Dodge Dart: DEAD?

[homeforsummer]

I'm sorry, but it's just not a true Dodge to me. A true Dodge to me has 8 cylinders, not 4.

News just in: Disco is still in fashion. And afros. And flares.

*Bzzzzt*

Sorry, thought I was in the 1970s for a second there.

I've always been a muscle car fan and I cannot stand small engines or foreign cars for that matter!

Ah, the root of the problem. Still, have fun picking a car that isn't small engined when you start learning to drive and gas is $8 a gallon.

It's odd, because I've driven a couple I4 Dodges that would destroy nearly every V8 Dodge ever made without a Hemi badge of some kind on it.

Except BMW ultimately seemed to agree with that assessment.

Just saiyan.

True dat. It was still a massive fuss about nothing though. A name's a name, especially when it's just a jumble of alphanumeric characters. It's perhaps different when there've been fifty years of something like a 911, but even then that didn't stop cars like the MINI and Beetle being vastly different from the cars they parodied. With the Dart, there'd been a thirty year gap between old and new.

So, let me get this straight... A bunch of people who weren't even alive when the Dart was on sale, let alone being capable of picking the Dart out of a lineup of a slew of mediocre base versions of cars that eventually became legendary-ish vehicles are upset with Dodge using a name that is trademarked and owned by them?

Guess what? What Dodge wanted to have happen is happening. You're talking about the Dart. Before you even know what it is, you're up in arms about a car you know nothing about, and you're going to be sooooooo interested in what it turns out to be so that you can make a final decision as to what it is. In the end, Dodge wins no matter what the name is.

👍

 

[SuperShouden]

It's odd, because I've driven a couple I4 Dodges that would destroy nearly every V8 Dodge ever made without a Hemi badge of some kind on it.

This is very true. Dodge makes one of the most powerful I4s in existence. The Neon SRT4 was just plan flat insane, as was the Shelby Omni (the SRT4 was more so...I'll never forget tuning one to hit 240mph in GT4. It's not real life, but going 240mph in an I4 is insane no matter where it's done.) Heck, a highly modified SRT4 engine set the I4 land speed record. (Also, until the Charger was released, the SRT4 Neon was the second most powerful car Chrysler made. Not just Dodge, but Chrysler as a whole. Even when the SRT4 was discontinued it was still 4th at Dodge, behind the Charger, Challenger and Viper. The Shelby GHL was probably the most powerful Dodge of it's time, as well.)

The engine is not a problem, and, in fact, I'm sure FIAT will put it to great use. The Dart SRT4 should be pretty cool and hopefully pretty fast. I would hope, if they're going to call it the Dart that it would regain it's awesome status as at least the 4th most powerful car Dodge makes. That's where it belongs.

I think my final judgement on the I4 Dart will be after it's released and after we see the specs and if FIAT will let wash the nasty Caliber taste from the mouths of Mopar fans.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

It's gotta be better than what Chevy did to the poor Nova in the 80's.

 

[Camaroyenko]

It's gotta be better than what Chevy did to the poor Nova in the 80's.

Ditto.


I'm not even gonna reply to all this crap about me, it'd probably be a brutally long post.

 

[Blackbird.]

So iconic, it hasn't been used for 35 years...that nameplate today has only slightly more cachet than Volare

I realize its not 1970 anymore, hell I wouldn't be born for another 21 years. Being around my father I'm very familiar to classic muscle cars and I just don't think Dart was a good choice. An original name would have been better. Since it seems to be an original car.

 

[chuyler1]

The name can draw attention, but if the car doesn't line up with the name's heritage it will fail. Case in point...

1999-2000 Mercury Cougar (a complete and utter failure)
2004-2006 Pontiac GTO (a valiant effort, but missing the retro look)
1995-2005 Chevy Monte Carlo (low sales, but stuck around)

 

[Keef]

To be fair, calling a brutish V8 coupe a "Dart" is kind of embarrassing to the car. Heritage, I know, but literally speaking, darts are weak and fragile and the fins come off and the tip is plastic. The word "dart" is actually rather cute.

Now, if they'd have called the old barnstormer the Machine Gun or something, then yeah, that'd be stupid to put on a small car. But Dart actually fits this car better than the old one.

 

[Tornado]

To be fair, calling a brutish V8 coupe a "Dart" is kind of embarrassing to the car. Heritage, I know, but literally speaking, darts are weak and fragile and the fins come off and the tip is plastic. The word "dart" is actually rather cute.

In the 1960s/1970s they had lawn darts.

 

[rb26x]

I think that it should be called the Omni. That way it could compete with the Fiesta (both ugly slow hatches from earlier on) and the SRT-4 could be like the turbo GLH. The only quick old Fiesta I know of is my friend's brother, which has a Mazda I4 turbo.

 

[Keef]

In the 1960s/1970s they had lawn darts.

More deadly, yes, but still not as deadly as bullets or missiles. I mean hell the kids are SMILING. Hemi V8s do not smile.

