Does GT Sport Represent a Generational Leap Over GT6?

[eran0004]

"for the most part GT Sport stays at 60 fps at the same resolution. The only exception to this is during scenes with multiple cars on screen"

Comedy Gold right there Ladies and Gentlemen, The only exception being "DURING A RACE" "IN A RACING GAME"

Well, it is a racing game so of course most issues will occur during races. What did you expect?

 

[ghostrider135]

Well, it is a racing game so of course most issues will occur during races. What did you expect?

It was sarcastic point I was making about it staying at 60 fps when clearly it doesn't based on the remark I made.

 

[sems4arsenal]

It was sarcastic point I was making about it staying at 60 fps when clearly it doesn't based on the remark I made.

The performance is currently good enough. I'd love that they'd aim for a locked 60 fps (they still might) but the occasional drop to mid 50s is hardly bad performance especially for a beta.

 

[Ameer67]

Plus, that fps drop occurs only during the start of the race according to the Digital Foundry video.

 

[TS050]

"for the most part GT Sport stays at 60 fps at the same resolution. The only exception to this is during scenes with multiple cars on screen"

Comedy Gold right there Ladies and Gentlemen, The only exception being "DURING A RACE" "IN A RACING GAME"

someone clearly didn't watch the video lmao

 

[Speedster911]

"for the most part GT Sport stays at 60 fps at the same resolution. The only exception to this is during scenes with multiple cars on screen"

Comedy Gold right there Ladies and Gentlemen, The only exception being "DURING A RACE" "IN A RACING GAME"

It's really disappointing to know this. The PS4 Pro is more than capable of keeping the game running steadily at 60 fps. Besides, if they can't keep it steady "during a race", how are they going to implement hi-fidelity and detail-rich sound for multiple cars on grid without the game coughing and hiccuping all over the place?

 

[ArR29]

It's really disappointing to know this. The PS4 Pro is more than capable of keeping the game running steadily at 60 fps. Besides, if they can't keep it steady "during a race", how are they going to implement hi-fidelity and detail-rich sound for multiple cars on grid without the game coughing and hiccuping all over the place?

What games on PS4 PRO running at locked 60fps with high quality assets anyway? Most games I've seen struggle to keep the framerate at 60fps.

 

[Speedster911]

What games on PS4 PRO running at locked 60fps with high quality assets anyway? Most games I've seen struggle to keep the framerate at 60fps.

Well, that's a shame then. In this day and age, developers should not be struggling to maintain 60 fps. They ought to either work on better optimizations or not make hardware with bottlenecks.

When you say high quality assets, do you mean all bells and whistles at 4k?

 

[TS050]

Considering the game is still in beta, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Gazronicus]

During the start of the races is what the article/video were referring to.

There is no mention of the wording during the start of the races

 

[Vspectra]

This is actually pretty good performance for beta code considering it only dips when all of the cars are bunched up together. Most of the optimization and polish work will come in this very last stretch of development until release day, so I'm pretty confident they'll sort out the framerate drops given this is only a beta. We've already seen them polish the game up quite a bit between the beta updates.

 

[ArR29]

Well, that's a shame then. In this day and age, developers should not be struggling to maintain 60 fps. They ought to either work on better optimizations or not make hardware with bottlenecks.

When you say high quality assets, do you mean all bells and whistles at 4k?

PS4 PRO isn't powerful as people making it out to be. It still equivalent to a mid range PC.

Yes, I'm talking about high quality at 4k resolution.

 

[Parker]

"for the most part GT Sport stays at 60 fps at the same resolution. The only exception to this is during scenes with multiple cars on screen"

Comedy Gold right there Ladies and Gentlemen, The only exception being "DURING A RACE" "IN A RACING GAME"

Obviously the game isn't perfect, however, it seems the only time it fails to deliver 60fps is at the beginning of a race, a standing start, in the middle of a pack with multiple cars in front of you. Obviously, this isn't ideal but in all the racing games I've played I have found that it is extremely rare for cars to stay bunched together like that during the actual race.

Hopefully this is improved in the final release but it is far from gamebreaking.

 

[Imari]

Well, it is a racing game so of course most issues will occur during races. What did you expect?

A stable frame rate during the most important part of the experience? Gedouddahere.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well, that's a shame then. In this day and age, developers should not be struggling to maintain 60 fps. They ought to either work on better optimizations or not make hardware with bottlenecks.

When you say high quality assets, do you mean all bells and whistles at 4k?

4K is very taxing. The fact the pro can run something as good looking as GTSport at 4K/60FPS * is commendable.

*checkerboard not native but even DF say checkerboard has little to no difference to native 4k.

 

[Imari]

*checkerboard not native but even DF say checkerboard has little to no difference to native 4k.

