Earning the right to race

[BreakerOhio]

Decided to pull this thought out of a thread I put this in and get some feedback on this idea.

Earning your right to race...if there is an online career mode. You cannot compete in PRO online events until you have proved yourself. It can be an online single career mode or what ever...but after you have proved that you qualify in a PRO event, then you can unlock it. Have it linked to our PS3 User ID rather than our game save.

Just like quick tune option was not unlockable until you completed the missions.

My theory with this with the availablity of the game saves....many of the players have not gone through the trials and training that will get them ready for racing in GT. They just get a game save somewhere online and jump straight into it. Thus the maddness...
They drive ferraris, corvettes, high horse power cars they are unprepared for. They complain it's uncontrollable....yet they didn't start off with a fresh game to begin with a slower car to teach them car control...

Why do you think the F1 cost 2million dollars?
Because you have to earn it. The amount of seat time you put into earn those credits will prepare you for driving the F1. Part of the reason why I think it was so expensive. Goes back to the game save theory again. This ability to quickly find a save is like our fast food society. It's fast and quick, but the quality sucks because it's cheap.

The good racers online I'll bet most of them are vetrans and played through all the missions. The jokers and punters...I'll bet are those that just found a game save so they could jump online and race like idiots.

So if they make it just like how you have to complete the missions to earn the right to Quick Tune, make it the same for Online events. You have to complete some tests. No game saves can save you from this...it's tied to your PS3 ID.


Just a thought.


Moved to the top: Parties idea

Introduce the cocept of parties.

Once you select your party of friends, everyone is on standby until a match is found for all your party to participate together. Party group connects to a party id, and then that party id attempts the networking that goes on when you join an online event. It will allow others to join the same race, but ensure you and your party will race together.

Just as in real life, you agree to attend track days with friends, but you also go knowing that there will be others you will have to share that track with.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Of course. This would get rid of the noobs but not the hacks. The hacks will mind their P's and Q's until the PRO class and start screwing around knowing that theres nothing to prove anymore.

 

[Monkey House]

Just to play devil's advocate here:
I think that the problem with this theory is that people will say (with some justification) "It's a video game. I bought it. I want to play it. And I shouldn't be denied that right because some other players' opinions."

 

[OzOldTimer]

Just to play devil's advocate here:
I think that the problem with this theory is that people will say (with some justification) "It's a video game. I bought it. I want to play it. And I shouldn't be denied that right because some other players' opinions."

Or I could say: "It's a video game. I bought it. I want to play it properly. And I shouldn't be denied that right because of some other players' bad behaviour or poor skills."

BTW good idea BreakerOhio. I have been thinking along the same lines. Leave the Beginner and Intermediate events for all but the Expert events should at least simulate a proper race.

 

[kart racer]

Well they could make it a pay to play class. That way they could monitor your stats, revew replays and hand out pentalies as needed.

 

[Juice476]

Problems:

1. The career mode DOES NOT get you ready for racing against real people. The AI isnt good enough and the races are not long enough to teach you anything but ram and punt so you can come from last to first in 3 laps.

2. I use a game save and can drive fine.

3. What you need is private rooms, Why go through all the trouble of doing what you suggest when they could just give us the ability for private rooms?

4. Also I think what games like this are lacking is a good driving school, That will show you what to do on paper, Then take you out on the road and show you how to do it there. With the computer taking the controls from time to time and also when your driving having them tell you when to brake, shift, turn in angle ect.... Just so people get an idea.

Then its up to people to practice on an empty track and get car control down. Then go back to the school and the next step is racing, driving in traffic, passing ect.... Once again just to get an idea. Then go back on the track with AI and practice.

And then like everyone its trial by fire, pass or fail. You have to go up against real people some time. Just try to apply what they learnd in school. After that its just keep racing.

I would say make people have to pass the school before unlocking online but the fact is a dick is a dick is a dick, They can pass the school and still come on and be a dick. So honestly its just private rooms and longer races, thats the solution. I do however think a well done, well narated driving school would be of use.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

What you need is private rooms, Why go through all the trouble of doing what you suggest when they could just give us the ability for private rooms?

My thoughts exactly. Private rooms will weed out the punters/bad drivers.

