Does the anticipation of the next update demonstrate overall dissapointment in GT5?

[robbo6]

This is true, but unfortunately, there's a catch: casual players are by far the majority of gamers, so that's where the big money is. There is a small, dedicated hardcore sim crowd, that is willing to shell out serious cash, but those are into more dedicated and serious platforms, like iRacing. I am really curious how GT5/6/7 is going to address that, because right now, it's alienating both the casual gamer and the hardcore sim enthusiast.

That makes me wonder where it is heading and how they're going to make it commercially viable. A subscription model like iRacing maybe? A free or really cheap base version and lots of paid extras (PD/Sony actually hinted at that last option)?

Actually in thinking about pianomans comments I actually think GT5 is more aimed at the casual player. Short races and Ai that is not much of a challenge at all because it cannot be adjusted and hence has to be beatable by the casuals. Also one of the core groups happy with the game are those who just "hop in" to their favourite car and hotlap on their own...that sounds about as "casual" as you can get IMO. But then you get the schism with the game where it tries to artifically create "diffculty"...i.e. ridiculouly long enduros (with no saving) and always starting last in the seasonals.

 

[trk29]

But then you get the schism with the game where it tries to artifically create "diffculty"...i.e. ridiculouly long enduros (with no saving) and always starting last in the seasonals.

^This

Why would someone want to play a race for a complete 24hrs without turning their system off? It doesn't happen in real life without a team of drivers so there should be a way of saving, and for this to get missed is simply someone not paying attention to what they are creating.

I apologise for my sentence "go...play Forza3".

And sorry for the rude comment but everytime someone says this while people are having debate just makes me want to smack'em
I don't have a 360 and don't plan on buying one. I want to play GT5 but I want some things to be like they are supposed to be.

GT5 obviously meets your requirements for a good game, fair enough. But why is it that those (like me) where it doesn't meet our requirements get a bit of a slagging?

It's not as if we're all troll complaining i.e. "GT5 Sucks", "GT5 is ****". Almost all complaint threads say EXACTLY what is wrong with the game to a very fine detail. This is what "constructive criticism" is all about.

And most complaints are about things that if sorted can ONLY IMPROVE the game! So why are so many so vehemently against complaining?!! And the one thing that ties all the complainers together is this:

WE ALL WANT GT5 TO BE BETTER THAN IT CURRENTLY IS.

WHY is that such a bad thing??!!

edit, post not specifically aimed at Pianoman, more at all those defending GT5.

^This right here is what everybody don't understand when they see someone that is unhappy with the game. If everyone read this that supports GT5 in all its glory and took the time to process it then they would understand. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but don't try not to change our minds. This is not directed at Pianoman just to everyone in general that can't keep it together when we talk about GT.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Actually in thinking about pianomans comments I actually think GT5 is more aimed at the casual player. Short races and Ai that is not much of a challenge at all because it cannot be adjusted and hence has to be beatable by the casuals. Also one of the core groups happy with the game are those who just "hop in" to their favourite car and hotlap on their own...that sounds about as "casual" as you can get IMO. But then you get the schism with the game where it tries to artifically create "diffculty"...i.e. ridiculouly long enduros (with no saving) and always starting last in the seasonals.

And that's exactly my point: some of the games that are considered 'arcade' by the GT5-fanboys have implemented a lot of simulation features a lot better than GT5, so just where does this put GT5 exactly? It needs to step up if it wants to be a real simulator. A good thing is that I think it doesn't need a whole lot of adjustments to do that, just a few features added and the UI cleaned up a bit.

BTW, why does everybody consider 'Go play Forza 3' or 'Go play Shift 2' an insult? I actually play both Shift 2 and GT5 and both are very good, but in different areas, and yes: both can be called simulators, but in different ways. I'm sure the same applies to Forza 2/3/4/etc. Just because a developer made the game accessible, doesn't mean it's an arcade game. But the majority over here seems to think that a game should be painstakingly hard and boring, or it's not a proper sim, which is complete nonsense.

