Earning the right to race

[GT_Fanatic]

That's why we have the 'players met' list. What I would really like to see is complete integration of that list into GT5 and other games. So if I want to invite someone in a room I just created, I can pick from either my friends list or I can pick someone from the 'players met' list.

well I'm your man, at least i'd smile and wave at you as i'm blowing past you at 190 mph lol.

 

[esh]

I think it's more PD's fault for having ridiculous pp races ONLY, 600+. Lower tier races on technical courses without super long straights into hard braking would help.

It's not just the newbs that make it a headache at times. I was racing with my friend last night and there were numerous times on Fuji with clean races for 2 and 3/4 laps until someone decides it's ok to punt you out in the chicane or the last corners, like that's good racing.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

I think it's more PD's fault for having ridiculous pp races ONLY, 600+. Lower tier races on technical courses without super long straights into hard braking would help.

It's not just the newbs that make it a headache at times. I was racing with my friend last night and there were numerous times on Fuji with clean races for 2 and 3/4 laps until someone decides it's ok to punt you out in the chicane or the last corners, like that's good racing.

It hapens everywhere though. It's like driving in real life, you never know which turning a loon is going to come out of next

 

[mustang245]

Breaker, I feel your pain. I've proposed eliminating 'saved game downloads' to no avail. That's where the trouble lies. Oh, the irony... made available on a site that espouses fair play and ettiquette. See you on TT boards... peace.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Breaker, I feel your pain. I've proposed eliminating 'saved game downloads' to no avail. That's where the trouble lies.

Have you even read this topic? Obviously not, because save game downloads are not the problem, the game mechanics and the absence of private rooms are.

 

[Hun200kmh]

About private rooms being some sort of elitism, as someone said, I can only tell that my excellent online experience with TRD3 (where you basically only have private rooms) demonstrates the opposite.

I arrived very late (fall 2007) to the world of TRD3 online, when all kids were gone and only pro TRD3 players were racing there. I don't belong to any other racing community than GTP, and I didn't meet any GTPer there. So I was a total stranger and, compared to those guys, a very slow newbie.

Voice chat definitely helps to get some integration, and I discovered that I had just entered a very friendly (with exceptions, as always) community of players from across the globe. I was helped by many who gave me their tunings to try, and I had, for nearly one year, what still remains as my best online experience.

In the end, it was I that usually opened up a room, usually crowded, having the "host" powers to set things up and also to ban any cheater (they were rare, but they existed) that might appear.

On this issue, I do prefer to grant full power to the host (like in TRD3) than a voting system (like it seems CodeM implemented in GRID). I've got nothing against democracy, but in racing rooms I prefer to trust the host. If I don't, I won't get in his room. It's simple.

 

[amar212]

With logic behind GT5: Prologue, Public Rooms will always be saturated.

Why?

Because the Credits are earned with racing in Public Rooms. I expect that Private Rooms will be without option to earn money, and I would prefere that logic if I was developer. It is the way to keep the Public Rooms crowded, with equlibrated co-existance of Private Rooms.

Simple and clean.

 

[RedOak]

With logic behind GT5: Prologue, Public Rooms will always be saturated.

Why?

Because the Credits are earned with racing in Public Rooms. I expect that Private Rooms will be without option to earn money, and I would prefere that logic if I was developer. It is the way to keep the Public Rooms crowded, with equlibrated co-existance of Private Rooms.

Simple and clean.

In Forza, every race earns you credits... but it depends on a whole lot of variables... Damage, realism level, number of players, number of laps total, race track, physics level... very clever.

 

[BreakerOhio]

The thought that if someone bought this game they should be allowed to play all it's features sounds fair and all, but it's not like they are being prevented from it.

When you first begin playing almost all games, there are features of the game that are locked until you've accomplished some task or met the right criterias to be awarded those rights.

Special unlocked cars, new levels, new power ups, new costumes, etc....Most all games do this method. Otherwise the gamers jump straight into the game and lose out on the total value from not going through the stages. .....it may or may not relate to the feelings people have here, but I think if you don't earn your cars , game credits and complete the missions yourself, you lose that experience that could help make you a better driver. This thought rolls into drivers education and the thought of licenses or some sort of accomplishment that needs to be earned before you are allowed to play in online PRO Events.

