Does Anyone Actually Enjoy A-Spec Enduros?

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How do you feel about A-Spec enduros?


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I'm now 13 hours in (c.3 min gap to 2nd) and the race is on longer really enjoyable, despite the Nrub being a great track and the car feeling nice to drive... Initially, driving in the dark was a novelty, but I have got to the point now where the night aspect makes no difference (my lap times are actually getting faster), and finding ways to make the 6 laps stints interesting is becoming increasingly hard.

I'm sort of praying for rain to spice up the difficulty a bit.

Le Mans is going to take some real commitment to complete as I get far less enjoyment out of the track... I can see myself using the X1 for Tsukuba just so I only have to run a bit over half the race.
 
...*snip*...my lap times are actually getting faster

That's a common phenomena in these 24hr races. Seems that most folks put in the best time during hours of darkness.

Anything you can do to ease the pain of Tsukuba is worth a shot Stotty. I ran the whole thing in one day and wanted to shoot myself by the 7th hour :D

I really love doing the Enduro's though. Just wish PD would create some in the seasonal races.
 
Just finished Tsukuba 9hr, and I can confirm that nearly 600 laps is too many... But I still enjoyed all the other enduros up till this point. After I knock off the seasonals that have been stacking up while that race has been ongoing, it's on to the 24hr enduros. At least they're on longer tracks...
 
Just finished Tsukuba 9hr, and I can confirm that nearly 600 laps is too many... But I still enjoyed all the other enduros up till this point. After I knock off the seasonals that have been stacking up while that race has been ongoing, it's on to the 24hr enduros. At least they're on longer tracks...

Well done!!👍

Nine hours of wonderful midday sunshine is too unreal. I'm sure you'll enjoy the dynamic weather and time of the Nurb and Sarthe enduros.
 
I never did the longer endurance races, mainly because back when I played we didn't yet have the option to save during races and there was no way I was committing to a 12 or 24-hour race without being able to save and turn off my PS3. It wasn't even about hardware reliability, but just that I don't want it running when I'm not playing. I did the shorter ones like the Indy 500 one.

I have to say, I got bored to tears during the Indy 500 event. I started eating cookies or whatever else to amuse myself during all the repetition. By that I mean steering with one hand and eating with the other. I didn't even have to shift gears; just steer. At one point I paused it and jammed on my helmet just to pretend I'm actually driving the car for a while until it got so humid in there that I couldn't stand it and took the helmet back off.
 
Do I understand correctly that you can't pit and save the race state to disk, then go on to other events and come back later? If it's saved, I don't understand the limitation.
 
If we imagine that they had implemented it that way... suppose you run the car in use for a thousand miles between sessions in the race. What should happen to its performance in the race? What happens if you sell the car between sessions? How do you design the menu item to access the saved race?

The way they implemented it, they don't have to design to any of the difficult questions. All they have to do is dump the race state to disk, and put a startup hook to restore the race state from disk.
 
Do I understand correctly that you can't pit and save the race state to disk, then go on to other events and come back later? If it's saved, I don't understand the limitation.

Yes that is how it works. It's most likely limited like that because:



A ) It took them a long time to get this implemented and probably took them a long time to get it to work [mostly] properly. The less variability when adding something difficult, the better. Doing other events would mean changing money, experience, items, cars, current car, car settings, miles driven, races won, car switch count, events completed/best results, best lap times, replays, photos and who knows how many other things after that race was saved. Then there is the problem of what to do with the car locked up in the middle of the race. Even arcade and online racing change things permanently.

Some of those things might seem simple to deal with, some would obviously raise issues, but all of them are potiential problems that could very well cause untold consequences right away or some unkown time later. So it would be necessary to extensively test and be sure that there is no conflict anywhere with anything, making adding the mid-race save much more difficult and time-consuming. Many people recently had a problem after a game update that rendered the game completely unplayable until they corrected the [often multiple] issues themselves or waited until PD was able to patch the problem several weeks later. It's not very hard to screw up a complicated program. GT5 has enough trouble keeping its savegame from corrupting as it is.



B ) You're in the middle of a race. It makes absolutely no sense to stop the race, get out of the car, get in another car, go take some pictures, get in another car, tune it up, go run 4 or 5 races, buy 2 more cars, paint one of them, take some more pictures and then go back and continue your race where you left off. It would be nice if you could perhaps do some arcade races or an online race you were signed up for well in advance, but both of those things can affect your garage and car status among other things as mentioned above, and online racing even involves continuing your GT-Life "career" as it is accessed from the same game mode as the race that is saved. While Arcade mode is separate, it still can make changes to the cars in your GT-Life garage.



