DTM and Super GT merge regulations from 2014?!.

[Kingofweasles]

To me, the adoption of the "Class-One" name is a carrot to the Super GT side of the equation, because I can see a "Class-Two" spring up to fill the possible need for a GT300-like class worldwide... Though any ideas for the cars being used in TUDOR are a bit far-fetched to me, much like the American series actually happening (Which REALLY could need a Home-Grown manufacturer to drum up support...Maybe GM with Cadillac?). All in all though, it's a good thing that manufacturers and racing series can come together like this and create a common set of rules and possibly a global market for a truly unique form of racing cars.

 

[Brutaka]

A "Class two" might be GT300 and GT3 based vehicles as the GT line is kinda being phased out, because why have a GT3 if GT2 and 1 no longer exists? (Yes that's a weird reason to redesign the class but it's still a reason )

Class one, to me, is a fantastic idea. I'm sure that this will also venture into V8 Supercars eventually.

 

[mustafur]

A "Class two" might be GT300 and GT3 based vehicles as the GT line is kinda being phased out, because why have a GT3 if GT2 and 1 no longer exists? (Yes that's a weird reason to redesign the class but it's still a reason )

Class one, to me, is a fantastic idea. I'm sure that this will also venture into V8 Supercars eventually.

100% won't be in V8 Supercars, thats if they still want it to be a touring car series.

 

[Brutaka]

100% won't be in V8 Supercars, thats if they still want it to be a touring car series.

Things change, but it won't happen anytime soon, maybe in the 20's

 

[catamount39]

Class One - GT500/DTM
Class Two - GT300/GT3/GTE
Class Three - BTCC/WTCC/V8 Supercar-ish*
Class Four - GT4/Track Cars*
* = Ideas I threw in

Can't argue with that for a new global racing order. It's like the good old days again when classes were called "Group's".

 

[mustafur]

Things change, but it won't happen anytime soon, maybe in the 20's

Class One is more of a GT replacement that may find Its way to replacing GTE or what not.

DTM(post 2000)and Super GT have been a pure GT style series since day 1, V8 Supercars is different type of cars altogther.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'd say Dome's Mother Chassis concept is the real GT3/GTE replacement. Class 1 is just DTM catching up to SuperGT.

 

[mustafur]

I'd say Dome's Mother Chassis concept is the real GT3/GTE replacement. Class 1 is just DTM catching up to SuperGT.

From whats been said on this it's not really anything to do with speed it's to simplify GT series around the world and allow for greater international competition using a same set of regulations which can increase exposure to all, by allowing Manufactuers to bring there brands to all corners of the globe in a seemleas regulation.

not to predict the future but this could be the start of a huge GT era similar to that of the Supertouring era in touring cars which can be more succeasful if costs are maintained.

its Highly Likely Brazilian stock car will follow these regulations soon, and With IMSA going ahead i can't See GTE not doing it, as it will allow the oppurtunity for Factory teams at an unseen level and unseen Driver quality from Series around the world going at it at Lemans.

Imagen it, the best teams from DTM, Super GT, IMSA(USA), Brazil Stock Car with Multiple Factory support Going to war on the Greatest Endurance race of them all.

 

[catamount39]

GT3 was the pioneering class for this and I think will play a huge part with Class-One moving forward because most every major manufacture has created a GT3 car because GT3 is a worldwide accepted thing (barring BoP). Manufactures who have GT3 cars currently, will be updating moving forward, or are joining:

Aston Martin
Audi
Mclaren
Chevrolet
Dodge
*To be announced*
BMW
Bentley
Nissan
Lexus
Mercedes
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Cadillac
Ginetta
Porsche

Class-One turns up the wick as it's a relatively "cheap" cost to build an extremely fast racer that also can run worldwide. GT3 is the perfect customer racer class, while Class-One is the perfect factory class because it automatically is BoP'd. I don't think Japan's homebuilt "tuner" cars will be a world wide thing moving forward. I think that SuperGT has those stay unique to them.

I think IMSA is a sign of things to come. GTD will be FIA GT3 cars by 2016, and because a stand alone US DTM isn't viable (to be brutally honest...we have a wash of GT like series already), it's almost a given that somehow Class-One will be tied in moving forward.

 

[mustafur]

GT3 was the pioneering class for this and I think will play a huge part with Class-One moving forward because most every major manufacture has created a GT3 car because GT3 is a worldwide accepted thing (barring BoP). Manufactures who have GT3 cars currently, will be updating moving forward, or are joining:

Aston Martin
Audi
Mclaren
Chevrolet
Dodge
*To be announced*
BMW
Bentley
Nissan
Lexus
Mercedes
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Cadillac
Ginetta
Porsche

Class-One turns up the wick as it's a relatively "cheap" cost to build an extremely fast racer that also can run worldwide. GT3 is the perfect customer racer class, while Class-One is the perfect factory class because it automatically is BoP'd. I don't think Japan's homebuilt "tuner" cars will be a world wide thing moving forward. I think that SuperGT has those stay unique to them.