The issue is how easy it is to allow someone to use a gamesave. Gamesaves are nice to have, no doubt...saves you the efforts. But in the online aspects of it there ought to be a system where they need to work to earn the points / accomplishments etc... to tie it with their PS3-ID so that no gamesave can help you unlock a stage you're not ready for. If someone wants to hack it and they are that serious about it, so let them, but by having them have to work and earn credits, XP points from online play or something would be another solution to keeping the quality of racers in PRO events up.


The subject of private rooms sounds great, but I think it's not the best solution. Sometimes in racing, at least for me, I just want to jump into a race and race. I want the grid to include racers I haven't seen before. I want to race the world. I want to race the best out there. I don't want to be limited to just the group of friends or private rooms that I have access too. If they implement the sugggestion of earning the right to unlock certain online events through some kind of XP point to your PS3-ID it would still keep that event available to everyone and public racing with quality racers from around the world is fun. Not saying I would not appreciate the idea of private rooms, but I think biggest reason why it's not here yet is to keep racing available to everyone...for now.

On the subject of online credits. Maybe implement an entry fee to race in Online Events. Depending on how you finished you either make a profit, break even, or lose money. The amount and such would be based on the type of level....Beginner, Intermediate, or Profession. Higher fees, and higher payouts in Professional of course, but bigger risk of not profitting due to better competition. This may or may not discourage NOOBs from playing. They may see it as a no gain to join a PRO Event if they have no intentions of racing.
Although the problem I do forsee is...a win at all cost effect too... but I throw this idea out there anyways. Maybe we can work on this thought too.

 

[unimental]

Sometimes in racing, at least for me, I just want to jump into a race and race. I want the grid to include racers I haven't seen before. I want to race the world. I want to race the best out there. I don't want to be limited to just the group of friends or private rooms that I have access too. If they implement the sugggestion of earning the right to unlock certain online events through some kind of XP point to your PS3-ID it would still keep that event available to everyone and public racing with quality racers from around the world is fun. Not saying I would not appreciate the idea of private rooms, but I think biggest reason why it's not here yet is to keep racing available to everyone...for now.

Though I agree tying some aspect of in-game accomplishment to events available online would slightly increase the overall quality of online racing, nothing is going to keep public server racing clean without some sort of consequence for aggressive/unsportsmanlike actions. Building a system to handle that sort of oversight is simply not in the cards. Besides, they're too busy worried about GT:TV and how to handle bandwidth concerns.

This is an age-old issue in public console and PC racing of all types, and the answer has always been to build/join a community of racers you know/trust.

Out of curiousity, what other racing sims have you participated in online?

 

[BreakerOhio]

Though I agree tying some aspect of in-game accomplishment to events available online would slightly increase the overall quality of online racing, nothing is going to keep public server racing clean without some sort of consequence for aggressive/unsportsmanlike actions. Building a system to handle that sort of oversight is simply not in the cards. Besides, they're too busy worried about GT:TV and how to handle bandwidth concerns.

This is an age-old issue in public console and PC racing of all types, and the answer has always been to build/join a community of racers you know/trust.

Out of curiousity, what other racing sims have you participated in online?

I'm not a regular of them, but I've played GTR2 and LFS online recreationally (not through any public communities or that sort). I am sure PD is aware of the public racing community / private rooms concept, but they have designed their online networking mode to be public and available for all so that no casual racer could be left out just because he / she doesn't spend time building / joining a community of racers.

The way the networking works encourges us to form our own community so that we time the connection right and hope that we are on the same grid. Frustrating when it's not working, but still it's something like a surprise and you don't know who else may be on the grid when you and your buddies join in. I like racing in full grids with some friends from my team "Drift Dojo" and it's a good surprise to have other drivers appear in the races that you have no idea of their skill. Happened last weekend when I was having a racing session with another team member from Drift Dojo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB1DxK4z6iQ If I were limited to just racing with my friends, then I would lose out on fun like this.

Maybe have a friends garuntee join option. You select a group of friends that you agree race with to ensure you will be on the grid with you when you connect within a few seconds from each other. You can also include a list of people you don't want in your race. This would be a short remedy to private rooms.