 

[Pianoman]

This is true, but unfortunately, there's a catch: casual players are by far the majority of gamers, so that's where the big money is. There is a small, dedicated hardcore sim crowd, that is willing to shell out serious cash, but those are into more dedicated and serious platforms, like iRacing. I am really curious how GT5/6/7 is going to address that, because right now, it's alienating both the casual gamer and the hardcore sim enthusiast.

That makes me wonder where it is heading and how they're going to make it commercially viable. A subscription model like iRacing maybe? A free or really cheap base version and lots of paid extras (PD/Sony actually hinted at that last option)?

Completely agree with your comments. This is also my question (money vs vision). I think that subscription model is "no go" for GT platform. I hope that even in very difficult times the GT5 vision will be balanced good enough for both sides of the story. Cheers!

 

[trk29]

BTW, why does everybody consider 'Go play Forza 3' or 'Go play Shift 2' an insult?

Because we are not here talking about Forza. It seems like when someone is unhappy about this game and they make a comment about it some peoples retaliation (for whatever reason) is to say just that. They might as well tell people to go bake some cookies....Whats the point?

 

[ICEMAN_ZIDANE]

Wah wah wah... go play Online you'll never be bored. The game is what it is... they spent more time in certain parts than others..... and that's the way it works. and some of you statements are complete BS.... the Game is fine, and will only get better.

PS im tired of all this BS 6 years development time when they also created a PSP game and a prologue. And the expectectations of different cars in the standards... they didn't remodel standards... they imported them from the other games so of course your gunna get multiples... Gtfunkout witht that bull.

Exactly what i wanted to say
I don't know any Game which has so much Details like GT 5
Cars look exactly like in real life (P. Cars) , Tracks too ...

This is a Simulation and it's normal that some guys get bored because maybe they just want to have fun and drive with 300 through a corner like in NFS ... I don't know

Iam playing racing games more then 10 years and really all of my Friends who are playing racing (Arcade) games just for Fun got bored with gt 5

And my friends tried to play iRacing , LFS ... too but they got bored ..
Are there any differences between gt 5 and a other SIM ? I don't think so

I don't know how a ! Sim ! could be better then GT 5 ( i don't say you will have much Fun i just say its a perfect Sim for real racing fans )

Ps: the GT Planet iPhone app is really nice thanks for that

 

[Big Ron]

And that's exactly my point: some of the games that are considered 'arcade' by the GT5-fanboys have implemented a lot of simulation features a lot better than GT5, so just where does this put GT5 exactly?

This is the fact, why GT is called "the real driving simulator". Driving a car is as good as you can get it on console...the best so far.

In every other part, GT5 lacks as hell to be a simulator....and that´s why many are disappointed.

You have no intense racing, no all around racing atmosphere, no real world rules etc. Features are started at some points, but stoped too early to be finished and fun-promoting

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

We gotta remember that PD isn't exactly a huge company with a big budget like Turn 10 and Microsoft. If I remember correctly, PS3 was actually causing Sony debt right at the beginning.

This GT5 is actually a really weird sequel in the series. One in which hits all of the key selling points that we all love as GT fans, but then it doesn't exactly sell them 100%. It's like they touch these points just enough to say "we got this" and then moved on to the next thing... but with such a hectic schedule I bet this is all they could do to appease the Sony execs that call the shots.

I think at this point, all eyes and ears are focused on the development of GT6. GT5 is more of a launching pad for things to come in the future. I bet when GT6 Prologue pops out sometime in the future, it will probably look and feel a lot like GT5 but with that recaptured prestige that GT games used to have. It'll be refined, updated, and expanded on properly. PD has never dealt with features GT5 has, so it is a little unrealistic to have had such high expectations. BUT GT6 will definitely be a whole nother story.

 

[Sohvakettu]

But GT5 was produced for a long time and it had a big budget...

 

[Zuku]

If focus has already shifted from GT5 to GT6 so fast that may alienate some gamers. It's like one of those games where you realize I paid $50-100 and it wasn't even worth time PD would be wise to tell us that the development of GT6 is a little far way like maybe another 4 years away, and that they will make sure GT5 has a lot of support.

