Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

[Joey D]

I agree, I don't like having to race supercars and racecars...kinda takes the weekend warrior racing feel out of the game. There is no way I would ever race an Audi R8 racecar, but there is a chance I could race a GTI.

 

[Kent]

The first thing I did with GT4 (once I was able) was run the McLaren F1 GTR on the Nurburgring.
Of course, that's not exactly weekend warrior but none the less, I wanted to mention it as a reminder that some of us enjoy those cars... Why do I mention the obvious?
Just my way of applying the Euro Accord-R situation in reverse.

I really don't like the little crap cars (that's what I call them usually) but I know there are others out there who love them. So what is to be done? Well that comes back to what I said earlier... Better to have cars you don't drive than not have cars you would drive.

Regarding the idea of downloadable content... I agree that it will be a great advance in gaming (in general) and T10 may be able to really use that to their advantage. However, I allowing the window to remain open on the idea that PD will do the same.

All in all, this is going to come down to the improvements each company makes on the previous game.
Big points for PD and T10 to get right in my book:
T10:
-Decals need to be car and brand specific... No more after market tuner brand stickers for cars that can't run their product. Also, make sure any tuner I can apply to my car is avaible as a decal brand for that car.
-Track replication for places like the Nurburgring needs to atleast match PD's efforts from GT4. Simple as that... Track list could use an expansion as well (and I expect that has already been confirmed).
-Car list... I was talking about this earlier today (as with much of the material here). When you have tuning options like Forza, you need to have the base model of every car possible. Allowing upgrades from there is a perfect way to let users get what they want everytime.
(honorable mention but not a deal breaker... physics, handling of cars with the controller wasn't very good)
PD:
-Mods... You've got to get with the game and atleast match FM2 (not gonna happen ) How about Just a PaintShop.
-Day & Night realtime values... 24hr Race = 24hr progression of Light-> Dark-> Light with the values you would expect.
-Mid Race Saves... Need I explain how fundamental this is to the player of a 24hr hour race (even on B-spec)? (NOT_A_Legal disclaimer: Playing any video game for extended periods of time may affect the player's vision)
-The low speed and roll-over physics need to match the competition. The conditions GT4 used were pathetic (as "Dave_A" so well displayed).👍

For Forza I feel like the work is all really simple to fill... Almost like cutting away fat from the base design. Nothing in their philosophy needs to fundamentally change. As a player, my one place to bend would be the physics. I believe FM2 would continue to bother me temperarily, not continually (I hope), and just like any racing game, I would adapt.

On PD and GT...
I my opinion (who am I to say ),
GT needs a slight philosophy change. The enthusiasm is great, the quality is high, but we need more fluidity in design if you expect the product to hold value. However, the overall quality really is great and more importantly... With a few corrections to GT4 and none of the fast and furious, GT5 can definately be a great game.

 

[afc2112]

Video games, on principle, allow you to do things that you wouldn't be able to do in real life...That's why it's more logical to be racing an R8 racecar, because if I truly wanted to race a GTI, I would buy one & race it!!

Frankly, I abandon the regular cars once I get enough money/credits. For both Forza & GT, my garage only has best sports cars available (whether its a supercar or not) & the legendary classics.

 

[Joey D]

If you have that much money by all means go buy a GTI and race it. I don't have that kind of money hence why I love drive realistic, slow, non-racing cars around realistic track. I'm more of a grassroots motorsports fan then I am organized motorsports. I would love for them to put autocrosses in these games.

 

[Tenacious D]

I was curious to what you thought of the demo..some I agree w/ you, others I'm confused about.

Did you play Foza 1 w/out abs?

Halfway through my time with Forza, I finally broke down and worked on calibrating the brakes to my taste so I could drive with no assists at all. I'll do the same thing with Forza 2, and heck, it means some more prize money.

And I really dig the demo. The more I race, the more I like it, and the more I want the full game.

Do you drift? Idk for better lap times I try to keep the tires as quiet as possible so I guess I never noticed. I think it's good though.

I'm a non-drifter, but like you I try to keep from roaring around curves. I was really proud of myself when I could race in Forza without squealing the tires, which wasn't easy with no force feedback on my MadCatz wheel.

This one really blew me away..I think the M3 drove awesome. It's a very stable car and a lot of ppl like driving it. I mean it isn't as new and advanced as the 911 but for what it is drives great.

