Does "clean" mean anything anymore?

[HP]

I normally don't race online because too many people complain about "something that I did to them"...

The day that the DLC was released in the United States, I went online and hosted a room to try out the "new" X2011 on Monza to see if we can get faster times than on the Sebastian Vettel X Challenge. The majority of the people who joined the room wanted to race instead of hot-lap, so I started a race.

Right at the beginning, there was one driver who, for some unknown reason, was swerving on the first straight of Monza right before the chicane like a sidewinder snake. He bumped me and I was about to land in the grass; I eased off of the throttle to regain control as the driver hit me an additional four times before spinning out and landing in the grass. Then I just pushed up my throttle again and continued...

Once the driver hit the wall, you can expect the usual remark of "fag" or "wow" or "stupid noob". I personally thought it was lag on that driver's part, as none of the other drivers on the course were lagging out. So with that, he attempted to kick me before he gave up and left.

Later on in the same race, we got to the small S-curve about midway of the course. I usually cut in the curbs, but the other drivers attempted to do the same and, instead, ended up eating dirt. I assume they took the curbs at full throttle and had not eased off. They write in question; "how did u do that?".

I replied "Throttle control".

Of course, they said, "no u cheat," and left...

It's hard to find a relaxing room to race on nowadays (come on people gimme my kei-car race at the 'ring already!). Either someone has to be bound to sticking with schedules, or you eat the wallbangers' fury in the Open Lobbies...

Dude we have a group just for you I think! Check out C.R.A.P, the link is in my sig. Make sure you read the OP carefully if you're interested

 

[Tower Turn 13]

Trust racing to have like a thousand rules for racing.

Fixed for ya

 

[speedthrill]

What i do to avoid what OP had.
I start looking by "race for real" combined with "Skid Recovery off".

Then like some others say here, in that list try to find a non race tyre room.
99% (when you found it) this is a clean room.

this 3 way combo never let me down for the past 3 weeks.
Here and there, especially in the midfield, some people just lack talent and hit you in a pass. But not on purpose.

 

[esoxhntr]

What you say makes sense...up until this statement. Not my responsibility to move off my line. We aren't teammates, unless previously stated. No intention of helping every car or needing help for that matter. I'd rather keep clean and keep to myself. Seems like a good tactic, though, for those who are interested.

all i'm saying is it will happen and you're now aware. there's definately nothing dirty about it; it's a widely used tactic in all motorsports with the exception of open wheeled cars for obvious reasons. you're free to not like it but it doesn't change a thing.. you can move over, complain about a valid tactic on gtp or continue with your testosterone treatments.

now if someone does the same in a turn.. that's a different story.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

all i'm saying is it will happen and you're now aware. there's definately nothing dirty about it; it's a widely used tactic in all motorsports with the exception of open wheeled cars for obvious reasons. you're free to not like it but it doesn't change a thing.. you can move over, complain about a valid tactic on gtp or continue with your testosterone treatments.

now if someone does the same in a turn.. that's a different story.

I'll look into it. I believe you, I just don't see how ramming from behind actually helps the drafting car go faster. I've never seen bump drafting in the racing I watch--again, not saying it doesn't exist. But maybe it's a NASCAR thing? How on earth could le mans prototypes or f1 cars bump-draft without destroying their bodies immediately? And if it is a NASCAR thing does it belong outside of NASCAR? I feel like most cars would sustain extreme body damage from this kind of thing in real life.

The drafting I've always seen is coming up behind to secure the draft and then passing when an opportunity arises. I don't typically see contact, and if it does occur the car who caused it gets a black flag. This has always happened in the ALMS races I watch.

When I get a chance I'll do more research because this seems odd to me. I don't like other people scratching up my paintjob

 

[esoxhntr]

I'll look into it. I believe you, I just don't see how ramming from behind actually helps the drafting car go faster. I've never seen bump drafting in the racing I watch--again, not saying it doesn't exist. But maybe it's a NASCAR thing? How on earth could le mans prototypes or f1 cars bump-draft without destroying their bodies immediately? And if it is a NASCAR thing does it belong outside of NASCAR? I feel like most cars would sustain extreme body damage from this kind of thing in real life.

The drafting I've always seen is coming up behind to secure the draft and then passing when an opportunity arises. I don't typically see contact, and if it does occur the car who caused it gets a black flag. This has always happened in the ALMS races I watch.