I think IMSA is a sign of things to come. GTD will be FIA GT3 cars by 2016, and because a stand alone US DTM isn't viable (to be brutally honest...we have a wash of GT like series already), it's almost a given that somehow Class-One will be tied in moving forward.

Yeah basically, and because of that i can see GTE going towards Class one more then GT3(you would think they would of been GT3 already otherwise).
SuperGT will Always stay Japan focused Obviously however nothing would rule out Honda/Toyota/Nissa going to Lemans once a year for the Big race if GTE goes ahead with the regs.

It would Align WEC with Top Factory Teams Battling it out in both Prototype and GT Classes.

could very well never end up happening like this but it seems common sense for the greater good for all.

 

[catamount39]

Yeah basically, and because of that i can see GTE going towards Class one more then GT3(you would think they would of been GT3 already otherwise).
SuperGT will Always stay Japan focused Obviously however nothing would rule out Honda/Toyota/Nissa going to Lemans once a year for the Big race if GTE goes ahead with the regs.

It would Align WEC with Top Factory Teams Battling it out in both Prototype and GT Classes.

could very well never end up happening like this but it seems common sense for the greater good for all.

Exactly, if this happened racing worldwide would blossom even more than it currently is. GTE (aka GT2) is about the same pace as GT3 to be honest so why it is still around is a mystery too all of us lol. But the factory teams would love this because they don't have to have lots of world racing commitments in terms of series' or championships. Like GT3 they can be in the top level in their respective country or continent, then send the team off to the largest races globally/the WEC. To add to that, they can also sell cars to private teams or basically factory teams to spread their global presence if they want. Like GT3, Class-One is an amazing oppurtunity to give manufactures the freedom they want...and the racing we want. Now if we could have thundering V8's or screaming V12's alongside the 4T's....

Someone make a rendering of a Corvette and V12 Vantage GT500 car!

 

[mustafur]

It would be like the Short Lived World Touring Cup in the Early/mid 90s with the Super Touring Era.

only difference is the race would be much longer so you could enjoy it longer.

 

[catamount39]

And less mechanical failures.

 

[mustafur]

Im not 100% Sure but Class One might actually be too fast at present going by what Super GT is acheiving the cars are much faster then LMP2, and way faster then USC prototype Class.

 

[catamount39]

WEC GTE-Pro cars are almost as fast as TUSCC Prototypes. Hey maybe it replaces P class in TUSCC...IMSA do that.

DTM is going to be bonkers finally though.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Let's face it, despite the name it's a stretch to class the DTM as 'touing cars'.

They've been GTs for the last 12 years.

They've been silhouette prototypes for the last 12 years. They use a spec chassis and only the roof (and perhaps a few other trinkets) is shared with their road going counterparts. I imagine Class One will follow along those lines.

Any talk of LMP1-fast closed prototypes replacing GTE, or any GT class, is frankly absurd. Current GT500 cars with "only" ~550hp are as fast as privateer LMP1s, not hard to figure out the type of speed they'll have with 600hp.

I'd say Dome's Mother Chassis concept is the real GT3/GTE replacement. Class 1 is just DTM catching up to SuperGT.

JAF GT cars are a misnomer, like their big brothers, they have fast become prototypes with roofs. The mother chassis is taking that to the next stage and further away from the concept of GT cars. Thankfully, I don't see the mother chassis making it's way to Europe any time soon, and certainly not as a GT3 replacement.

 

[Liquid]

They've been silhouette prototypes for the last 12 years. They use a spec chassis and only the roof (and perhaps a few other trinkets) is shared with their road going counterparts. I imagine Class One will follow along those lines.

I'd forgotten all about this, actually. You're right, I said DTM was a GT series in the literal sense of high-performance race car with extra bits added on but it's more true that it's silhouette carbon fibre space frames with aesthetic resemblances to raod cars.

Encouraging to see uniform specs for DTM and Super GT, but when they say "run at Lausitz one week, Suzuka the next" will that be in a German championship one week and a Japanese one the next or are we looking towards a unified silhouette GT world championship? If it's the case of the former, [having the option to] flip flop between different countries' championships, that'd be expensive.

Wonder if we'll get any new manufacturers joining series, apart from Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz in Japan or Nissan, Toyota and Honda in Germany. Ford are apparently looking at motorsports again; possibly Le Mans but this could be an interesting series for a silhouette Mondeo (Ford Germany) or a silhouette Taurus (Ford USA).

 

[SagarisGTB]

Encouraging to see uniform specs for DTM and Super GT, but when they say "run at Lausitz one week, Suzuka the next" will that be in a German championship one week and a Japanese one the next or are we looking towards a unified silhouette GT world championship? If it's the case of the former, [having the option to] flip flop between different countries' championships, that'd be expensive.

