Drivers From a Certain Country...

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by war_ops_84, Apr 6, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. war_ops_84

    war_ops_84

    Messages:
    111
    ...not sure if this has already been covered, but can we agree that, ON AVERAGE, the most aggressive, dirty drivers are represented disproportionately by a certain country? I don't even have to name the country specifically - most people will know which one I'm referring to.

    That isn't to say there aren't respectful, clean drivers from that country, or that there aren't aggressive, dirty drivers from other countries. But how many times does a driver from a certain country have to ruin your race with overly aggressive/dirty driving before you're allowed to identify that country as a source of problems?

    My last race at Willow Springs was ruined on the last lap by one such driver. Drivers behind me saw the incident and agreed that I got screwed. One of the drivers who witnessed the incident said something I have to agree with: Expect it.

    That is unfortunate, as I do not like to prejudge people, but I cannot help it. Every time there is a driver from that country behind me, I am more stressed than normal. And it's purely based on repeated experiences with drivers from that country. A few incidents here and there can be attributed to random factors, but incidents repeating over and over and over again constitute a pattern.

    And it's not just overtly dirty driving like dive-bombing either. It's very subtle stuff that is clearly intended to put the other driver in precarious positions. For example, very gradually drifting into the other drivers space so as to create a tiny window where the smallest mistake will cause the driver to fly off the track or crash.

    One question I have asked myself: Why does a certain country seemingly produce so many of these drivers? Is it cultural? Or am I just imagining things? If I am, then I'm certainly not the only one. And if I am imagining things, then why don't I imagine the same thing with any other country?
     
  2. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    2,984
    Is this the country doing its best in PUBG and resisting Trump's trade tariffs?

    Or is it the country that didnt poison a swapped spy and his daughter in London?
     
  3. TheGeologist

    TheGeologist

    Messages:
    2,080
    Location:
    United States
    Considering we have drivers on this website from all three regions, it is fair to say no one knows what country you are referring to. Posts like this are generally frowned upon by the mods because it is you are being subtly racist.
     
    j_13B, Pfoetiman and Alpha Cipher like this.
  4. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    4,617
    Location:
    Canada
    I was in that race with you and sadly have to agree. The person in question has been on my dirty list for a long time. Still no better.
     
    phil_75 and war_ops_84 like this.
  5. Max_HP

    Max_HP

    Messages:
    87
    Is there a prize for guessing the correct country you're referring to?
     
    Krypton78 likes this.
  6. UnkaD

    UnkaD

    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    United States
    Your reply gives me a little insight into which country this might be, and I can't deny that I have a disproportionate bit of sour history with them as well. There are a few brilliant and fair drivers from there, though. I'll just go ahead and keep my guess to myself.
     
    phil_75 and war_ops_84 like this.
  7. war_ops_84

    war_ops_84

    Messages:
    111
    No, I am not being "racist" at all. National origin/culture is not a race. Please don't throw around inflammatory accusations like that without concrete proof to back them up.

    And what's the point of making distinctions between nations/cultures if we cannot talk about them in generalized terms? As long as we concede that such generalizations are imperfect, which I did, then what's the problem? If someone said, "Americans tend to place more value on gun rights than other countries do." Would that be a "racist" statement? Of course not. So why would it be "racist" to say that drivers from a certain country or culture tend to be more aggressive ON AVERAGE? Answer: It's not.
     
  8. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    2,984
    There's always going to be people who dont have any driving etiquette and treat these things as an arcade challenge.

    If you want to point out say, the Commonwealth countries, the UK Aus, NZ, Can. - obviously there's no defining character trait for these people.

    There is for some certain countries. Think you just have to give these people a wide berth and move on.
     
  9. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    4,617
    Location:
    Canada
    Most try to drive clean as far as I see, yet because of the distance to the server 3 bars is about all they get, and that doesn't work well with notorious late braking and last second dives. Of course there are also some that use that to their full advantage and let the lag do the work...
     
    UnkaD likes this.
  10. phil_75

    phil_75

    Messages:
    2,899
    Location:
    England
    Fernando Alonso is the exception but totally with you.
     