I don't know if GT5 was aimed at just casual players Kaz has said before if I'm not mistake that he wants to unite casual and hardcore under one roof.

 

[TwIsTeD_83]

Does the anticipation of the next update demonstrate overall dissapointment in GT5?

Answer:No
People are waiting for the promised update for this unique game just like other gamers wait for the updates on their games.

People who are dissapointed will have likely moved on to other games.

People who are dissapointed and still crying here...
It's a pathological thing

GT is one of a kind thats why we love it guys

 

[zanxion]

Correct mate!

 

[JDMKING13]

Does the anticipation of the next update demonstrate overall dissapointment in GT5?

Answer:No
People are waiting for the promised update for this unique game just like other gamers wait for the updates on their games.

People who are dissapointed will have likely moved on to other games.

People who are dissapointed and still crying here...
It's a pathological thing

GT is one of a kind thats why we love it guys

That's why I did not like the op thread topic to me it's like he trying to set GT5 up for failure. Just as you said what gamer is not excited about new content when it comes to their favorite game. I remember when Forza3 dropped it had more bugs than a rain forest but as time pasted the game got better and better with DLC . I'm annoyed when people are saying GT5 is a step back from the other series of GT, this is by far the best GT in my opinion. It is also another monster and that's what I'm seeing people are miss understanding. This is a whole different GT and some people need more time to warm up to it. The game has been out for 6 months guys + with the disaster, being fans of the series I think we should wait to see how PD can polish this game up instead of wanting GT6 to drop.

 

[Tornado]

We gotta remember that PD isn't exactly a huge company with a big budget like Turn 10 and Microsoft. If I remember correctly, PS3 was actually causing Sony debt right at the beginning.

Regardless of whether or not the gaming division of Sony was losing them money, GT5 was basically given an unlimited budget and development time to put together, until (apparently) Sony just got fed up with Kaz and forced PD to release the game.

This is a Simulation and it's normal that some guys get bored because maybe they just want to have fun and drive with 300 through a corner like in NFS ... I don't know

For this to actually be a valid argument (and even then it would be a stretch to call it that, because you are basically saying "stop doing it wrong"), GT5 would need to be a truly hardcore sim. And as it is, it doesn't do the sim parts of the equation nearly well enough for it to be used to excuse for why the game part is lacking.

This is a whole different GT and some people need more time to warm up to it.

If PD wanted to use GT5 as a dumping ground for making major functional/conceptual changes to the series (which is what it appears PD did), they need to do it well, the changes need to be for the better and they need to justify them. Otherwise, any criticism that they get for the changes is completely deserved.

 

[maxpontiac]

When I read threads like this (I didn't read all of it, just the OP and skimmed the rest) I have to sit back and somewhat chuckle for the OP and several posts thereafter belongs in that mighty EMO thread.

On one hand, you have the same argument that's been made on this site for six months, while on the other hand, threads like this prove how much attention (good/bad) the GT franchise attracts.

Anyways, GT5 has been out for six months now, so of course people are ready for an update. It has nothing to do with "disappointment" of the original release at all. People are ready for DLC and willing to pay for it on nearly every game out there, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[Lucas]

I can respect your opinion but I don't agree with them. I will say it again GT5 is not a step back. Lets talk about the online aspect of the game which I didn't see you mention anything about. I have played GT5 for about 4 months in total, and with the online gameplay this game has giving me a better time than GT4 which we have played for countless years. I don't want to go off topic but I will say that GT5 has been out for about 6 months, and I read your gripes about the game. With the opportunity we have with DLC I'm sure GT5 will polish.