When I get a chance I'll do more research because this seems odd to me. I don't like other people scratching up my paintjob

LOL..

Like I said, f1 / indy cars cannot do it but just about every other form of motorsport on pavement.

how it works in a nutshell: the car behind gets a boost in speed from drafting (we know that), he then pushes the car in front causing it to speed up, which in turn makes him speed up, another bump and well you get the picture, rinse and repeat. we are not talking a 10mph+ difference when contact occurs but its enough to speed up the leading car without causing damage. look at your speedo the next time it happens and you'll notice your increase in speed.. down a long straight (like the back straight on nurb) it can make quite a big difference in mph when you are working together.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

LOL..

Like I said, f1 / indy cars cannot do it but just about every other form of motorsport on pavement.

how it works in a nutshell: the car behind gets a boost in speed from drafting (we know that), he then pushes the car in front causing it to speed up, which in turn makes him speed up, another bump and well you get the picture, rinse and repeat. we are not talking a 10mph+ difference when contact occurs but its enough to speed up the leading car without causing damage. look at your speedo the next time it happens and you'll notice your increase in speed.. down a long straight (like the back straight on nurb) it can make quite a big difference in mph when you are working together.

Fair enough. Sorry if this concept confused me, but it was due to the following:

A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.

A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

This is for GTP series, obviously, not for open lobbies in general, and clean can mean different things to different people.

I get it, though. It makes sense as a technique between teammates. But me I'd rather everyone just keep their bodywork to themselves, and I don't want to contribute to someone else's first place. I'd rather they just use my draft and have to do the rest of the work themselves. Just a personal thing. In the series I run with we basically keep to ourselves and just make passes when they're available.

 

[yoman297]

Means more than nothing.

 

[speedthrill]

LOL..

Like I said, f1 / indy cars cannot do it but just about every other form of motorsport on pavement.

how it works in a nutshell: the car behind gets a boost in speed from drafting (we know that), he then pushes the car in front causing it to speed up, which in turn makes him speed up, another bump and well you get the picture, rinse and repeat. we are not talking a 10mph+ difference when contact occurs but its enough to speed up the leading car without causing damage. look at your speedo the next time it happens and you'll notice your increase in speed.. down a long straight (like the back straight on nurb) it can make quite a big difference in mph when you are working together.

In real life bump draft sometimes doesn't even need to push, if all works out ok and you stick yr car very close to the one in front constantly you can actually run away from the competition, without hitting him.

2 cars become 1, alot of Hp and one body shell where the wind and drag flies over and under, this somewhat brings the overall speed higher. Keep this up around a lap and you and the other one will take distance of the rest of the field, this is how me and a mate race online often. If we are in first and second, we're off.

A fine example in real life is the clio cup from the 2000/2005 series here in belgium. Very nice "escape the pack" drafting there.

In nascar you can combine it with bumpin.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Bump drafting isn't actually that common in racing outside of Nascar, but in GT5 it's definitely in play. In our Spec Cappuccino Cup race last night, we ran at Indy and using the bump draft, I was 3 seconds a lap faster than my Q time. Three of us broke from the pack and somehow won by 20+ seconds in a 14 lap race.

 

[ImprezaAddict]

Not anymore...

 

[PAPPACLART]

Please check this out https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=230587 will solve all of you problems if finding clean lobbies lounges is what you want.

 

[fiji]

fiji
Trust racing to have like a thousand rules for racing.

Fixed for ya

haha, racing ain't clean cut bud. watch some instead of gaming. maybe, take a car out to a race track.

RUBBING is racing.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

fiji
Trust racing to have like a thousand rules for racing.


haha, racing ain't clean cut bud. watch some instead of gaming. maybe, take a car out to a race track.

RUBBING is racing.

Yes I get it . But it does have rules. I watch plenty of racing. NASCAR seems to have the most contact out of any of the racing I've seen. Consequently I dislike NASCAR, though for unrelated reasons. Little bumps here and there are normal, I get that. I have no issue with some little bits of contact especially with a lap 1 packed field.