All in all, it is a small price to pay for being able to run the longer races without having to leave the system precariously paused for days or weeks on end. It should really only be an issue with the longest races, as most of them are short enough that with a little planning they shouldn't ever take more than a couple days to complete. There are some people who seem to be only able to ever get an hour or so to play in a day (or to sit still for half an hour at a time) but do still want to run the marathon races, and thanks to mid-race saves they now can. Beats not being able to. Hopefully in the future the major issues can be all sorted out in the initial game's release.

Now that's a right proper wall of text answer to a two-sentence question.
 
That makes sense, I didn't realize the extent of inter-dependency on things like car mods and career variables. I guess when I get into tuning, car mods and turn on damage modeling I'll have a better perspective.
 
The only A-Spec endurance races that I like are the 24 hour ones, I think. I did the Le Mans 24 Hours once only (in an Audi R8). I didn't have the pace to keep up with the AIs, and I often had to take shortcuts to take back the lead. But during the race I actually liked it, and it's the only endurance race that I actually liked when I'm racing in it. I believe it's because of the day/night transition, as that's what (I think) makes the race less boring than the others.

I actually planned to do the Nurburgring 24 Hours when it's Easter, but unfortunately my PS3 didn't last that long, and it broke. :(
 
What happened to the good days of GT3 where no endurance race was much more than 2 hours?

I'm fine with doing either:
A) 2 hour endurance races by myself.
B) Up to 24 hour races as long as I can trade off with B-Spec
C)Anything up to about 8 hours as long as there's weather (and I wish that included day-night so the race would be more dynamic, even if it was just sunrise to sunset.)

Other than that, they get boring. 9 hours of Tsukuba with no changes in the daylight or weather is a bit boring. And the 24 hour races are just too long for me on my own.

If if were me, you'd have 3 types of enduros:
1. 2 hour basic endurances; No weather or day/night, by myself.
2. 6-9 hour advanced endurances; Weather and day-dusk time change, by myself.
3. 24 hour expert endurances; Weather, 24 hour cycle, ability to hand off to B-spec.

But I'm not at PD so that all means nothing.

This 👍

I've been playing since GT3 too and can't help thinking that the enduros keep getting worse, with a few exceptions like the El Capitan 200 mile from GT4.

Even if in this game if they had made different choices track/length things could have been so much better. Imagine if there had been a 2hr race at Cape Ring instead of the 9hr race at Tsukuba? Or a 500 mile race at Daytona road course instead of Indianapolis?
 
This 👍

I've been playing since GT3 too and can't help thinking that the enduros keep getting worse, with a few exceptions like the El Capitan 200 mile from GT4.

Even if in this game if they had made different choices track/length things could have been so much better. Imagine if there had been a 2hr race at Cape Ring instead of the 9hr race at Tsukuba? Or a 500 mile race at Daytona road course instead of Indianapolis?

I'm not sure why they would be getting worse. Some different variations might be nice, but they are trying to get a variety of endurance events and they apparently were dead-set on the 9-events-per-tier thing. I'd be all for several more of the shorter races, not necessarily replacing the ones we have(though I wouldn't cry about the loss of one of the Tsukuba races). I suppose they could have made a couple of shorter "endurance" race series though, that might have been nice and could have fit within the 9-event rule.

I'd hate to see the 4-hour Nürbugring race go, that one is probably the most fun of them all despite the lack of weather and lighting change. The 1,000km of Suzuka was a rather obvious race to include with all the premium Super GT cars, and rather fun if you get the pace right. Perfect length for racing in a single day too(if it doesn't rain). Le Mans and Nürburgring 24-hour races were also obviously going to be included due to having time and weather change, not to mention their iconic status. A 2-hour race at Cape Ring instead of 9 hours of Tsukuba might be nice for some, but you'd be losing a proper endurance race for a sprint - and who knows how the many Japanese gamers might feel about that race?

My mind boggles at the thought of trading the Indy 500 for an even duller Daytona 500... Daytona is a much less enjoyable track to drive as it is usually completely flat with no need to even worry about your line. It would fit nicely with the NASCAR aspect, but the shorter NASCAR race at Daytona shows they would have to at the very least give up their insistence on ASM to make it bearable. The lack of yellows would make it a very frustrating event indeed if it remained a slipstreaming race. 500 miles of Daytona with real people online? Sure. 500 miles of Daytona with bots? No thanks. If at all it should be a second 500-miler instead of replacing Indy.