Really? Where do they say that? Functionally there's a fairly large difference. In a real gaming situation possibly the difference is smaller, but I can't imagine what caveats they'd have to attach to get to no difference to native 4K.

That would be like saying that the scaled image in GT6 had little to no difference to native 1080p. In many situations, the differences weren't large, but they certainly existed.

It seems at odds with what they've said elsewhere too.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-4k-gaming-what-can-pc-learn-from-ps4-pro

Of course, there is an element of smoke and mirrors here. A lot of PS4 Pro's 4K rendering techniques don't actually resolve a full native ultra HD framebuffer, and yes, there is a resultant cost in terms of the quality of the presentation. The question is the extent to which you'll notice the downgrade in real world conditions. Stack up a native 1800p image up against a full 4K framebuffer on an ultra HD screen and the difference should be obvious. Certainly, when you look at the zoomer images on this page, the softness on the lower resolution image is apparent, though perhaps not as much as it should be. However, whether we're talking about 27-inch or 32-inch PC monitors, or large living room UHD TVs at normal viewing distances, the extreme pixel density of the displays makes the difference much more subtle in real world conditions.

TLDR; there's an obvious difference but it's not as stark as you might expect in real world use cases. That's not quite "little to no difference".

 

[eran0004]

It was sarcastic point I was making about it staying at 60 fps when clearly it doesn't based on the remark I made.

Except your remark isn't correct. The frame rate doesn't drop "during a race", it drops "during starts", when there are many cars near you on the screen. For most time of a race you won't have a dozen cars near you on the screen at the same time, you might have 1-5 cars, depending on the race length and the skill level of the players.

Technically the start is during a race, but so is most of the game and that is why your remark is silly. Most issues in most racing games occur during races, just as most issues in most flight simulators occur during flight, or most issues in a chess game occur during a game of chess. Seriously, what else did you expect?

 

[Imari]

Seriously, what else did you expect?

Is this a trick question? I'm gonna say "A locked 60fps". Do I win a prize?

Also, I hate to be the one to point this out but I think your sense of humour is broken. Is it still under warranty?

 

[eran0004]

Is this a trick question? I'm gonna say "A locked 60fps". Do I win a prize?

Also, I hate to be the one to point this out but I think your sense of humour is broken. Is it still under warranty?

Sorry, although the prize committee operates on a non-profit basis, a small application fee is required to cover the expenses related to the evaluation of such submissions. When the payment has been made we will look into the matter and then get back to you hastily.

My sense of humour is fine. Warranty is valid until December 2022.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Really? Where do they say that? Functionally there's a fairly large difference. In a real gaming situation possibly the difference is smaller, but I can't imagine what caveats they'd have to attach to get to no difference to native 4K.

That would be like saying that the scaled image in GT6 had little to no difference to native 1080p. In many situations, the differences weren't large, but they certainly existed.

It seems at odds with what they've said elsewhere too.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-4k-gaming-what-can-pc-learn-from-ps4-pro



TLDR; there's an obvious difference but it's not as stark as you might expect in real world use cases. That's not quite "little to no difference".

I'll try to recall where it was but one of the guys from DF posted on GAF about how you really need to have a huge TV and be very very close to even begin to see whatever difference there is.

Edit: It was the thread about your article so that was helpful

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=238257330&postcount=24

 

[owoc12]

i think that pd shouldnt have made trailers from a pre alpha builds that looked really bad and making this beta public because its showing this game in a bad light and many people will not even check it after release because they will think that the bad points of what they have seen in trailers and videos from beta are still the same. For example:

and it ends up like that

 

[Northstar]

i think that pd shouldnt have made trailers from a pre alpha builds that looked really bad and making this beta public because its showing this game in a bad light and many people will not even check it after release because they will think that the bad points of what they have seen in trailers and videos from beta are still the same. For example:

I don't know that I'd really base anything off of what trolls on Youtube say considering they probably never planned on getting the game in the first place.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Obviously the game isn't perfect, however, it seems the only time it fails to deliver 60fps is at the beginning of a race, a standing start, in the middle of a pack with multiple cars in front of you. Obviously, this isn't ideal but in all the racing games I've played I have found that it is extremely rare for cars to stay bunched together like that during the actual race.

Hopefully this is improved in the final release but it is far from gamebreaking.

Ahh but don't forget, when the game launches you are going to have tens of thousands of people playing, developing driver ratings and the ranked races will likely contain entire fields of drivers who are quite similar in skill. The whole intent of a game like GTS is to develop very close and exciting racing. While I doubt you'll have 16 car packs for entire races, it should be quite possible to have very large packs together for extended periods until the inevitable bumping and grinding or mistakes shuffle the order a bit. You'd also expect in the more organized FIA sanctioned races, the competition is going to be very tight and the drivers more highly skilled, leading to larger packs of drivers for longer periods of time.