The 350Z may or may not have too much oversteer..I can't decide. I drove my friend's in real life but not hard enough to know it's limits. I was in the car w/ him once and he took a turn (similar to Mugello's first turn) a little too fast and we spun out on the exit..so maybe.

I'm curious what others who have played the demo think about these cars.

The M3 seems like it should be a lot more stable than the Porsche 911-997, which is a mid-engined car. But the more time I spent with it, the better I got to know it. The 350Z is puzzling. It acts almost like a mid-engined car too. But with practice and upgrades of course, it'll be a monster.

You are hungry cause PD is not feeding anyone any info! Thank goodness I have Forza 2 to hold me over until the next big thing. BTW did you get the "zephyr" or reg 360?

Oh, I'm a GT fanboy till death, but you have to know that my addiction to Forza is a very close second, when I'm going to end up spending more than $800 US just to play Forza 2. I got the 360 Elite on launch day, and the day before the demo came out I bought the MS FFB Wheel - that still irks me. But as Kent says, playing Forza 2 with the hand controller is a bear.

 

[97modman]

The M3 seems like it should be a lot more stable than the Porsche 911-997, which is a mid-engined car. But the more time I spent with it, the better I got to know it. The 350Z is puzzling. It acts almost like a mid-engined car too. But with practice and upgrades of course, it'll be a monster.

Uhh..NO!!...997 will be alot more stable than a M3 period, especially an E36(95-99)..please let me know where you have received your info.. M3 FR and a 997 AWD Rear Engine platform not Mid Engine..here is some reading for youhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911

 

[Ben Aracin]

In regards to using regular cars and tuning them, there is always one thing all the console sims (F1&F2, EPR, & GT series) have done is class/lvel tuning of a car for each racing bracket.
I always found it ridiculous to get a JGTC Supra and slap more power etc on it.
If they want to bring it to the next level there should really be limits to that kind of upgrading on pure race cars.
As for the regular cars, the tuning/upgrading should have class limits.

Example = Buy a Mustang GT,Porsche,BMW,etc and upgrade/tune it for say SCCA's Speed GT series.
That car would then be half locked into that class.
Yes you can keep tuning it for more power etc but that's also part of the problem with all these series.
Just constantly trying for more power and or faster cars is not really the way to go and until one of them do add a penalty system and or dissqualified system no console sim will trully bring that next level experience.
I play these expecting to RACE not just tune and i would very much like to see that reflected in the game's race class setup, not just FF,FR,4WD, etc.
Taking a toyota starlet or mirage cyborg and just dumping the upgrades into it then stomping the only class FF they have isn't fun.
They NEED to have a bracket system.
Like FF light mods,FF medium mods,FF hard mods, FF stock etc and do that for the other car clases as well.
I would gladly sacrifice damage system for a better race bracket system.

 

[dunkee]

^That would be kinda cool. I don't think it would be processor heavy either.

 

[Dave A]

That wouldn't be processor heavy at all, the only restrictions to what you can do to your car should be the entry requirements of the series you want to race it in. I think that the races in GT5 should have a better worked out rules structure with more parameters for entry which would not onl create a closer grid of cars but it would also work well in diversifying the competitions as well.

 

[Kent]

Was just looking for footage of the BMI tuner battle with the "Tom's IS45" when I came across this...
http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/news/2006_09.html

Says BMI, Sport Compact Car magazine, and FM2 teamed up for some sort of promotion.
Not saying it means something but I'm not saying it means nothing either.
Again, not saying it's important but I'm not saying it's irrelavant either.

I wonder if PD will try something like this when it comes time for GT5.

 

[dunkee]

ok so maybe they're both in cahoots w/ each other. But it doesn't matter..your favorite pro driver could tell that the game is good and you still won't trust it. So go play, let us know what you think.

 

[unv412]

Hi guys,
new to this forum......not new to GT1/2/3/4,enthusia,fm1.....have 2 say i dont care wether i race GTi,supacar or race car (im a bit of a slut racer!!!) as long as the experience is as close to real life ill b happy.And the only way ill be happy is if either fm2 or gt5 provide the closest simulation to actully doing it in real life.
Here hopeing

 

[Tenacious D]

In regards to using regular cars and tuning them, there is always one thing all the console sims (F1&F2, EPR, & GT series) have done is class/level tuning of a car for each racing bracket. I always found it ridiculous to get a JGTC Supra and slap more power etc on it. If they want to bring it to the next level there should really be limits to that kind of upgrading on pure race cars.