I'm not sure what there specifically is to miss about the older enduros either, other than the tracks(read: SSR11 - the real version). You still had a field of opponents with only 1 or perhaps 2 legitimate competitors. Was it more fun that there only were 5 other cars to race instead of 11? Did the AI's inability to avoid plowing right into the back of a slower car with an 80mph speed difference make them better(or maybe that was just GT4, don't remember the earlier ones for sure)?

Having B-Spec in GT4(which I guess wouldn't count if they've been getting worse since GT3) was a nice idea, but I'd rather drive myself than have to deal with that again. Adding Bob to the race makes trying to calculate the pace you need for a good race virtually impossible since he's so slow, and it's even worse in GT5 because of the wide variability in how fast he might go depending on how the traffic works out if you walk away for a few minutes. I almost lost the Tsukuba-9 in GT4 because of him, it took me 6 or 7 hours to recover from the damage he caused in just 1 hour... I'd never even want to consider trying to make a competitive 24-hour race with taking a couple of 2-3 hour breaks while he drove.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see a lot of things changed(most obviously park-bots and blocking-lappers, along with the choice of opponents for the Nürburgring-24h), but I'm also not wishing for the good-old-days to return(except perhaps the ability to wait until you are satisfied that the race finishing order is correct before exiting the race). Doing enduros used to seem perhaps a little more fun because I hadn't run so many(and had never run any rFactor enduros until after GT4), but when I look at the many challenging races and nailbitingly close finishes and just general on-track experience I've had in GT5 at the GV300, Tsukuba-4, Laguna 200, Indy 500, Nürb-4, Suzuka 1000 and Nürb-24 -- and even the 9-hour wasn't too bad... I have to say that's one aspect of GT5 offline I'm actually not dissapointed with.

Sorry to take over the thread with my novels... I'll stop now. :)
 
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A carefully considered reply

I think that you've made some very good points and tbh I agree with most of what you've written. So with that in mind I thought that I should come clean and say what I think PD have improved since GT3.

Tyre life is more realistic.
Refuelling during pit stops.
Larger selection of cars to use.
More cars to race against.
More real circuits.
Weather and time change in some events.
Able to save a race while in the pits.

There are 10 events in GT3 they're all about 2-3 hours long. Two are still in GT5 Grand Valley Speedway 300km and Laguna Seca 200 miles. The Miata/MX-5 race continues at Tsukuba, originally it was at Apricot Hill. GT4 actually had 16 races, which I thought was a good number.

PD when using real circuits tend to base the length of the race on a real event at that circuit. I'm not sure that's a good thing as these events usually involve more than one driver.

Personally I like shorter (2-3 hour) events and don't mind if they're on fictional circuits as long as they're fun to drive on. I wouldn't call them sprints as they still involve pit stops.

I think that I got the name of the Daytona layout that I mentioned wrong. I meant the one that is used for the 24 hour race with the infield and chicane, not the other one.

Lastly I'm going to suggest a race that I'd like to see although I know it never will happen, a proper roadster event to replace the one that we have. A 300km/200 mile race at Autumn Ring for any open top or convertible, sports tyres only. It would include Cobra's, S2000's, 3400S's, Elise's, GSX-R's, Caterham's and many more. Can you think of one that you'd like to see?
 
No, I was just blind and didn't read the "road course" bit, sorry. The fact that you mentioned Indy probably helped me make the assumption. Guess it wasn't quite that "carefully considered." :lol:

I'd love to see a race there too, even with the wrong chicane and the wrong cars. Maybe make that one be the race with the cars used for the Nürburgring 24 and use GT cars (too bad there's a shortage of GT2/E/3 cars in the game) for the Nürburgring, as prototypes at the Ring are just plain crazy. Not that 24 hours of no HUD at the Ring from the cockpit of my super-heavy 787B on brick tires wasn't sheer bliss.

Shorter events are fun, although I'd consider 4 hours fairly short as enduros go. It does make sense however for there to be some real-life-length races as well as the one oval race even if that one does show the AI's idiocy pretty clearly. Some shorter races on those same tracks might be nice, they already re-use Tsukuba. Several more 2-4 hour races would be very welcomed by me for sure. I think limiting it to 9 races may have tied their hands a bit too much.

By the way, I used the term "sprint" for a 2 hour race mainly because that's what the 2-3 hour races in real-world series that run endurance races generally are called. Someone [with no official position] once told me "if it's less than 6 hours, it's not really an endurance race." Seems reasonable enough to me. 2-3 hours is a plenty long time for most gamers of course.
 