 

[Earth]

Decided to pull this thought out of a thread I put this in and get some feedback on this idea.

Earning your right to race...if there is an online career mode. You cannot compete in PRO online events until you have proved yourself. It can be an online single career mode or what ever...but after you have proved that you qualify in a PRO event, then you can unlock it. Have it linked to our PS3 User ID rather than our game save.

So if they make it just like how you have to complete the missions to earn the right to Quick Tune, make it the same for Online events. You have to complete some tests. No game saves can save you from this...it's tied to your PS3 ID.

Just a thought.

This is a good idea, so here is my feedback

I think the only way to truly educate drivers new to online racing besides throwing them to the wolves is to have them sit through a tutorial, preferably voice narrarated.

Some Key Points that should be covered:

• The number one mistake most drivers new to online racing make is over driving their cars trying to catch up to the guy in front of them. They usually end up punting the driver ahead of them by braking too late, use another driver as a cushion, or miss a corner and go off track or hit a wall. Teach the rookies that the gap between you and the car ahead of you must be made up over time, and not in one corner.
• Only try to overtake the driver ahead of you when you are pulled out of the racing line and are close enough to where you can outbrake him and still make the corner without using the other driver as a cushion.
• The race IS NOT won in the first corner. Over aggression in the first corner is cause for many wrecks. Take your time at the start of races. Let everyone get in line after the first corner or two then start racing.
• Keep your head on a swivel. Be aware of what's happening around you. Watch the other cars in your mirrors and be sure to give plenty of room.
• When going into a braking zone give the driver ahead of you room. Most drivers you will race online have different braking points then your own. Always follow other drivers with caution.
• No dive bombing. Never ever.
• Give more then you take.
• Do not try and boss your way through the pack. If some cars are slower or erratic excersie patience.
• You have the right to be slow, you have the right to be fast, but you do not have the right to be a jerk.

I covered some points, but these are the bare bones basics. There is so much to learn about racing with other drivers that it can not all be put in writing. Alot of it has to be experienced. But new drivers must understand the basics before attempting to race online.

 

[TurkeyBurgers]

I don't know what you guys expect but did ANY of you play the single player game? I for one can vouch that it is just damn near IMPOSSIBLE to beat some of the licenses without making contact with other cars. The computer AI is going to react a lot differently to being nudged out of the way than a player in an online race. This is what a lot of people who play online think you are supposed to do! They completed the C,B,A and S class events this way, why should online be any different for them? IMO the license events need to be completely reworked from square one.

 

[BreakerOhio]

Like in all other GT series...License testing, but this time for and Online Licenses.

One could argue...you have that through the missions....but to really make sure that someone has passed them themselves and has earned it, have it be tied to their PS3 ID and not as a game save.

Certain missions unlocks different license for online. Beginner, Intermediate, and Pro level events.

 

[MGR]

Decided to pull this thought out of a thread I put this in and get some feedback on this idea.

Earning your right to race...if there is an online career mode. You cannot compete in PRO online events until you have proved yourself. It can be an online single career mode or what ever...but after you have proved that you qualify in a PRO event, then you can unlock it. Have it linked to our PS3 User ID rather than our game save.

Just like quick tune option was not unlockable until you completed the missions.

My theory with this with the availablity of the game saves....many of the players have not gone through the trials and training that will get them ready for racing in GT. They just get a game save somewhere online and jump straight into it. Thus the maddness...
They drive ferraris, corvettes, high horse power cars they are unprepared for. They complain it's uncontrollable....yet they didn't start off with a fresh game to begin with a slower car to teach them car control...

Why do you think the F1 cost 2million dollars?
Because you have to earn it. The amount of seat time you put into earn those credits will prepare you for driving the F1. Part of the reason why I think it was so expensive. Goes back to the game save theory again. This ability to quickly find a save is like our fast food society. It's fast and quick, but the quality sucks because it's cheap.

The good racers online I'll bet most of them are vetrans and played through all the missions. The jokers and punters...I'll bet are those that just found a game save so they could jump online and race like idiots.

So if they make it just like how you have to complete the missions to earn the right to Quick Tune, make it the same for Online events. You have to complete some tests. No game saves can save you from this...it's tied to your PS3 ID.