But avoidable contact is a real penalty, yes? I'm talking hits that cause spins or body damage IRL, which it doesn't really seem to take a whole lot. In the ALMS qualifying at Long Beach hell, even a somewhat small hit from behind caused penalties and a rather large disagreement between Risi Ferrari and another team (I think it was the Lizards or Faulken, I can't remember). And that wasn't even in the race.

No, it isn't all clean gentlemanly whoo-ha. But it isn't full of dangerous ramming idiots, either. Otherwise there would be plenty more injuries and fatalities in motorsports.

I know GT5 will never be a sim community. But I just prefer to respect what motorsport aspires to and the skill it takes to do it without all the dirty stuff.

 

[Mr.NSX]

From what i see from racing in real life and how GT5 racing should be is... The leading car has the right to choose any lane they want to drive on but once a car is beside you, you have to respect that cars space and give them room and not try to knock them off the road. You see this in F1, you see this in GT races all the time. Blocking on the straight is normal real life racing, but obi once the person is beside you like they're an inch into your bumper, you can't severe and hit them with your car. They're space has to respected and you have to give them space. Then again theres also Senna's racing style which lets his opponent choose, do you want a accident or will you back down?

 

[scarslasher]

Most of my accidents come from idiots pushing me into walls on turns.
Even in NASCAR, they push me into the wall good enough to spin me out and cause a pile-up. How do you take bad turns at DAYTONA?! D:

But yeah. Like has already been said, guess it's just lack of skill. Everyone was a newbie once. I'll exercise the same patience the room hosts exercised on me when I was getting used to how different my car felt online.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Most of my accidents come from idiots pushing me into walls on turns.
Even in NASCAR, they push me into the wall good enough to spin me out and cause a pile-up. How do you take bad turns at DAYTONA?! D:

It not about normal driving at Daytona you need to know how to race in a pack, the corners are simple but even moving half a metre of your line will cause trouble with cars 3 wide at 200mph, pack racing is a tough skill to master, I think racing so much NASCAR has helped me drive cleaner and have more awareness of over cars in over race modes.

 

[Madertus]

No matter where I go, there always are at least two douches who "race" oncoming or slam into my and others' cars. Like seriously, what is so awesome in crashing when you don't even have a nice damage model?

 

[Niels]

Didn't read the entire topic but the things described on the first page got me thinking...
I play a free game called America's Army. And basically if someone teamkills you you have the option of kicking him out or letting him stay. Usually you'll know if someone did it on purpose or not.

Question is where do you... like give someone the option of kicking somebody? In a FPS it's pretty clear when a bullet hits you or not etc and that you're not supposed to shoot at teammates. However a little bit of contact is part of the game in GT5.

And who hits who and stuff like that might be unclear as well. So I don't know.

I don't know much about programming so I don't know if it's easy or difficult to implement but I suspect difficult. Just throwing it in there though.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

Didn't read the entire topic but the things described on the first page got me thinking...
I play a free game called America's Army. And basically if someone teamkills you you have the option of kicking him out or letting him stay. Usually you'll know if someone did it on purpose or not.

Question is where do you... like give someone the option of kicking somebody? In a FPS it's pretty clear when a bullet hits you or not etc and that you're not supposed to shoot at teammates. However a little bit of contact is part of the game in GT5.

And who hits who and stuff like that might be unclear as well. So I don't know.

I don't know much about programming so I don't know if it's easy or difficult to implement but I suspect difficult. Just throwing it in there though.

Turn 1 mid pack is especially hard to tell who's doing what, but I expect a bit of light contact and bumping there. 👍

One on one it's a little less ambiguous when you get punted into kitty litter, though. And much less excusable in a true "clean" room.

 

[pjs123456789]

In my limited online experience I personal didn't try to be dirty but I know I may have created some havoc. Example I used to enjoy racing on daytona, my car usually was the viper acr max out I would draft the guys on the straight, when entering the corners I took the inside, at this point my car is going too fast to hold to the inside of the corner even though I have the steering lock to the left so it slowly understeers to the right. I didn't mean for it to happen but I had no control over that so I came across as a dirty driver. I heard the guys in the background complain. I got kicked from many rooms maybe for the same reason.

 

[S130south]

I'm a newbie trying to keep it clean but seem to end up getting shunted more than anyone due to braking early and being rear ended and being accused of brake testing them or when i give another racer room on the inside if he's won the corner end up with him smashing me into the wall on the outside! thanks very much!

