Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

What do you think of GT now?

  • Still the best there is!!!

    Votes: 309 61.6%

  • Screw GT! I'll play Forza now!

    Votes: 36 7.2%

  • It's going to be a nice battle.

    Votes: 136 27.1%

  • I'm still playing Pole Position

    Votes: 21 4.2%
  • Total voters
    502
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Gran Turismo is still the best series, but since GT5 will most likely have damage and other damage related stuff, any of the GTR games can only rival GT5.
 
Cobra_UK
Well if Sony/PD/KY want to succeed they need to realise that online is extremely important. If a solid online, free, feature is established for PS3/GT5, Sony could compete with MS/XBOX360. There are still boring single players out there but the buzz word of the last 5 years is online multiplayer. There is no better opponent/team member than another human.

I do believe that at the moment in stages of development and established customer base the XBOX360 is on top but Sony's PS3 is just revving up. FM2 is closer to release than GT5 and also has guaranteed online, damage, 60FPS and next-gen graphics (physics/AI and sound I'm also very confident will excel). But if support for the DF and DFP with FF gets sorted and KY's promises are to be believed (tough call there, my PD/KY bulls***-o-meter is at it peak and has been for some time), GT5 could come back with a vengeance in a few years.

If I was honest, I would have to say I believe FM2 will take GT's crown. But what I want is KY's vision and promises to come good and a GT5 so good it'll redefine the driving games genre.👍
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I want that too....sooo bad. Kaz is to racing games as Hideo is to stealth espionage games. There may be none better. I Don't think the 2 games truly compete for anyone other than guys that have both systems. And any good racing fan can't get enough so they will at least try FM2 and GT5, and I'm gonns try GTR for sure, looked wonderful on G4 a couple weeks back, but only race cars, still looks great.
 
GT4 has too many cars for the physics to get too detailed . the PS2 has too low a processing power for the physics to get too detailed .

so they are performing "relative" to one another . the slow speed physics are enought to show that

Forza had better graphics in the previous generation , & in the next there is nothing to really seperate the PS3 from the X360

Polyphony know how to put together a good car game . they are highly experienced with Sonys way of operating . GT4 got what was probably the max that the PS2 could give

they are not going to release GT5 as a dud game - its going to be polished
 
although its a different class of game , GTR-2 is coming to the X360 (next month?)

. . . . . & . . . . . its STILL the level to judge other "sims" by
 
TVR&Ferrari_Fan
Gran Turismo is still the best series, but since GT5 will most likely have damage and other damage related stuff, any of the GTR games can only rival GT5.
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GTR has been in a different level since GT4. The physics are better in everyway, as is the racing, set-ups, and everything else.

Don't compare basic sims to a true sims.


Anyways, I think GT5 and Forza 2 are pretty even now that Forza fans are pissed off that they just lost a good amount of tracks and P2P courses.
 
I love Forza. But after lapping Tsukuba around 200 times over the past week, I've noticed that the realism is bullcrap. I can't stand modding the cars and I can't stand watching crap cars smoking much better cars. Along with my Tsukuba lap times not lining up with real life at all. Forza is such a candy coated sim racer it boggles my mind that car "enthusiast" can call it their car game of choice. As for the Forza having a leg up on the online mode, I wouldn't agree. Forza didn't try hard at the physics. What they dids do is learn from what people wanted from the GT series and tossed it into Forza. PD can accomplish this same thing coming in late to the game.

Chow!
 
Cobra_UK
There is no better opponent/team member than another human.
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When you can find a human who drives the way a human should, anyway. :p