Just a thought.

I totally agree there should be some sort of ranking system in place tied to your PSN-ID. I actually quite like the way online works at the moment. Sure, private rooms are great but they're not necessarily so convenient. I like the way I can jump online any time of day and have a full field of cars to race against. But it would be nice if getting access to the 'Pro' events meant you first had to meet some other criteria in single player/career mode.

That way you would have the opportunity to race many more drivers of a similar calibre and not be limited to your PSN friends list. GT Planet is also a good community building tool, but there are just as many average skilled GT enthusiasts who frequent this forum as well as ludicrously fast ones.

For me the fun doesn't come from winning - it comes from close hard fought battles. Winning easily all the time is boring, but so is getting spanked every race. If there's a way to better match players of a similar skill level online then that has to be a good thing.

 

[MGR]

Or I could say: "It's a video game. I bought it. I want to play it properly. And I shouldn't be denied that right because of some other players' bad behaviour or poor skills."

Post of the week.

 

[junpeix555]

I think Earth pretty much nailed all the valid points. But the one problem I do see with his thoughts is:

"Keep your head on a swivel. Be aware of what's happening around you. Watch the other cars in your mirrors and be sure to give plenty of room."

This is very true but the problem is that most people do not have 3 TV screens for the side views, and I doubt most people look right and left when lining up for braking. So what they should do is have an option for extra long rearview mirrors. That way you will not have blind spots and can actually see what is going on around you . Just a thought.

 

[NLxAROSA]

This is a good idea, so here is my feedback

I think the only way to truly educate drivers new to online racing besides throwing them to the wolves is to have them sit through a tutorial, preferably voice narrarated.

Some Key Points that should be covered:

• The number one mistake most drivers new to online racing make is over driving their cars trying to catch up to the guy in front of them. They usually end up punting the driver ahead of them by braking too late, use another driver as a cushion, or miss a corner and go off track or hit a wall. Teach the rookies that the gap between you and the car ahead of you must be made up over time, and not in one corner.
• Only try to overtake the driver ahead of you when you are pulled out of the racing line and are close enough to where you can outbrake him and still make the corner without using the other driver as a cushion.
• The race IS NOT won in the first corner. Over aggression in the first corner is cause for many wrecks. Take your time at the start of races. Let everyone get in line after the first corner or two then start racing.
• Keep your head on a swivel. Be aware of what's happening around you. Watch the other cars in your mirrors and be sure to give plenty of room.
• When going into a braking zone give the driver ahead of you room. Most drivers you will race online have different braking points then your own. Always follow other drivers with caution.
• No dive bombing. Never ever.
• Give more then you take.
• Do not try and boss your way through the pack. If some cars are slower or erratic excersie patience.
• You have the right to be slow, you have the right to be fast, but you do not have the right to be a jerk.

I covered some points, but these are the bare bones basics. There is so much to learn about racing with other drivers that it can not all be put in writing. Alot of it has to be experienced. But new drivers must understand the basics before attempting to race online.

Teaching them is going to solve nothing, because 'unsportsmanlike' tactics actually pay off in this game. It's a game and some people will want to win regardless of how it's done. As stated above, a dick is a dick and teaching someone otherwise will not change it if game mechanics allow this to happen.

Correct me if I understood it wrong, but right now, you are saying that new player = bad driver/punter, which I find a rather arrogant statement. I seriously feel that the best way for a new player to learn is to get in and do it the hard way, not in some offline watered-down version.

If you're an experienced driver, you take stuff like punters and inexperienced drivers into account and deal with it as it happens. I can smell a punter or inexperienced driver from a mile away when racing online, which means I will keep my distance and prepare for some weird moves. And since they have no experience (and thus no tactical sense either) it's usually very easy to pass them.

The funny thing is you say 'give more than you take' while the solution you propose is to take away things from people. I certainly feel that is not the answer to the problem. If you actually give more than you take, punters and inexperienced drivers are not a problem, think about it. Not to say your points are not valid, because they are. 👍 But you're preaching for the wrong audience here I guess, we all agree to those rules over here.

