of cases but not all" (if that make sense too).

    By the way it is as contradictory as saying that an ebrake initiation is only a drifting technique when you could use it during racing (at the expense of losing time and, probably, places).

    As I said in my previous post, you won't do a Kansei drift during a drift comp, if you want to be competitive, as its a technique that you can only use once entering a corner (not 100m before). Otherwise, I quickly checked the drift bible and KT when refering to the lift off, says that he uses (used) that technique on Fuji 100R corner or the final corner of Sportsland Sugo.

    Pretty much what I'm trying to describes when I'm speaking about what is a hi speed "drift" under racing conditions.
     
  18. nk4e

    nk4e

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    Perg, I think we gave that technique the name No counter-steering . It was very popular in GT3 and I didn't see it much in GT4.
    @Warren, This is from his description :"Arcade Mode car with stock HP and soft tires." The term that DK was using was "Dynamic " Drifting. Not really Kansei...
     
  19. RufusGonePunk

    RufusGonePunk

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    It hadn't occured to me before, but your post made me remember watching this video:



    They call it power-oversteer and watching the video, it does seem to be closer to powering over than kansei drift.
     
  20. pergatory

    pergatory

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    That video has a mix of initiation techniques. Most are indeed power over, but there are a few kansei drifts. The very first one looked like it might've been a kansei.

    And yeah nk4e, that may have been what I was thinking of.
     
  21. TakeshiSkunk

    TakeshiSkunk

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    Yeah you came off pretty abrasively initially, but no worries we're cool :)
     
  22. teh luckinator

    teh luckinator

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  23. nk4e

    nk4e

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    Takumi didn't learn a technique against the EVO III, he just pushed his lucked a bit more....
     
  24. teh luckinator

    teh luckinator

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    Uhhhh.

    What.
     
  25. ParksidE001

    ParksidE001

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    "Pro racers might not even call it a drift, just utilization of slip angles. It's very difficult and you see it in pro racing. It is literally the absolute fastest way through a corner. Faster than grip, faster than a full-on drift."

    I'm no pro but this is actually how I race when up against a far more powerful car. I was doing this against a tuned 458 italia, last night, in my tuned elise. The guy was so fast on the straights, it was my only way to stay ahead. He's a good driver too, only missing 2 golds in all of his licenses.

    I can do this all day long without much issue.

    I'm only just learning to drift and this is my way of getting used to feeling a car slip, at all limits.I wouldn't call it drifting. More sliding extremely gracefully :)

    When I can get the back out so that I'm facing the Apex, maintaining a slide with enough 'counter' AND holding it in the power line, pouring smoke... I'll regard myself able to drift. All I can do now is race fast, albeit like I'm on Ice.
     
  26. kidovey

    kidovey

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    so this must have been you that i saw at silverstone a few years ago then?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    oh and back on topic - yer of course you wanna countersteer - as everyone said just watch the drift bible before doing anything lol!
     
  27. Warren4649

    Warren4649

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    The term dynamic drifting is used by the english voice over.
    I'd like to find the original version (I had it years ago) to listen what KT is actually really saying.
     
  28. nk4e

    nk4e

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    I have the DVD, I will check later
     
  29. vr6wantsr20det

    vr6wantsr20det

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    i think people on the DS3 are more likely to drift without counter-steer, or not through the whole turn as i think it's more difficult to fine tune steering/throttle inputs with the controller. People with the wheel are most likely Always counter-steering like i do. I like to try and get as much angle as i can while still staying on line. :):tup:

    It's faster and i think a little easier to drift without counter-steering because you aren't getting wide angles and the weight transfers are not as severe.
     
  30. TwinturboCH

    TwinturboCH

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    You won't be corrected by me, Warren is wrong. LOL

    Kansei drift is not a 'racing technique', because with modern cars, it makes you pretty slow, so is basically pointless.

    Where the confusion lies is that a lot of people, including Tsuchiya, have described it as a 'race drift'. What they actually mean is, it's a technique that would be used in a battle type scenario to maintain car speed. It's more relevant to low power cars to be honest, as with today's big power competition monsters, kansei has been virtually forgotten about as people can just use a deft dab of throttle to get the car sliding, even at 100+mph, failing that, clutch kick for the win. LOL