Indeed I did not mention the online aspect for a very simple reason, which is that I can't have online access with my PS3. Definitely, that doesn't mean that I should blame the game when DLC is available. However, it would have been much better if these things that should have been thought before the game was released had come with the game when it first shipped. Thinking about it, it probably makes sense that the offline aspect wasn't so developed, with online gameplay in mind. Still, I believe PD should have done a better job with it. I hope DLC fixes the things people dislike, and hopefully one day I will be able to play online an access the updates. 👍

 

[R34EVO9]

I dont know what going to happen to the gt series because with games like nfs shift witch seem to be getting better each year and lets not bring forza into this....

Unless were going to be seeing a gt6 next november which would be the full gt5 i think pd should just give us alotta dlc free or not...

The game has lost it spark with me alot after gt academy usa because i couldnt deal with the lack of ppl to race with online that was up gtplanet race standards and when psn crashed that made it all worst cause now everyone just plays black ops...

 

[ALP1986]

well this thread went wild fast lol.

looks like an interesting 50/50 split.

 

[topban82]

I would agree on most of your comment but I can just say something if PD don't do something about it they will be over taken by shift 2, dirt 3 (yes I know it's a rally game) and mabay even F1 2010 so if PD dont bring out a BIG update they are going to loose lots of fans (probably not me ) so PD see this thread before doing some thing stupid AGIAN

 

[ALP1986]

I would agree on most of your comment but I can just say something if PD don't do something about it they will be over taken by shift 2, dirt 3 (yes I know it's a rally game) and mabay even F1 2010 so if PD dont bring out a BIG update they are going to loose lots of fans (probably not me ) so PD see this thread before doing some thing stupid AGIAN

yeah i agree.

really hoping for more tracks. got my chrome paint today lol

 

[topban82]

yeah i agree.

really hoping for more tracks. got my chrome paint today lol

Cool I had a 2 silver chromes hope they put more chromes in GT5 lol

 

[Digitool]

Just because a developer made the game accessible, doesn't mean it's an arcade game. But the majority over here seems to think that a game should be painstakingly hard and boring, or it's not a proper sim, which is complete nonsense.

Lets break it down.

A simulation is a "close as possible" re-creation of what it is simulating.

Simulations aren't created to be accessible, that is what an arcade game is, for the most part. So those who don't want to be bothered with the necissary figuring and tinkering and nonsense of that sort, go to the arcade games.

Lets put it this way. Simulations are made to be realistic, so to say that you can have an "accessible" simulation is like saying that you think racing is something anyone can jump in and do.

Racing isn't easy, setting up a vehicle isn't easy. So a simulation game isn't going to make it easy. It's going to try to make it as realistic and close to life as possible.

Thats just my opinion and why I say shift 2 is not a simulation.

 

[PhillGuy]

Personally I am not too worried about it. I have gotten more there my fair share on enojyment out of it.

We also have to look forward to GT 6. Remember the jump of quality from gt3 to gt4. Let hope this happen again.

As far as DLc or a new patch, who cares.

 

[analog]

Does the anticipation of the next update demonstrate overall dissapointment in GT5?
I guess it does although even if GT5 were a perfect game (which it isn't) with enough content (which it hasn't) people (probably including me) would still crave for more after a while, especially since most of the updates we've until now received were designed to patch existing issues and new ideas like the seasonal events quickly evolved into extending the offline A-spec mode which shows to me PD acknowkledges (or at least being forced to acknowledge) the content of the game is limited.

As much as some claim GT5 is just a stepping stone for the next generation of GT-games, that wasn't what was promised, (selectively) showed or probably even intended by PD themselves for years.
Most expected a complete and polished game, full current gen content and possibilities (not next gen and previous gen assets combined) with online being a given in this day and age (and not a feature which excuses lack of content or being the sole new element which elevates it from previous GT-games, which ofcourse it does but that's not due to PD inventing it).

I do however thoroughly enjoy playing GT5 though despite it being a different game than I expected for years and will probably still be playing it for quite a while but the days I put PD on a pedestal and desperately tried to understand why they implemented something a certain way are firmly behind me.
GT5 is an enjoyable and fun cock up, a recepy which didn't exactly turn out the way it was supposed to but still quite tasty, now bring on the side dishes please and some beverages to wash it down with but don't expect a big tip.