The real solution: private rooms where you can set the rules you described above and only allow people in that play by them. 👍

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Teaching them is going to solve nothing, because 'unsportsmanlike' tactics actually pay off in this game. It's a game and some people will want to win regardless of how it's done. As stated above, a dick is a dick and teaching someone otherwise will not change it if game mechanics allow this to happen.

Correct me if I understood it wrong, but right now, you are saying that new player = bad driver/punter, which I find a rather arrogant statement. I seriously feel that the best way for a new player to learn is to get in and do it the hard way, not in some offline watered-down version.

If you're an experienced driver, you take stuff like punters and inexperienced drivers into account and deal with it as it happens. I can smell a punter or inexperienced driver from a mile away when racing online, which means I will keep my distance and prepare for some weird moves. And since they have no experience (and thus no tactical sense either) it's usually very easy to pass them.

The funny thing is you say 'give more than you take' while the solution you propose is to take away things from people. I certainly feel that is not the answer to the problem. If you actually give more than you take, punters and inexperienced drivers are not a problem, think about it. Not to say your points are not valid, because they are. 👍 But you're preaching for the wrong audience here I guess, we all agree to those rules over here.

The real solution: private rooms where you can set the rules you described above and only allow people in that play by them. 👍

Good points put accross there, but as you say - the real solution is private rooms. Everyone has a right to race online regardless of their skill level. If a person enters a room and behaves like an idiot and crashes people off the track, then the host can just ban that person from the room. after a while the punters and bad drivers get known to people, so as soon as they enter a room, they can be instantly banned from the room before they can cause any grief.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I don't know what you guys expect but did ANY of you play the single player game? I for one can vouch that it is just damn near IMPOSSIBLE to beat some of the licenses without making contact with other cars. The computer AI is going to react a lot differently to being nudged out of the way than a player in an online race. This is what a lot of people who play online think you are supposed to do! They completed the C,B,A and S class events this way, why should online be any different for them? IMO the license events need to be completely reworked from square one.

+1000 👍 👍 👍

It's a big flaw in GT5P, as it has been in all GT games. You learn to win by cheating. The only game where they got this right was GT4 ... Prologue! You had "overtaking licenses" (in Tsukuba, IIRC) where you would get a big "FAIL" if you merely touched (not even punted) the car you had to overtake.

That's a lesson. Nothing to do with those "one lap to pass 15 cars" we got in GT5P. It's punt-punt-punt to win. There's no other way to do it.

 

[amar212]

There's no other way to do it.

There is ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQWZaG6hlc

I have to admit, I made it on Std physics in the 2nd day of having a game, but today I can do it without the slightest touching of the Viper, especially after the update I guess.

Now for serious, above was a somewhat a joke.

Touching/punting in the single-player or MP is all up to you.

I agree about GT4 having those passing-licences done in a more serious way. Those were the classics of the series and I really wish for such things to make a comeback.

Also I agree that some people will do anything to win, and you can witness that every day in online. Anything is an option, and this game became a true Machiavelian "The Ends Justify the Meanness" thing.

Only Private Rooms will solve it, since ther will always be somebody that just can't take he's slower than you.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

There is ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQWZaG6hlc

I have to admit, I made it on Std physics in the 2nd day of having a game, but today I can do it without the slightest touching of the Viper, especially after the update I guess.

Touching/punting in the single-player or MP is all up to you.

Although, I agree about GT4 having those passing-licences done in a more serious way. Those were the classics of the series and I really wish for such things to make a comeback.

Does anyone remember the manual that came with GT1?

I learned more about driving, in a weekend reading that than I did in over 20 years on actual roads!

 

[Sjaak]

I don't know what you guys expect but did ANY of you play the single player game? I for one can vouch that it is just damn near IMPOSSIBLE to beat some of the licenses without making contact with other cars. The computer AI is going to react a lot differently to being nudged out of the way than a player in an online race. This is what a lot of people who play online think you are supposed to do! They completed the C,B,A and S class events this way, why should online be any different for them? IMO the license events need to be completely reworked from square one.

To bad true

The licenses I had to do in the Japanese version before the Spec II update were completly different.
You couldn't touch an AI car or you get a penalty.
Very frustrated at that time but a good learning curve for Online racing.

After the update,all you have to do was to shuffle the cars of the track and the mission was completed.