I've just returned to Gran turismo 4 after almost eleven months in Forzaland, and I have to say I'm elated. I still love Forza, but the glaring arcadiness became apparent to me within minutes of grabbing the DF Pro.
  • The cars won't lean around turns, even stock street cars.
  • Street cars can take turns much too fast.
  • All cars are glued to the ground. Just go off track and watch them jiggle while clinging tightly to the ground.
  • The difference between modded street cars and race cars is negligible.
  • Modded Hondas are much too powerful.
  • If you slide along walls, they freaking grab your car.
  • A jerk on the wheel will stop a slide.
  • Damage is almost entirely cosmetic, and the damage suffered from the collider and collidee isn't right.
  • The bots must die, DIE I say. And they can perform impossible maneuvers.
  • Even the 3D perspective is messed up. Turns linger in the distance then suddenly rush up at you.
And there's more but you get the point. There's a definite Need For Speed feel to the game from the guys recruited from Electronic Arts, which might explain why NFS sucks so bad since Underwhelm. It isn't bad, it's just not all that realistic. Forza does get plenty of things right, and the paint and mod shop kept me coming back for months. But I finally got painted out.

Gran Turismo feels so much more like a polished masterpiece in comparison though that I may never play Forza 1 again. I'm connected to the car in GT4 in ways no other game has been able to equal, and that's the biggest most fatal flaw with them all. And with Forza 2 being nerfed so much, my enthusia for it isn't too high. Added to the mix are all the headaches trying to get GTR and LFS to run properly on my PC that I will NEVER buy another PC racer at this rate. The PS3 has so much horsepower available that I sincerely doubt I'll ever feel serious racing games on it to have any shortcomings. I fully expect Gran Turismo 5 to cause shockwaves to ripple throughout the entire industry, in much the same way Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII will. People may disappear for days.
 
-> As I browsed around, I've found this PDF file at the GTHD forum here in GTP. I think this could be a glimmer of hope for Sony and PD regarding FFB:

http://www.splitfish.com/sensorfx_pr_jan30_07.pdf

^ I've never heard of them before, and also I've heard some tidbits somewhere that I forgot which site that Sony and Immersion are patching things up regarding the FFB:

http://www.thornbob.com

-> But if this is a good sign, then I'm not losing too much hope now regarding FFB in GT5.

(:
 
How about this example? 💡

Kaz: So, we're just about 89% done with GT4. All we have to perfect now is Physics, AI, Skidmarks, and Sound.

Sony: Hey, PD, release it NOW! The public can't take all these delays anymore.

Kaz: OK, team, here's the plan: We make incredibly basic AI, leave out the skidmarks, stop working on the physics, and put the most basic sound we can on. That means we have a completed game for the little time they allowed us. We can continue to work on skidmarks and AI and Sound, etc. when we work on GT5.

So I think they're going to keep GT4 on their game-developer's computers, and do skidmarks, better AI, better sound, PS3 graphics, etc. and release it as GT5.

So, I conclude that GT4 was unfinished work. And they're going to finish it and sell it as GT5. It's going to utterly dominate. Fact.
 
I've always figured PD's feelings were hurt after everyone complained about GT3's "small" car selection, and so they utilized the majority of their manpower on creating a huge list for GT4, setting everything else aside. After that, they concentrated on the new bits like B-Spec and Photomode.

Then, as you said, they were probably pressured to finish, so they wrapped up the physics, which they had only begun to tamper with, and left the sound/AI unchanged.

I don't know if GT5 will dominate, but I hope it doesn't disappoint.
 
If Sony can come to an agreement which will allow ffb to work on the G25 steering wheel I will buy GT5 and I will buy a PS3 because there is no other game to compete with it including forza. So the hinging factor for me is the ffb.
 
After Forza 2 dropped some goodies, like going back to eight car races, I'm beginning to think that Forza 2 may be as big as Forza 1. It may have better grqaphics and physics, but it may be just as warty as Forza 1.
 
The only place I can see GT losing is its fan base and information on upcoming releases. I love teh fact that Turn10 actually has its own forum that the devs participate in, giving new pics and info, and answreing questions directly from its fans. They give a ton of insight into how the sound is recorded, basically how the game is being made and how its going. I have always felt that PD is more a Japanese company so they seem not to care as much about what other fans want in other countries, hence the Japanese biased car list, and sometimes odd selection of cars from other regions. I would love for them to have thier own forum it would be great to let them know what many fans want in GT5, and what needs changed, along with giving the forum members nice tidbits of info and new screens and isight into how the game is being developed. I love GT4 more than Forza1 but right now with niether of the sucessors bieng out I love FM2 because of thier great fan appreciation.
 
