Do you think a locked 60 is "Chest Beating" that is preventing great experiences for Forza?

[FordGTGuy]

I'm no longer arguing with you, you're literally now throwing logic out of the window and going with your own opinion rather than the "manufacturer".

 

[Pillo-san]

I'm no longer arguing with you, you're literally now throwing logic out of the window and going with your own opinion rather than the "manufacturer".

Are we even arguing?

My opinion is based on over 25 years of pc nerdiness.
How many times have we not been deceived by PR mumbo jumbo lies and empty promises in the tech/gaming world.
Xbox one X is a nice machine but it is held back by a crappy cpu.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Slightly Mad Studios are releasing Project CARS 2 on PC, PS4 and Xbox One on September 22, around the same time as another racing heavyweight, Forza Motorsport 7, hits the market. During our E3 interview we asked whether the studio felt the pressure of prominent rivals like GT Sport and Forza, but creative director Andy Tudor was confident in his reply.


"No, not really. Which sounds kind of bold and a bit arrogant, but no, because finally [...] we've been making racing games for a very long time, and we've always been nipping at the heels of like the big brands that are out there. But this time around it's a bit of a different situation, they're actually playing catch up with us in many respects.

Tudor continued: "You might have seen another racing game out there [Forza 7] has just announced dynamic weather, well, if you remember back Project Cars 1 had that back in 2015. The ability to now play in 4K, well again, if you remember back and rewind to previous interviews with me, you could play Project Cars 1 in 12K. And it's the same thing here. Please go and play [...] our CXC motion rig in VR, come back and tell me that we're not the most technically advanced racing game."

https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/558343/Project CARS 2 dev on Forza GT theyre playing catch up/

The absolute arrogance is amazing.

Turn 10 didn't do dynamic weather until they could do it while maintaining a locked 60 and native resolution, also dynamic weather isn't some brand new concept; GT did it before PCars and many did it before GT.

Honestly 12K? Forza 6 was only on Xbox One(He fails to mention that PCars ran at 900p on Xbox One), Forza 7 is hitting 4K native on Xbox One X; something SMS admitted to not being able to do with Project Cars 2 while maintaining a locked 60.

Don't talk about having the "most technically advanced racing game" when it still runs like trash after all your updates and you're still not prioritizing 60 fps on your new game.

BTW the setup needed to run PCars at 12K requires three GTX 1080 Tis.(that's $2100 in graphics cards without including anything else or taxes.)

https://mygaming.co.za/news/features/75298-the-price-of-running-project-cars-at-12k-is-absurd-2.html

 

[Northstar]

Granted I think the heads of all 3 studios can be a bit arrogant at times, but I think that was a bit of a trap question and Andy fell for it.

Either he comes across as arrogant or he comes across as not having confidence in his own product.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Granted I think the heads of all 3 studios can be a bit arrogant at times, but I think that was a bit of a trap question and Andy fell for it.

Either he comes across as arrogant or he comes across as not having confidence in his own product.

It wasn't that much of a trick question, a simple response of "We are the underdog and up against two large rivals but we are able to hold our own with what we offer while also pushing the boundary in features that our rivals haven't quite adopted yet."

 

[Northstar]

It wasn't that much of a trick question, a simple response of "We are the underdog and up against two large rivals but we are able to hold our own with what we offer while also pushing the boundary in features that our rivals haven't quite adopted yet."

I would say that response would fall into the second category.

"he comes across as not having confidence in his own product."

The main reason studio heads do interviews like that is to talk their game up. T10 does it as does PD, why should SMS be any different? Sure it comes off as arrogant, but when you really look at marketing, it's pretty much the art of arrogance.

 

[ThunderLips]

Read an article somewhere about Andy's comments. While poking fun at him it also went on to defend his posistion. Stating - With T10 and PD mass marketing and a larger dedicated install base created over the years SMS needs to be bold with their comments to stand out against the competition.

Makes sense to me. But what I don't understand is why people get so upset over what each game can and can not do. Especially when it comes to PCars, a game that is available on all platforms. Im sure if SMS could pull off 60 they would. But its pretty clear their game is far more demanding with whats on offer and they dont have the same resources as the other two.