As for the regular cars, the tuning/upgrading should have class limits.

A return to GT2's system of restrictions would be a good idea, so that you aren't allowed an easy victory by simply putting another $30,000 of parts in your car. I do think strict limits and rules are more appropriate to - and I know I harp on this a lot - a Career Mode, which I do want to see. But restrictions and proper homologation of all cars so that they compare well to each other in performance is what Polyphony needs to have waiting for us in Gran Turismo 5.

 

[Kent]

I just watched this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72tj87px77w
Not a great video...
However, at the end of the video there is a crash. Just before the crash, the driver swerves back and forth at high speed on a long straight... Looks bad, way to quick and twitchy even for an Enzo. Maybe a Formula1 car could do what this video shows but it is somewhat disappointing to me.
Still headed to take that test drive with Forza2 but I'm not expecting as much as before after seeing this video.
(Sadly the video also reminded me that "car damage" still doesn't kill your car after going head-on into the barriers at high speed )

 

[Joey D]

I think the driver was swerving like that on purpose, and at least something happens to the car when you hit a barrier unlike in GT where you just bounce off and keep on going. I really don't understand why there is so much hate against Forza, it's a great game.

 

[Kent]

I think the driver was swerving like that on purpose, and at least something happens to the car when you hit a barrier unlike in GT where you just bounce off and keep on going. I really don't understand why there is so much hate against Forza, it's a great game.

"hate against forza"
Dude, I'm not hating.

The driver was obviously swerving on purpose, that's the point of my disappointment... Don't you think that car was going a little fast to be making back and forth turns that quickly? It looked like he was in an F1 at 50mph but he was actually in an Enzo at the end of a long straight (I'm guessing well over 100mph). I'm not trying to hate, I'm just pointing out a side of Forza2 that will never be exposed by fanboys. I take no joy in seeing this footage, I'm hoping that upon playing it I will find this vid to be mis-leading.

And for the crashing... Slightly different situation... I'm not trying to hate on Forza, I'm hating on damage in general. I appreciate damage in games but I'm still hard on the gaming community about the idea of pushing for damage and realism and then praising something like this... Forza 1 did a good job with console simulation damage, not a great job, but a good job. 👍 This is Forza 2 though, shouldn't Forza players hold Turn10 to the standard of improving what was such an important part of the first game (even though it was, as I am pointing out, fundamentally flawed)?

I believe we should all hold each of the developers to the same standards. When I point out something like this video I'm doing the same sort of thing I do with many other games (including GT1,2,3,4).

When you see me "hating" on Forza, I see you getting upset for no reason.
Just look at what I'm saying... It's not Forza is bad and GT is good... It's simply, look at this video.

My commentary on it was simply my feelings at the moment... If you can't handle that then you need to ask yourself if you can handle participating in an open internet discussion forum (just kidding).

Bottom line:
The driver showed what looked to be very unrealistic levels of grip (but looks can be deceiving).
The crash highlighted a problem with the damage from Forza 1, Forza 2, and inevitably, GT5.

 

[Joey D]

I wasn't saying you were hating on Forza in particular, but just many people on these forums in general. I know it's a GT forum but can't we respect things that aren't GT?

I've never driven an Enzo, I have no idea what it's like at speed...hell come to think of it I've never even seen an Enzo in motion. Could it handle like an F1? I don't know.

Forza 2's damage looks to be improved over the original after playing the demo but whether or not people are going to say it is or not is up to the player. Frankly I see damage as a pointless addition to a game, the only thing it adds is what X car looks like when it's been wrecked. If I wanted to see what an Enzo crash looked like I would Google Eddie Griffon.

Forza 2 also looks and feels better in general then Forza did, I see an improvement but I will reserve final judgment till I pick up the game on Tuesday. I'm basing my decision right now on the demo.

But what I'm just sick of is the amount of fanboyism on the GT series which has it's fair share of flaws. I agree Forza is not (will not) be a perfect game, the first thingsthat comes to mind is the lack of cars, lack of a cockpit view, and what I feel may be a lack of tuning. But the way I see it is why not just buy both GT and Forza games if you have the respective systems? Even if Forza's graphics aren't as good (which hold 0% weight on whether a game is GOOD or not) it's still going to be an enjoyable game. GT5? I would wager it's going to be an equally a good game.

 

[Dave A]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyB5NonQowg
The Enzo on TopGear, it's bloody quick. Especially round the last two turns.

