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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by war_ops_84, Apr 6, 2018.
In other words, the only way you can make my position sound bad is by totally changing it.
Only if you believe there is an equivalence between racism and driving dirty on a video game.
Sometimes prejudice is rational. For example, parents tell their children to be wary of strangers despite the fact that most strangers pose no danger to their children.
Are you being serious? You are literally throwing around inflammatory accusations without concrete evidence to back them up.
I'm not being "that guy" because my views are based on repeated experiences instead of made up stories.
Dude... not even close. A kid can't understand things like you can, but if you want to run by the same standards they run, feel free to and be happy pooping in your pants.
But "stranger" doesn't single out any one group of people. It would not be rational to say "do no talk to people from ______ country"
Prejudice literally means "pre-judge" and to do so based on ones nationality is the erroneous part because it leads people to judge others based on their flag not their actual behavior. This is dangerous if you don't have supporting evidence.
Okay, I'll try to make this as simple as possible.
On a scale of one to ten, how evil do you think racism is?
Now, same question for driving dirty in a video game.
You changed my position on a fundamental level. Race and culture are not the same thing. I don't even believe in the concept of race.
I agree. Yet I'm not the only one who feels this way.
What are you going on about? I haven't mentioned racism. I'm talking about concrete evidence. You have none.
Race is a totally made up set of rules that discriminate against groups of people for hereditary reasons.
This is why I love GT Planet
I didn't mention race. I said color.
Whatever... I'm tired of these threads already. I'll just ignore them from now on.
I'm not going to ignore my repeated experiences just so I can be politically correct.
This is an internet forum, not a scientific journal. I'm just giving my opinion.
The notion was not "preconceived" at all. It was formed after months of repeated experiences. And I never said or implied that an "entire country" races in a more negative way. I said ON AVERAGE there are more dirty drivers from that country.
My only point was that sometimes prejudice can be rational because you seemed to imply that prejudice is categorically bad.
If you visited Saudi Arabia, would you go around telling strangers how much you object to that country's treatment of women? Or would you just assume that such opinions wouldn't be welcomed by most people?
You said my comment was ironic. It's only ironic if you think accusations of racism are somehow equivalent to accusations of driving dirty in a video game.
Put simply, accusing someone of racism is far more "inflammatory" than accusing someone of not playing a video game properly. How is that not obvious to you?
Race and color are basically the same thing. But either way, you had to change my position on a fundamental level in order to make it look bad. If you addressed my actual position, then it doesn't look so bad. I mean, are you denying that distinct cultures exist? Or that they tend to produce common patterns of behavior and thought? If I said Americans tend to value gun rights more than other cultures, would that be a problem? If I said Canadians tend to put the word "eh" at the end of sentences, would you be offended? As long as I acknowledge that such statements do not apply to ALL Americans/Canadians, then what's the problem my dude?
and everyone else's point is that in this case, it's irrational. I've been scumbagged by people of all ages and nationality, and I've had really, really good, clean, fair races with loads of people from the country's coming under fire in this ridiculous thread - so it's nonsense. It's confirmation bias in full effect.
Based on what? Where are your figures?
Oh right. So in that case, it doesn't seem rational to me.
well considering that would be obnoxious, probably not. But would I be afraid to express my opinion given the right context? No.
My guess is that most Saudis actually agree that their country treats women poorly (considering half of them are women themselves, and a large progressive faction of men also live there) but thats not the point!
The problem here is not that your being prejudicial, its that the conclusion you are drawing will lead to prejudicial decision making. This conclusion is supported by a subjective view point and has not been corroborated by objective fact. If it is supported as such, then prove it. Otherwise, you're just ranting about Brazillians and that doesnt come across as a genuine interest in cultural nuance.
It doesn't have to be preconceived as in, before you started playing GT Sport. It can be as simple as someone experiencing a couple bad drivers online from a country, then they talk to some others and they say, "yeah those drivers from X country seem dirty" and next thing you know there's this group bias against that country. When someone see another dirty driver from the same country, it just confirms their previous suspicion, while ignoring the drivers from other countries that are dirty. That's how I think a lot of this community bias started. People enable each others' negative attitudes and prejudices towards other groups and strengthen it.
Lock this thread, it's becoming too political. This is GT Planet not Political Planet.
Perhaps it is irrational. I'm open to the possibility that I may be wrong. But are you open to the possibility that I may be right?
I already said as much in my OP. I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself.
Maybe it is. Or maybe it's entirely justified by my repeated experiences. One thing I can say for sure is that I never came into GTS with any biases towards another country.
I don't have any. It's just my opinion based on my personal experiences.
That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.
But it's just a guess. And because you do not know the answer, you must make an assumption about what the average Saudi believes. You have no idea if they'll be offended or if they will agree, so you err on the side of caution based on your generalized understanding of their culture. That doesn't mean you don't allow for nuance or that you're being unfair. It just means you're making the best decision given your imperfect knowledge. That's fundamentally no different than what I'm doing. And if I were "ranting" about someone, you'd know it.
If the notion materialized AFTER my repeated experiences, then it cannot be preconceived by definition. It may be irrational or unfair, but it certainly wasn't preconceived.
Or you could just ignore the thread instead of trying to censor other posters.
@war_ops_84 It's ironic because you can't see the contradiction between these two statements.
Come on, man.
"I don't even believe in the concept of race."
"Race and color are basically the same thing."
A certain someone, who shall remain unnamed, doesn't know what to believe anymore. Not even colors.
If you cannot see the obvious difference between accusing someone of being racist and accusing someone of playing a video game the wrong way, then there is nothing I can say that will make you understand.
Right that what? Drivers from one country are statistically more likely to cause an incident than drivers from another? Perhaps, but without any data it's just your opinion, and I certainly haven't noticed any particular nation being worse than another, so, from here it looks pretty strange.
Well, the whole thread is about "Drivers from a certain country" - maybe that has something to do with it?
RE: this whole thread looking a little prejudiced - it's not really my opinion, you haven't said anything to suggest it's anything other than that.
As a concept, race is based almost exclusively on skin color, which is precisely why I reject the legitimacy of that concept. There is no contradiction there.
So my Race is Hispanic but my skin color is white. What are you trying to say?
Yes, it's just my opinion. Again, not sure why I have to keep repeating myself.
I clarified what I meant by that in the opening post. I specifically said that my generalization does not apply to everyone from that country. I also said that dirty drivers come from every country. It seems like the only way my critics can come at me is by ignoring what I actually said.
As I already said, sometimes prejudice can be rational. And my prejudice is based on my repeated experiences. You think I'm being irrational. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine.
I'm saying that I don't believe in the legitimacy of the concept of race. Genetically speaking, there are no "blacks" or "whites" or "Hispanics". There are only Homo Sapiens. That said, humans also have culture, which is distinct from the concept of race. A "white" man and a "black" man can belong to the same culture, for example.
Is it? No.
I don't care if your prejudice is rational or not. This whole "it's just my opinion, so you swallow it, because I said so"... feels wrong. If you understand it is prejudice, maybe you should be doing something about it, right?
Of course. Two of the main racial classes are literally colors (white and black).
Except I never said that.
If the prejudice is rational, why would I need to do something about it?