It would be nice if PD had a board we could frolic in and discuss things in, but that's sort of what this is. ;)

It would be cool to talk with the devs there. I'd love to pick Kazunori-sama's brain and read him reminiscing about Gran Turismo history. But keep in mind that for the most part, Turn 10 devs don't participate in the Forza boards, and as for fan appreciation, there's something of a civil war going on over there. If you don't luuv Forza with all your heart, you're in danger of being called a troll by Che himself.
 
Is this war about sales? Forza2 will have a nice lead seeing gT5 wont be out till spring 08. But that game and its features have yet to be seen. But anything else doesnt matter too much since they are not on the same system. But if GT5 has all the bells and whistles and better than GTHDC physics and full G25 support with gate shifting and clutch or some new DFP2 based on the G25 then that aspect adds a dimension FM2 cant touch.
 
LaBounti
Is this war about sales? Forza2 will have a nice lead seeing gT5 wont be out till spring 08. But that game and its features have yet to be seen. But anything else doesnt matter too much since they are not on the same system. But if GT5 has all the bells and whistles and better than GTHDC physics and full G25 support with gate shifting and clutch or some new DFP2 based on the G25 then that aspect adds a dimension FM2 cant touch.
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If you were talking about sales i dont think many people care about the above mentioned things all they want is kick ass graphics,lots of fast cars and a fun online+ damage
 
i cant see Forza being as big as GT5 IMO it just doesn't feel like an epic game although I agree its a good one
 
i find that forza has better things and worse things. ex. in forza, if you do a burnout for a little bit, if you look the brake discs will start to get red and orange from being so hot. in gt4, you can't even do burnouts. in gt4, quality of handling and car engineering is amazing. so i think that it is a fair battle, but gt4 is winning as of the moment
 
I'm ashamed of it but yeah I switched sides :guilty: I mean I love the detail and polish PD puts into GT but after a while it just got mundane...pretty to look at but boring to play. Forza is kinda ugly and yes sometimes does seem a bit arcadey but far more entertaining. The new graphics are a great improvement over 1, don't compare to GT but good enough. And I don't know if you guys have been following Forza 2 but the stuff they got coming is really cool. They have pretty muched merged the website to the game...so you can access alot from the game through the website. Damage has been greatly improved, now when you crash bad car is totaled and its gameover. Livery editor has been improved, customization is a game on it's own and fun to do. Physics improved as well, tracks weight and inertia for clutch, tranny, crank, driveline, flywheel as well as wheel widths, rim model and rim size..which I hope means they also let us choose the wheel widths and size. It's got a lot going for it..and the fact that you can play online...I was sold!

Check it out ppl.. it ain't that bad. Hopefully PD will take notice and implement the same..that's what I would love, the stuff Forza has but w/ the polish and detail PD puts into GT.
 
Eh, I didn't switch myself. I do think Forza 2 will be a rocking game, but they skimped on so many things with it. The most obvious is the Forza 1 limit of eight cars.

After playing Forza 1 for about 10 months straight, I went back to GT4 and am loving every thousandths of a second of it. The simcade physics of Forza are fine, but there are so many things they frooked up. Even the 3D perspective of the track is loused up. I really love how in GT4 I can see the track perfectly and approach turns with ease. In Forza, it's a fishing mess trying to approach a turn at high speeds. I've pretty much got it down - after months of practice, mind you, but still I don't feel comfortable with it, and I'm not involved with the car like I am in GT4. Plus the Forza bots are utter tards and should die.

I do miss the paint and mod shop of Forza, but GT4 has so much more in the experience, I'm not missing it much. As far as Forza 2 goes, I do intend to get it, but there are a couple of big ifs I have to deal with.

Can I justify spending $700 just to play one game?

What's the deal with Zephyr (expanded 360 with HDMI and larger HD, probly 65mn core), and when is it coming out? And how much?

In the meantime, I intend to get a PS3 ASAP and enjoy the heck out of Motorstorm, Formula 1, Virtua Fighter and Sonic.
 