 

[Zuku]

analog

As much as some claim GT5 is just a stepping stone for the next generation of GT-games, that wasn't what was promised, (selectively) showed or probably even intended by PD themselves for years.
Most expected a complete and polished game, full current gen content and possibilities (not next gen and previous gen assets combined) with online being a given in this day and age (and not a feature which excuses lack of content or being the sole new element which elevates it from previous GT-games, which ofcourse it does but that's not due to PD inventing it).

I may be bashed to hell and back for this, but I think PD should have left online alone until GT6. Honestly I wished they had focused more on the single player cause it seems very underwhelming. It took me upwards to 1 year to even reach 75% completion on GT I still never finished it, but that's only cause my patience for the Endurance races were thin.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Simulations aren't created to be accessible, that is what an arcade game is, for the most part. So those who don't want to be bothered with the necissary figuring and tinkering and nonsense of that sort, go to the arcade games.

Racing isn't easy, setting up a vehicle isn't easy. So a simulation game isn't going to make it easy. It's going to try to make it as realistic and close to life as possible.

Then by your own logic, Shift 2 is a better simulation than GT5, since GT5 has simplified upgrades, simplified tuning abilities, simplified telemetry and less numbers. Setting up and tuning a car is done with proper tools, not by trial-and-error (tyre temperatures to set the camber, brake temperatures to set brake pressure and balance, etc.) and good luck (having to guess the suspension travel under load). Give us those and GT5 will be the better sim. 👍

I may be bashed to hell and back for this, but I think PD should have left online alone until GT6. Honestly I wished they had focused more on the single player cause it seems very underwhelming. It took me upwards to 1 year to even reach 75% completion on GT I still never finished it, but that's only cause my patience for the Endurance races were thin.

I wish PD would have focused on any part (whether that be online or offline can be debated), instead of trying to do it all.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

As far as DLc or a new patch, who cares.

I certainly do and so do a large majority of people. As long as this game a lot of us paid big money for still lacks promised features, the next patch always matters.

 

[Digitool]

If you want my answer as to which is a better sim i give you forza (strictly consoles here)

I don't see much in the way of simulation when i'm racing in shift 2, however when i'm racing in gran turismo i feel that there are physics involved and that its trying to be realistic..

shift 2 has "wow factor" things thrown in that aren't realistic or an attempt to be realistic, so I cannot give it the title of sim.

the handling characteristics and grip physics are the most horrible in any sim (if you're so willing to put it in that category)

but like i said to each their own, and shift 2 in my opinion is not a sim and just wasn't fun for me. I gave it to my room mate, and he loves it, so at least someones enjoying it. But he doesn't enjoy sims because they're too involved to tune, he likes to jump in and race with some whiz-bang effects and flair.

 

[benda18]

At this point I'be given up most hope for not only this game but for the series as well. I have a few convoluted thoughts that i'll bullet point:

*GT was one of the franchises that kept me coming back to Sony. No more.
*There are numerous things Pd could do to improve GT5 but for me its probably too late.
*I probably won't pick up GT6 regardless of its quality upon release.
*I'm very close to buying a ps2 and a copy of GT4 (to replace that which I sold on eBay in December).

 

[Zuku]

@ benda18

I'd advise you to never sell games it's moments like these that remind you as to why you never should.

On that note I'm still ticked at myself for selling away my copy of Medal of Honor Frontline yeah it's crappy compared to Modern Warfare and your battlefield games today, but you know it still had some of the best music and great levels. Plus it had a sense that made me feel as I'm there maybe it was seeing those random people in certain levels.

On Topic I don't think you should give up on Sony or PD, but then again if PD doesn't support this game at least to point that it seems finished then I understand.

NLxAROSA

I wish PD would have focused on any part (whether that be online or offline can be debated), instead of trying to do it all.

You make a good point, but to expand on what I was talking about Gran Turismo has never had online gameplay until now basically. My whole thing is they should have either like you said focused on offline then have a huge update to be for online or vice-versa. I think in the end it would have made people a bit happier.