 

[Speedster911]

PS4 PRO isn't powerful as people making it out to be. It still equivalent to a mid range PC.

Yes, I'm talking about high quality at 4k resolution.

Ah? I thought the X-One was the equivalent of a mid-range PC. By 2013/2014 standards anyway.

 

[sems4arsenal]

i think that pd shouldnt have made trailers from a pre alpha builds that looked really bad and making this beta public because its showing this game in a bad light and many people will not even check it after release because they will think that the bad points of what they have seen in trailers and videos from beta are still the same. For example:
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and it ends up like that
View attachment 651286
View attachment 651287
View attachment 651288

Yeah that extra year of development really showed some huge leaps. No idea how they set 2016 as a realistic release date.

 

[Parker]

Ahh but don't forget, when the game launches you are going to have tens of thousands of people playing, developing driver ratings and the ranked races will likely contain entire fields of drivers who are quite similar in skill. The whole intent of a game like GTS is to develop very close and exciting racing. While I doubt you'll have 16 car packs for entire races, it should be quite possible to have very large packs together for extended periods until the inevitable bumping and grinding or mistakes shuffle the order a bit. You'd also expect in the more organized FIA sanctioned races, the competition is going to be very tight and the drivers more highly skilled, leading to larger packs of drivers for longer periods of time.

That is a good point, but I doubt even with very evenly matched drivers there will be big enough packs during races to cause FPS drops. Hopefully PD can work out the issue in the beta and we have a rock steady 60fps for the full launch.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That is a good point, but I doubt even with very evenly matched drivers there will be big enough packs during races to cause FPS drops. Hopefully PD can work out the issue in the beta and we have a rock steady 60fps for the full launch.

Rolling starts might just solve three problems at once. Frame rate issues at the start, reducing first few corners clown show and eliminating drivetrain advantages at the start. Could be the single greatest improvement to this game yet.

 

[Donnced]

PS4 PRO isn't powerful as people making it out to be. It still equivalent to a mid range PC.

Yes, I'm talking about high quality at 4k resolution.

Why is everyone talking about "4K" meanwhile only a few games achieve 2160p (4K native) on the PS4 Pro?

I remind that GT Sport, just like a lot of AAA games run at 1800p checkerboard (900p + 900p upscaled to "2160p)

It's like PS3 and games like GT5 or 6 that didn't even achieved full 1080p...

For me GT Sport is only a relative generation leap in graphics details...

But in physics side... I really don't find it a generation leap...

And even in graphics it can be discussed after practical 4 years of development...

PS3 got 512Mb shared memory between graphic card and Ram..

And in GT SPORT we still see bad shadows, jaguis,flickering,2D trees...
And they took away dynamic climate change and dynamic Day-night cycle...
Also not even the full game achieved to be in VR and in traffic and starts it hasn't solid framerate in standard PS4, as it hasn't in PS4 Pro on 1800p..

Maybe it's me that expected more from GT on PS4..

 

[Speedster911]

Maybe it's me that expected more from GT on PS4..

I think this kind of sums up well why GT stagnated over the years - copies kept being sold and fans were generally happy playing it because of the visuals, car collection, track roster etc. And as long as the game sold well, the developers continued to sit on their hands, making only very minor updates to newer version. My guess is PD kind of figured "okay, they are happy with this, so why break our backs refining physics and sound, right?"

And unfortunately, the "meat" of the game hasn't progressed all that much since then.

 

[CodeCmdr]

I think this kind of sums up well why GT stagnated over the years - copies kept being sold and fans were generally happy playing it because of the visuals, car collection, track roster etc. And as long as the game sold well, the developers continued to sit on their hands, making only very minor updates to newer version. My guess is PD kind of figured "okay, they are happy with this, so why break our backs refining physics and sound, right?"

And unfortunately, the "meat" of the game hasn't progressed all that much since then.

True. But they have to get off their a**es, because in the last couple of years, lots of very strong competitors entered the market: Forza Motorsports, Project Cars, Asseto Corsa, Dirt Rally. (I have no idea why the hell PD is working on a rally driving mode and forcefully making it a part of the core GT experience. Has anyone asked for that? But that's probably a topic for another thread).

I think PD's only chance of being successful in the current and upcoming market is by making online competitive racing really good, because that's a really cool feature that currently only iRacing has to offer on the PC platform. However, Project Cars 2 is also going to have an improved online racing mode, and if that game pulls it off well, GTS will have a tough time objectively differentiating itself - PD and Sony will have to do rely good marketing to sell well, rather than product quality. They probably have a killer marketing budget with which they can push away Project Cars 2.