 

[SuperShouden]

More deadly, yes, but still not as deadly as bullets or missiles. I mean hell the kids are SMILING. Hemi V8s do not smile.

They're only smiling until one of them dies. Then the screaming and class-action lawsuits happen. Lawn darts were actually featured on 1000 Ways to Die. And they have caused several injuries and deaths. In fact, in 1988, the CPSC banned them in the US and Canada banned them shortly after.

 

[Tornado]

More deadly, yes, but still not as deadly as bullets or missiles. I mean hell the kids are SMILING. Hemi V8s do not smile.

You'd have a pretty big smile on your face behind the wheel of a Ramcharger Dart right up until you wrapped its drum-braked, unassisted steering, skinny-tired craziness into a tree.



Possibly even after that.

 

[Keef]

Ramcharger Dart

Might as well have called it a Terrifyinglyawesome Paperwad.

 

[YSSMAN]

Now that is how you rant.

I think the most irritating thing about this "Dart" and the point you completely missed was...this isn't actually a Dodge. It's a re-badged Alfa Romeo Giulietta.

I don't want this to sound condescending, but if you read in my post, I mentioned it as a selling point. With Fiat dragging their feet on actually giving us Alfa-Romeo, this is as close as we're going to get to a proper one. Using the 1.4L MultiAir from the Abarth 500, with a six-speed manual, I'm willing to bet that this Dart, in R/T trim, will be one of the best driving compacts on the road.

I don't care what the name is, or what memories it soils, it is the kind of car Dodge needs right now. If they want to differentiate themselves from the "safe" design and engineering decisions made by GM and Ford, this is a proper way of doing it.

 

[Zenith]

I don't care what the name is, or what memories it soils, it is the kind of car Dodge needs right now. If they want to differentiate themselves from the "safe" design and engineering decisions made by GM and Ford, this is a proper way of doing it.

They still could've called it an Omni

 

[Eric.]

There's probably still an Omni or two in every town rusting away looking sorry for itself though.

 

[Slash]

When I read the title I was like whhhhhaaaaaaaaattttt the muscle cars are coming back! ...And then I see this. bahhhhhhh

 

[Joey D]

Apparently the Dart will have an optional 9-speed transmission...which is just a tad overkill. I'm guessing it's only going to be on some eco spec model though.

Marchionne: 2013 Dodge Dart will have optional 9-speed auto, hit 40 mpg

Dodge might have teased us with a few images and some initial powertrain details on the 2013 Dart, but Fiat and Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne has provided even more in an interview with Reuters.

According to Marchionne, the Dart is one piece of a larger puzzle for Chrysler in 2013, and the all-new Dart – based off a widened and stretched Alfa Romeo Giulietta – will hit 40 mpg thanks to a host of new engines and transmissions.

As previously reported, the turbocharged 1.4-liter MultiAir fitted to the Fiat 500 Abarth will grace the top of the Dart range, but Dodge also plans to fit modified versions of the 2.0 and 2.4-liter World Gas Engine, comically rebranded as the Tigershark.

When the Dart debuts, a Fiat-sourced six-speed dual-clutch transmission will feed the front wheels, but later in 2013 Dodge will reportedly offer a nine-speed automatic gearbox supplied by the ZF Group and manufactured in South Carolina. ZF officials claim fuel economy will be boosted between 10 to 16 percent over the dual-clutch 'box, and that should put it handily in the 40 mpg range.

And that last bit is important, as Fiat will receive its final five percent of Chrysler stock from the feds when it produces a vehicle with a 40-mpg rating.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/07/marchionne-2013-dodge-dart-will-have-optional-9-speed-auto-hit/

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I actually like this idea, it so much better then CVT's....which are just awful.

 

[Omnis]

Question for Dodge design team: did you have to include the eyelid within the headlight housing? Was the goal to make the car look indifferent?

 

[Prince.M5]

In my opinion, dart is something that is sleek, sharp, aerodynamic, precise and fast. What we have here shouldn't be called a Dart. They should've preserve the name for something else that deserve to be called Dart, a performance muscle car.

This one isn't a bad car though, surely it will do its job well but just the naming is just wrong...

 

[Jondot]

Question for Dodge design team: did you have to include the eyelid within the headlight housing? Was the goal to make the car look indifferent?

You'd look indifferent too if you were about to be given more gears than a mountain bike.

 

[SuperShouden]

Ugh. Why can't companies let Dodge and Chrysler be themselves. I mean, when Chrysler wanted to produce the ME 4-12, Mercedes didn't want them to be upstaged by Chrysler and refused to let them produce the super car. And now, with FIAT in charge, they give the Dart and underpowered Italian I4? If I were in charge and they insisted on an I4 for the Dart, I would say "Well, let's stuff the Neon's engine in it. That engine's more powerful than anything Alfa Romeo can put in it."

 

[Zenith]

Ugh. Why can't companies let Dodge and Chrysler be themselves.