In the end it will always come down the individuals opinion. Personally I find the stiff driver animations in Forza just as distracting as a drop in frames. But thats just me.

 

[FordGTGuy]

In the end it will always come down the individuals opinion. Personally I find the stiff driver animations in Forza just as distracting as a drop in frames. But thats just me.

Just lol.

There is now a view without driver animations now.

If driver animations are as bad as 30 fps frame drops, I just don't know what to say.

 

[VXR]

For all their pretty PC efforts, SMS can't do console ports very well. The Xbox One version was a dog at launch.

 

[Fat Tyre]

For all their pretty PC efforts, SMS can't do console ports very well. The Xbox One version was a dog at launch.

And remained as such even after all those updates. I only finally got to understand why people loved it so much when I bought the PC version, sadly for me I got PCars for Xbox as digital download so there was no way to get my money back. One of the worst titles in XBO.

 

[UKMikey]

And remained as such even after all those updates. I only finally got to understand why people loved it so much when I bought the PC version, sadly for me I got PCars for Xbox as digital download so there was no way to get my money back. One of the worst titles in XBO.

This mirrors my experience. They may or may not have fixed the Xbox version eventually but I was beginning to suffer from update fatigue before I jumped ship to PC.

Hopefully Xbox PCars 1 was the Apex-like "beta" for PCars 2 and all three versions work fine straight outta the box without the need for anyone to talk it up by putting down anyone else's games. Community goodwill can only go so far after all.

 

[FordGTGuy]

And remained as such even after all those updates. I only finally got to understand why people loved it so much when I bought the PC version, sadly for me I got PCars for Xbox as digital download so there was no way to get my money back. One of the worst titles in XBO.

Yeah, but didn't you hear that you can run PCars at 12k with $2100+ worth of GPUs(taxes not included)?

Honestly, it's not 12k anyway; it's three 4K monitors which isn't even as much pixel count as 8K.

PCars "12K" triple screen = 24,883,200 pixels (11520 x 2160)

8K = 33,177,600 pixels (7680 x 4320)

12K = 74,649,600 pixels (11520 x 6480)

 

[ThunderLips]

FordGtGuy you completely missed my point.

All hail Forza!... is that better?

 

[FordGTGuy]

You completely missed my point.

All hail Forza!... is that better?

Actually, I completely understand that you're saying it is subjective.

I just find the comparison funny and the idea that someone would find stiff driver animations as distracting as large framerate drops.

It has nothing do with "all hail Forza!" I mean honestly... c'mon now.(It's not like I tried to claim Forza doesn't have stiff driver animations.)

The main reason studio heads do interviews like that is to talk their game up. T10 does it as does PD, why should SMS be any different? Sure it comes off as arrogant, but when you really look at marketing, it's pretty much the art of arrogance.

I honestly can't think of a single interview(in all the history of Forza) that Dan Greenawalt, Alan Hartman or Brian Ekberg have ever talked down about a competitor or any other game at all; if anything they've complemented games such as Gran Turismo and acknowledged that games such as Gran Turismo were the inspiration for Forza.

I don't have a single problem with SMS talking up PCars, they should; everyone does it for their game.(Do you see me making a thread or commenting every time SMS talks about PCars? of course not.) The absurd comments aren't needed though and it's pushing people away and making them look bad. (Forza is doing 4K on the new Xbox One X? Well we did "12K" two years ago on PC!)

This is about the furthest Turn 10 ever goes:

"Gran Turismo is a great game. It’s been a huge franchise, a huge part of many gamers kind of history of their gaming and I got a lot of respect for Kazunori Yamauchi and his whole team at Polyphony Digital”, begins Greenawalt, before dismissing comparisons with GT5: Prologue for the fact that it's not a full game. He then compares the work ethic of Turn 10 and Polyphony, stating that their 'modern' approach is something the GT creators just don't have.

“What I do know is that I think our visions, the vision of Kazunori and the vision that I have... are very similar. The execution is very different, we’ve got this commitment to this modern game design having the most cutting-edge physics, embracing UGC, embracing community, that I don’t think it is part of his vision, and it’s not meaning he’s lacking or not, it just means there’s a difference."