I think if I played Forza for 11 months I prob would jump back to GT for a little bit. I got the 360 a couple months ago and the whole online thing just kinda made me broaden my horizon. Rainbow 6 has been really entertaining..for driving TDU is cool but mostly for cruising and bull****ing. PGR3 is another pretty racer, the in car view blows me away everytime I play it..too bad Forza can't have that but it'll tide me over for a good while. I just really like the direction M$ is headed..I'm waiting for PS3 though, but right now I'm at a happy home.
 
Ive' said it before and i will say it again, i still LOVE GT, i can always go back, grab that DFP and put in lap after lap and still feel content. Forza however, is doing big things for their next up and coming very soon title. Not to mention all of Dunkee's previous post, but 100 new engine swaps will be available in forza 2, as well as DRIVETRAIN swaps, insane!! Not only that, from reading up on the forza website, they are including real tuning parts from real manufactureres, as well as real tire manufactures. Each of the different tire manufacturers have different characteristics such as grip (coefficient of friction), responsiveness (peak slip angle) and heat and wear characteristics. They have really turned the upgrading portion of the game into a game in itself, some really detailed stuff. I am really looking forward to playing forza 2 when it comes out. I know GT5 will be amazing, and when it does come out, im sure it will lure me away from Forza 2 just as GT4 kept my attention over Forza 1. But until then, Forza it to me baby.
 
Not to mention Forza's new online car auction, i think its brilliant, especially for well know setup's experts. Imagine setting up your own little Tuning Company, and selling gems that you have created and tuned for the public to buy from you, or setting up custom rides from requests. It's a whole new world.
 
-> Now Immersion and Sony reached an agreement that brings light to the future of force feed back on the PS3 (and in GT5) in the near future. And I'm looking forward for the PS3 version of the sick Logitech G25.

-> How about cars that are featured on both of these games, Forza 2's car list looks mighty interesting, if not lacking in variety. Here a list of a few:

AC Schnitzer ACS6
Dodge Viper GTS ACR
JohnBM01's favorite Ferrari: #62 Risi Competizione F430GT

-> And I've heard some rumors that Forza 2 will have 'dymanic' A.I., and upgraded physics engine if not better graphic overall. Does that mean GT is getting itself some slack? Is PD not serious anymore? Is GT all about eye-candy and not content? Please feel free to continue. (:
 
Lets hope not, with FM2 taking much better care of its fanbase, knowing what Americans, Brits, Europeans and Japanese want, and bringing the heat in terms of A.I., online, and physics, and car list I think PD will have its hands full matching everything FM2 will have, except for graphics of course.
 
I really don't think Polyphony is all that worried about Forza. It was somewhat disappointing for MS to see it dead last on the million sellers list, with inferior games like Project Gotham, Burnout and Need For Speed outselling it. I think that was an utter shame.

But I came back to GT4 after spending about 10 months solid in Forza, and it was a delight to come back home. I can say that Forza really doesn't have anything on Gran Turismo. I mean, yes, having the body kits and paint shop so we can race mod to our heart's content was fantastic. Having supercars like Ferrari and Porsche is terrific. But the physics are decidedly sim-cade, more so than either GT4 or Toca, and the car list in GT4 is a car collector's dream. I do love Forza, but it was less of a sim than the fans shout about. Dan G is tossing that word "sim" around way too freely concerning Forza 2, so we'll see if he's blowing vapor here in a few weeks.

But the GT HD demo shows me that Kaz and the lads are at the top of their game, so I still see Forza in the rear view among earthlings, even if the 360 was selling like the Revolution (I hate Wii).
 
-> I have notice that since FM1, there were significant amount of cars that was highly ignorned by PD:

Saleen S281E '06
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII [US-spec] '04
Top Secret 0-300 Toyota Supra '01

^ Some people here in GTP, would love to have these cars intead of JDM Kei cars that was a staple in GT, and everyone disses on it.