Because when the companies are themselves they don't sell cars...

 

[homeforsummer]

Ugh. Why can't companies let Dodge and Chrysler be themselves. I mean, when Chrysler wanted to produce the ME 4-12, Mercedes didn't want them to be upstaged by Chrysler and refused to let them produce the super car. And now, with FIAT in charge, they give the Dart and underpowered Italian I4? If I were in charge and they insisted on an I4 for the Dart, I would say "Well, let's stuff the Neon's engine in it. That engine's more powerful than anything Alfa Romeo can put in it."

So there were 200hp Neons, then?

1.4 MultiAir turbo from the Giulietta: 170hp
1750 TBi from the Giulietta (and therefore more than possible for a Dart R/T): 235hp

If ever there was proof that people knew very little about modern cars (or at least proof that people are incapable of getting away from outdated, moronic prejudices), it's how they assume that giving Dodge a Fiat platform is somehow worse than if Chrysler was just left to their own devices.

Because when the companies are themselves they don't sell cars...

That too. Ford has seen fit to look to Europe for its small cars and the Chevy Cruze is based on a European platform too. Only the Sonic is all-American, but over here it gets pretty average reviews. The Dart's predecessor, the Caliber, was crap wherever it was sold. In the UK even the old Neon was distinctly average. For the U.S. makers to survive their best plan of action for making money as people downsize is to use European platforms.

 

[SuperShouden]

So there were 200hp Neons, then?

1.4 MultiAir turbo from the Giulietta: 170hp
1750 TBi from the Giulietta (and therefore more than possible for a Dart R/T): 235hp

The SRT4 Neon had 230hp. And Dodge, themselves, provided an Extreme Lightweight version that pumped the little car up to 360hp with 383ft/lbs of torque and it weighed about 2500lbs. The Extreme Lightweight ran the 1/4 mile in 11.83 seconds. In comparison, the new SRT-10 Viper of the same year ran the 1/4 in 11.7 seconds, only about 1 tenth of a second faster than the little Neon. Making the Extreme Lightweight SRT4 Neon the 3rd fastest Dodge ever built.

Yeah. The A835 was a great engine. It will be missed.

(BTW, the stock 2004 SRT4 was about as fast in the 1/4 as a stock Magnum SRT8...yeah, the little I4 just as fast as a Hemi. So...yeah, the Dart name COULD work, if FIAT really wanted it to, but they don't.)

 

[RTSolvalou]

The government bails them out during the GFC, and then they go and make this 'car'?

 

[homeforsummer]

The SRT4 Neon had 230hp.

I completely forgot about the SRT4. It was actually a semi-serious question too

Yeah. The A835 was a great engine. It will be missed.

But pretty poor in many areas compared to today's engines. That TBi Alfa unit makes 230-odd hp and does 30mpg (US) all day long. The "base" 1.4 is hardly slow for an "economy car" as it'll no doubt be known in the US (7.6 to 60, 135mph) and will do a comfortable 40mpg (US) (and the Dart should do that too, judging by the latest reports).

Given the amount of extra weight, comfort, safety etc in modern cars the Alfa engine, that makes the same power and torque as the Neon's one from less capacity, actually does a pretty good job. And even the lower engine will be more than suitable for hauling about something that's considered a cheap compact car.

So...yeah, the Dart name COULD work, if FIAT really wanted it to, but they don't.

All complete conjecture. You're automatically assuming it's going to be crap because you've got into your head that Fiat is deliberately screwing the brand. Their aim is to help Chrysler make money, something Chrysler isn't very good at on their own.

It still comes back to the same points: People are far too precious about the Dart name, and people don't seem to understand the way the modern auto industry works.

 

[Jim Prower]

I don't see the big deal with calling it a "Dart." This is a subcompact 4-door, and people with their misty-eyed muscle car dreams are all up in arms. I don't get it. Most Darts came with Slant 6s anyway, hardly Musclecars. The car was the long-lived economy car of the Dodge lineup - If Dodge had continued their naming scheme from the '60s to today, the current Avenger would be called a "Dart," and I'm not entirely certain that's a better idea.

I do like the looks of the car, remaining aggressive while not being beat constantly with the ugly stick like the Caliber. I want to see it as a touring car.

 

[Joey D]

The government bails them out during the GFC, and then they go and make this 'car'?

Would you rather them build a car on dated technology like they did with the 200C?

Seriously the Dart is going to be the modern day Neon, there's nothing wrong with that. The Neon was excellent in it's day and still proves to be pretty good in today's world too as a small commuter car or weekend racer.

 

[noisiaturismo]

Wasn't that a modified Alfa? It looks great from what I could see, couldn't care about the name like normally (altrough I wonder if you can use it for darting)

More deadly, yes, but still not as deadly as bullets or missiles. I mean hell the kids are SMILING. Hemi V8s do not smile.

Great advertising, the boy is being killed.