    MikeV27, Phoenixsui, GA 52 and 14 others like this.
  11. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

    Messages:
    1,348
    Maybe its the road rage culture. Meditereanan(cant spell it properly) people are hot headed when it comes to driving.
     
  12. Sofia Speed

    Sofia Speed

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Brazil
    Really???
    Are we generalizing bad driver by country or flag?
     
  13. war_ops_84

    war_ops_84

    Messages:
    111
    I would argue the trait that produces some of the brilliant drivers from that country is the same trait that produces so many dirty drivers: A sort of fearlessness. Whereas the Anglo-Saxon culture of America, Canada, etc., places a lot of emphasis on order and protocol, theirs is more of a relaxed culture.

    I think as long as we acknowledge that such generalizations are imperfect, then it shouldn't be a big deal. I fully admit that this generalization does not apply to all drivers. Some drivers from that country are amazing. But it would be a bit strange to deny that distinct cultures can and do produce distinct behavioral patterns. That's rather the point of a culture, is to emphasize and promote common traits among its members. For example, if I said Brazilian culture tends to emphasize and promote dancing and festivals, would that be offensive to you? Or would it just be an observation of Brazilian culture?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    Tristan Jones and phil_75 like this.
  14. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    4,617
    Location:
    Canada
    It's hard not to generalize when the next race it happens again with a different driver. Not just me, he was bump passing his way through the field. Gave me a 3 sec penalty as well in the final corner before the finish by sticking a nose in.
     
    phil_75 likes this.
  15. KingFrog

    KingFrog (Banned)

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    United States
    He's generalizing a GROUP. It's like saying men tend to be taller than women. As a group this is true. that doesn't mean EVERY MAN is taller than EVERY WOMAN. Don't make an N of one fallacy. From my experience, Brazilian drivers tend to be faster but also more aggressive. This has nothing to do with racism. It might just be the preferred driving style in that region. This is widely accepted to be a fact in soccer. Different regions of the world have different styles. calling this racist is an insult to global diversity in sport. Not every region plays the same AS A GROUP. Now assuming every individual in that group is identical is stupid, and vice versa ( individual represents the entire group).
     
  16. war_ops_84

    war_ops_84

    Messages:
    111
    Yea, it's not like I woke up one day and decided to have it out for drivers from certain countries. It's based on repeated experiences over months of playing. And I am not the only one who feels this way. Far from it.

    And if for some reason this thread is closed (censored) because of people getting offended, that will be very unfortunate. Censoring thoughts and feelings does not magically make them go away. I've always found the best way to deal with things is to be open and honest about how you feel. By discussing this openly, perhaps I can come to a better understanding of why this happens and how to better deal with it. And maybe the drivers on the other side of the equation can become more aware of how they're being perceived. Dialog is generally preferable to silence.

    Well said. My sentiments exactly. And as I noted earlier, I think the cultural trait that creates so many dirty drivers is the same trait that creates so many fast drivers: Fearlessness, aggression, panache. Call it what you will, but it exists.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  17. KainRazielMT

    KainRazielMT

    Messages:
    5
    Ignore people who say you're racist. You made a statement based on observation which involves a specific nation and all they make out of it is that you're "racist". News flash, people: a nation is not a race.

    By the way, which country are we talking about here? If I had to guess I'd say Russia or Poland maybe Italy.

    There is a generalization that black people like KFC. Having spent considerable amount of time around one, I can safely say that most black people indeed only go to KFC when there are multiple fast food restaurants in the area an arm's reach away.
    I made an observation and came up with a statement based on FACT, and this makes me racist? Maybe you should stop being so damn politically correct just because you are too afraid to share your own original opinions even through the internet.
    You people seem to forget that generalizations didn't just come out of thin air. Sure, there are always exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't make it any less true.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    Lord Kacperov, phil_75 and Pfoetiman like this.
  18. Crazy Taylor

    Crazy Taylor

    Messages:
    3,119
    Location:
    England
    Can't totally go all borderline xenophobic now. We're all different. If drivers from a certain country are grinding your gears then you just gotta anticipate their movements, know your enemy and avoid them as much as.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    FranJS12 and Pfoetiman like this.
  19. Pfoetiman

    Pfoetiman

    Messages:
    67
    There are driver from every country who drive aggressive, dirty, unfair, and so on. The more you think someone from i.e. Germany (I am german) has ruined your race the more you be aware of a driver from that country. You prejudice him/her if you see the flag. But I recognised there are more fair drivers from each country than unfair. If it wasn’t so there where Nation Cups in the lower SR for some countries.
     