 

[theRealMeyer]

I'm a newbie trying to keep it clean but seem to end up getting shunted more than anyone due to braking early and being rear ended and being accused of brake testing them or when i give another racer room on the inside if he's won the corner end up with him smashing me into the wall on the outside! thanks very much!

This.
I guess we'll have to learn it the hard way...

 

[S130south]

I know, had a great few races couple of days ago, good and clean with passes being made every few corners for about 3 laps then last night behind someone who thought defencive driving ment snaking down the straight then spinning you at the end if you managed to get past. Sorry just venting!

 

[Sohvakettu]

Sounds like one of those days.

The experience in online can wary a great deal and sometimes it's purely down to luck if you can find a decent room. Generally I feel that rooms with some sort of tire limit tend to be better than rooms without tire limits though even that isn't a sure fire method. Sometimes it's only one rude person that spoils the entire room and things get suddenly better when he isn't around anymore.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

Well as I keep saying the best solution is to not have a knee-jerk reaction and to separate "newbies" or those of lower skill with those who are obviously disregarding any kind of decency in racing.

I wouldn't kick a newbie from my room but I might warn him/her. In my experience you save yourself the flames of other drivers if you don't put yourself in those situations in the first place.

In a true "clean" racing room you should a.) not attempt dangerous passes by shoving your nose up the inside. b.) brake early, look ahead to the coming up corner and judge how many cars are entering the corner before you. You can't use your same braking points when someone else is there in front of you. c.) if you lock up the brakes or brake too late, if at all possible, go off the track rather than ruin someone else's race. Especially since it's a game and you don't really get anything out of winning. It seems to me better to be a decent person than a selfish one, taking others out with you. d.) in general, just practice and be cognizant of everyone around you. Don't go full speed in a large pack through corners, you'll slide out and a bunch of people will go spinning.

Oh, and finally, apologize after the race if you do cause an issue that was truly an accident. It usually puts out the flames.

It may seem daunting at first but the more you race the easier it gets. It's okay to lose for a while to learn how to win properly.

 

[qwietstorm]

In the racing community that I'm apart of, if we make contact that ruins someone's race, we stop and give the position back. Even if it means we were racing for the lead on the final lap final turn and I take someone out...I stop, let them get back in front of me and we finish the race. If we end up finishing 7th and 8th then so be it. I apologize and we move on. But you DO NOT continue racing after making contact and putting someone in the kitty litter, the wall or out of the race.

If I'm wrecked and the person stops and waits for me, I am not bothered at all. But 9 times out of 10 if they make contact and try to get away, I WILL run them down and finish them off.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

In the racing community that I'm apart of, if we make contact that ruins someone's race, we stop and give the position back. Even if it means we were racing for the lead on the final lap final turn and I take someone out...I stop, let them get back in front of me and we finish the race. If we end up finishing 7th and 8th then so be it. I apologize and we move on. But you DO NOT continue racing after making contact and putting someone in the kitty litter, the wall or out of the race.

If I'm wrecked and the person stops and waits for me, I am not bothered at all. But 9 times out of 10 if they make contact and try to get away, I WILL run them down and finish them off.

Same here. The series I've run with are very particular about contact and "stealing" the position this way is considered inexcusably rude. Even with people who may not go by the same rules in random rooms, if I give them a little hit I give them back the spot. Whether or not they acknowledge it I feel like I did the right thing. Couple that with an apology and you can dissipate the hate.

 

[Brend]

The problem is that "clean" can be over-exaggerated. I've bumped and grinded with a drivers before and then if he ends up crashing out (by his own mistake) i'm suddenly to blame. I agree racing should be clean but there's nothing wrong with a hit or 2 during the race! "Racing Incidents" are possible.

 

[Tower Turn 13]

The problem is that "clean" can be over-exaggerated. I've bumped and grinded with a drivers before and then if he ends up crashing out (by his own mistake) i'm suddenly to blame. I agree racing should be clean but there's nothing wrong with a hit or 2 during the race! "Racing Incidents" are possible.

Yep, covered. I and others definitely agree with you that racing isn't croquet. Some unintentional small contact is fine. Racing incidents are minimized by reducing stupid aggression (not planning out the upcoming corner, judging if you actually have the pass or should wait).