I would absolutely *love* these events if I could do my 4 hour stint and let my AI drivers take over for a while, have a bit of a sleep, eat, pee (and potentially, a massage!) etc. and then come back and do another one. You know, like they do in real life?

Am I the only one to notice this glaring flaw? So I voted "No, I hate it." That's really the only reason - it makes such a huge difference. It makes you feel like part of a racing team, not just some wacko egomaniac god the entire race depends on.

Plus there's no limit to the fun you can have shouting insults at an AI driver, while waiting for your turn!
 
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for me it is a really good way to train my consistency of lap times, but pd please, driving around tsukuba for 9 hrs is bs. also 24 hr nurburg plz let ai drive proper gt group cars... not lmp's -_-
 
for me it is a really good way to train my consistency of lap times, but pd please, driving around tsukuba for 9 hrs is bs. also 24 hr nurburg plz let ai drive proper gt group cars... not lmp's -_-

I strongly agree. I just got to level 40 and started the 24 hr Nurburgring race. I'm in 6 hours and only just lapped the 2nd place Audi R8 in my BMW V12 LMR. I would have much rather used the schulze N24 or a gt3 car to be more realistic to the real race.
 
I would absolutely *love* these events if I could do my 4 hour stint and let my AI drivers take over for a while, have a bit of a sleep, eat, pee (and potentially, a massage!) etc. and then come back and do another one. You know, like they do in real life?

Am I the only one to notice this glaring flaw? So I voted "No, I hate it." That's really the only reason - it makes such a huge difference. It makes you feel like part of a racing team, not just some wacko egomaniac god the entire race depends on.

Plus there's no limit to the fun you can have shouting insults at an AI driver, while waiting for your turn!

One big problem with that is that it only works if you can accurately predict your AI driver's times, otherwise it will be nearly impossible to determine the pace you'll need to meet to make it a competitive race.

I co-ran an endurance race with Bob once, never again. I spent 6 hours making up for his 1-hour stint.
 
Having completed 4 24h Le Mans races, 2 24h Nurburgring races, and 3 9h Tsukaba races (yes I did that multiple times), you could say that I "enjoy" enduro racing. I actually am addicted to it. I'd rather run 200 laps around one track than run 10 laps around 20 different tracks. 👍
 
Having completed 4 24h Le Mans races, 2 24h Nurburgring races, and 3 9h Tsukaba races (yes I did that multiple times), you could say that I "enjoy" enduro racing. I actually am addicted to it. I'd rather run 200 laps around one track than run 10 laps around 20 different tracks. 👍
I agree what you say I enjoy them too. 👍
 
I find enduros tedious so, no I don't enjoy them.
 
They had the right idea in GT4 being able to share drives with the B-spec driver. You throw some softs on punch out a good lead then pit & turn her over to trusty ol' bob, grab a beer & watch him smash your 2mil car into everything on the track.
 
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I strongly agree. I just got to level 40 and started the 24 hr Nurburgring race. I'm in 6 hours and only just lapped the 2nd place Audi R8 in my BMW V12 LMR. I would have much rather used the schulze N24 or a gt3 car to be more realistic to the real race.

though I am wondering if I could win the race with a maxed out zr1 rm, it has around 700 pp and just for the f1 seasonal i can detune to 720 pp (compared to 780pp) on nurburg and still finish at least 10 seconds ahead of ai's
 
though I am wondering if I could win the race with a maxed out zr1 rm, it has around 700 pp and just for the f1 seasonal i can detune to 720 pp (compared to 780pp) on nurburg and still finish at least 10 seconds ahead of ai's

The Zr1 RM is a very good nurburgring tamer. The only thing I would worry about is your pit strategy. The LMR I am using uses 49 liters every 3 laps so i can complete 6 laps on fuel while tires i get 3 laps a set out of. I would be interested to know how you do. Side note the Zr1 does have what it takes to win Le Mans in this game so I think it may have a chance at the 24 hr 'ring race.
 
I consider the endurance races the ultimate purpose of life, especially the Nürburgring and Le Mans ones.
Of course, you have to drive a seriously underpowered car at a lower PP than the opposition and on Sports Soft tyres for it to be really fun, but it keeps you on your toes.
 
A-Spec enduros aren't bad, but they are way to easy for me to beat. I usually win the race by 3 or 4 laps ahead of everyone else, but I had a lot of fun with B-Spec enduros. In the Indy 500 one, my B-Spec driver was in a Minolta, and was a lap behind 1st place, with only two laps left in race. My B-Spec driver and 1st Place both had low fuel, and 1st Place ended up running out of fuel which allowed my B-Spec driver to comeback and win the race.
 
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