  20. vxr58

    vxr58

    Messages:
    135
    Take a hard left from Italy and keep going until you find people sleeping in the afternoon.
     
  21. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    4,617
    Location:
    Canada
    As War_Ops said, it's more based on experience. Altering my strategy based on the flag behind me helps me stay on the track more often than not. Lag and flag decide my racing line going into a corner with someone on my tail. Unless of course I know them or have raced them for a lap or more.
     
    Pfoetiman and phil_75 like this.
  22. dzumaalcapone

    dzumaalcapone

    Messages:
    317
    Germany. Easily. They don't care what they do on the track.
     
  23. Pfoetiman

    Pfoetiman

    Messages:
    67
    It must be the Dutch blood in my vain that tries to drive clean. Sure there are Germans who behave as an asshole. Like on German „Autobahn“ but I met more clean drivers from Germany than from Spain or Italy i.e.
    So everybody made other experience.
     
  24. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

    Messages:
    1,139
    Haha, i have had some of my best fights with German racers, best being clean and tight.
     
  25. Lord Grey

    Lord Grey Premium

    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    United States
    I am guilty of generalizing by the number of network bars someone is showing.
     
  26. racer_xis

    racer_xis

    Messages:
    344
    Make any generalization you want, discuss, and even say the name of the country, but just dont treat everybody from "that country" as if they were dirty... I have had many situations where any kind of contact becomes a shaming session (even when its not my fault at all), and sometimes I take hit on purpose, and when I ask what happened, people answer: "I hit you because a "*****lian" hit me before!"... not even caring about who hit him, only the flag... in other words, some people choose any "*****lian" to take his revenge due to others "******lian" acts!

    Forgot to mention, almost any crash I had in lobbies resulted in kick (no matter whose fault)... and the same way as the shaming, frequently I get kicked because of what happened with other guys with the same flag in the lobby! And sometimes Im kicked just as I enter the lobby, but this I cant say why, just wonder...
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  27. Jamie Bbbbb

    Jamie Bbbbb

    Messages:
    614
    I honestly believe that anyone who genuinely feels a prejudice towards drivers from a certain country is lying to themselves and is promoting harmful ideas...I want to say that you people are stupid but it is probably more a case of being emotionally affected by the game, or possibly having prejudice towards other nations regardless, which is another issue and I guess understandable. Even if a certain country's drivers could be proven to be, on average, particularly dirty, it is still dangerous to make discriminative generalisations as that country's clean drivers will suffer as a result, as you people who have these ideas will be inclined to treat them more harshly or be more likely to irrationally blame them for incidents, even if you don't realise it...

    I'm not saying that anyone here is necessarily in the category of being this way, as here you are just making an observation, but I really think it can only be harmful to the community to even discuss this topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  28. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    4,617
    Location:
    Canada
    I also have an irrational generalization against players whose psn names starts and ends with one of more x's. I guess I have a prejudice against the letter x! Experience != prejudice. How you act on that experience makes the difference.
     
    Sander 001 likes this.
  29. Sander 001

    Sander 001

    Messages:
    1,833
    In the early days of GT Sport, I found some Brazilians to be dirty. Recently it seems like Canadians are dirty and Brazilians are really clean!

    Sometimes I encounter drivers with Trump liveries and they always end up in a punting war with others!
     
  30. DUNKY DOPEUS

    DUNKY DOPEUS

    Messages:
    18
    do they wear onions around there necks with stripey shirts on
     
    2011Z likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.