Here PD went wrong and broke something that was ok.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

In my opinion, people that drive in real life, are naturally better at driving sims.

 

[MeWhiteNoise]

Funny, you say that, my brother drives a 480bhp Toyota Chaser, an ex KHS demo car and he's pretty handy with it. Stick a wheel or d-pad in his hands and it could be Daniel Day-Lewis playing his role from 'My Left Foot'. It aint pretty

 

[amar212]

The licenses I had to do in the Japanese version before the Spec II update were completly different.
You couldn't touch an AI car or you get a penalty.
Very frustrated at that time but a good learning curve for Online racing.

Signed.

 

[homeforsummer]

In my opinion, people that drive in real life, are naturally better at driving sims.

Agree. And conversely, if you're very good at driving sims it can help with your understanding of driving a real car quickly. I'm certain that it helped me first time I drove a car on a track.

 

[Blitz187]

In my opinion, people that drive in real life, are naturally better at driving sims.

Hmmmm... I do not agree with that opinion... I have a license but no car... ( live in amsterdam... car is only a nightmare here hehehe ) and I dont drive everyday, just basically got my license and never got a car... But anyway, I'm going to use this as an example... I went karting last week again with some friends... and when it comes down to racing Im very competitive... My friend tells me, "Im gonna whip you cuz I drive a car everyday...." On which I retorted, "Racing and everyday driving are two different things and you need different skills for racing... " He didnt believe me, til we got out on the track and I ended up romping him by 6+ sec in our fastest laps. So I dont think your skill level in a sim and your real-life driving skill have anything to do with each other.... Im pretty good at driving in the sim without having driven a car all the time... I got my license here when I was 23 by the way... So I played the other GTs without real driving experience....

 

[BreakerOhio]

Agree. And conversely, if you're very good at driving sims it can help with your understanding of driving a real car quickly. I'm certain that it helped me first time I drove a car on a track.

Agree.

Naturally if you are very good at driving sims you are good because you have the hand and eye coordination to be good. You can translate the feedback and the fundamentals you've learn over into your driving awareness. Transfer those same skills you have from sims into real life. Obviously, you will think more about the risk of crashing your car in real life but driving sims help to build reflexes that you will use in real life. The same ability you use to train and learn in sims, you will naturally apply it the same way in real life and you will adapt to real life driving / racing similarly.

I believe it, I practice it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcj5Qbi4egw

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

To bad true

The licenses I had to do in the Japanese version before the Spec II update were completly different.
You couldn't touch an AI car or you get a penalty.
Very frustrated at that time but a good learning curve for Online racing.

After the update,all you have to do was to shuffle the cars of the track and the mission was completed.

Here PD went wrong and broke something that was ok.

True, the Spec I licenses where pure fun and also had a nice learning curve 👍

@Breaker Ohio
Good idea..., but wouldn`t you think it would be better (not only easier to implement, but truly better ) to just get rid of this ridicoulous rubberbanding for certain events?
The less skilled drivers would surely soon find out its no fun driving miles behind all the time.💡
👍

 

[GT_Fanatic]

I went karting last week again with some friends... and when it comes down to racing Im very competitive

So you do drive. if your karting and consider yourself as very competitive, then you have experience of driving competitively while karting, which in turn, would heighten your skill level at racing sims.

 

[BreakerOhio]

True, the Spec I licenses where pure fun and also had a nice learning curve 👍

@Breaker Ohio
Good idea..., but wouldn`t you think it would be better (not only easier to implement, but truly better ) to just get rid of this ridicoulous rubberbanding for certain events?
The less skilled drivers would surely soon find out its no fun driving miles behind all the time.💡
👍

I think the rubberbanding in Pro events at least have less effect from SPEC I release. It seems that they turned it down, and in some races it's not there at all. The way they have implemented it before kind of allow you to get back into the race if someone punted you, but if you are are battling it out at the front with other fast drivers I've seen that the rubberband effect doesn't play much. I can see that through the lap times.