Fanboys go both ways though Joey, I've seen just as many Forza fanboys as I have GT relatively speaking.

 

[Joey D]

Meh when it comes to these games I think both are just as good, I'll buy both and have twice the entertainment that a fanboy will not.

 

[ChadSpeed]

Meh when it comes to these games I think both are just as good, I'll buy both and have twice the entertainment that a fanboy will not.

I'm with you.

Kent the damage has improved in FM2, you can take yourself out of the race when the damage is set on Simulation. Turn10 also recorded the sounds of cars crashing to get it right, its spot on. I'm sure the damage will be more forgiving than real life but a head on into the wall will make it impossible for you to win the race, you'll be limping around in last if you don't restart. I'll find out Wednesday and post in this thread what I think about the full game. So far I'm pleased with the demo, but this current news on GT5 is getting me all giddy. After Wednesday another long agonizing wait remains.....will PD step up and open nice site like Turn10 Bungie and many others to give us info pics vid and place to talk to the devs, I hope so.

 

[Kent]

I'm glad to hear damage has improved. At the same time though, I'm still in the "no damage or get it right" mood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4dqYKbnPCQ
How fast do you think eddie was going?
I doubt it was anything close to what we saw in the FM2 video I posted a few replies back.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, but there your getting into problems with licensing. Manufacturers have an immense say on how damage is represented on thier cars. Personally I'm happy with that that none at all, as long as it influences how you race in the all right ways.

 

[Kent]

Indeed, you are right Dave. 👍
I admit that it is nice to have damage, it's just that sometimes I wish for more accurate portrayals. Of course, I'm not going to get that with most games so it's not a big deal.

In any case, I'm just looking forward to getting my test of the FM2 so I can finally make a decision on the X360.
Kind of odd that I would make my decision on that... Maybe I should consider some of the other games as well. I understand GTR is going to be on the 360 and if that is the case (based on what I've heard of GTR) FM2 might be replaced by GTR as the selling point for the system.

 

[GTXLR]

Indeed, you are right Dave. 👍
I admit that it is nice to have damage, it's just that sometimes I wish for more accurate portrayals. Of course, I'm not going to get that with most games so it's not a big deal.

In any case, I'm just looking forward to getting my test of the FM2 so I can finally make a decision on the X360.
Kind of odd that I would make my decision on that... Maybe I should consider some of the other games as well. I understand GTR is going to be on the 360 and if that is the case (based on what I've heard of GTR) FM2 might be replaced by GTR as the selling point for the system.

GTR is currently off the 360 menu as i understand it at this moment!
THQ the games distributor dropped the title at the beginning of this month.
Simbin have indicated a new deal is likely, but as of yet, i have seen no news confirming.

 

[shawtyoner]

GTR is currently off the 360 menu as i understand it at this moment!
THQ the games distributor dropped the title at the beginning of this month.
Simbin have indicated a new deal is likely, but as of yet, i have seen no news confirming.

Are you "F"ing kidding me?!?!? I was waiting for that game more so than FM2!! Thats a shocker to me, i had no idea. Man, that just ruined my weekend.

I personally prefer damage, even if it isn't that great over no damage at all, i mean if you bang into a wall, you shouldn't drive away from it in a car that still looks like if it had just rolled off the lot, seeing your car mashed up should make you wanna cry.

 

[afc2112]

I was also looking forward to GTR. Some people hold the view that THQ was dropped by Simbin, instead of the other way around.

 

[GTXLR]

I was also looking forward to GTR. Some people hold the view that THQ was dropped by Simbin, instead of the other way around.

Whichever way round it was, its obvious there was disagreements about the direction the game was taking!
Maybe THQ wanted it to be more arcadish to really shift the numbers instead of a high quality sim, and im sure Simbin wouldnt want to take that route.
There were rumours that Simbin had found another publisher, but as yet no announcement, i hope they get it sorted soon!

 

[n o o d l z]

Until the Xbox supports a 900-degree wheel (or at least something more than 200 degrees), I won't even ponder over the GT/Forza debate.

 

[Mark T]

I believe that when GT5 does arrive it will be an immense game, but the problem is the release date. People become impatient and will always look for that hit of racing they need. Forza 2 will tempt a quite a few people but GT5 will win that battle when it is eventually released in 2015.

 

[TopHat]

I think that unless GT steps up to Forza 2's level of gameplay, damage, and online capability ( Auction Houses, etc.)