 

[Blitz187]

Hmmmm If not private rooms... maybe the option to be able to create parties... and join a race.... like in CoD 4 or Battlefield. Then you can atleast take over a race and be sure that there is as little punters as possible present in the race Its just an idea... theres probably reasons as to why they didnt do this either...

 

[unimental]

I'm not a regular of them, but I've played GTR2 and LFS online recreationally (not through any public communities or that sort). I am sure PD is aware of the public racing community / private rooms concept, but they have designed their online networking mode to be public and available for all so that no casual racer could be left out just because he / she doesn't spend time building / joining a community of racers.

I really don't think we can expect the final GT5 online package to be anything like what they've put in place for Prologue. I consider the current setup to be a beta of sorts, and imagine we'll end up with a mix of weekly pre-built open events (like what we see now) and a lobby system along the lines of Forza 2 where the event is built by the host, and can then be open to the public and friend invites. Private rooms would still be an absolute necessity, however, for league-style racing and regular casual groups who want to get together and limit participation to invite-only.

That's my hope, at least.

 

[BreakerOhio]

Hmmmm If not private rooms... maybe the option to be able to create parties... and join a race.... like in CoD 4 or Battlefield. Then you can atleast take over a race and be sure that there is as little punters as possible present in the race Its just an idea... theres probably reasons as to why they didnt do this either...

Parties sound like a good idea. I'm thinking the term parties is selecting a group of friends that will join you in your online race that would include other racers too, but this would garuntee that your party is together. Is that what parties are in CoD 4?

Once you select your party, everyone is on standby until a match is found for all your party to participate together. Every connects to a party id, and then that party id attempts the networking that goes on when you join an online event. It will allow others to join the same race, but ensure you and your party will race together.

Just as in real life, you agree to attend track days with friends, but you also go knowing that there will be others you will have to share that track with.

 

[Blitz187]

Parties sound like a good idea. I'm thinking the term parties is selecting a group of friends that will join you in your online race that would include other racers too, but this would garuntee that your party is together. Is that what parties are in CoD 4?

Once you select your party, everyone is on standby until a match is found for all your party to participate together. Every connects to a party id, and then that party id attempts the networking that goes on when you join an online event. It will allow others to join the same race, but ensure you and your party will race together.

Just as in real life, you agree to attend track days with friends, but you also go knowing that there will be others you will have to share that track with.

You hit the nail on the head... I think its a great system... then you and your buddies are ATLEAST together... and lets say they limit it to 8 player parties... then you can never really take over a WHOLE race... so the other 4 people that fill the gap will either be good racers or punters... but atleast it wont be like 3 good racers and the rest punters...

 

[BreakerOhio]

You hit the nail on the head... I think its a great system... then you and your buddies are ATLEAST together... and lets say they limit it to 8 player parties... then you can never really take over a WHOLE race... so the other 4 people that fill the gap will either be good racers or punters... but atleast it wont be like 3 good racers and the rest punters...

Hopefully they can do something like this.

 

[Razorback718]

Just to play devil's advocate here:
I think that the problem with this theory is that people will say (with some justification) "It's a video game. I bought it. I want to play it. And I shouldn't be denied that right because some other players' opinions."

Read the EULA... you have no rights.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Read the EULA... you have no rights.

Fortunately, EULA's have lo legal value here in The Netherlands. In The Netherlands a EULA is only valid if it is shown before buying the product, so a consumer can decide not to buy the product if he doesn't like what's in there. Anything shown after buying the product has no meaning whatsoever.

 

[unimental]

You hit the nail on the head... I think its a great system... then you and your buddies are ATLEAST together... and lets say they limit it to 8 player parties... then you can never really take over a WHOLE race... so the other 4 people that fill the gap will either be good racers or punters... but atleast it wont be like 3 good racers and the rest punters...

Which is fairly close to how Forza 2 works. Create a room, set the options (track, laps, damage, etc.), invite your friends, then leave the other slots open for anyone else to fill. Someone isn't racing fairly or is acting like a jackbag? Boot 'em, then start another race.

There's improvements that can be made, but there's absolutely no reason that PD needs to re-invent the wheel with online racing.

 

[Dobo]

This idea could be used if PD brought in trophies support for online racing.

Every so many trophies you achieve you move up a category with other like-minded racers with similar skills...