 

[ThunderLips]

I just find the comparison funny and the idea that someone would find stiff driver animations as distracting as large framerate drops.

I never said LARGE frame drops.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I never said LARGE frame drops.

That's fine but that's what we are talking about here, it would be one thing if it were 60 to 55 but we are talking 60 to 30(More around 30-45+ during weather) and jumping up and down between.

Of course we are talking about the original game running on Xbox One but I'm not making any claims about PCars 2.

 

[ThunderLips]

Well then, my apologies. I did not go through every post and must have missed that part of the conversation.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Well then, my apologies. I did not go through every post and must have missed that part of the conversation.

That being said I prefer Pcars with it's Large frame drops and all.

Which is perfectly fine, this isn't about attacking anyone for preferring PCars over Forza or something crazy.

It's literally just about their comments towards other games.

 

[Northstar]

I honestly can't think of a single interview(in all the history of Forza) that Dan Greenawalt, Alan Hartman or Brian Ekberg have ever talked down about a competitor or any other game at all; if anything they've complemented games such as Gran Turismo and acknowledged that games such as Gran Turismo were the inspiration for Forza.

I don't have a single problem with SMS talking up PCars, they should; everyone does it for their game.(Do you see me making a thread or commenting every time SMS talks about PCars? of course not.) The absurd comments aren't needed though and it's pushing people away and making them look bad. (Forza is doing 4K on the new Xbox One X? Well we did "12K" two years ago on PC!)

This is about the furthest Turn 10 ever goes:

Their entire E3 conference this year was rather arrogant.

Both T10 and PD are arrogant, they've just been dealing with major gaming media longer so they are better at dealing with them and make fewer controversial comments.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Their entire E3 conference this year was rather arrogant.

Clarification please.

Also, remember that we are talking about Turn 10 specifically and not the entirety of Microsoft.

Both T10 and PD are arrogant, they've just been dealing with major gaming media longer so they are better at dealing with them and make fewer controversial comments.

It doesn't take experience with gaming media to know how to not make controversial comments like these.

 

[ThunderLips]

Its been said a hundred times already. At the end of the day its never been this good for console sim fans.

My first racing game was bump and jump on Intelevision.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Its been said a hundred times already. At the end of the day its never been this good for console sim fans.

My first racing game was bump and jump on Intelevision.

It's a great time to be a racing game fan but I do wish that we were getting a more traditional Gran Turismo game.

Dirt, F1, Forza, AC, PCars, The Crew, NFS, Gran Turismo, Mario Kart, NASCAR and GTR 3.

 

[Northstar]

Clarification please.

Hey everyone, Porsche came to us to unveil their car!!!!

It doesn't take experience with gaming media to know how to not make controversial comments like these

No, but experience does help you notice that when a journalist asks you a question like this...

"we asked whether the studio felt the pressure of prominent rivals like GT Sport and Forza,"

... that they are trying to set you up to give them a certain answer that will serve their purpose.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Hey everyone, Porsche came to us to unveil their car!!!!

How is that exaggerated? It was the first car to ever be unveiled at a gaming show and it's the first time that the car had been seen in public.

I would call it out of place, something they freely admit, but not arrogant.

It should be noted that more McLaren P1s were sold at E3 2013 than any other event the car ever appeared at.

No, but experience does help you notice that when a journalist asks you a question like this...

"we asked whether the studio felt the pressure of prominent rivals like GT Sport and Forza,"

... that they are trying to set you up to give them a certain answer that will serve their purpose.

A simple response of "We are the underdog and up against two large rivals but we are able to hold our own with what we offer while also pushing the boundary in features that our rivals haven't quite adopted yet."

I don't even get how that's either a leading or trick question; it's a pretty fair question given PCars 2s position of competing with both Forza and GT this holiday.

 

[Northstar]

It was the first car to ever be unveiled at a gaming show and it's the first time that the car had been seen in public.

They made a huge deal out of both of those facts, in other words... arrogant!