The upside to the rubberbanding is that it's nice to keep you on your toes and keeps your driving attention tuned in the whole time. That also makes the racing fun. No one is keeping stats or records so the effect of the rubberband is not really a bother, if anything it keeps you driving hard and keeps the racing spirit there. If I want to compare and find out how fast I am, I can do Time Trials, so the rubberband / boost that happens when I get online to race I think of it as a mechanism to make racing fun. It's like if you play one of your friends and they are new to the game, you wouldn't enjoy the race because you'd out distance so much. Same thought goes into why its there. Until there are private rooms, I would imagine they will give us the option to disable it.

I still think the earn the right to play is needed. The missions are there for you to test and get ready. Maybe they can come up with new missions specifically for online kind of situations and have it educate you about the tatics that are used and what to watch out for.

Difficult games these days are coming out with tutorials like this. I'm a fan of Madden Football and in this new Madden 09, they implement new features that let you replay your mistakes. Analyze what you could have done and they have new Madden IQ test that will find out what level of play is best suited for you.

If there could be some kind of test that you have to pass that will rank your PS3-ID account that allows you to play in a PRO Event, then it would help to keep those not ready to play in them out.

It's not that this suggestion is unreasonable. In real life you take tests to qualify for college and for jobs. For you to get your addmission, you have to earn it and prove yourself. Downloading a game save just to unlock all cars is like cheating on an exam and getting hired to do a Professional job. On that note, the online Pro events is the concern. We want quality in these events, not idiots.

 

[vang2k]

We want quality in these events, not idiots.

I feel you! Whenever I drive online I rarely punt players or try to be too aggressive. I always stick to my line and slow down for other players. Playing online races are fun sometimes but most of the time it just becomes a bunch of flying cars.

It would be awesome in a future update to have a GTP only room where you must register your ID to be able to get in. So than every race should be a fun one.

I have yet to race you online BreakerOhio, but I am sure you will whoop my butt.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I think the rubberbanding in Pro events at least have less effect from SPEC I release. It seems that they turned it down, and in some races it's not there at all. The way they have implemented it before kind of allow you to get back into the race if someone punted you, but if you are are battling it out at the front with other fast drivers I've seen that the rubberband effect doesn't play much. I can see that through the lap times.

The upside to the rubberbanding is that it's nice to keep you on your toes and keeps your driving attention tuned in the whole time. That also makes the racing fun. No one is keeping stats or records so the effect of the rubberband is not really a bother, if anything it keeps you driving hard and keeps the racing spirit there. If I want to compare and find out how fast I am, I can do Time Trials, so the rubberband / boost that happens when I get online to race I think of it as a mechanism to make racing fun. It's like if you play one of your friends and they are new to the game, you wouldn't enjoy the race because you'd out distance so much. Same thought goes into why its there. Until there are private rooms, I would imagine they will give us the option to disable it.

I still think the earn the right to play is needed. The missions are there for you to test and get ready. Maybe they can come up with new missions specifically for online kind of situations and have it educate you about the tatics that are used and what to watch out for.

Difficult games these days are coming out with tutorials like this. I'm a fan of Madden Football and in this new Madden 09, they implement new features that let you replay your mistakes. Analyze what you could have done and they have new Madden IQ test that will find out what level of play is best suited for you.

If there could be some kind of test that you have to pass that will rank your PS3-ID account that allows you to play in a PRO Event, then it would help to keep those not ready to play in them out.

It's not that this suggestion is unreasonable. In real life you take tests to qualify for college and for jobs. For you to get your addmission, you have to earn it and prove yourself. Downloading a game save just to unlock all cars is like cheating on an exam and getting hired to do a Professional job. On that note, the online Pro events is the concern. We want quality in these events, not idiots.

I didnt mean your suggestion is unreasonable, just hard if not impossible to implement, since GT is no PC Sim only played by a few hardcores. (no pun intended )

Generally I have to say I just hate rubberbanding, it destroys the whole idea of racing other people somehow.

As for the current rubberband, i think we play two different games , actually it never has been as strong before. Winning was much easier before the update, because I could leave most people in the dust. LOL now just everyone seems to catch up on me no matter how much faster i was before I overtook them??!
Just a little example:
Fuji 750pp:
Freerun: 1:39xxx
Online: 1.35xxx (last postition, about 30 secs. behind the leader)

Dunno how you came to the conclusion, there`s less rubberband/boost

edit* looks more like a boost to me... 💡