The former I suspect, though in theory only, I doubt it'll be put into practice because, as you say, it'd be cost prohibitive. The unification will serve to share spec part development costs, allow teams/manufacturers to enter cars in both championships or "the other championship" without development costs (for example, Team Studie in Japan is backed by BMW and wants to enter GT500 with a BMW) and allow the easy creation of shared international exhibition races.

 

[trustjab]

Super GT has a spec chassis but its set to a certain spec, but not built by one supplier. Each manufacturer has their own construction. Theyre definitely different from DTM. What this class 1 is set to do is take a set of regulations to form another series outside dtm/super gt but not to replace either of them.

 

[mustafur]

Super GT has a spec chassis but its set to a certain spec, but not built by one supplier. Each manufacturer has their own construction. Theyre definitely different from DTM. What this class 1 is set to do is take a set of regulations to form another series outside dtm/super gt but not to replace either of them.

Both Series are using Class 1 already, only DTM are still using their old engines.

 

[trustjab]

No, not entirely. DTM has no refueling, drs and spec tires among other things besides engine Super GT doesn't.

 

[tankuroded]

@mustafur Why you think that Stock Car Brasil would go Class One route?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Super GT has a spec chassis but its set to a certain spec, but not built by one supplier. Each manufacturer has their own construction. Theyre definitely different from DTM. What this class 1 is set to do is take a set of regulations to form another series outside dtm/super gt but not to replace either of them.

That was the old Super GT. This year they are using the DTM chassis but it is made in Japan. They only differ in engine, tyres, fuel capacity and stupid wing rules.

 

[mustafur]

@mustafur Why you think that Stock Car Brasil would go Class One route?

Because They already use the same sort of Silhouette prototypes as DTM just they have had quite a few safety issues with it in the past.

 

[mustafur]

No, not entirely. DTM has no refueling, drs and spec tires among other things besides engine Super GT doesn't.

yeah but that has nothing to do with it not being Class one.

DTM is a Sprint Series and Super GT is an Endurance one.

 

[Kingofweasles]

That was the old Super GT. This year they are using the DTM chassis but it is made in Japan. They only differ in engine, tyres, fuel capacity and stupid wing rules.

Don't forget that Honda runs a Mid-Engined variant of the DTM-Spec chassis either... But otherwise yeah, they share the same specifications.

 

[TDZdave]

whilst I think this is a great move, doesn't evidence and history show that every time they try to pull this off that the FIA get involved, in which they almost are, try to make a world series out of it, run all teams out of money then abandon the idea and start from scratch? Group A and 70's Group C touring cars are fine examples,

I think the thing that sucks is they are dropping V8/ V6 power plants and going to the 4 cylinder turbo cars, the positives are that from then on that it opens up to other manufacturers, we will get to see Subaru go for overall victories in Super GT, and hopefully Volkwagen return to circuit racing,

side note, I'm not against a world championship but I'm not for it, I think if there is anything to learn from is the Blancpain GT series, whilst it is semi world wide. its not mandatory that teams who start the season compete through the championship,

Though a Super GT VS DTM 12 hours of Nurburgring would be something special, hopefully the U.S.A get on board properly with it and they join in,

 

[catamount39]

Though a Super GT VS DTM 12 hours of Nurburgring would be something special, hopefully the U.S.A get on board properly with it and they join in,

Here in the states I'd love a domestic DTM/SuperGT series. However it's hard to see where it fits in, we have so many series' already. Honestly I think that they might be placed in IMSA's TUSCC. I know people have pushed this idea aside, but I think it'll work. What IMSA might do is have Class-One and a faster "P" class compete against eachother like LMPGT and LMP900. That or they may be ousting GTLM/GTE and replacing it with Class-One. IMSA needs to attract other worldwide FIA car teams. They are already doing this in 2016 with full fledged FIA GT3 cars being what GTD uses. Then in 2017 P will be an LMP2 class...or the rumored customized LMP2 combo with slightly higher speeds IIRC. However GTLM is a great class and I don't think they'll replace it. But with the speed of Class-One makes me think:

P
SGT (Class-One)
GTLM
GTD

or

P
SGT (Class-One)
GTD

or

SGT (Class-One)
GTLM
GTD

It's hard to think otherwise where Class-One fits in here in the states.

 

[TDZdave]

is the Pirelli wc sanctioned by IMSA? With GTD becoming GT3 and GTLM modifications in future I think the class one series would benefit better taking on the lead role in Pirelli wc,

 

[Brutaka]

is the Pirelli wc sanctioned by IMSA? With GTD becoming GT3 and GTLM modifications in future I think the class one series would benefit better taking on the lead role in Pirelli wc,

PWC is the top class in the Sports Car Club of America, an entirely different sanctioning to my knowledge.