A simple response of "We are the underdog and up against two large rivals but we are able to hold our own with what we offer while also pushing the boundary in features that our rivals haven't quite adopted yet."

I've already answered this.

Anyways, I'm done. You obviously have a thing for T10 and that's fine, but at least be honest about it. Frankly, the attitude you've been displaying is no better than the PCars fans that you constantly drone about.

 

[FordGTGuy]

They made a huge deal out of both of those facts, in other words... arrogant!

That isn't really arrogant considering it was a pretty big deal and that more McLaren P1s were sold at E3 2013 than any other event the car appeared at(including car shows).

I've already answered this.

Anyways, I'm done. You obviously have a thing for T10 and that's fine, but at least be honest about it. Frankly, the attitude you've been displaying is no better than the PCars fans that you constantly drone about.

Nah, I'm sorry but that's bull.

Asseto Corsa, F1, Dirt, Gran Turismo and others don't talk crap about other games.

You keep talking about it like this is something normal in this genre, it's not.(it's not even something normal in the gaming industry between developers.)

My attitude is that I don't agree with your opinion.

 

[UKMikey]

They made a huge deal out of both of those facts, in other words... arrogant!

It's not really putting down the competition in the same way as the original quote in this thread was. I don't really see any hypocrisy in @FordGTGuy's attitude.

 

[Northstar]

OK, one last time.

That isn't really arrogant considering it was a pretty big deal and that more McLaren P1s were sold at E3 2013 than any other event the car appeared at(including car shows).

They really didn't need to drone on and on about how this is the first time it's happened. It came across as very arrogant.

Something like "To celebrate out new game Porsche has allowed us to unveil their new 911!" would have been much better.

Asseto Corsa, F1, Dirt, Gran Turismo and others don't talk crap about other games.

You keep talking about it like this is something normal in this genre, it's not.(it's not even something normal in the gaming industry between developers.)

AC doesn't get much coverage since it's not aiming for mass-market sales, ergo fewer interviews and fewer chances to make an ass of themselves. The others are made by studios that have considerably more experience in dealing with the media.

It's not really putting down the competition in the same way as the original quote in this post was. I don't really see any hypocrisy in @FordGTGuy's attitude.

So you really don't see anything overly confrontational in his posts?

I'll give him the fact he doesn't go to other forums and talk crap, but his attitude in this forum is no different.

 

[FordGTGuy]

They really didn't need to drone on and on about how this is the first time it's happened. It came across as very arrogant.

Something like "To celebrate out new game Porsche has allowed us to unveil their new 911!" would have been much better.

They have a partnership with Porsche, a partnership that allowed them to announce Porsche's new car live on stage; something never done before with any car at a gaming event.

That's a big deal, that's not exaggeration and it's not arrogant.

Arrogant would be "We were the only racing game studio important enough for this honor.".

AC doesn't get much coverage since it's not aiming for mass-market sales, ergo fewer interviews and fewer chances to make an ass of themselves. The others are made by studios that have considerably more experience in dealing with the media.

It's not normal in gaming at all.

So you really don't see anything overly confrontational in his posts?

I'll give him the fact he doesn't go to other forums and talk crap, but his attitude in this forum is no different.

I learned long ago that arguments aren't about changing a person's opinion, one can hardly ever do such a thing, it's about debating in a forum where others can read the conversation and come to an opinion and/or learn something from the conversation.(Maybe even change their own opinions in a rare circumstance.)

I'm not attacking you, I'm disagreeing with you.

I mean, you can call me a Forza fanboy if you want(I've never denied that I am) but I'm also as capable, or even more so, of criticizing Turn 10 and the Forza franchise than any person you could find.

Honestly Northstar, the only thing I'm disagreeing with you on is this idea that it's normal behavior in either this genre or in the gaming industry between developers.(I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare.).

 

[UKMikey]

So you really don't see anything overly confrontational in his posts?

I'll give him the fact he doesn't go to other forums and talk crap, but his attitude in this forum is no different.

No, I don't see him talking crap to the extent of denigrating other non-Forza games. By pointing out SMS's behaviour I feel he's doing the opposite.