-> So that means that the upcoming Forza 2 will be better in every angle compared to the upcoming GT5 with the exception of better graphics and steering wheel (Logitech G25)? Please sound off. (:
 
Tenacious D
I really don't think Polyphony is all that worried about Forza. It was somewhat disappointing for MS to see it dead last on the million sellers list, with inferior games like Project Gotham, Burnout and Need For Speed outselling it. I think that was an utter shame.

But I came back to GT4 after spending about 10 months solid in Forza, and it was a delight to come back home. I can say that Forza really doesn't have anything on Gran Turismo. I mean, yes, having the body kits and paint shop so we can race mod to our heart's content was fantastic. Having supercars like Ferrari and Porsche is terrific. But the physics are decidedly sim-cade, more so than either GT4 or Toca, and the car list in GT4 is a car collector's dream. I do love Forza, but it was less of a sim than the fans shout about. Dan G is tossing that word "sim" around way too freely concerning Forza 2, so we'll see if he's blowing vapor here in a few weeks.

But the GT HD demo shows me that Kaz and the lads are at the top of their game, so I still see Forza in the rear view among earthlings, even if the 360 was selling like the Revolution (I hate Wii).
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I saw a screen where Kaz had ideas of putting in a livery editor..which would be pretty cool. But makes you wonder where he got that idea from? PD is watching but that is good bc it will finally make GT a better game. BTW the tire physics in Forza were better. I'm sure many will not agree on this board though but w/e. Curious to see what the prologue will bring.
 
Tenacious D
I really don't think Polyphony is all that worried about Forza. It was somewhat disappointing for MS to see it dead last on the million sellers list, with inferior games like Project Gotham, Burnout and Need For Speed outselling it. I think that was an utter shame.

But I came back to GT4 after spending about 10 months solid in Forza, and it was a delight to come back home. I can say that Forza really doesn't have anything on Gran Turismo. I mean, yes, having the body kits and paint shop so we can race mod to our heart's content was fantastic. Having supercars like Ferrari and Porsche is terrific. But the physics are decidedly sim-cade, more so than either GT4 or Toca, and the car list in GT4 is a car collector's dream. I do love Forza, but it was less of a sim than the fans shout about. Dan G is tossing that word "sim" around way too freely concerning Forza 2, so we'll see if he's blowing vapor here in a few weeks.

But the GT HD demo shows me that Kaz and the lads are at the top of their game, so I still see Forza in the rear view among earthlings, even if the 360 was selling like the Revolution (I hate Wii).
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Gotta say I agree with you here D. I too went back to GT, even suffered through its annoyances, like switching to 1080 everytime I play. I hope its closer this time around, and since niether are out we will have to wait and see.
Just curiuos but how did the GTHD demo show you that PD is on top of thier game? I know it is gorgeus but hav'nt got a PS3 yet so is it really different from GT4?
 
^ Well, I am taking a number of people's word for it. But it is backed up by some very detailed, lengthy replays. Between Toca 3, GT4 and Forza 1, Forza was the least believable. There were very few times I felt like I was watching racing video in Forza, but every replay in GT4 and Toca had an uncanny realism about it, even with the subpar PS2 graphic capability.

Car behavior in all three games is very good, but Forza lacks in a few areas, such as its, dare I say it, tenacious grip of the road. It's apparent when you leave the track, as the cars stick to the ground and jiggle in sometimes amusing ways as those tires stick to every little undulation. In Toca and GT however, they bounce around dramatically and even flip in Toca. Also, in Forza, the cars refuse to lean around turns except in the most extreme maneuvers, even unmodified civilian cars which should wobble like a spring bed.

Just from watching replays, the physics in GT HD look even more refined. I'm sure that lacking FFB for now will hurt the immersion and connection to the road, as I felt in Forza, but with subsequent updates this should be fixed. But taking cars around the Eiger in HD is a breathtaking experience, just watching them, and it's the closest to being fooled in a game as I've seen yet. People have already posted of their family asking what race they were watching on the Speed Channel. This is what I'm talking about.

Turn 10 is being ninja-level secretive about Forza 2 video, and we have yet to see much from them as far as late build video, certainly zero racing footage. I hope that's not a bad sign.
 
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